Boxing: July 8 - 12

[H2O Man]

TUESDAY - at Las Vegas - 10 rounds, lightweights:
10 rounds, super featherweights: Kevin Kelley
(59-8-2, 39 KOs) vs. Abdul Malik Jabir
(11-6, 9 KOs); 8 rounds, super middleweights:
Aaron Pryor Jr. (10-0, 7 KOs) vs. Arturo Ortega
(12-7-3, 7 KOs).

WEDNESDAY - at Houston (ESPN2) - 10 rounds,
light heavyweights: Chris Henry (24-1, 17 KOs) vs.
Ruben Williams (29-4-1, 16 KOs).

FRIDAY - at Chicago (ESPN2) - 10 rounds,
cruiserweights: Tomasz Adamek (34-1, 23 KOs) vs.
Gary Gomez (18-9-1, 7 KOs).

FRIDAY - at Albuquerque, New Mexico (TeleFutura) -
10 rounds, welterweights: Ray Sanchez
(21-2, 15 KOs) vs. Joaquin Zamora (15-2-1, 10 KOs);
10 rounds, welterweights: Jesus Soto Karass
(20-3-3, 14 KOs) vs. David Estrada (22-4, 13 KOs).

FRIDAY - at Montreal - 12 rounds,
WBA light middleweight title: Joachim Alcine
(30-0, 119 KOs) vs. Daniel Santos (31-3-1, 22 KOs);
12 rounds, middleweights: Sebastien Demers
(25-1, 9 KOs) vs. TBA.

SATURDAY - at Hamburg, Germany (HBO) - 12 rounds,
IBF heavyweight title: Wladimir Klitschko
(50-3, 44 KOs) vs. Tony Thompson (31-1, 19 KOs).


This will be an interesting week for boxing fans. Of course, we are all looking forward to the big fight at the end of the month, between Cotto and Margarito. But there are plenty of quality fights between now and then, and there may even be a few surprises in the sport. Let's take a look.

I listed the Tuesday fight card, though it isn't being shown on tv, for two reasons: first, it features Aaron Pryor, Jr., who seems dedicated to the sport (though lacking the natural talent of his father); and second, it lists Kevin Kelley in the main event. And yes, it is the Kevin Kelly who turned pro in 1988, and who was once an outstanding talent. Though the schedule lists one opponent, it has been reported that the promoter had another fighter waiting in the wings, because the state boxing commission had concerns. Why the heck do they let this guy fight? Kevin is actually a good boxing announcer, and it would be best if he were allowed to make a living at ringside.

ESPN continues to provide the types of fights that boxing fans like to see. WNF = light heavyweights, and FNF = cruiserweights. Good fighters, and both nights should make for good fights.

On Friday night in Montreal, WBA Jr Middleweight champion Joachim Alcine has a tough fight. His "cut man" used to work with Dave Zyglewicz. Good guys, both. I haven't seen Dave in many years, but he was hilarious. He used to make jokes about losing a disputed home-town decision to Joe Frazier.

Remember that the Saturday fight on HBO airs in the afternoon in the USA. I think it plays at 4 pm est, but will check to be sure. It airs again, I think at 10 pm est. Klitschko has to be favored, but it is a potentially tough fight for him. Tony Thompson has all the physical tools, and the boxing ability, to upset Klitschko. It will all come down to how prepared each is mentally.

Wladimir still has self-doubts when it comes to a tough fight. Manny S has made real progress with him, but it's still Klitschko doing the fighting in the ring. Styles make fights, and Klitschko does best against significantly smaller opponents. This time, he faces someone about his own size. A good measure for this fight, in my opinion, was WK's October '04 fight with DaVarryl Williamson. Klitschko started strong against a guy who too often fights like a sparring partner. Soon, though, Williamson realized he could beat WK. Even KO him. Jay Nady did his best to protect the favored fighter, and it went to the scorecards, with WK winning a technical decision after 5 rounds.

In sad news, one of boxing's under-appreciated great fighters, Mando Ramos, died yesterday at the age of 59. He won the lightweight title at age 20, with a TKO over Carlos Teo Cruz (who died with his wife and children in a tragic plane crash, and is also under-rated). He fought the best fighters of his day, and was known as one of the best "LA fighters." Six years later, he was homeless. But he pulled his life together. I think he had been sober since 1983.

Unfortunately, Mando loved to party, and so he never really fulfilled his potential. I see that some folks on the West Coast are saying he was the Oscar de la Hoya of his time, which in a lot of ways is true. But the "fast life" took a toll on him. He had serious heart problems by the time he was 30.

In recent years, he was among a growing number of retired fighters who invested his time and energy into helping young fighters outside of the ring. He tried to educate young fighters on the dangers of substance abuse.

He was a heck of a fighter. I've read a couple things that say he was fast with his hands and on his feet. I don't recall him being particularly fast on his feet -- Ismael Laguna was able to beat him by being so much faster -- but in his prime, Mando could deliver powerful punches really, really well.

RIP, Mando Ramos.

[aint_no_life_nowhere]

1. Mando Ramos

Boy, that name takes me back to the time when I watched boxing on a local station (Channel 11?) in Los Angeles where they had their fight of the week back in the late 60s-early 70s from the Olympic Auditorium. Jimmy Lennon senior would have been the fight announcer with his tuxedo and that high tenor voice (just like his son Jimmy Lennon Jr. has). Mando Ramos was almost a household name in Los Angeles back in that period. He had a Hollywood following. I remember seeing Frank Sinatra, Joey Bishop, Peter Falk and the like on camera in the audience at his fights. I remember Joey Bishop going on and on about "Mando" in an interview on TV at ringside before a fight. I remember Mando Ramos as being a fighter who could box and also rumble. He wasn't the the greatest technically skilled fighter out there but he always gave an exciting performance. He fought a real hard fight against Chango Carmona and I believe was knocked out so hard that he had to be carried away from the ring.

I'm sorry to see guys who gave so much of themselves in the ring for the enjoyment of their fans come to such an early end to their lives. May he RIP at that big ring in the sky.

[H2O Man]

2. By the time he

fought Carmona (Sept '72), although he was the WBC lightweight champion, his career was on the downside. Sad to think of what he could have been, had he been more disciplined.

He was one of LA's outstanding amateur stars. I believe that his first 13 fights were at the Olympic Auditorium, including his being in the "main event" by the time he was in his 8th fight.

The names of the guys he fought might not mean much to younger fans today, but at the time, they were some of the toughest men in the lower weight classes. Hiroshi Kobayashi, Raul Rojas, Sugar Ramos, Yoshiaki Numata, Teo Cruz, and Ismael Laguna were all outstanding fighters.

Laguna, from Panama, was so fast and talented that he could deliver punches while on the tips of his toes. Ray Robinson and Ali were the only other guys that I can think of who could do that. His speed allowed him to outbox Mando, without getting hit by the champion. Mando had a lot of power for that division, but Laguna cut him up, and Ramos's corner stopped the fight.

Mando split two really tough fights with Teo Cruz. Though he lost a lot of his early matches, Cruz had become one of the very best in his division. He beat the great Carlos Ortiz. After losing to Ramos in their second fight, he was on a 4-fight winning streak, looking for another chance at the title. I remember when he died; his young wife and their little son and daughter died in the plane crash.

Had Ramos been disciplined, and had Cruz lived, it would have presented some serious challenges for Roberto Duran. The title had changed hands frequently in the 4 years before Duran: Ortiz, Cruz, Ramos, Laguna, and then Kenny Buchanan. The first four were pretty much gone from the scene when Roberto won the title. Great fighters, all.

[aint_no_life_nowhere]

3. Mando Ramos was just a kid

He had his first pro fight at the Olympic Auditorium just three days after he turned seventeen years of age. He was still a teenager when he won his 20th pro fight. I know that's not a complete excuse for being more interested in attending parties than training, but it might have contributed to his problem. You don't see too many fighters turning pro that young anymore, except maybe for Antonio Margarito who was fighting as a pro as of 15 years of age. Mando Ramos was very photogenic and made a ton of money as a very young man. I think he was one of the most highly paid sports figures in America at one time. There were also rumors about alcohol and even heroin use. If true, a fighter using heroin is not a good thing, I think. But he left a legacy of great fights. I remember a couple of great fights he had that I saw on television with a guy named Irish Frankie Crawford (also a popular local L.A. guy), who was a tough and sometimes dirty fighter.

Another local fighter who was very popular in Los Angeles and who had a lot of fights at the Olympic was Armando Muniz. Muniz as you know was a welterweight and was gaining glory and prominence just as Mando Ramos' career was starting to fade. I remember there being a bit of a rivalry among local L.A. fight fans as to who was the better fighter, Ramos or Muniz. Muniz also had some tremendous fights during that period with great boxers.

You mention some of the great names that Mando Ramos fought in the ring. Maybe I'm just biased, but I think boxing just flat out had a lot more great fighters in those days than it has now. Muniz fighting guys like Mantequilla Napoles, Carlos Palomino, Hedgemon Lewis and others made for some very exciting days for a boxing fan. Maybe all the micro weight divisions and the myriad of boxing commissions have spread out the talent, but I still think boxing isn't as deep in talent as it once was.

[H2O Man]

4. Good points.

Ramos, like the great Wilfred Benitez, is an example of how a fighter who had begun to participate in the sport in the amateurs as a youngster, has actually had a long "career" before they even turned professional as a teenager. And every fighter starts out with the potential to box just so many rounds -- including sparring, amateur fights, and professional bouts. Those who have better defensive skills will have more rounds with less wear-and-tear, but it takes a lot out of them nevertheless.

Ramos, like Muniz, was part of one of LA's "golden eras." They helped put LA up with Philly as the two top cities in the country at that time. NYC, Chicago, and Detroit were the second and third tier.

When my brother and I were in NYC for the second Ali-Frazier fight, Hedgemon Lewis and Ken Norton were across the hall in the Statler Hilton. We knew his cousin from amateur boxing cards. Some of the highlights from that trip include just standing in the hallway, talking to Lewis and Norton about the big fight. For them, it was just taking time to talk to a couple boxing fans; for us, it was an opportunity to talk to a couple of the toughest guys in the sport.

I think that it is hard for my younger son to appreciate just how good Jose Napoles was. When we look at Curtis Cokes' record, he had some loses before he became champion. But he was one of those guys who really reached an entirely different level when he became champion. I loved watching Curtis Cokes fight. Then he defended against another guy who had some less-than-impressive fights on his record, and Napoles was just far superior a fighter. I show my son these guys to say that an "undefeated" record isn't necessarily better preparation for becoming champion than having a couple defeats where you learn from the experience.

Carmen Basilio has been friends with our family for generations, and so my brothers and I knew his nephew Billy Backus. He was one of the strongest guys in the division, but we were surprised when he got the TKO over Naples. Of course, Napoles won their return match convincingly.

I have mixed feelings about the "junior" divisions. Carlos Monzon was simply too big for Napoles, and even for Emile Griffith. (I still think Emile won the second fight with Monzon.) But at the same time, I think that many of the best fights were between guys who today would be considered to be in different weight classes, and less likely to fight.

One of the things that was an advantage in the past was training methods. Guys could fight hard for 15 rounds, and were in more than one or two fights per year. The "high-tech" methods of today are, in my opinion, markedly inferior to the past. Today's fighters too often look to fight like Leonard against Hagler, with short bursts of action over 12 rounds. It is no coincidence that Ray was pumped on steroids for that and a few other fights.

[aint_no_life_nowhere]

5. Paul Williams to fight Kelly Pavlik in September

I've been reading that on blogs for the last couple of days and tonight Teddy Atlas said the fight was almost confirmed. What do you think about that? I think Paul Williams is slightly taller than Pavlik but does he have the physical strength to fight a very strong fighter like Pavlik, even if he bulks up in weight in a couple of months? Pavlik I think could comfortably move up to super middleweight. I understand that Pavlik is running out of people to fight in his division and Bob Arum is really anxious to put this fight togther. It seems like a mismatch to me, but I wonder what you think about it.

[H2O Man]

6. It's interesting,

at least on paper. Pavlik is actually a little more than an inch taller than Williams (unless PW has grown taller recently, which is possible). But Williams has a reach advantage -- 82" to 75".

Williams is considered tall at 6'1" because he is a welterweight. He has seemed comfortable making that weight. I've spoken to a friend who has been in his training camp previously, and from those conversations, I anticipated Williams staying at welterweight, or possibly moving up to jr. middleweight in the future. But stepping up two weight classes, to fight a 6' 2.5" middleweight, who as you note could easily fight up a weight class, can be a real challenge.

While Williams showed he has power, and Taylor showed Pavlik can be hurt, it would seem that PW's best chance would be to keep the fight at long-range, circling, and trying to make it a rather boring affair. The problem is that Pavlik is outstanding at tracking his prey, and his record shows that against quality opponents, he puts enough pressure on to wear them down after five rounds, and put real hurt on them for about three more rounds, knocking them out.

When we look back to the "golden era" we've been discussing, one of the interesting examples of good welterweights who had some success moving up to middleweight, who might be a fair though certainly not exact comparison to PW, was the great Cuban champion Luis Rodriguez. Of course, he had Angelo Dundee training him. Luis was fast on his feet, and had outstanding hand speed. He was about 5'7.5" tall. He had good power in the welterweights, though it wasn't there so much against the good middleweights. In 121 bouts, he had 57 decision wins, and 49 KOs. He could out-box guys like Carter, and really was cheated against Nino Benvenuti in 1969. He was one of my favorite fighters, but I don't think he would have done well against Kelly Pavlik.

Anything is possible inside that ring, but I would expect that a Pavlik win by TKO in 8 over Williams is very likely.

[aint_no_life_nowhere]

7. You're right about the height difference

I had it backwards. I think Pavlik against Abraham would make more sense but maybe Arum doesn't see it as a big enough drawing card. I also forsee Pavlik eventually moving up to super middleweight. I hope the Williams camp didn't let the knock-out of Quintana go to their heads. Williams seems to me to still be in a learning process of discovering himself as a fighter and needs a few more fights under his belt before he takes a big step up to someone like Kelly Pavlik. A devastating knock-out at the hands of Pavlik could set his career back.

[H2O Man]

11. Pavlik vs Abraham

would be the most interesting middleweight fight for boxing fans. But the US sports fans who like boxing don't know enough about Abraham yet, and he needs at least one more fight here to become familiar enough for the fight to sell at the level it has the potential to. John Duddy vs Kelly Pavlik will sell a heck of a lot of PPV, but I really don't think Duddy has near the chance that Abraham would have.

We've discussed Paul William's desire to be a Bob Foster-type fighter. Against Pavlik, he may have an experience not unlike Foster when he fought Frazier or Ali.

[TroubleMan]

8. Chavez Jr. had a scare.

Split decision - even with the hometown Mexican judges.

I watched it live, and he was absolutely exhausted in the last two rounds (so was his opponent). It appeared that he took his opponent lightly, and wasn't prepared for the full 10 rounds. His opponent was a tough cookie to crack and gave him a good run for his money at the end there. Chavez Sr was very animated in the crowd and at times worried. He would change seats two or three times and even went to his son's corner in concern to talk to his son.

The crowd was very unhappy at either his performance or the the decision, because they pelted the ring with debris after the decision announcement. IMHO that's unfair, because the last few rounds were very exciting, and I thought Chavez Jr. did enough to win it by a round or two.

[H2O Man]

12. It's hard to say

how good Chavez Jt might become. I think that it is probably better for him to have some tough, close fights, rather than being given more easy fights at this point. Either he'll reach that next level, or he will find out what his limitations are. He seems like a really nice young man, but I do not see him being at the top.

[TroubleMan]

18. I think the expectations on him are too high.

It seems like they expect him to be as great a boxer as his father. Those expectations are unrealistic for almost any young fighter.

I guess when you're Julio Cesar Chavez's son, you've got no choice. You must be a boxer and you are expected to be great. That's a tough thing to do.

[TroubleMan]

9. Here are rounds 9 and 10 of the Chavez-Vanda fight.

I'm sure this link won't last more than a day or two, but here you go:

Rd 9
http://youtube.com/watch?v=yMnaMUPnbzY

Rd 10
http://youtube.com/watch?v=CqGP2v24jCc

[Kingofalldems]

10. Thompson looked like a sparring partner

The fight actually looked like a sparring session until the final punch. Who's next for Klitschko? Does his brother have a chance with Peter?

[H2O Man]

13. I thought he was

doing okay for about four rounds. His cornermen were in over their heads. Their advice after the first round (or was it after the second?) was absolutely wrong: they told him to make an adjustment that had him moving into his opponent's power. He should have been going to his right for at least six or seven rounds, and never standing right in from of Klitschko.

After that, he was just like a sparring partner. Good call. I think part of it is that he has been a sparring partner for years, and really hasn't fought at the level he needed for experience at the top level. When all your top level experience is being a sparring partner, that behavior comes out under pressure.

Two things stood out: (1) He was able to connect a lot, even though his punches were slow and without much pop on them. It shows that Klitschko has a harder time with opponents his own size. (2) This was a good fight for Klitschko; he'll benefit from this one, and should be improved in his next fight. I hope he fights Nikolai Valuev next. Rusian Chagaev may be sicker than the public is aware of, and I don't think there is much chance of his remaining a force in the division. Valuev vs Klitschko would be interesting.

The older brother has a chance against Peter. That is, if he can prepare injury-free for a fight. It can be hard to return after a long lay-off, and he is getting up there in age. But he is big, and has/had a better delivery of punches than his younger brother. Samuel needs to be in very good shape if they fight, and needs to keep his hands up. He has a habit that too many fighters today have, of dropping his hand when he brings the jab back. Whenever I have trained anyone, no matter if they have no experience or a lot of experience, I have insisted upon what I was taught: you tuck your chin into your shopulder when you jab, and you bring your hand back to your shoulder. Rubin drilled that into my head, to the point it became second nature. Do it in the gym, and you'll do it in the ring. Sam Peter's biggest "weakness" is getting tired after he throws a lot of hard punches, and dropping his hand when he jabs. Certainly, that is what either Klitschko will look to exploit, if either of them fights him in the future.

[aint_no_life_nowhere]

16. What do you think of Klitschko's style?

I think we may have had this conversation before. On the blogs, I note that Klitschko is getting a lot of heat from the fans for some of the things he's been doing recently in the ring. He continues to throw out that left hand, often not to jab but to measure distance from his opponent and to block his opponent's view and frequently he leaves it straight out there for a second or two. I noticed that Thompson started doing the same thing in response. Some fight fans are questioning whether that's borderline legal for him to do and whether Cortez should have at least given him a warning. Also, Klitschko seemed to throw a combination and then grab Thompson. He seemed to be aware that Thompson couldn't fight on the inside. Klitschko did a heck of a lot of hitting and then grabbing and received no warnings for it. With those long arms, Thompson didn't seem to be able to fight when in close. I think an uppercut could have done some damage to Klitschko as he was coming in like that, but Thompson didn't seem to be able to deliver.

What's your opinion, borderline or completely legal?

[H2O Man]

17. I felt that Cortez

needed to give an official warning. First, Klitschko keeps his arm extended in a manner that is not legal. You can't do it. Second, he kept grabbing behind the neck. Third, he would push Thompson down.

Cortez told him several times to stop. If a fighter does three things that are against the rules, and continues to do each after you have told him to stop, you are supposed to stop the action, and issue the first warning. You make it absolutely clear that you will not tolerate breaking the rules.

If Thompson had been coming in, and intentionally or unintentionally using his head, elbows, forearm, or shoulders, the Klitschko could be excuse to taking defensive actions. But that wasn't the case. Instead, the referee looked the other way. I said to my son that it reminded me of Michael Jordan taking some extra steps; he said it was more like his pushing off before shooting.

Thompson's problems inside were largely related to his being very slow. He did okay throwing body shots, at least for a few rounds. But a good body puncher lifts his shots, up under the opponent's ribs. You dip with your knees, and so even if a guy is trying to hold you, it is possible to land some serious punches.

After he had done pretty good for a few rounds, he seemed to be doing an imitation of Ernie Terrell against Ali, just standing there stiff-legged, slowly following the opponent's lead, with his arms in a defensive position that wouldn't allow him to deliver punches, even if he wanted to.

How do you think Klitschko would do against Nikolai Valuev?

[aint_no_life_nowhere]

19. I think Klitschko-Valuev would be a great fight

Most people would automatically pick Klitschko for an easy KO but I'm not so sure. I haven't seen very many of Valuev's fights but I think he could present problems for Klitschko. Valuev has gone 10 rounds or more in quite a few of his last fights. He can handle the distance and he has good stamina. He has an iron chin, maybe the toughest in the heavyweight division at present. Klitschko's stamina and his chin have at times been questionable. I'm not saying a solid and flush right hand thrown by Klitschko couldn't take Valuev out, but I think Valuev has the power to also hurt Klitschko and maybe Klitschko will have to work hard to take Valuev out and in the process risk getting knocked out himself. I don't think Klitschko could win this fight on his jab alone, the way he has in others. If the fight goes into the later rounds, who knows what could happen?

I believe that Valuev if I recall had a very brief amateur background in contrast to Klitschko's, but I think he's actually fought a few more rounds than Klitschko as a professional. While Clifford Etienne and Sergei Lyakovich were quality competition for Valuev, I think that Klitschko has faced the tougher opponents, such as Samuel Peter, Lamon Brewster, and Calvin Brock. But in the heavyweight division of today, the competition isn't all that great at any level in my opinion, and the differences in opponents may not be that significant.

Some people say that Valuev is ponderous and has terrible footwork. I thought he looked slow and plodding in much of his fight against Monte Barrett. Barrett is a pressure fighter and that style seemed to bother Valuev. Klitschko likes to use his reach in the center of the ring and use only moderate pressure while he sets up his opponents for the dangerous right hand with his jab. I therefore think that Valuev with his long reach is the type of fighter Klitschko would prefer not to face, while Klitschko is the preferred type of fighter for Valuev to fight. I thought Valuev looked much improved in his fight against Lyakovich, his footwork and work rate looking significantly better to me. Valuev has a good jab and has developed an effective double jab that could bother Klitschko, who isn't used to a fighter being able to land a jab against him with consistency. Valuev might test the comfort zone in which Klitschko likes to fight simply because of his long reach and jab and might force him to adjust. I think Klitschko has the overall quicker hands, however. And Valuev doesn't always seem to set himself for his punches, but when he does he seems to have very good power.

I'm not sure how this fight would play out. I think Manny Steward would probably work on Klitschko's body attack, which is somewhat lacking in his style. That long and big body of Valuev would be an inviting target. But Klitschko doesn't seem to like to stoop and bend and reach for the body. Klitschko seems to like having his hands up near his face most of the time. He's become a straight standing headhunter with a somewhat simple and predictable (but unstoppable) jab-jab-jab-right hand attack. Neither man is a defensive genius and both are hittable, but Valuev seems to have a very hard head. And would Klitschko be able to punch upwards all night at a man who's almost 8 inches taller and outweighs him by over 100 pounds? If Klitschko tries to clinch and wear Valuev out, he's going to find himself with a 320 pound mountain leaning on him.

I'd have to go with Klitschko who I think is a bit faster and a little more mobile and who has faced better competition. But Valuev as I understand it is a very hungry fighter and still improving in the gym at this late point in his career. I would go with Klitschko 60-40 and I think that's giving Valuev a much better chance than most would give him.

[bulldogge]

14. I am

pretty sure that he was Klitchkos sparring partner before the fight in which he got decked by the South African Corrie Sanders.

[H2O Man]

15. He was. n/t