Did Ines Sainz's Tight Pants Invite (Sexual) Harassment From the Jets Players?

[Cali_Democrat]

http://www.asylum.com/2010/09/13/ines-sainzs-tight-pants-invite-harassment-from-new-york-jets-p/

The New York Jets' whirlwind off-season -- which included lots of "Hard Knocks" cameras and Super Bowl buzz -- ends tonight when they take on the Baltimore Ravens on Monday Night Football.

As our friends at With Leather report, the off-season came to a sexy close with allegations from Mexican television reporter Ines Sainz that Jets players and a member of the team's coaching stuff threw footballs at her and called out to her in the locker room as she interviewed Jets' QB Mark Sanchez.

SportsByBrooks recently found a picture of the outfit Sainz wore during the alleged harassment, and it raises at least one question: How did Sainz even get those pants onto her body?

The sartorial choice has caused a few to compare the situation to a female reporter donning a bikini top and expecting a bunch of testosterone-laden men -- trained in barbarism -- not to let loose a few catcalls.

Read more at link..... http://www.asylum.com/2010/09/13/ines-sainzs-tight-pants-invite-harassment-from-new-york-jets-p/

[m00nbeam]

1. Yes those pants are tight

That said, nobody deserves harassment, sexual or otherwise. And the Jets players ARE adult men, and thus should be able to control their own behavior.

What a woman is wearing is never an excuse for sexual harassment or even sexual assault.

[Bobbieo]

4. She's lucky she is not in Iran!

[krispos42]

2. That is one lucky set of jeans.

And I'm not normally a "butt man".

[Bigmack]

3. GOOD....

...GOD!.....

[Codeine]

5. It should not be news that pro athletes are assholes.

Any further comment I could make about that picture would be crass. And immature.

[entanglement]

6. Idi*ts who harass women are ENTIRELY to blame for their behavior, NOT the women being harassed!

Just because a woman is in tight pants doesn't give anyone the right to harass her or touch her! I find this "testosterone" excuse disgusting, as a man I'll tell you the one thing testosterone doesn't do is to turn a decent man into an a**hole.

[m00nbeam]

7. Thank you!

Testosterone, no matter how powerful, does not have the power to override a man's brain and control a man's behavior, unless the man in question LETS it.

[blondeatlast]

9. +1. nt

[Name removed]

16. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[uncommon]

19. No, and it's irrelevant - she didn't force them to act that way - they chose to.

The onus for good behavior is on the perpetrator, not the person who is being harassed. To claim otherwise is, frankly, just stupid.

[Missy Vixen]

24. I'm another woman that disagrees with you

Whenever any woman infers that someone "deserves what she got" because of her attire, you're giving aid and comfort to those who believe sexual harassment is appropriate behavior.

It doesn't matter what she had on. The Jets' behavior was inappropriate. The league should come down on them, hard.

[CreekDog]

117. what's the difference between the deleted "she deserved it post" and the OP?

:wtf:


"she deserved it" versus "i wonder if she deserved it?"

:crazy:

[m00nbeam]

138. I know

Threads like this make me wonder if I took a right turn on my way to the DU.

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

31. Listen to this:

ASSAULTING A WOMAN IS EXACTLY AS INADMISSIBLE WHETHER IT'S A NUN OR A PORN ACTRESS.

[uncommon]

37. A-f'ing-men.

Thanks for that.

[jgraz]

38. Yeah, except nobody was assaulted.

[uncommon]

41. She was harassed - this is every bit as unacceptable.

[tammywammy]

44. She didn't seem to think so

NEW YORK (CBS/AP) Ines Sainz says she never felt like she was "attacked" when she entered the New York Jets locker room on Saturday to interview quarterback Mark Sanchez.

"In my opinion, I never felt I was attacked," the Mexican sportscaster told Spanish-language program DeporTV on Monday. "I went to the locker room and started to talk about commentary and sports. Another reporter approached me to say he was sorry these things were happening...and that evidently people were making fun of me."

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-504083_162-20016258-504083.html

[jgraz]

49. And she had to be told about it third-hand.

[blondeatlast]

72. I think that it's probably a very good thing that many of the respondents in

this thread, both male and female, aren't your countrymen,

They'd be bursting arteries all over the place--not to mention the rampant "uncontollable" male behavior.

[seabeyond]

73. no one is bursting arteries. and everyone condemned the mens behavior. nt

[Name removed]

74. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[blondeatlast]

79. Jeans and a white collared shirt is "slut" wear now?

Wow, just--:wow:

[Name removed]

92. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[blondeatlast]

100. what she wore before or after doesn't matter.

I dress just a tiny bit more modestly than her. I invite admiration, not catcalls. And those who catcall choose to be rude.

I was raised to admire how someone presents oneself--and not to comment on it unless they know the person.

[uncommon]

115. It's irrelevant - the onus for good behavior is on the ACTOR not the person he/she

abuses.

Get a clue.

[Name removed]

132. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[m00nbeam]

134. Must suck terribly to be a woman hating woman like you.

[uncommon]

137. Do you think that rape victims who wear short skirts are asking for it too>

Disgusting. Wanting attention is not the issue here - the question asked by the OP was whether a woman's dress should be considered when she is harassed or abused - and the answer is absolutely fucking no.

If I wear tight jeans, it is because I want to wear tight jeans, not because I want the world to call me a whore and yell pervert remarks at me.

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

104. No. After certain font size, DU seems to limit it. I used "font size=+10".

By the way, do keep on using that RW misogynist terminology.

[uncommon]

112. Are you fucking serious? "She dressed like a slut and got what she was looking for" ???

Talk about anti-woman, anti-democratic rhetoric. You should be ashamed of yourself.

A woman is not responsible for other people's actions toward her - the people taking those actions are responsible for themselves.

And jeans and a t-shirt is hardly "dressing like a slut" in the first place, even if it DID matter.

[seabeyond]

119. this is her game. why make her the vicitm? she doesnt see it as being a victim.

it is her role she plays. she promotes it. encourages it. plays in it.

all it did, was make it harder for all women in this profession.

she doesnt have a problem with that either.

she played, and the men played back. now the men get their ass chewed out. no more playing, .... period. the women in profession had to file complaint to make clear and reestablish the boundaries.

[uncommon]

128. The point of the thread was "did she bring it on herself" and that is a universal theme, not

something that is particular to this situation.

[seabeyond]

149. and that is why the womans org had to take the steps they did, even though this reporter

did not think there was any issue.

because of this game, this reporter plays with the boys, the womens org had to make a stink about it so it is clear.... NEVER is this ok, to protect the professional women that dont want to be harrassed.

now

isnt that

sad

we women have to stand up to the sexism toward palin too. even though we know she uses sex to get a vote. we still have to defend her. then she plays the card. pisses me off

[qazplm]

168. not sure I agree fully

if a person uses sex then there's a certain element of protection they lose (a la Palin, not the reporter).

You can't use sex to get what you want and then claim sexism when people play on the very field you have benefited from and in fact set up.

There is no evidence that the female reporter purposefully used sex to get interviews so her situation is different.
If for example she were flirting hard with the guys, making her own sexually suggestive comments (a la Palin) then that might be a different story).

[seabeyond]

169. Ines Sainz: 10 Reasons She's Not a Very Sympathetic Victim

i just googled how her employer promotes her and hit on the first site. it is kinda cute. not that i agree with everything being said on the site. i grabbed some of them. to give you an idea. that being said. her choice. i have seen her interviews talking about this. she just is not a victim. she knows she isnt. she is comfortable with what she is doing and who she is. she seemed right on with it all. i kinda liked her. but... she is not a professional, and it hurts other professional women in a male environment.


____________________
http://bleacherreport.com/articles/463241-ines-sainz-10-reasons-she-doesnt-deserve-an-ounce-of-sympathy#page/2

Ines Sainz got her job because she's a sex symbol and she knows it. That's why she does sexy photoshoots, and that's why she dresses the way she does.

Women before her worked long and hard to break the stereotype of women as sex objects for men, and Ines Sainz embraces it.

TV Azteca isn't the most professional news organization in the history of journalism.

Their reporters are all about selling sex, with unbuttoned blouses and shock stunts like sending a reporter to the Super Bowl in a wedding dress shouting that she was the real Mrs. Tom Brady. They're a joke of a news organization, and their reporters are nothing more than models with microphones.

There's Ines at the Super Bowl two years ago doing a very hard-hitting story on the size of the players' biceps.

Let's be honest: Ines Sainz is a very pretty woman who does fluff pieces to get her on the camera and get ratings up. When part of your job is groping men's arms for a story, you put yourself in a position where, unfortunately, these types of things can happen.

Ines Sainz doesn't exactly dress like a professional on the job or even on this recent media junket she's been on.

Here she is on the CBS Early Show wearing a very low cut blouse and a very revealing skirt. I don't know how many female journalists dress like that, but I'm betting not many. You're trying to do your job, and when you're working, there's supposed to be a level of professionalism there.

No reporter, male or female, should dress like that.

[qazplm]

178. eh dressing sexy isn't enough for me

I think that may be a cultural thing more than anything.

I think if we see evidence that she was being flirty in that locker-room and inviting what she got, then that's her fault, otherwise, it's the player's fault.

[m00nbeam]

40. I vehemently disagree with you.

Women do not come forward to fight such harassment (and even rape) BECAUSE of this "blame the victim" mentality.

If only she hadn't ... worn that outfit ... been walking in that neighborhood ... smiled at the stranger ... etc.

As a woman, I find it tiresome to have to be hyper vigilant 24/7 because some men "have no control over themselves".

[blondeatlast]

45. And then there's always the...

"Give us just a little smile, hon."

"I was only trying to be friendly."

Ad nauseaum.

I'm attractive, I play up the fact--but I want admiration, not animal behaviour. The fault lies entirely with the offenders who can't control their base tendencies.

[m00nbeam]

50. Yes, absolutely!

And the ever popular, "Why do you have to be such a bitch?"

[lukasahero]

55. So, when are you donning your burka?

Tally another woman who vehemently disagrees with you.

[blueamy66]

75. I don't wear a burka.

I dress attractively and enjoy when men compliment me.

I know what I am wearing and where I am wearing it. So did Ines.

This is so tiresome.

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

177. Ahhh, how kind of the admins to have left ONE post from you here so we can remember the username. nt

[uncommon]

18. Amen.

[Octafish]

107. + another 1

The media in Detroit are blaming the victim on this one ("It's also may be a 'cultural thing'...").

The reporter can wear tight jeans and a see-through blouse and men shouldn't be hassling her for it.

[blondeatlast]

8. did The Asylum's lurid headline mean I didn't care to read on?

The answer is yes.

[seabeyond]

10. bottomline the men were wrong. this reminds me of palin using sex for a vote and then griping

about being called on it, or yelling sexism. we all know when a woman uses her sexuality for advantage. more women than not have been a position to make the choice. professionalism and hard work, or the easy way of using sex. the reporter knows what she was doing. the team members know the game, too.

women who uses sex hurts all women in careers.

and

it is her choice

then team members get to own their behavior

but i dont like being a hypocrite.

[Lance_Boyle]

11. Reporters in locker rooms are inappropriate regardless of gender.

The whole incident should never have happened. I'd ban ALL reporters from ALL locker rooms. There's usually a briefing room right next door, anyway, where people are clothed and questions are meant to be asked. There is zero need for any reporter to be inside a locker room. It's a game, for chrissakes. Not important, and not news.

Thats said, are male reporters currently allowed in women's locker rooms? I think if reporters are to be allowed in at all, gender segregation is appropriate in locker rooms/changing rooms/showers.

[PassingFair]

12. +1

Because it is BIG business, the gender segregation
is out of the question.

It's like not allowing women in combat situations
and then denying them promotion because they don't
have combat experience in the armed forces.

They should NOT interview players in the locker room, period.

[CanSocDem]

13. You got it.

"It's a game, for chrissakes. Not important, and not news."

.

[FourScore]

17. I agree with you wholeheartedly. n/t

[Missy Vixen]

26. The female reporter for ESPN Seattle

mentioned yesterday that the team decides when players are available for interviews, NOT the reporters involved.

The only time the vast majority of NFL players are available after a game is in the locker room.

You may want to do some research on the matter.

[pipi_k]

29. I agree and add something else I heard yesterday

that I also agree with, which is that anyone who wants to be taken seriously in his or her field should dress the part.

I think she's being disingenuous in claiming ignorance about the effect she would have on a bunch of men.

They're not dead, for pete's sake.

And I'm watching a show on TV where she said she didn't feel harassed...just "uncomfortable". Which could have meant anything, including feeling uncomfortable about being around a bunch of men running around in various stages of undress.


And I just know my point will probably be grossly misinterpreted somewhere down the line, and I'll be accused of being all sorts of nasty things.

:shrug:

[Dr. Strange]

143. Wait, did the incident happen IN the locker room?

[cbdo2007]

150. It's sexual harrassment to the players for her to be in the locker room

because they are there working and the locker room is the place where they change clothes and take showers.

I agree with you here, all reporters should be banned from locker rooms. They should leave all reactions to the briefing room. The players should go to the briefing room right after the game, and if they still want to talk more they can go back in there after their showers. No need to have women around when guys are getting naked.

[Name removed]

14. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[LostinVA]

15. This OP is quite disgusting

Yeah, because the slut deserved it. I she didn't wear those pants, the poor men could have controlled themselves. It's her fault. The slut. How she doesn't wear those on a lonely street at night, or she'll make a man rape her.

[uncommon]

20. +1

[FourScore]

21. It's so true! Thanks for your post.

It's the old "she wouldn't have gotten raped if she hadn't dressed so provocatively" argument.

:puke:

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

22. +Graham's Number

[CrownPrinceBandar]

27. +Avogadro's Number..........

What a fatuous OP.

[lapislzi]

23. + 1 x 1,000,000

Everyone knows that women who are harassed are Asking For It. Because men are slaves to their dicks. :eyes:

[Missy Vixen]

28. Bottom line: How dare she report on the NFL?

She should just get her ass back into the kitchen. Oh, yeah: Bring the guys a beer. They're thirsty.

This has NOTHING to do with her attire. It has everything to do with the fact sexism is alive and well in the NFL. After all, there isn't a woman alive that can hope to discuss the NFL with any kind of authority. :eyes:

[LostinVA]

83. Seriously -- I'm sure you saw the quotes from players

From other teams.

[devilgrrl]

32. Had she not dressed like that, she'd get harassed for not being HOT enough.

A no win situation with a misogynist organization like the NFL.

[blondeatlast]

35. EXACTLY. nt

[blondeatlast]

34. Sometimes I wonder what year this is or if Gloria Steinem, Betty Friedan, Letty Cottin Pogrebin,

or Billie Jean King ever graced this earth.

[m00nbeam]

43. + infinity

[pipi_k]

48. Let's put it this way...

There are men out there who can't control themselves.

Many men who play in professional sports have a whole lot of excess testosterone, something a psychologist friend of mine calls "poison".

Anybody over the age of 15 has probably noticed the fact that football fields are virtual oceans of testosterone.

So...while there's no excuse for men to act rude and uncivilized, there's also a point where one has to ask the question, why add fuel to the fire?


It's like someone knowing that sticking his or her hand into a lion's cage is a really bad idea but doing it anyway, then complaining when the lion tries to rip that arm off.


Where does a person's responsibility for the impression he or she makes end?

Geez...I'm not even gay, but she does have a nice ass, and I have to admit that I'd probably be more focused on IT than on whatever she had to say...

How can we expect anything different from a locker room full of men?

:shrug:

[blondeatlast]

53. Let's put it this way--she is dressed entirely appropriately for a football game.

How is she not?

[pipi_k]

58. She wasn't there to watch a football game

She was there to perform a job.

To act like a professional.

If you want to be taken as a professional, you dress like one.

Professional attire would probably have consisted of a nice pair of slacks, a tasteful blouse, and maybe a light jacket.

Conservative. Professional. Something that said, "I take my job, and myself, seriously".

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

68. It's a fucking football game. It's summer. It's not a Supreme Court hearing.

People wear casual. Yes, including reporters. Soccer field reporters in Brazil wear T-shirts and jeans.

Her clothes are OK.

[pipi_k]

105. She. was. there. to. do. a. job.

do people here show up at their jobs dressed in their pajamas and nightgowns on "Casual Fridays"?

And this isn't Brazil. It's the US.

It might not be what people want to hear, but we ARE judged, to one extent or another, by how we present ourselves.


That's why, after football games, formal press interviews with some of the players are generally done AFTER the team have showered and put on suits and ties.

They're off the field. It's a whole new persona they want to project. Professionalism. Respectful of themselves and their audience.

[pipi_k]

154. PS....about the weather....

We're not talking about August in Miami.

this is September in New Jersey.

And even if it had been overwhelmingly hot that day, she conducted the interview inside the brand new...air conditioned... locker room in a brand new stadium.

Where a blouse and jacket would have been appropriate and not at all uncomfortable.


Men sports commentators wear suits and ties outside near the fields where it can often reach temperatures of 90 or 100 degrees.

[blueamy66]

77. AMEN

finally

[Hell Hath No Fury]

67. She is a professional --

sports reporter for a Spanish language station. I object to women who resort to T&A for their jobs -- as noted in other posts, it hurts other woman are trying to make it professionally and be taken seriously at their jobs.

[LostinVA]

86. Yes, Brazil -- that does play a part in this

She is expected to dress that way. It's her uniform.

[LostinVA]

85. They are adults and need to control themselves -- that is a made up excuse

And nothing else.

It's also a reason people, often men, give for cheating.

"Boys will be boys" doesn't cut it anymore.

[pipi_k]

106. People do need to control themselves, and I would never claim they don't....

but we all know that some don't.


If she seriously didn't/doesn't know that dressing the way she did would attract male attention...some of it probably not very polite, then she needs to be told.


Do not dress a certain way and then be all surprised when people react to the way you dress.


Do not show up to do a job, even at a football practice, dressed like you're going out clubbing.


It's a simple concept, really...

:shrug:

[Enrique]

25. sports

:eyes:

[ourbluenation]

30. google "Denim Day" n/t

[bullwinkle428]

33. Keith Olbermann put her on the "Worst Persons" list last night -

he gave some kind of rambling explanation, about how she was getting interviewed by every media outlet as the result of this incident, along with something about another female reporter from this same Mexican network interviewing Tom Brady a couple of years ago while wearing a wedding dress and trying to propose to him.

Quite frankly, his attempted explanation made me awfully uncomfortable - it totally avoided the actual harassment part, and it made me wonder if some of that rampant misogyny that does exist kind of rubbed off on him from his sports journalist days. Made me sit there and think about what he really thinks of people like Rachel Maddow.

[Common Sense Party]

114. Keith's a turdstick.

She even said it wasn't harassment, she just considered it embarrassing and rude behavior.

She Tweeted about it, but it was the women's sports reporters organization that made it into a much bigger incident.

[seabeyond]

120. "women's sports reporters organization... bigger incident". they had to.

they had to make it loud and clear this is unacceptable to redraw the lines of behavior so women are not harrassed in locker room. women that are professional and not playing the game. they had to make a stink about it. and the owners and higher ups are going to have to make an issue with the players. and everyone is going to have to pretend that this woman is the victim, when everyone knows she isnt... she says she isnt, she promotes herself as this.... because the women who are professional dont want the harrassment and is against the law.

[AngryAmish]

36. Clothes are a signalling device

Like most possessions clothes signal who we are and what we believe. I am paraphrasing Tim Gunn but he said that the clothes tell us about who you are and how you want to be perceived and treated.

In the middle ages in Europe there were Sumtuary laws, which proscribed who could wear what. Wear the wrong hat and you get whipped. It is/was a common law throughout human history. Why? Because clothes signal who you are and imposters should be punished.

So what was this woman doing wearing clothes like that covering the Jets? First, this woman is from Mexico and clothes like this are common on women on television there. The standards and mores in Mexico are different than in the US.

She was wearing these clothes to signal what exactly? Actually, it may be to signal her position as "hot" and to get attention, primarily from her viewers. In my office there is a picture of a TVAzteca hot female reporter bumping and grinding with a Chicago Bears player from media day for the Super Bowl a few years back (why? It was in the newspaper and I am also in a picture on that page.) Anyway - the standards are different there than here.

Bottom line: Did she wear those clothes to get attention? Yes. Should she have been harassed? Of course not.

[blondeatlast]

39. No.

She's dressed quite appropriately for a football game.

:banghead:

[kentuck]

42. Maybe not but she will get an offer from Playboy magazine....

before she gets out of town. I think she knows how to use her assets.

[Lucian]

46. Nice pic.

Looks like she was looking for attention, wearing tight jeans like that. She wanted guys to look. It's going to happen. If you wear something that form-fitting, a guy is going to look. A man will also dress like that if he wants women to look at him. If I feel good about the way I look some days, I wear tight t-shirts and tight jeans. I want the attention then.

But does a person deserve to be harassed when they dress that way? Absolutely not.

[PVnRT]

47. Jesus H. Fucking Christ on a fucking pogo stick

I suppose rape victims "deserve it" for not wearing burqas as well.

[m00nbeam]

52. I know, right?

:grr:

[pipi_k]

54. That's not even the point

First of all, she wasn't raped.

And, in a short interview I just saw about 1/2 hour ago, she stated that she was NOT harassed or groped or anything like that.


The truth of it is, those guys acted more like a bunch of 13 year olds than grown men.

She wanted to be noticed. She got noticed.

end of story.

[PVnRT]

65. There's a difference between checking a woman out

and doing what the Jets were doing. Provide a link to your interview, since I just did a news search and can find no such thing.

Oh, but it wasn't rape, so everything's OK now. Never mind.

[pipi_k]

103. I saw it on a different program I can't get the link to, but...

Here is another link to what she said.


http://www.allvoices.com/contributed-news/6754038-ines-sainz-pictures-what-happened-to-reporter-inside-ny-jets-locker-room


She said she "did not feel attacked".


And I never said it was all "OK" and that we should never mind.


She was not raped or even attacked, by her own admission.

She was treated like a sex object by a bunch of men who acted like unruly seventh-graders.


If you're sent to do a job, dress the part, at the very least.

[LTX]

109. Just for some perspective:

http://www.nydailynews.com/ny_local/2010/09/13/2010-09-13_ines_sainz_mexican_sports_reporter_claiming_sexual_harassment_by_jets_uses_twitt.html

The female sports reporter at the center of a sex harassment claim against the Jets now says she doesn't feel the locker room treatment she received was out of line.

"I want to make clear that in no moment did I even feel offended, much less at risk or in danger while there," Ines Sainz told Spanish-language program DeporTV on Monday.

So no, it wasn't rape. Or murder. Or torture. Or, apparently, even harassment.

[another saigon]

51. This comment offers another point of view

Tuesday 14 September
By Kathy


It never fails to amaze me when attractive women that take advantage of their looks by dressing in sexually revealing attire wonder why they are not taken seriously. If she was walking down the street or at a night club, would she complain about the attention men are giving her. I doubt it. If you want to hide your brains behind your low cut tops exposing your breasts and ultra tight jeans showing off your butt, then accept the consequences. If you want to giggle and flirt during your interviews, then accept that everyone is going to assume you are a dim witted bimbo. This woman obviously lacks common sense, dress sexually in a locker room full of half naked men loaded up on testosterone and want the men to respect your brains and talent? The men will never see your brains beyond the tight pants and low cut tops and will assume her only talent is (fill in the blank yourself). She is smart enough to use her assets to get herself behind a microphone, then be smart enough to shut up and appreciate it. If she doesn't want to change the way she dresses and if she can't handle the attention, maybe she should try reporting on something other than sports. This is a slap in the face to women who are truly sexually harassed.



As someone who has been sexually harassed in the workplace, I agree with her.

[LeFleur1]

59. For God Sake,

She had on a pair of jeans.
One thing about the Middle East, the men understand that if women don't cover up the men can't be held accountable for their actions.

We've gone backward politically, racially, and I guess in women's rights, too.
By the way, if everyone is excluded from the locker room, fine. But if men reporters are allowed in after a game and women reporters are not, that reeks of discrimination in sports writing.

[seabeyond]

61. anyone see a front picture? nt

[Hell Hath No Fury]

70. I did --

it was much more provocative that the jeans shot.

[seabeyond]

60. and this is what i agree with. call it what it is. now, having watched her interviews

she owns it. she says she likes her body, likes dressing as she does. i did not see one interview she had or gave where boobs were not exposed for all. she says, she knows it is happening so she shuts her ears to not hear it. she plays the game. she is smart. she is balanced. i was impressed with her.

it was the other women in the locker room that had the hard time, uncomfortable and offended .... and they took it to her. she makes their job harder.

it was good that the jets higher up got on it... for the rest of the women that will work in this field.

[blondeatlast]

69. And that POV is crap regarding this issue. It was a football game, she was dressed as many women mig

for a game--and most men know how to behave themselves.

I'm an attractive woman, I dress the part when appropriately--but I'd be similarly dressed for a football game.

This woman v. woman hate has got to stop. It feeds into the worst male's perception of women and reeks of envy besides.

[LostinVA]

78. And, she is Brazilian

And yeah, that makes a difference. They are so less uptight about "how a woman dresses." There is a reason why a brazilian wax is called that.

[seabeyond]

80. they are also less uptight about the sexual harrassment players give them. hence, her not bothered

until she was told she was suppose to be bothered.

she said on one interview.... she interviews soccer players all the time. it is the job.

the other women in the room were offended for her. because, in this country, women do not accept that behavior. in her country, they encourage it. and they play with it. that is all any of us are saying

[LostinVA]

88. I said the same thing, but other reporters were offended

Employees of the business acted inappropriately, and even if the reporter wasn't offended, that does not legally excuse them, especially since other female and male reporters were present and were bothered by it. This would never be allowed in an office, and it really is the same thing legally.

[seabeyond]

94. that is why we are allowed/able to compartmentalize here. the men sexually harassed, not allowed.

she wasn't bothered, expected it, is her game

in the u.s.... not allowed and make harder for our women. so they reacted and org came in.

the men were playing this womans game, and they will be the one's punished. but we have to at the least, be honest about her part.

the men KNOW not to play the game with our women sports people. the men got the ok to play with this sports person.

now.... the head does in the football thing will speak up and tell men not to do that shit to any woman

but you know, they are saying..... she wanted it. so though we will all play nice and pretend, it is there, and it is dishonest.

and that is where i always have an issue

action/reaction.

and we are just talking about the dress, we haven't even begun talking the body language ect....

and i am saying this, without judgment of the woman. i listened to her on interviews. i liked her. she isn't bothered.

but i don't want to lessen work environment and sexual harassment for women. and that is what an event like this does, especially when we are not honest.

i really see it like palin, playing the sex card for a vote then whining about it.

[LostinVA]

95. But employees can't do that

To me, that is the point here.

And, who knows if Ines was offended or not? It sounds like she is so used to be treated like that, she didn't even realize what was happening to her, and that's sad.

[A HERETIC I AM]

123. No she isn't. She was born in Mexico and reports for a Mexican TV network.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/In%C3%A9s_Sainz

[blondeatlast]

131. As I replied to CPB upthread, there's be a lot of "uncontrollable" males

and mini-strokes in women if they shared his country. And yet, he generally seems to be one of the good guys. We, in this repressed country, seem to feel free to label people--even while we appreciate that yes, they are damn hot. I don't get it.

Personally, I love seeing men and women dress provocatively (even though I lean to men, I appreciate that she's quite sexy as I have other women, even to the point of indulging a few times) and yet somehow, I manage to not call people sluts and gigolos and make rude noises when I see one--not even in a nightclub. Somehow, I never thoguht that was all that unique.

Yeesh. this thread is revealing--and I don't mean lovely Ines's picture, either. :wow:

[seabeyond]

146. i would imagine blonde, that in his country, men are allowed to behave this way to women

and sexual harrassment would not even be discussed, nor would any of the men be accused of anything but being men.

[LostinVA]

76. Another blaming the victim post

And, whoever 'Kathy" amy eb, and from ever board, she is part of the problem, a woman who makes excuses for harassment and discrimination.

:wtf:

[Yavin4]

173. No One Deserves to be Assaulted or Harrassed

With that said, there is professional and unprofessional attire for certain occupations. The Jets were wrong for their behavior, and she was wrong for wearing unprofessional attire.

[blondeatlast]

56. Because she was dressed entirely appropriately for a football game? nt

[Hell Hath No Fury]

57. I had a girlfriend --

who, back in the 80s, went to a SF Carnaval block celebration. She was a wildly voluptous woman, who chose to wear a skin-tight, micromini one piece with a plunging neckline and no underwear. When she came home from the event she complained about how disgusting it was that men had been whistling at her and making comments about how hot she looked. I told her then -- and, as a feminist, I still believe it today -- that you cannot act surprised and indignant when you set out to dress in a manner meant to draw attention to yourself in a sexual manner and those around you respond.

Does that view relieve men of responsibility for their actions? No.

On edit:

Did a little research on Ms. Sainz and it appears that this is her schtick -- T&A sports reporting.

If I were a woman sports reporter this is certainly how I would dress as a professional. :eyes:

[seabeyond]

62. i feel it is a mutual responsibility. to suggest women can do whatever, behave how ever

is ok

and those asshole males

just does not work for me.

i agree with you

i dont know why we cant seperate, what the men did was wrong

and she dresses adn behaves using her sexuality. their is ownership in that. not professinal.

[pipi_k]

64. Well and there you go...

We really can't be surprised or shocked when people react to us based on how we present ourselves.

Back some years ago when I was prettier and way slimmer than I am now, I wore very short skirts. My legs are quite long anyway, so just about any skirt I wore was short, but that's beside the point. I wore short skirts and shoes with heels and my legs looked like they were 4 feet long.

Did I attract male attention? You bet.

Did I enjoy it? Hell yeah. I knew exactly what I was doing, and didn't put on this faux outrage bullshit over men who noticed my assets and walked into poles or whistled or did double-takes.


But the downside to that was that I, as a person, was not taken seriously.

It's unfortunate, but probably true, that we can't have both...

[LostinVA]

89. Boys will be boys

[Ter]

179. Honestly, that's nothing

Compared to what I see everyday in the NYC Summer, she's over-dressed.

[another saigon]

63. it appears she can only find tight clothing

I have not found a picture yet where she had any loose clothing on at a sporting event.







She is a black belt in tae-kwan-do. I suppose she could kick any man's ass that pisses her off.

[LostinVA]

90. She really is a fucking slut -- just look at her -- ugh!

Jesus, I bet the hoochie mama dresses like that so guys look at her and want to tap that ass, huh?

OMG

Is this DU?

Yes, it is.

[VMI Dem]

121. Alright, your sexism is totally out of control now.

:rofl:

[LTX]

66. Right.

She's perfectly entitled to wear deliberately provocative clothing into a locker room full of half naked professional football players (or rather, as little deliberately provocative clothing as possible without being naked), and she should expect no reaction whatsoever when she does so. The context of the situation, and her designed and executed attempt to acquire a specific reaction in that situation, mean nothing at all.

Indeed, she bears no responsiblity whatsoever, not even a smidgen, when she provokes precisely the reaction that her choice of attire was designed to provoke. After all, because she's a woman, she's presumptively too feeble minded to know or understand the consequences of her choices. Choices she makes, and broadcasts, and profits from, as part and parcel of her professional product.

http://www.google.com/images?hl=en&safe=images&q=Ines+Sainz&um=1&ie=UTF-8&source=univ&ei=wueQTL-1C8L_lge61oTkAQ&sa=X&oi=image_result_group&ct=title&resnum=4&ved=0CDsQsAQwAw

[LostinVA]

91. I know -- that slut

:thumbsup:

[VMI Dem]

96. Where am I?

Jesus Christ.

[LostinVA]

110. It's scary I need the Sarcasm smiley

[LTX]

113. And yet you make what is arguably the most sexist comment in this thread.

Curious.

[LostinVA]

118. WHOOSH

[LTX]

98. Hey, she sells sex.

She's not known for insightful, witty, or analytic sports commentary. She's known for juxtaposing her breasts against the muscles of professional athletes. That's what she was hired to do, and that's what people watch her for. But I guess reality needs to be ignored. Apparently, she can only continue doing what she does, and her employers can only continuing paying her for it, and her audience can only continue watching her for it, if everybody involved pretends that she's actually Damon Runyon in a nun's habit.

[LostinVA]

111. That's right, she is just a sex-selling ditz who dresses like a ho

I'm agreeing with you that boys will be boys and Ines the Hoochie brought it on herself.

[LTX]

116. And, according to you,

she's too dumb to know it. I guess you think that because, well, she's a woman.

[LostinVA]

122. That's right, i am a well-known sexist on DU

WHOOSH x 2

[LTX]

125. Maybe. Maybe not. But on this particular thread? n/t

[VMI Dem]

129. Sorry...you're kidding right? Your original response was a joke wasn't it?

You don't really think she had a hand in the way she was treated do you?

[LTX]

151. It's getting hard to tell the satirical from the non-satirical on this thread.

In my case, my original post was rather mild satire, intended as an argument that she did indeed "have a hand in this." Probably a poor narrative choice. To be perfectly clear, she acquired the reaction that she both intended to acquire and that her employer paid her to acquire.

I can't locate any player interviews or other stories that she generated from her locker room visit (something one would expect from a sports journalist). The only story that seems to have resulted is "half-naked woman enters locker room and gets cat calls from half-naked football players." Not a bad story, but not exactly news. And pretty clearly the story she was after in the first place.

I assume your post was non-satirical, and that we disagree. If satire was in fact your intention, please correct me.

[PVnRT]

142. Dumb bitch shoulda warn a burqa!

Honestly, the wimmins these days ain't go no class or modesty.







:sarcasm:

[TonyMontana]

139. +1

[gort]

71. There's someting about those pants that I just cant put my finger on...

and that's what bothers me.

[LostinVA]

81. Do you get that other reporters in the locker room were offended by that?

Even if she wasn't offended, they were. Even if she wasn't offended, that is behavior that cannot be allowed by employees. Just because this is a football team in a locker room doesn't mean that it isn't a business and the players aren't employees. They can't act like this. It doesn't matter if it's a locker room, a briefing room, a board room, or the sidelines.

And, it doesn't matter how the Brazilian reporter was dressed. Good grief. This thread reads like something on a date rape apologists board.

[Yavin4]

174. And They Were Offended Because She Wasn't Dressed Professionally

Where I work, she would have been sent home for dressing unprofessionally.

Also, unprofessional dress applies to both men and women.

[Karenina]

82. MY QUESTION IS:

How WELL does she know the game? Does her astute commentary inspire respect? :shrug:

[VMI Dem]

84. No excuse for the players behavior.

[LostinVA]

87. She is a reporter for BRAZILIAN media

She is expected to dress like that, no matter how icky I think that is.

She also was fully clothed, and didn't go prancing around a locker room in boy shorts and pasties. Good grief.

[MrScorpio]

93. If she didn't want that kind of attention...

Then those guys are in the wrong.

Blaming it on her clothes is just another in a long line of lame assed excuses.

Did anyone notice that she's fully clothed?

[NightWatcher]

97. Did she put on those jeans to get attention? not harassment, but attention

I say of course she did. She knew they made her ass look fab. She should have learned from the unwanted attention that came to Erin Andrews before she poured herself into those jeans before hitting the sidelines.

[MrScorpio]

99. She's obviously an attractive woman who knows that she's attractive

That is no crime and no excuse for the behavior of a bunch of overgrown boys who have no idea how to behave themselves.

They have no self control, so it doesn't matter what she was wearing, I'm sure the same result would occur regardless.

So, you're saying that it's too much to ask the guys to practice a little self control?

[CreekDog]

101. Alerted

not okay to blame the victim.

replace the "sexual harassment" with "rape" and you'll see what i mean.

[asdjrocky]

102. I'm going to need to see several-

Perhaps hundreds of pictures of her to make a fair determination on your question.

[Ganja Ninja]

133. Does this help?

[asdjrocky]

159. Well, it certainly doesn't hurt. nt

[cleanhippie]

108. Considering that she bills herself "The Sexiest Reporter on Mexican TV" and uses her sexuality to

gain access and open doors, and considering that she HERSELF stated that she felt she was NOT harassed.......


What is the question again?

[pipi_k]

155. No kidding...

Leslie Visser became a respected sports interviewer, not because she used her gender or sexuality or the way she dressed, but because of the job she did.

Suzy Kolber and Michele Tafoya are two more women sports interviewers who actually look and act like they take themselves, and their jobs, seriously.

I may be wrong here, but I've never seen any of them dress with anything less than class. Not like they're going to a party or on a hot date.



Anyway, you are correct to say that she herself never claimed she felt harassed. Just "uncomfortable".

But that fact certainly isn't going to stop people from being sickened and outraged over pretty much a non-issue....

what can ya do.

:shrug:

[Ganja Ninja]

124. This is very common for the latin TV stations.

Go down to Miami and check out the girls doing the weather on the evening news sometime. The reality is her employers promote her sexuality first and her sports reporting a distant second. Her choice of clothing is no accident. Those pants don't just come off the rack at Walmart. That's all custom fitted and I'm pretty sure she can't sit down in them or get them on without help. It should come as a surprise to no one that the Jets reacted the same way her male audience back in Mexico reacts every time she comes on the tube. That's her job. You'd think she would be use to it by now.

[Gator_Matt]

126. She intentionally provokes a sexual response

Let's drop the nonsense equating this to "females wearing revealing clothing invite rape." Catcalls are not rape.

She is exploiting her sexuality for her own gain by dressing like - quite frankly - a whore. There is a reasonable expectation under the circumstances that she would receive catcalls. To claim otherwise would be naive to the point of absurdity.

Would I have catcalled? No, but I refuse to feign outrage over such a predictable (and harmless in her case) event.

This is coming from a progressive, left-winger who has the utmost respect for women. We should be picking our battles more appropriately.

[DatManFromNawlins]

127. She dresses the way she does to get a reaction

They players deserve to be reprimanded for their comments, and she deserves to be reprimanded for inappropriate attire for her professional duties. If you want to strut around like a sexpot, your complaints about comments regarding the jeans that look painted on and the blouse that is missing 3 buttons that you're wearing are not really all that justifiable. She knows exactly what she's doing and it's ridiculous to make a big deal about any of this.

[LostinVA]

145. "She knows exactly what she's doing and it's ridiculous to make a big deal about any of this"

2010

[CreekDog]

130. this should be posted in the forum where it's okay to blame women for getting harassed

whichever forum that is. :eyes:

[blondeatlast]

136. Don't be surprised if there's a request soon. Someone posted one for a

"men's forum" a week or so ago.

And I hear this is 2010.

[CreekDog]

140. Criminy --My post above was SARCASM

:banghead:

whatever. :thumbsdown:

[LostinVA]

144. Why in the world was this moved to the Sports Forum???

[kwassa]

135. The longest thread of the day is about this ??????????

Like, this is the most important thing in politic to happen in the last 24 hours?

Wow. Just wow.

[Renew Deal]

141. This disaster got moved into the sports forum?

:hide:

[CreekDog]

147. they must not be getting consensus that this is sexist

:grr:

[Renew Deal]

148. I find your comment sexist and offensive

:D

[CreekDog]

it's not unless everyone agrees that it is

:crazy:

[cbdo2007]

152. Just flirting with someone and saying they are attractive - is not harrassment.

I know some wacko people think this is harrassment, but really it isn't.

[LostinVA]

153. Strawman

Since that isn't what they did. But guess what? Flirting with someone and telling them they are attractive in a work environment is legally harassment.

"Boys will be boys."

[cbdo2007]

156. Actually you're right, it is harrassment if a man does it.

If a woman does it, the guy understands that it isn't really harrassment and laughs it off.

[LostinVA]

157. "If a woman does it, the guy understands that it isn't really harassment and laughs it off. "

You just won BINGO! By saying that women are just being too sensitive and touchy for not "appreciating" unwanted attention.

And, it is also harassment if a woman does it. It is inappropriate for a work place.

[CreekDog]

160. i give up

i mistakenly thought this was the 21st century and that DU was on the leading edge of that.

[CreekDog]

158. Tanks Caveman!

:eyes:

[LTX]

161. Since you insist that this was a "workplace,"

and apparently that Ms. Sainz was working as a sports journalist in this "workplace," maybe you can point me to the player interviews or other sports related stories that Ms. Sainz generated as a consequence of her locker room visit. As far as I can tell, the only story that seems to have resulted is "half-naked woman enters locker room and gets cat calls from half-naked football players." Which appears to be precisely the story she was after, and precisely the job her employer paid her to do in this "workplace."

[seabeyond]

162. actually, i have looked for past interviews to see how good she is at her "job" and

found no interviews. the only thing i find has to do with her body.

but then i am not good at googlin. so if anyone finds where she ahs actually dont some work, i would like to make an assessment of her professionalism, regardless of what appears.

[LostinVA]

163. I really don't see what that has to do with anything

Do you think folks not authorized by Corporate are allowed in to the locker room?

[LTX]

165. Gee, do you think "corporate" in the football "workplace" uses sex to sell its product?

I'll suggest that if you don't, then you aren't watching any football. Seems to me there was a mutual understanding in this "workplace." She did the job she was hired to do, and football "corporate" gets to sell its product with the implied slogan "sexy temptress roving sidelines and locker rooms -- tune in!"

[cbdo2007]

164. Right, see your point is one that everyone seems to be glossing over...

If this was truly a "workplace" then it is the workplace of the half naked men. Why is her work sending her to a place where guys are standing around naked and this is what her "tweets" point to as making her uncomfortable. She had to try hard not to look around because she was embarrassed at the half naked guys standing around. That was the first tweet. Beyond that we dont' know what happened in the locker room. We dont' know what these "cat calls" were but she was obviously uncomfortable being in the locker room around the half naked men in the first place, aside from the "cat calls".

[LostinVA]

171. My God

[Yavin4]

175. According to the Rules of My Work Place

It is harrassment.

[flvegan]

166. (facepalm)

This thread, OP included, is so full of fail. Adding fail to fail, moving it to the Sports Forum.

Yeah, the woman has a great ass. What else I can see looks great too. Doesn't mean she deserves to be mistreated. Idiots.

[CreekDog]

167. I'll PM the admins on this one (well I can't figure out how to PM multiple ones)

see above.

[rocktivity]

170. As Keith put it so nicely yesterday

There was more than enough unprofessionalism to go around.

:headbang:
rocktivity

[Yavin4]

172. Dressing Provocatively and Flirting While on the Job

Is also a form of sexual harrassment.

[Yavin4]

176. If This Guy Showed Up To Do Interviews and Started Flirting with Players

Would he get a reaction? Is he dressed appropriately to conduct interviews as a professional journalist?

[trumad]

181. Where did you find a picture of Cboy?

[Iggo]

180. She wuz askin for it, yer honor. You shoulda seen how she wuz dressed!

Geez, I thought we covered this like 40 or 50 years ago.