Santa Clause Denounces Exclusion From Religious Debate

[immoderate]

Santa Speaks Out

(August, 2006) Exclusive interview with Theo-Celebrity Magazine. (Mods, this is printed in entirety by permission.)

Santa granted this interview at a time when his visibility is at a perceived low, though that could be accounted for by seasonal fluctuations.

Q: You are often compared to the Lord of the Universe. Does that pose any problems for you?

Santa: Well it’s a two edged sword. Just being compared to the greatest can be very flattering. And of course, it’s good for business. But there’s another side, and some of it is deprecating. It hurts a bit that there are some who denigrate those comparisons and it’s not fair.

Q: Can you elaborate?

Santa: Well you know He and I started out together, different territories, as tribal myths, told to explain the things that were great mysteries in life. And these are mostly told to children but adults like them too. So eventually, we chose different paths. I put on the red suit, and I went into the private sector, and he kept the toga but branched out into the ecclesiastical world. Went big-time too. But he doesn't do his own marketing, stays out of the public eye. So people don’t take me as seriously, and I understand that. It’s disappointing. Even insulting.

Q: What kind of insults, if I may?

Santa: Well one of the worst is this sort of moratorium that’s going on at Democratic Underground where nobody in the Religion and Theology Forum will bring up the comparison any more. Ironically, it’s usually the atheists that would introduce the comparison, but they understood me. I mean, take away the red suit … and a couple of layers of fat, but I could lose it any time I want to … what’s so different? White beard, supernatural powers, out of time, reward good behavior, except he just advertises that, and I deliver, no footprints, lots of points of comparison.

Q: Lack of exposure hurts business, right?

Santa: To a degree, but that’s not what bothers me. The theists all come back in the fall when they want their kids to behave. Some of the atheists take advantage, too. But what’s the harm? And the children benefit. But the atheists are a big disappointment in agreeing to go along. The worst part is it seems like a corollary to the application of Godwin’s Law, you know, where whoever makes a comparison to Hitler in a political argument automatically loses the argument. Well, they’re treating me the same way. Can you imagine? Now I’m treated the same as Hitler. It really takes the jolly out of you.

It doesn’t even make sense, the Godwin’s Law, I mean. What if the comparison is appropriate? Think there’ll never be another Hitler? Someone will try it again, because it worked. You don’t think the LOTU isn’t always looking over his shoulder waiting for the next tribal deity who wants to make his bones? Look around, there’s plenty of competition. Even that Spaghetti thing made him nuts. The atheists know that. That’s why I’m so disappointed that they’re not using the comparison between me and, you know, the big guy. I don’t want to sound conceited, but it is appropriate. He offers a lot of hope, but I deliver the goods, if you will...

Q: But Santa, though you have your adherents, surely they are not among the atheists. If more people are atheists then fewer will believe in you.

Santa: Ah, that’s the point, I’m an idea, I can do my job even if people don’t believe I’m real. I live by repetitions. An idea is much more powerful than the reality; ask Elvis.

Q: Yeah, like he'll show up for an interview...

Santa: Write it and he will come. Anyway, the atheists were giving me extra work in the off season. Religious arguments can come up at any time, y’know. Easter Bunny did well too. Now there’s a really amazing guy, Talk about productive. But he doesn’t do the publicity as much, candy and small stuff. Did you see my Lexus commercial? Toothie doesn’t get endorsements, but she’s been shunned in R/T too. She’s back to the juvenile circuit.

Q: So things have been quiet for you.

Santa: (Laughs.) Well, it’s never quiet in R/T. So life is quieter in that respect, but this is a busy time for me. Because of advertising lead times, I have to do my product endorsements now, way before the big season. That’s what finances the whole operation, and the savings from having no receivables department. Ho ho!

Q: Thanks for your time.

Santa: Well, it’s good to be back, I hope it doesn’t get too noisy.

;)
--IMM

[cosmik debris]

1. Delusions of grandeur

Clearly a symptom of mental illness.

[immoderate]

2. Archeologists of the future....

Will uncover many images of Santa and Jesus. What will they think? Santa gets to drink a lot of Coca-Cola. Jesus gets crucified a lot.

--IMM

[SPKrazy]

4. Archeologists Of The Future

may find that those who were atheists and thought they had it all figured out were wrong.

[cosmik debris]

5. That reminds me of a story

Over thirty years ago I was studying religion at Baylor University. My professor was attempting to explain why Jesus was a “true” god while others were “false” gods. He explained to the class that Buddha was a false god because he was always portrayed as obese. Therefore, he concluded that Buddha was an “oral sensualist”-- a characteristic not found in “true” gods.

A student with more courage than me (and lower expectation of graduation) raised his hand and inquired if that logic did not mean that Jesus was a masochist because he is always portrayed as submitting to torture. I forgot how the professor responded because the memorable moment was the question, not the answer. It still sticks in my head after more than thirty years!

[SPKrazy]

6. That's A Pretty Good Story

did your professor really think that Buddha was a "God"?

[charlie]

11. He seems to be mixing up

Siddhartha and Hotei. The old prof needed to read something other than his Bible once in a while.

There are places where the Buddha is accorded deference that doesn't seem much different than god worship. Michael Crichton once wrote an amusing travel piece about his running afoul of social customs in Thailand, one of which was that a person's head cannot be higher than a depiction of the Buddha. Not a problem for most Thai, but real trouble for the 6'8" or so Crichton, who had to take care to stoop-walk inside of people's houses. He saw a western movie in a Thai cinema and a shelftop Buddha statue bloomed into a sparkler explosion, where censors scratched the film, every time Peter Sellers walked by.

[cosmik debris]

12. Mixing up? No, I don't think that was the problem.

The medical term for his condition is fecal encephalopathy. (shit fer brains)

Coincidentally, he held the office of Chaplin of the University!

[charlie]

13. Ah

Sort of like appointing a member of the Temperance League to head the distillery. Well, what the hey, it's Baylor. I wouldn't expect them to do otherwise.

[SPKrazy]

3. Just Wish

people would get over the need to do this

[beam me up scottie]

7. Oh, come on, SPK!

You're not talking about IMModerate, are you? Because I'm sure he's not doing this to offend you or anyone else.

Have you ever seen him provoke anyone? Why, he doesn't have a mean bone in his virtual body.

[SPKrazy]

8. I'm Just Tired Of This Week After Week

I just am

[beam me up scottie]

9. Well who started it this time?

Seriously, I don't think anybody from the Evil Atheist Posse would throw Sandy Claws and ferry tails into the mix, we know better.

We usually try to ixnay it at the source, actually, before it turns into a freakin drawn out bloody battle. We hate it as much as you do.

Maybe we should start ignoring the posers and disruptors?

[SPKrazy]

20. Well IMModerate Did

not that hard to tell is it?

[beam me up scottie]

25. Apparently, it is.

The culprit is the op in http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=214x85027">this thread.

As usual, the evil atheist, in this case, IMModerate, was reacting.

[Evoman]

10. Then stop coming here?

And there is the ignore button. And there are the groups. Why piss on somebodys thread?

Maybe you should start a thread of something that interests you. Be part of the solution, not the problem.

[SPKrazy]

19. That Was Really Uncalled For Evoman

why don't you be part of your solution instead of saying I'm "Pissing" on someone's thread

the thread is nothing but a rehash of the same old shit santa claus faith God blah blah blah

I don't come here as much as I did namely for that reason

but I sure as hell won't stop coming here and saying what I THINK and FEEL about bullshit threads!!

[Evoman]

26. I generally like this forum the way it is.

I don't constantly complain about other people. Therefor, I don't feel a need to be a part of the solution, because I don't have a problem. If I did, I would no longer post here.

Now then, if I offended you I apologize. I was rather harsh with you, and I am sorry.

[immoderate]

14. BMUS is right, I didn't mean to offend.

But I was trying to be provocative.

This is a reaction to things I saw in other threads that struck me funny. I don't get down here, to what I think of as the arena, much these days, because what I see is a continuation of certain patterns, and I noticed the "zone of politeness" that skirted the Santa Claus issue in a number of threads, looks like Zeus is still fair game though. And that made me think about what Santa might say, and the interview took form in my head. I felt like I should write it somewhere. Where else would that piece go?

Now, lately I've seen people give dictionary definitions of atheism, while not accepting the same dictionary's definition of what a myth is. For the record, dictionaries are not authoritative, they just record how words are used. If someone disagrees with the ideas expressed, take them apart. Why make the subject taboo? Is there a massage forum?

--IMM

[SPKrazy]

21. I Didn't Make It Taboo

I think it's bullshit

and I'll continue to say so

[immoderate]

22. It's a pattern I noticed. Didn't say it was you.

I noticed you called something bullshit. Isn't that what you're pissed about?:shrug:

--IMM

[SPKrazy]

23. I Am Tired AKA Pissed About A Pattern

of talking about this week after week

is there nothing else to talk about?

[immoderate]

24. Actually, I haven't posted here in R/T for months. So I missed it.

That is I haven't been here for the weeks your talking about.

I came by, read a bunch of threads, saw some familiar stuff, like the continuous definition of an atheist argument, and this dancing around the Santa analogy struck me funny. I didn't want to get mixed up in anyone else's thread, so I put my little satire in a thread of it's own. I wrote it because I thought it was funny. I also think it makes some points that could be discussed.

I understand (and mostly support) the notion of avoiding confrontations, but this is a place to debate aspects of theology. So I expect that in this forum I will see things I disagree with. Could it be that people don't want their ideas challenged? Is that why we're here?

Notice that I didn't call anybody names, or tell them they were stupid. Was it a little snarky? OK, you got me. But I haven't seen a rational argument against anything I said. (Obvious hyperbole for humorous effect excepted.)

Sure, there's lots of other stuff to talk about. Start a thread.

Hypothetical: If I truly thought that religion was a danger to our civilization, should I be quiet about it?

--IMM

[beam me up scottie]

15. He does deliver the goods.

Brilliant!


:applause: :woohoo: :applause:

[immoderate]

18. Hi BMUS!

:hi:

Good to see you.

I hope I wasn't too harsh in taking to task those atheists who were being too "polite" to use the Santa analogy. (It's a closer though, an argument ender.) Such reticence is the kind of appeasement behavior that encourages our opponents. ;) That is what I was sensing, right?

--IMM

[beam me up scottie]

27. Yes, precisely.

See my post http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=214&topic_id=83392&mesg_id=83443">here.

[immoderate]

28. I figured to ruffle fewer feathers if I started my own post.

Are there people who want to control everything that's said in this forum?

--IMM

[beam me up scottie]

29. Well, some want to ban atheists.

And a few want all criticism of christianity eliminated on DU (except they call it "bashing").

IMO, claiming that liberal "secularists" regularly attack christians and/or christianity on DU and elsewhere just feeds the right wing pundits.

[immoderate]

30. I saw some of that.

How can you have a broad discussion of theology without entertaining the concept of no god? But then, if you'll forgive the metaphor, I'm preaching to the converted. :rofl: Oh, sometimes I do it to myself.

As was stated on another thread, where would this forum be without that diversity? I'm reminded of Mark Twain's view of heaven, with all those do-gooders standing around on clouds singing hymns for eternity.

Thanks for citing that link above. That was one of the posts that inspired this.

--IMM

[beam me up scottie]

32. Choir here.

Thanks for noticing, Preach!

My response to my M-I-L, when she asked me if wanted to go to heaven "But I won't know anyone".

When the bashees claim that we abuse them, they're insulting the believers in this forum, not the atheists.

The theists in here more than hold their own, and we do a pretty good job of calling out those who do insult them.

[salvorhardin]

31. I think it does far worse to make unsubstantiated claims about secularists

Or atheists or gays or Jews or... It perpetuates the phony culture war that the right wing has been honing to a razor's edge the past 20 years and using to divide the country.

[beam me up scottie]

33. Exactly.

Claiming atheists want to outlaw christianity is like claiming homosexuals want to ban heterosexuality, since both groups only want the attacks on them and the Constitution to stop.

[immoderate]

34. Well I don't want to coerce anybody...

but I would be misleading if I said I didn't want to influence some people's thinking, which I would do by making good, rational, compelling arguments.

--IMM

[beam me up scottie]

35. You're right, promoting critical thinking isn't coercion.

I suspect the motives of people who try to stifle it.

[immoderate]

36. I'm suspicious of the politicians who stifle it.

For others it's usually an ego defense, and a healthy one. It gets you through those dissonant moments. I guess it's easier not to allow those dissonant moments. That stuff is uncomfortable.

--IMM

[beam me up scottie]

37. You bring up another good point.

I used to be of the mind that discussing religion was uncomfortable and should be avoided.

Well, six years of * and the actions of him and his henchmen have persuaded me that we HAVE to talk about it, no matter how uncomfortable it is, because the people who orchestrated his reign have also installed judges, Senators, Congressmen and many more politicians at the federal, state and local level.

I think they count on liberals being squeamish about religion for fear of upsetting christians.

[immoderate]

38. That's true. I mostly avoid the subject in everyday situations.

Religionists are very sensitive.

However there may come a time (if it hasn't already) where survival will require critical thinking. Religion has a poor track record at making things better.

--IMM

[varkam]

16. LOL! That was very good.

"Now I'm treated the same as Hitler. It really takes the jolly out of you."

:rofl:

Very nice.

[immoderate]

17. Gracias.

My main aim was to get some laughs. Much appreciated.

--IMM

[Zhade]

39. Fantastic piece!

I laughed - this is brilliant.

[immoderate]

40. Thank you.

I often say there is nothing above humor. And I always hope it's true.

--IMM