A Word Or Two About Religion

[cali]

This post was inspired by IdaBrigg's post on Islam. It's grown too long to effectively post on it. I'm not going to repeat anything I wrote over there, but a few thoughts have come to mind.

Legend and myth encrust religion as naturally and as thoroughly as barnacles encrust the hulk of the Titanic. Religion is rooted in belief, in faith. It is not rooted in reality. There's no evidence that Christ rose from the dead. It's an article of faith. There's no evidence that Mohammed ascended to Heaven. There's no evidence for any religious miracle. It all relies on faith, not reality. By reality, I mean the natural world. The world that can be investigated and tested.

When we ascribe personality traits to Jesus or Mohammed or a score of other religious figures, we're projecting what we want to see. Human being have been doing this since the dawn of time. It's obvious that we're doing it still.

Religion is filled with myth and allegory. Adam and Eve and the Garden are myth. Much of the Bible is allegorical. I was surprised by how literal some people were on Ida's thread.

I'm not knocking faith or myth or allegory. Just pointing out that it's impossible to speak of any religious tradition without taking those them into account.

[varkam]

1. Well when you start saying things like 'myth'

and 'no evidence' and 'not reality' then there are a few around here who tend to get their panties in a twist. They figure people saying things like that = 'not real' or 'they're calling me stupid and I must retaliate'.

[Freedom_from_Chains]

4. No, it's just one of those things that happen when one starts

speaking the truth around those who are delusional. Talk about a good way to get yourself strung up.

[ClintonTyree]

2. Stop making sense....

;) I'm about halfway through "The Gospel of the Flying Spaghetti Monster" by Bobby Henderson. It's a magnificent look into the dogma that surrounds various religions done in a very humorous tone.

I'm a devout believer of the FSM myself. The evidence it quite clear if people would only open up their minds. My chosen Spaghedeity hasn't caused one war or even one person to be killed in his name. Can other religions claim the same? Yargh! Ramen!

[Freedom_from_Chains]

5. You might also want to read "The End of Faith", by Sam Harris

If you haven't already done so. In it he talks about the reality that we simply can no longer afford public policy to be dictated by religious dogma in a nuclear world. The stakes are just too high.

[Vexatious Ape]

8. very good book

I'd recommend it to about 95% of the planet.

[ClintonTyree]

13. Yes, I've read it.....

"The Gospel of the Flying Spaghetti Monster" is nowhere near as serious. It's merely a tongue in cheek look at the absurdity of the "intelligent design" movement. "The End of Faith" should be taken much more seriously because it's happening right now and as you say, "the stakes are just too high".

[MissMarple]

3. Religions do change as cultures change in response to new conditions.

Karen Armstrong seems to be saying something like what you've mentioned in her book "The Battle for God - A history of Fundamentalism". She talks about the differences between mythos and logos. I've just started it. Good stuff.

[Freedom_from_Chains]

7. And what is the difference between mythos and logos?

[checks-n-balances]

14. Mythos is the figurative vehicle of 'truth';Logos is the literal & factual

That's my understanding of it, in a nutshell & off the top of my head (figuratively speaking!), and somebody please correct me if I'm wrong.

[Vexatious Ape]

6. It's the 21st Century

We need to begin shelving these "holy books" and dismissing religious leaders as the charlatans they are before it's to late. Make these bastards, and thier followers PROVE their beliefs or shut the hell up.

[Freedom_from_Chains]

9. Proof is not part of their vocabulary. It's about what one believes

that determines what the truth (reality) is.

[saltpoint]

10. Is there any legal disparity between Pat Robertson calling for the

assassination of Hugo Chavez and my calling for Pat Robertson to be stuffed into a woodchipper?

[Dogmudgeon]

11. Yes

With Rev. Pat, you'd be ruining a perfectly good woodchipper.

Yes, I know. That was entirely uncalled-for. But it was funny, ne c'est pas?

--p!

[saltpoint]

12. LOL! But you're right. I should show more respect for inanimate objects.

[Freedom_from_Chains]

15. Not to mention what one might be doing to the environment.

But then again, it could be good for the flowers.

[NMMNG]

16. Now, now

It is wrong to call for the brutal killing of another human being, even one as vile as Robertson. What he really needs is to be locked in a psychiatric hospital, preferably in isolation, and given large doses of antipsychotics. That would be the ultimate punishment as he would still be alive, but unable to spread his harmful filth to anybody else. :evilgrin:

[saltpoint]

17. O hell, you're probably right. But the woodchipper idea has strong appeal.

[NMMNG]

18. It does

But who wants to sink to his level? :shrug:

[bluesbassman]

19. Evidence and Faith.

You bring up an interesting point cali in that there is no evidence for any of the miracles recorded in the Bible, other than the eye witness accounts. Now, one can dispute whether these recorded accounts are legitimate or real, but on the other hand, can these reports be proven wrong? Therein lies the basis of faith. If a person's spiritual compass guides them to believe in something outside of the physical realm, it's faith that powers that belief.

Faith is really the common thread in the Bible, and Jesus was the ultimate example of faith. All of the other issues, dogma and "theology" that the fundies and neocon christians rave about is simply about control; one groups control over another. If any of them actually understood and believed the book that they use to to manipulate others, they would not do what they do. History is full of examples of one group or another misusing the scripture based on their own flawed interpretation. But there are also people who live and function guided by the true teaching found in scripture, which is summed up in "love your neighbor as you love yourself".