Studying the Bible on the train

[Sarah Ibarruri]

Let me first give you a background on this: Miami, where I live, is sprawled out extensively, uglily and horribly. Miami was spread by greedy developers with only money in mind and zero planning, while the govt. (probably corrupt) held its palms open. As a result, we're an ugly nightmare of traffic with nightmare commutes and barely any public transport. However there is a monorail-style train. True, it's only 1 measly line, and goes north and south only and nowhere else, but hey, this is Miami and it sucks, what can I say? However, if you happen to live near the Metrorail, or if you can DRIVE to it, you can take it. I started to take it a few months ago.

The problem: Now that I'm not concealed in my car, and I ride the train with other people, I get to find out TMI about people, far more than I ever wanted to know about the American society: you can hear them trying to arrange a human being to pick up their kids, you can see them putting on their makeup, and you see them read their Bibles, read their Bibles, and read their Bibles.

Now I have ridden trains all over the world. I’ve lived and worked in other countries, and taken the train to work, so it's not like riding a train to work is new to me. However, what is new to me is these masses of people reading their Bibles needily, and marking the passages in pink, blue, green, yellow, as if they had just found something extraordinary. Their Bibles are not exactly small, either. They're these huge mothers they cart around like Sisyphus with his rock. I've never seen this in any other country. In other countries, people read novels, look out the window, chat with one another civilly. I’m sure some people might read their Bible at home, maybe at church, who knows? They certainly don’t study their Bibles on the train.

So my question is, what's up with Americans that they need to go so far as reading and studying the Bible even on a train? I did notice that those people who read their Bibles on the train are not usually ones that look well to do. They appear middle or lower middle class. I've never yet seen anyone very well dressed and reading desperately through a Bible.

I have a theory that people in countries where there is no financial security and where things are going to hell in a handbasket, turn desperately to religion, as it's the only thing they have left to turn to. Except for the rich, people in the U.S. don't have a hell of a lot going for them, and hang on to God yelling for help, searching in their Bibles for a word or 2 to provide them with some sort of hope. I think things have gotten much, much worse since the Bush Admnistration. Maybe that explains it? Or maybe Miami is an exception to this Bible-obsessing, because it's such a screwed up city?

[msongs]

1. maybe they think the trains are so unsafe they have to

get their last minute revelations before it is too late?

Msongs
www.msongs.com/political-shirts.htm

PS - or maybe they are missionaries hoping to strike a conversation and convert somebody.

[im10ashus]

2. Maybe it gives them comfort in these very troubled times.

:shrug:

I say to each his own. I'd rather they read the bible than the GOP handbook. I was just having a similar conversation last night with the beau-friend. With that giant mudslide in the Philippines it must be hard to have faith in anything at a time like that. I lean more to the Agnostic side and the beau-friend has many conflicted ideas whose being gay and raised in the Southern Baptist Church left him with more questions than answers. I don't have a problem with people reading whatever on the train, as long as they don't start quoting out loud and making people uncomfortable. Just my opinion. :-)

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

3. I haven't seen much Bible reading on public transportation

in Minneapolis, so it might be a local or Southern thing.

However, several of my co-workers leave Bibles ostentatiously displayed on their desks where we can all see them and thereby know what good Christians they are.

[hedgehog]

24. What's ostentatious?

Perhaps they're just trying to interest you in a discussion without coming on too strong. It's amazing to me how uncomfortable the sight of a Bible makes some people.

[Burning Water]

29. It is, isn't it.

Would a Koran on the desk intimidate people as much? Might be an interestsing experiment.

[Dervill Crow]

36. I was off sick last week and an ex-missionary used my desk.

I guess most of the computers in the office went down and mine was one that didn't. It tickled me because Karen has pictures of Jesus, a Bible, and other Christian paraphernalia all over her cubicle. I on the other hand have a few things that would only be noticed if you were actually sitting at my desk--a little sign that says "The Witch is In," a calendar with the lunar phases and a witch's almanac, a spiral goddess statue, a gargoyle, just little things to make it homey, nothing ostentatious. And the best: My computer desktop is the picture of the dog pissing on the Bush/Cheny '04 sign that I pilfered from someone's siggy here on DU.

It will be interesting to see if she attempts to share the gospel with me.

[hedgehog]

4. Dare I suggest

You pick up a bible sometime and actually page though it to see what they're reading instead of ranting about it from the outside? The Bible is a collection of books written from oral tradition over several millenia. It does have some examples of sordid human behavior and there is much that can be twisted to suit the right wing agenda. Taken as a whole with an honest interpretation though, it calls over and over again to treat the poor with justice. This is true of both the Hebrew and the Christian Scriptures. I suggest you try Jeremiah. He warned the power structure of his time that a nation that put its faith in its army while neglecting the poor would collapse. Sound familiar?

[China_cat]

14. Best way to turn a person atheist.

[donsu]

17. oh please, get a grip

nt

[podnoi]

37. You can't suggest reading a Bible here, Didn't you know? Not allowed here

How dare you. You knew this is an atheist only Religion board right???

[trotsky]

44. I don't think the OP is criticizing the bible.

It's more of an observation that many Americans seem to be addicted to it. It's far too common among American Christians to get caught up in "bible worship" rather than Christianity.

[MikeH]

56. I.e. some people like to imbibe of the Bible

[Donald Ian Rankin]

55. Actually,

If you want to learn about Christianity, whether or not your contemplating converting, I wouldn't necessarily recommend the Bible as the first thing to read - it's obviously the definitive text, but something aimed at explanation rather than instruction might make more sense to read first/instead, especially if like me you're a non-Christian interested in learning "what do Christians think" rather than "How does Christianity teach I should live my life".

I would strongly recommend C.S. Lewis, especially "Mere Christianity", to non-Christians interested in learning about Christianity; Lewis himself would be horrified to here me recommending him as an alternative to the Bible, but this doesn't worry me unduly.

[MikeH]

57. I liked C. S. Lewis, and still do

"Mere Christianity" was one of the first books I read when I first became serious about Christianity. I also later read many of his other writings as well.

I especially like his logical arguments about how the moral law operating inside of us, i.e. our sense of right and wrong, as well as also our thinking and reasoning ability, would seem to point to or indicate some reality higher than ourselves, which one might come to call God.

Also his arguments about the claims of Jesus Christ to be God seemed to be very cogent, and I took them seriously and I do feel that I gave Christianity an honest try in my life.

However I have long since felt that Christianity, and having a personal relationship with Jesus Christ, did not help me in my life personally, so I am now no longer a Christian.

I do not accept that anything in the Bible must be absolute truth, including the words, or supposed words, of Jesus Christ.

I still accept Lewis' arguments pointing to some reality higher and greater than ourselves, and I would now consider myself closest to being a deist than anything else.

I agree that Lewis' "Mere Christianity" is an excellent book for learning about Christianity, and why Christians believe as they do.

[Viva_La_Revolution]

5. They have been bombarded with the meme that if you just

believe hard enough, if you just 'give yourself up to god' if you just tithe enough, then the magic man in the sky will make everything ok. Not to mention that if you don't 'believe' then you are not a worthy human being.

Organized religion has been used for centuries to control the masses, because humans apparently have a need to believe in something bigger than themselves.

I still haven't figured out what I believe, but I have figured out the the current fervor over religion in this country is clearly not true spiritual awakening.

[cyclezealot]

6. The BIble belt now extends from Baltimore to Phoenix.

Re: developers. they will do this trashing from America from Des Moines to Key West if they can. There is no corn field or orange grove more valuable as suburban sprawl as a source of Methanol.
THe Bible. Mixed feelings about criticisms of the Bible. Marx said that religion is the opiate of the masses. And it is. But, that divide might be seperating progressives from religious zealots, who have no where else to turn. Not in this America. As Bush wants it.
But, yes the Bible should be mixed with other sources of information. And here it is not with about 1/4 of the population. Bush uses religion as a method of mind control to steer people toward social conserative , regressive positions. But, to say that is new to America is not quite right. The original colonies. Many of the more elert founders who wanted seperation of church and state like Jefferson- fought the fundalmentalist of his era like we have to today. And Jefferson was trashed by them in the election of 1802? Recall, commonwealths like Rhode Island and Pennsylvania were set up to establish an approved religion and if you did not conform, you suffered with your acceptance and rights.
The stockades of old Massachusetts are not a symbol of tolerance. Or the witchhunts.
A myth. Pilgrims did not come to America to establish religious tolerance, but to establish there own spheres where they ruled. Almost exclusively. And we suffer today as a result.
As the Australians so well put it during Clinton's impeachment. So glad we got the convicts over your Pilgrims. and yes, ride the trains in Europe, you see current novels or multi- faceted media with a wide range of opinion being read.
One thing America has in common with like Islamic countries, fundalmentalists. At the same time, some aspects of American religion can be progressive. My chosen leader- Dennis Kucinich is religious,a devout Catholic. Yet, at the same time he is an independent thinker. It can happen.

[hedgehog]

22. So - only fundies read the Bible?

[cyclezealot]

25. No.

But pretty much only fundies take it literally. Some Christains think it a living Bible. Or at least sometimes allegorical

[babylonsister]

7. And dare I suggest you don't need to read a Bible to make

an observation? I find this fascinating as I've not been on any train trips lately. And what a surprise for me to learn there are trains in Miami!
Perhaps their religious leaders are full of fire and brimstone, and passing it on? :shrug:

[mainer]

8. I brought a Bible on a plane to study recently

and I'm an agnostic. I just figured it was time to read the book that influences so many people to subscribe to magical thinking. I'm sure people who saw me underlining passages and taking down notes thought I was a fundie or something, but I'm FAR from it.

Next up for me is the Koran.

So just because you see someone reading the Bible doesn't mean they're Christian!

[ChairmanAgnostic]

12. be careful.

reading the Koran, 1984, Brave New World and other subversive material can subject you to search and seizure by those Homeland Scrutiny assholes.

[Burning Water]

30. Koran, I can

understand, but who got seized for 1984, or Brave New World? I hadn'dt heard aboaut that one.

[TallahasseeGrannie]

31. Are you being sarcastic

or has this happened?

[FlaGranny]

27. I occasionally pick up

one of my two bibles, a Catholic one and a King James, and read one or the other. In a way, I guess you'd say I "study" them. I find the bible both shocking and repulsive and not just a little ridiculous, but I do enjoy The Song of Songs. Quite sexy and nice. The problem is, the Catholic forward to this book describes it as "the Lord is the Lover" and Songs describes this in terms of human love. Nah, no way.

"You are an enclosed garden, my sister, my bride, an enclosed garden, a fountain sealed.
You are a park that puts forth pomegranates, with all choice fruits.
Nard and saffron, calamus and cinnamon, with all kinds of incense.
Mryyh and aloes, with all the finest spices.
You are a garden fountain, a well of water flowing fresh from Lebanon.
Arise, north wind! Come, south wind! blow upon my garden that its perfumes may spread abroad.
Let my lover come to his garden and eat its choicest fruits."

Or how about:

"How beautiful you are, how pleasing, my love, my delight!
Your very figure is like a palm tree, your breasts are like clusters.
I said: I will climb the palm tree, I will take hold of its branches.
Now let your breasts be like clusters of the vine and the fragrance of your breath like apples,
And your mouth like an excellent wine that flows smoothly for my lover, spreading over the lips and the teeth.
I belong to my lover and for me he yearns.
Come, my lover, let us go forth to the fields and spend the night among the villages.
Let us go early to the vineyards, and see if the vines are in bloom, if the buds have opened, if the pomegranates have blossomed;
There will I give you my love.
The mandrakes give forth fragrance, and at our doors are all choice of fruits.
Both fresh and mellowed fruits, my lover, I have kept in store for you."

Songs does not seem to belong to the bible at all.

[Donald Ian Rankin]

54. I've never managed to get anywhere with the Koran

A lot of the Old Testament has its origins in folklore, which means that lots of bits of it work a bit like stories, and the New testament is mostly narrativem which I found made it easier to read than the Koran, which was written by one person from scratch and jumps about a lot more, and is drier.

There's also the issue that the versions of the Koran I've tried in English hadn't been translated with anything like the skill of the KJV, which - irrespective of ones views on its content - is, I think, beautifully written.

[stray cat]

9. Would you feel the same way about people studying on the train?

Reading romance novels, political books, watching DVDs, listening to ipods. For many people riding in a train may be the most peaceful time they have for the entire day - a good time for catching up on work but also for contemplation, reflection or comfort. Thank goodness we are free to read what we choose in public and not just in private.

[Zensea]

10. I see people studying the Torah and the Koran and the Bible all the time

on the subway in NYC and I haven't noticed any increase in the incidence of such things during the Bush administration either.

Maybe now that you're not in a car, you're finding out what the real world is like? ... perhaps the problem is not Americans studying the Bible, but Americans in their little bubbles being cut off from people in their cars and now that you are no longer in your bubble you are seeing something you never noticed before.

[acmejack]

11. I have seen a real rash of bible reading lately as well.

In the waiting room at the VA. It is a new development. Large scale and apparently organized as there was a group of people that had shirts and/or hats with some sort of emblem. I was contemplating how religion is indeed the opiate of the masses. It was true then & it is true now, it is still less expensive than the real thing I suppose, and it won't get you crossways with the DEA...

[kenny blankenship]

18. It would be NICE if religion were truly the opiate of the masses

that might at least keep them calm and happy.
too often these days it seems like religion is the crystal meth of the masses, with an LSD chaser.

[hedgehog]

23. Actually, in the 19th century, opium was the opiate of the masses.

Remember, this was before strict control of drugs.

[trotsky]

43. LOL

That's a GREAT analogy. And great choice of pic, too. :rofl:

[Cassandra]

13. Plenty of Bible reading on the NYC subway.

With very small Bibles, though, mostly by people who look poor or black or Hispanic. Wealthier-looking people are usually reading the WSJ or the Times or a book. There are also non-English newspapers and plenty of ordinary books being read by all types.

[Sarah Ibarruri]

33. Interesting. I think people who are doing well don't read Bibles

At least not in public. Just a theory.

[HockeyMom]

47. What line do you ride?

What HOURS do you ride?

[Sarah Ibarruri]

49. Regular hours - I work M-F 9 to 5. nt

[Cassandra]

51. 4, 5 or 6

Late afternoon, usually. What do you see that's different?

[musette_sf]

15. I live in the SF Bay Area

and take BART fairly often.

I see people reading Bibles, Korans, various Hindi religious writings, Catechisms, and yesterday a Catecismo. I felt like telling the guy, "Es un mientra grande", but freedom of religion and so on. Also a fair number of Viet Catholic ladies with rosaries.

Your theory about the particularly not well to do does hold here, where the bible-reader in question has a large, well-thumbed, well-bookmarked, Post-It Noted, highlighted, underlined bible. They are few and far between, but they're here too.

I myself read "Science of Mind", "Creative Thought", and the writings of Ernest Holmes on the train.

FYI, I don't know if things have changed, but in NYC, where I lived until the early 80s, there is not a whole lot of religious or spiritual reading going on with train riders*. (See disclaimer about well-thumbed etc bible and its type of reader, which seems to hold on a national basis.) Maybe it's just so wonderful and open-minded in the Bay Area, that all kinds of people have the desire to pursue some spiritual leanings and peruse some like literature whilst commuting.

* See Cassandra's post in this thread re NYC bible readers - she is correct in that regard.

[im10ashus]

16. I think this was a post-and-run anyway.

Good points you made though. Love me some San Fran! :hi:

[bmbmd]

19. Why do you care?

It is my business what I read and where I read. Not yours.

[im10ashus]

20. Ummmm.

What the hell are you talking about? You talking to me?

[Sarah Ibarruri]

34. I didn't post and run. I had to run some errands. I'm here.

I still believe that all this Bible reading has to do with the fact that this country is going downhill fast under the fascists. People's lives are a mess. They're scared. They have no safety net. They have only the Bible.

[Redbear]

45. A really good point.

Especially since much of what they are reading does involve hope for the oppressed etc.

[Dorian Gray]

53. I don't know...

I live in Brooklyn, and I'm surrounded by tabernacles, pentacostal churches, baptist churches and synagogues. Every time I get on the train, someone is reading a Bible or some religious messianic Jewish work. (The Rebbe has a huge following in Crown Heights, just one stop after mine on the subway.) I find loads of people reading spiritual literature out here. In Manhattan, though, not so much.

[Warren DeMontague]

21. If I want incomprehensible, I'll stick with James Joyce.

but to each his own.

[ginnyinWI]

26. for some Fundamentalists,

The Bible becomes almost more important than God. It's a tangible thing--they can hold it in their hands and feel connected. The Bible and what it says becomes the central focus, and reading it is more important than praying. God speaks to them through it and provides an answer to every question, and they feel than the Bible protects them from the evils of the World.
Being one of a group of Bible-toting people, complete with the highlighters and leather or vinyl zippered-covers also becomes a way of belonging. They feel like they belong somewhere. It's a crutch, surely, but so is drinking or drugs, and I guess I'd rather see them with Bibles.

The real pity is that our so-called leaders in the GOP have, since 1980, waged an organized battle to win over these Fundamentalist by coming into their churches and indoctrinating them so that they think that the GOP is the Christian political party.

[Burning Water]

28. Why do you care?

What harm does it do you what people choose to read? I see people reading mind-rotting brain candy like romance novels all the time, but isn't it their choice? Don't they have the right to live their life as they want?

[TallahasseeGrannie]

32. I think some people find it challenging to fit

Bible study and prayer into busy lives and public transportation time would be great scheduling strategy, a self discipline, if you will. I used to take a bus in NJ and a LOT of folks would pray their rosaries.

Better than giant boom boxes, as far as I'm concerned.

[arwalden]

35. It's A Fashion Accessory.

[Dogmudgeon]

42. Bingo!

We have a winnah!

For lots of people, their faith -- any faith at all -- is a fashion statement. It's their gang regalia. Their "colors".

There are many people who do take their faith seriously, and some of them even read their religious books in public, but a lot of people like to make a display of their piety for reasons of pride alone. I've even seen neo-Pagans all dressed up in capes and pentacles and reading Pagan books, etc.

Crips, Bloods, Christians, Pagans, Buddhists, Rastas, Scientologists -- well, at least they chuck people off the train for jumping up and down on the seats. (But not while it's moving or being filmed.)

--p!
What (and Who) Would Jesus Wear?

[Sarah Ibarruri]

48. Wow that's a really good point!

I hadn't realized how much that's true. It's like a gang color: carrying the Bible and marking in it, in a moving train, to advertise publicly what they believe.

[NMMNG]

38. Bible addiction isn't just a Miami thing

I'm in MD and I've seen a succession of people with it at my weekend job. They tote their Bibles around like they'd die if they were more than 10 feet away at any given time. Any chance they have they're reading them. The ottoman has a permanent indent in it from one of our current staff's constant Bible reading.

[Sarah Ibarruri]

39. It's like they're sucking on a pacifier

I don't even want to talk to these people. They scare the hell out of me.

[NMMNG]

41. I never thought of it that way before

To me it always seemed like some sort of drug they needed to keep mainlining, but the pacifier metaphor works very nicely.

[varkam]

40. Going so far?

I don't really see what the big issue is here. I see people reading bibles often out in public (I'm an atheist who hangs out at a Xtian coffee shop), but, with the exception of three missionaries, no one has put it in front of me. As long as they can read their bible and I can read whatever heretical, blasphemous material I'm on at the time - then I really don't see a problem.

[HockeyMom]

46. Never on the NYC subways

riding them for 30 years. Of course, reading anything packed in like a sardine might be difficult to begin with. I have seen those people on the streets, mostly Times Square, with large signs hung around their necks, saying, "Repent! The End is Near." They were holding Bibles. I wouldn't count them, though.

I've seen many an elderly Italian looking woman, dressed from head to toe in black, carrying and saying the Rosary. But I think the Rosary is specific to Catholicism, so that wouldn't count. Some Greek men furiously fingering Worry Beads, but that's secular, not religious.

Sorry, can't say that I have.

[Sarah Ibarruri]

50. ROFL! I've seen the ones with the sandwich signs reading, "Repent!"

There are a couple of whackos like that down here too. However, these are regular people, not extremely well dressed, just obsessed with their humongous Bibles, insisting on doing this in public. I'm not a little kid, I've grown up through the 60s, 70s, 80s, 90s, and this is the first time I'm seeing people doing this. I have to believe people are just scared, desperate, financially strapped, sick and without health care, working overtime with little pay, they see their country dying, being murdered, but they refuse to believe it's this administration. They think it's some devil up in the sky somewhere, so they pray, mark their Bible, etc.

[slide to the left]

52. This weird thing instilled in America Christian

called a "quiet time." If we don't have it we are un-Christian. No one really knows what to do during it since its not found anywhere in the Bible, so a lot of people just read their Bible.