I don't want to fight the Christmas war...

[cobaindrain]

I don't know, this "war" that the far right lunatics have brought to our door, it's so beneath us. Why even engage the other side? Let them yell and scream about Christmas coming under attack, when it couldn't be further from the truth.

You know who they think they're fighting for? People like ME! Catholic, loves Christmas, loves Christmas trees, loves Christmas songs, Christmas cheer, Christmas parties with plenty of Christmas beer. These are the most cherished memories of my youth.

So naturally I must be fuming at all the Happy Holidays stuff. And how dare Kwanzaa butt in right?

Actually no, I don't give a damn. Everybody could say Happy Holidays for all I care, call every public tree a Holiday tree, change the words in school assemblies if you'd like.

This issue is so personal that you can't fight over it. In my house it's a Christmas tree, THAT'S ALL THAT MATTERS. You have wingnuts out there throwing a hissy fit because Kohls or Mandy's doesn't want to say Merry Christmas, throwing there hands up as if it' some huge conspiracy. I know a friend who owns a small deli, and he put up a Happy Holidays sign. Why wasn't it a Christmas sign? Because he lost it. That's all! This is such a non issue, that we shouldn't have to fight.

[bammertheblue]

1. I know!

I've never ever EVER in real life heard someone call it a "holiday tree". Whoever came up with the idea that a "holiday tree" was usurping their Xmas needs to get a grip.
To me "Happy Holidays" just means merry Xmas, happy hanukkah, thanksgiving, new years, and anything else you want it to mean.
These nuts who think there's an attack on Xmas are...well, nuts.

[cobaindrain]

3. yep

Happy Holidays is not offensive, it's just a way to cover all the bases. Happy Whatever You Worship....I'm fine with that. It includes EVERYBODY, Christians, Catholics, Jews etc etc. But somehow the far right wants to make it seem like Christians are being isolated by Happy Holidays.

[bammertheblue]

5. I was on a site that I thought was...

just a general moderate political forum...but then the topic of "happy holidays" got mentioned and everyone went batshit crazy!
There was one person saying they would be so offended if they said "Merry Xmas" to someone and the person didn't say it back, and that they would tell them off, and everyone got all freaked out about how Christmas is being "banned".
I just left. Not worth my time.

[cobaindrain]

9. what the foxheads want...

...is for those that celebrate christmas to get aggressive, get out there and fight for your holiday, become a christmas nationalist...some asinine stuff like that.

whatever happened to quiet tolerance, worshiping as you see fit without infringing on others?

[barb162]

11. Exactly.

I have called it a Christmas tree since I was a kid and will continue to do so. It's a tradition. Some people see Christmas as religious and non-religious see it as being mostly about Santa and presents. But everyone always has seemed to call it Christmas until recently

[Maat]

18. I call it a holiday tree .. mainly because that has the side benefit ..

of irritating the heck out of certain relatives of mine.

Oops! I've been bad .. I think I have to go talk to my pastor.

On edit:
I like 'Happy Holidays' also ... because I have progressive Christian friends, Jewish friends, Muslim friends, Pagan friends, etc. Everyone of them is engaging in at least a general celebration within the next month. I'm a Religious Scientist .. we honor all spiritual paths (that's the fun part ... we get to educate ourselves about the different spiritualities and bits of wisdom.

I agree .. it's not worth any fighting (can I still irritate ever-so-slightly yank the chain of a few relatives?).

[OneTwentyoNine]

Doesn't matter to ANYONE except the flaming RW religious nutcases...

Who,right on cue at this same time each year pull this chestnut back out of their collective ASSES where its been stored for a full year.

Of course Bush and his enablers love to see the ridiculous debate begin once again hoping against all odds it will shift attention off of him and his failed policy's. Got to say...in the past its worked to a degree,this year no one is biting. Its already a dead issue here in RW,Repuke locked,flaming RW religious Kansas.

[cobaindrain]

6. It's just not civil though

This time of year we could always count on a sort of lull in the bitter relations between Repugs and Dems on certain issues. After all it's the Holidays, sure the right wing is dead wrong all the time, but hey the holidays were always time for a cease fire. Now the bitter rhetoric is increasing instead of abating.

[bammertheblue]

7. It's like the

thinly disguised racism that comes out every year about Black History Month.
Ugh. Vile.

[Dagaz]

16. exactly

It's ok if people are excluded from MLK Day or Black History month. Fight against bigotry whether it's against Christians at Christmas or Blacks on MLK day.

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

2. It's crazy. The Aggrieved Victims of Liberal Anti-Christmasism

are royally PO'd because at some stores the employees say "Happy Holidays" instead of "Merry Christmas" when you buy stuff from them. The irony here is that for years, many Christians have been complaining about how Christmas has become excessively commercialized -- way too much emphasis on buying stuff. But now, the Aggrieved Victims of Liberal Anti-Christmasism are whining that the stores, by not making their employees say "Merry Christmas," aren't pimping Christmas enough. Go figure.

[tocqueville]

4. I wonder who started that war (ignorant European here ?)

and I do wonder what trees, elves, santas and reindeers have to do with catholicism ? blows my mind.

in Europe there have ALWAYS been two Xmas traditions : a pagan one and a religious one. They have been living side by side for centuries.
They are somewhat (the pagan one) different in different countries.

So some guys at Xmas go to the midnight mass, some don't (most). Big deal.

Even the names for the event don't remind of Jesus, except in English. In the Scandinavian countries it's "Jul" (Yule)...

where is the PROBLEM ?

[bammertheblue]

8. Hello,

can I come live in your country?
Mine is on the road to ruin:(

Sorry, I'm in one of those moods.

[tocqueville]

10. we need you over there, but of course you are welcome

BTW I did som research on Wiki and found interesting stuff that reallu contradicts the right wing religious nuts and the other "offended"...

Wikipedia :

An enormous number of customs, with either secular, religious, or national aspects, surround Christmas, and vary from country to country. Most of the familiar traditional practices and symbols of Christmas, such as the Christmas tree, the Christmas ham, the Yule Log, holly, mistletoe, and the giving of presents, were adapted or appropriated by Christian missionaries from the earlier Germanic pagan midwinter holiday of Yule. This celebration of the winter solstice was widespread and popular in northern Europe long before the arrival of Christianity, and the word for Christmas in the Scandinavian languages is still today the pagan jul (=yule). The Christmas tree is believed to have first been used in Germany.

Rather than attempting to suppress every tradition owned by pagans, Pope Gregory I allowed Christian missionaries to allow the innocuous ones as a means to make things already familiar ready aids to reeducation through such props for illustrating new understandings of things long before them but ignorantly perceived, giving a rich Christian significance to things that, for lack of such Understanding, stood to bear the reflection of heathen culture.<2> The give and take between religious and governmental authorities and celebrators of Christmas continued through the years.

Places where conservative Christian theocracies flourished, as in Cromwellian England and in the early New England colonies, were among those where celebrations were suppressed.<3>


After Oliver Cromwell's Puritans took over England in 1645, the observance of Christmas was prohibited in 1652 as part of a Puritan effort to rid the country of decadence. This proved unpopular, and when Charles II was restored to the throne, he restored the celebration. The Pilgrims, a group of Puritanical English separatists who came to North America in 1620, also disapproved of Christmas, and as a result it was not a holiday in New England. The celebration of Christmas was actually outlawed from 1659 to 1681 in Boston, a prohibition enforced with a fine of five shillings. The English of the Jamestown settlement and the Dutch of New Amsterdam, on the other hand, celebrated the occasion freely. Christmas fell out of favor again after the American Revolution, as it was considered an "English custom." Interest was revived by Washington Irving's Christmas stories, German immigrants, and the homecomings of the Civil War years. December 25 was declared a federal holiday in the United States on June 26, 1870.

A few newer religions, notably the Jehovah's Witnesses, some Puritan groups, and some ultraconservative fundamentalist denominations, view Christmas as a pagan holiday not sanctioned by the Bible, and do not celebrate it (although they are coming at it from a view detached from the historic Church).


...................

Christmas has some acceptance in the Islamic world, where Jesus is regarded as a prophet. Many secular aspects of Christmas are becoming common in developed Muslim nations.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christmas

so the ULTRACONSERVATIVE HATE CHRISTMAS and the MUSLIMS START TO LOVE IT...

and in the middle of this some other nuts go and tear down signs if they don't show "happy holidays" ????

go figure...

[bammertheblue]

12. Thanks...

I will be staying here for a while at least, as I am getting my master's at a school in DC:)
More on topic: I remember when I was in elementary school, a girl in my class was a Jehovah's witness, and (in my young mind) was "not allowed to celebrate holidays". I don't know if that's true, but she didn't do Xmas, Halloween, and I don't think she did birthday either. I remember my mother explaining it to me and me saying "That's dumb", and her saying "it's not dumb, it's just different". My mom's a smart lady.

[tocqueville]

15. with all respect to your mother

there is another aspect :

does she know all what that girl suffered during those years ? Not being "like the others"... "It's different for an adult who chooses a lifestyle, even if that lifestyle is very different. But forcing it on others ? specially kids...

What I wrote about Muslims it's true. I see the Arabs here, often shop-keepers decorating their shops. They don't put up"Jesuses", but classic Xmas deoarations. I never heard of a north-african being here
insulted by a "Joyeux Noël". Some might but I think they are very few.

My friend Mohammed across the street drinks wine more than I do. But he celebrates the Ramadan. Because it's a custom and the big fest they have at the end is fun...

Regarding the Jews here, they are so secular that you cannot see any difference. Sometimes names reveal that they might have a Jewish ancestry.

look at that Jewish site (in French) :
http://www.cclj.be/web/act_jeune.asp



they have an "Operation Santa" to gather money for sick children...!!!!!!!!!

WTF is wrong with America ?

[bammertheblue]

17. I don't know what she thought about it

I should probably ask her. Knowing her now, as an adult, I think she probably thought it was a little nutty. But she thinks most religion is nutty.
She was just trying to make me understand why this girl did something that was different than what our family did.
No offense taken at all:)

[BjohnsonMN]

13. I could never wish Bill O'Reilly a Merry Christmas

I could wish him a happy Kwanzaa, but I will not acknowledge him if he thinks his religion is the only one that should be recognized.

I don't care if stores choose to say Merry Christmas or Happy Holidays, but I do care that there are some people so bigoted to demand that they don't acknowledge any holiday besides Christmas.

[bammertheblue]

14. I could wish him

a merry felafel.

[Maat]

19. Now THAT'S funny!

:rofl:

[funflower]

20. It's definitely beneath anyone's dignity to engage in this non-issue.

I guess O'Reilly and friends are a little short on dignity.

[thinkingwoman]

21. I'm with you

let them sputter all they want, while the world goes right on spinning.

LOL on the story about your friend who owns the deli!

I always say Happy Holidays because there are Jews, Xtians, Agnostics, and Pagans in my family and that phrase covers everyone. But I don't really care what anyone says in a store.

Basically, if somebody is wishing me well, I'm all for it. Pity the people who have to have everything on their own terms all the time--they are in for a lifetime of disappointment.