sweat lodge

[H2O Man]

I spent four hours praying in a sweat lodge today. It is part of the oldest, most wide-spread ceremony known to human beings above the equator.

[hangemhigh]

1. Please share details...

I am a native american by a technicality, but look like a white girl. I continue to be fascinated and want to learn about native spirituality.....please tell!!!

[H2O Man]

3. it's good to remember

that everyone was tribal at one point in time. So whatever branch of the human race anyone comes from, their ancestors once lived in units that were defined by extended families in systems that were called clanna or tribe etc.

The sweat lodge was found in North America, Europe, and Asia. A small round "lodge" is the usual type, although there are exceptions. It usually represents the mother's belly. A pit is dug in the middle; rocks are heated until they are very hot, often red-hot; the rocks are brought in, people sit around the pit, the lodge is closed up; and in the pitch black, with the only light coming from the rocks, water is slowly poured on by the individual leading the ceremony.

The European lodges had the spirituality removed by the Christian movement, which sought to remove "spirits" from the land etc. So now they have saunas.

Most traditional people in North America have a version of the ceremony. Most of them tend to be kind of private. Native religions are one of the last things stolen, so to speak.

Most ceremonies have "rounds," although they are not quite like boxing matches. (grin) A round can last any amount of time. My cousin and I are gnarley old men who tend to live on the outer fringes of society, so we enjoy long ceremonies. Maybe we need more purification than most people, too. That could be.

What else could other folks add?

[hangemhigh]

8. How or where can I learn more?

Thanks so much for your reply....how does one prepare for this ritual, what is required, how is one invited to participate, etc.? Please. I took the sauna when I lived in Finland, had NO IDEA!!!

[H2O Man]

15. Well those are nice questions.

I hope I can give you good answers. Please go to your library and take out a book called "Lame Deer: Seeker of Visions." It was authored by John Lame Deer and Richard Erdoes in about 1972. This is about an Elder who was a real character.

Remember that Indian nations were and are as varied as European nations. So books about Lame Deer and Black Elk are about a specific culture. But they are very interesting.

Also, read "WisdomKeepers" by Harvey Arden with Steve Wall. You probably recognize Harvey as the senior writer for National Geographic, who wrote the articles in the 9-87 and 3-89 editions. Harvey's excellant book came out in maybe 1990.

Steve then published "Wisdom's Daughters" around 1993. It's okay, too. But Steve was a better photographer, and Harvey had the writing talent.

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

2. Thank you

I too have taken part in sweatlodge ceremonies, and honor it and all people who take part. Ho Metaquiasun!

[H2O Man]

6. See? Now you sound like my cousin!

He hadn't been up to see me for a while, and wasn't expecting what was a-waiting! (grin)

[WarNoMore]

4. It's odd.....

for the longest time after the 2000 election it kept running thru my head that I needed a sweat lodge to cleanse myself of the evilness that I felt coming. I was afraid if I mentioned this, that I might offend a native American.

[The Traveler]

5. Quite a privilege, ain't it

Now watch out. Native Americans make my old Jewish grandmom seem like a rank amateur. Forget the chicken soup. Show up with so much as a sniffle and you'll be hustled into the lodge to be slow cooked to a turn. Thing is, it really works. And it is a powerful emotional and spiritual experience, as you know.

[hangemhigh]

10. Please tell me more. nt

[indigobusiness]

7. My first lodge was unexpected

as I was a guest at a sun dance. I had been helping prepare the ceremonial grounds for the dragging of the skulls, scheduled for later that night.
I was watching as the lodge began for a man who had been on the hill, for 3 days, in a vision quest. I sat there in the hot sun, alone, except for those entering the lodge. Me, the outsider, trying to be invisible while discreetly taking in what I could. As the flap was being closed, Many Gifts, who was leading the ceremony, beckoned me to join them. I felt honored but taken aback, afraid I'd commit some sort of sacrilege as we passed the pipe or sang the songs. But, all went well. And that night I was called into another lodge. Two in one day! I must've lost twenty pounds. Ha. I loved that day, and I love those people.

[hangemhigh]

9. Down on it for the spirituality...

not to mention the quick weight loss :)I am learning as I go and so appreciate your insight-please tell me more if you have a chance-These days I find all politics and spirituality at a distinct crossroad.

[indigobusiness]

11. Read Black Elk Speaks

The famous Chief Seattle speech is something else to tap into.

"Man did not weave the web of life - he is merely a strand in it.
Whatever he does to the web, he does to himself."
Chief Seattle, 1854.


"In 1851 Seattle, chief of the Suquamish and other Indian tribes around Washington's Puget Sound, delivered what is considered to be one of the most beautiful and profound environmental statements ever made. The city of Seattle is named for the chief, whose speech was in response to a proposed treaty under which the Indians were persuaded to sell two million acres of land for $150,000." -- Buckminster Fuller in Critical Path.
http://www.kyphilom.com/www/seattle.html
http://www.synaptic.bc.ca/ejournal/seattle2.htm

Let him be just and deal kindly with my people, for the dead are not powerless. Dead, did I say? There is no death, only a change of worlds.

http://www.halcyon.com/arborhts/chiefsea.html

Controversial, but fascinating.

===

The Great Chief in Washington sends word that he wishes to buy our land. . . . But we will consider your offer, for we know if we do not . . . the white man may come with guns and take our lands. . . . How can you buy or sell the sky— the warmth of the land? The idea is strange to us. Yet we do not own the freshness of the air or the sparkle of the water. . . . Every part of this earth is sacred to my people. . . . When the buffaloes are all slaughtered, the wild horses all tamed, the secret corners of the forest heavy with the scent of many men, and the views of the ripe hills blotted by talking wires, where is the thicket? Gone. Where is the eagle? Gone

[hangemhigh]

12. All over it, thank you. Peace. nt

[Desertrose]

13. powerful experience for sure

Have done a number of sweats...did one with Wallace Black Elk's son (Tory) once in OR...I actually saw the stars in the lodge in that one during prayers. Pretty impressive and pretty powerful.

Helped build 'em a couple of times and actually brought lava rocks back from Az to PA (Hey...maybe thats how I ended up here in AZ...that was my first lodge!)

I felt utterly cleansed and energized after each time.....sweated outta places I didn't know you could sweat from!! Just something one has to experience- hard to explain. The smell of the sage on the rocks before the water hits em....touched something deep in my soul and memory...

Haven't done one for a while ( already hot enough where I live....but I think it would be a good thing again.)

Aho. mitake oyasin.... indeed!
kadeeshte
DR

[H2O Man]

14. "Land of the Spotted Eagle"

by Luther Standing Bear:

"True civilization lies in the dominance of self and not the dominance of other people ... Is not humanness a matter of heart and mind, and is it not evident in the form of relationships with people? Is not kindness more powerful than arrogance? And truth more powerful than the sword? .... I am going to venture that the man who sat on the ground in his tepee meditating on life and its meaning, accepting kinship with all of the creatures, and acknowledging unity with the universe of things, was infusing into his being the true essence of civilization. And when native people left off this form of development, their humanization was retarded in growth."

It seems that a number of people here have had some experience with the wanipi/sweat lodge/prayer tent. By the sounds, most people have had the opportunity through the goodness of the Lakota people, who have been more open to sharing it with non-Indian people than some other Indian peoples. That's nice. And good.

Most people on DU cannot go to a sweat lodge every week, or maybe very often. That could be for a variety of reasons, from living in the fast pace and confusion of the city, to simply not having been exposed to this wonderful ceremony.

However, we have the option of discussing some of the things that are important, whether you are crawling into a lodge, or coming out.

[mzmolly]

16. Wow, facinating. What was your experience like?

I found a bit of info here, but wouldn't know where to find such a place myself?

http://www.welcomehome.org/rob/sweat/sweat.html

I also googled for those interested in learning more along with me:

http://www.google.com/search?sourceid=navclient&q=sweat+lodge

[H2O Man]

17. Oh, it is always good

I always enjoy the ceremony. My physical problems do not allow me to do it all by myself anymore, so I need my cousin or my son to assist me. There are two communities that do sweats that are fairly close by, and I often have enjoyed participating with them. But I tend to be a solitary person, and prefer a nice lodge that one of my sons built me that is in a solitary part of my property.

I like sweats, because you can be of any religious/spiritual belief, and still be in the right place in a sweat lodge. It is, I suppose, a little like some religions, in that different people have their own symbols and their own rites .... that's good.

I'm at a point in life where I do not have that much contact with the outside world. I can walk to my lodge, and it is not visible to the outer world. It's a quiet place. Not very far away is a creek with clean water, including a beautiful water falls. I've found "artifacts" there that fit into the Lamoka cultural phase, dating about 2500bc. People were having sweats in this area (in the northeast) for that long. The "world" has changed, but the things like the rocks, the fire, the water, and even my lodge are about exactly the same as they were on a fall day 4500 years ago. The lodge allows me to understand that I am a human being, and that this is my turn to be alive, and that I am happy to be able to pour the water on those red-hot rocks and sing and pray. My cousin and I have been close friends since we were little, and it allows us an opportunity to share more time together. Never take your family and friends for granted. Nothing lasts forever, like the ancestors used to say, except the earth and sun.

[mzmolly]

18. Sounds most wonderful.

:) Thanks for sharing your experience.

[indigobusiness]

19. There is a short story,by Madison Smartt Bell called "A Good Day to Die"

It is one of the most beautiful things I've ever read, and puts into perspective the ethos and pathos of the struggle between red and white.

(The final story in a book called 'Zero db')

Hoka hey!

[H2O Man]

20. Not familiar with it

Not yet, I should say. Always looking for new things to read.

Holy jeepers, people are speaking Lakota! I feel like I'm outside of Ninevah .....

[indigobusiness]

21. I spanned time near Mandan NDakota, but I know one phrase

and that's all I need.

"Hoka Hey!"

[H2O Man]

22. The Original Instructions....

.... were given to all the different tribes of people on different parts of the earth long ago. They form the foundation of all of the great and small religions of our ancestors. There are obvious variations, because people who live in the arctic do not use the same symbols as those who live in the rain forest. But these Orignial Instructions were given to human beings for a divine purpose.

These instructions direct that we who take our turn walking upon the earth are to express a great respect and affection, and a gratitude for all of the spirits that create and support life. This includes giving a greeting and a thanksgiving to those many supporters of our own lives. These include the plants and animals, as well as clean air and clean water, and also the soil and the sun.

When human beings cease to respect these energies, and to consciously express gratitude for them, then they can withdraw their energy-giving abilities, and the life support-system can be destroyed to a point where human life comes to an end.

This is a lesson that takes on new meaning when one is inside a sweat lodge that is being run properly. I'm not sure if it translates so well over a computer screen. But if there is an interest in continueing with this, I believe it could be both interesting and beneficial.