So do you prefer THIS type of religious music, or gospel/hymns and all that?

[ButterflyBlood]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_YNtIKvt3Lo

If I ran a polling company I'd love to do a study on this and perhaps compare non-religious to fundies...

[tularetom]

1. I sort of prefer the African American genre of religious music

People actually seem like they're celebrating god instead of being scared shitless of him.

The music on that clip was crap, regardless of the message.

[TlalocW]

2. I agree with you

The best church service I ever went to was at a predominantly Black church in Kansas City. It was when I was in high school. Our minister thought since the youth group was heading to Kansas City, we should experience a different kind of church service than what he gave as we came from a small, lily-white farming community a couple hundred miles away, and he was good friends with the minister at that church.

Nowadays, I don't go to church services unless asked or paid to be there, and I really hate the rock band crap most big ones do now to appeal to the younger generation - half of them are more or less regular, modern rock songs re-written with Christian lyrics, and the other half bad Greenday-sounding rock-n-weep type ballads. I often feel sorry for the older generation who like to visit a little before the sermon starts but can't hear how Marge's arthritis is treating her this week because of the "musicians" on stage.

TlalocW

[ButterflyBlood]

16. May not like the music, but they're doing the same thing

n/t

[nebenaube]

3. I prefer these guys...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AfJEQNncW1Q

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B1GLxQWxAGM&feature=related

[nebenaube]

5. In Guatamaula...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6QgRsbS1JHM&NR=1

[Manifestor_of_Light]

4. That was just horrible.

If they are so "divinely inspired" why don't they write stuff as good as Mozart's stuff???

Christian rock is crap.

[raccoon]

33. ITA...Xian rock is crap. It's neither melodic nor memorable. The lyrics don't rhyme most of the

time and aren't memorable either.

Give me the old-fashioned hymns. In recent years I have come to appreciate them. Of course, not all of them are good, but I like a number of them.

[Manifestor_of_Light]

6. I prefer the stuff in Latin that was written for Catholics.

Masses by Beethoven, Mozart, Berlioz, Rachmaninoff, etc.

Stuff that is now only performed in concert halls.

[silverweb]

7. My submission:

Celebrating the Fabulous Sainthood of Justin Bond!

:evilgrin:

[Bladian]

8. I don't like the lyrics or message...

but if I have to listen to religious music, this is definitely the type I would pick. I listen to this anyway.

[struggle4progress]

9. ...

Ubi caritas
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q3gfIJeNojo

Be Thou my vision
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nIZei7Xi6i8

Eyes on the prize
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0ZWdDI_fkns

Halelya! Pelo tsa rona
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bmdws73CL3I

Put your hand in the hand
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eqMk3jdY550

The Virgin Mary had a baby boy
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TnMnMDasLxw

Pescador de hombres
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IEGeDEuYCK0

[RaleighNCDUer]

10. OK, I'm officially old. That was irritating, not least because I

couldn't understand a word, so I have no idea what your point is.

[JDPriestly]

11. I like the traditional sacred music -- Bach, Handel, Mendelssohn

and similar composers. That is the greatest music ever written -- especially Bach.

[madrchsod]

12. black or white gospel...

jimmy swaggart has one of the best gospel /rock and roll band ever.plus his piano playing is as good as his cousin jerry lee lewis. i prefer black gospel music.

[immoderate]

28. Right about Jimmy, that crazy fuck. But all I got to say is ...

Ray Charles!

-imm

[jeepnstein]

35. Here's how I prefer to roll.

http://youtu.be/mx3ej4ewkKw

[jeepnstein]

36. And we played this arrangement in Church last Sunday.

http://youtu.be/1BPoMIQHwpo

[immoderate]

44. Well it's not metal...

And for a NYC boy, I think I have a great tolerance for twang, even yodeling. I even like Slim Whitman!

This is a little "gospelly" for my taste, though I applaud your good works. I bet Ray would do it differently.

--imm

[ButterflyBlood]

47. I do NOT listen to metal

I find metal incredibly boring, I listen to hardcore which is very chaotic and loose, which is quite the opposite of metal. Most metal is very technical and tight, which is why I find it boring. It doesn't have the emotion of people playing and screaming like they're about to explode. Metal is not simply "loud and screamy music", in fact if "loud and screamy" is an accurate description, then it's most likely NOT metal, that's usually hardcore or an associated genre (like grindcore or powerviolence).

[dmallind]

13. Full Latin mass please - from ca. 1680 - 1900.

polyphony and the traditional 7 parts. All else is frippery. Bach to Bruckner.

[patrice]

43. I still have a soft-spot in my heart for a good Mass. I prefer the English, but love the

Gregorian Chant that we learned all through grade-school. Marching through all kinds of weather, over to the empty darkened church, and up the creaky OLD narrow wooden stairs to the choir-loft, high above the abandoned pews, so that we could practice where the acoustics were authentic, was quite an experience.

[ZombieHorde]

14. No mosh pit? WTF? There actually is a Christian rock band I really like.

They're called Swans. Some of it is like ambient music, but with heavy metal sounds.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mLq84I9WCvI&feature=related

[Iggo]

15. I prefer the big giant catholic music.

What can I say? Early imprint.

EDIT: Interestingly, my iPod tells me I also like the stuff from Oh Brother Where Art Thou, and also Elvis-type spiritual stuff. Still, a properly sung "Ave Maria" sends me to a special place.

[Manifestor_of_Light]

17. Gabriel Faure: Cantique de Jean Racine

One of the most gorgeous pieces of religious music ever written, when Faure was nineteen years old.
definitely up there with the Allegri Miserere.

I have sung this piece in English (It also has words in French and Latin).
Cantique de Jean Racine:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tzhBr1T-LHc

[ButterflyBlood]

18. See, to me this shit is so boring

That's why I hated church growing up. Plus there is no passion in it. I'm thinking of a church choir just standing there and everyone in their pews. That is so boring and saccharine. That applies just as much if not more so to all that Christian radio CCM type crap too obviously.

Now compare that to these guys for example:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wk2OLYK0yx4

Now you can clearly tell that THOSE guys have some passion even in that early video because they got huge and are now considered one of the best hardcore bands of the last decade, Christian or non-Christian (and even were a huge influence on many non-Christian bands). It is REALLY moving to be in the pit at this type of show. I know plenty of non-believers who even agree. It's the type of thing where you can be kicked in the stomach, hit in the face, or knocked to the floor or dropped, and not feel anything.

[Manifestor_of_Light]

19. That's total crap. Noise, not music.

There is passion in cantique de jean racine.
And there is harmonic movement. You just can't hear it. You seem to know nothing about melody and harmony.

Could you have written anything with that complexity when you were nineteen years old? Gabriel Faure did.

BTW, I hate the standard Protestant dirges like "A Mighty fortress is our God" or anything else by the Wesleys (founders of Methodism) or Martin Luther.
And I absolutely HATE Amazing Grace. I am NOT a wretch and neither is anyone else.

On edit: If you were in my hood, I would be blasting classical music from speakers to keep people who don't appreciate music away.

I know that if you blasted that so called "music" at a plant, it would die.
Plants die when exposed to heavy metal music.
Plant thrive when exposed to music by Mozart.
So you think that noise you call music is good for your nervous system??? :wtf:

[ButterflyBlood]

20. That's not heavy metal music, it's post-hardcore

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Post-hardcore

I don't even like heavy metal.

I'm not saying it boosts your nervous system, but that it is possible to be so caught up in the passion of it that you won't feel pain. I'm pretty sure if I went to a classical concert and started shoving people around, they'd feel it. And I would probably be ejected too.

And Guy Picciotto of Rites of Spring, one of the most influential bands of the style, was 19 when wrote most of the stuff on their absolutely classic first and only full length.

[Manifestor_of_Light]

21. Whatever it is, it has no melody and no harmony and no structure.

[Manifestor_of_Light]

24. Listen to the REAL Rite of Spring by Igor Stravinsky:

I am NOT impressed with the band Rites of Spring. All he does is yell angrily in a monotone. No melody there. :wtf:

Listen to some real genius, complexity by Stravinsky that was far ahead of its time. Written in 1913, no less!!! I played this piece in college in orchestra, and it is incredibly difficult and the time signatures change constantly:

Le Sacre du Printemps, Part I:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bjX3oAwv_Fs&feature=related

Part II:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vb8njeKBfqw&feature=related

Part III:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mK64sTi4mKc&feature=related


I'm probably wasting my time and effort anyway here.

[Lydia Leftcoast]

22. I can't stand Amazing Grace or Silent Night, and I am puzzled about why

those two are so popular. As a church choir member, I have to sing them occasionally, but I don't enjoy it.

But I absolutely love Renaissance and Tudor choral music. Done well, it is full of emotional power, written in an age when life was short and hard. It's amazing that they were able to create such ethereal beauty in an era that must have been hell to live through. Some of it is pretty lively, too. I've heard some spirited performances of Gibbons' "O Clap Your Hands," for example.

There's some wonderful contemporary choral music, too, and in the past few years of singing with an Episcopal cathedral choir, I've learned to appreciate the early 20th century British composers.

I don't mind rocking out--it's a way of forgetting your troubles-- but there are times when you need peace and beauty.

At the same time, I developed a liking for African-American gospel music when I spent a summer living next door to a black church. Our windows were open, their windows were open, and we'd groove on the sounds in the air.

But sometimes you need to slow down and contemplate and feel. I don't know whether it's a function of age or previous exposure to sophisticated music or what, but while rock makes me dance, only classical choral music can send chills down my spine.

[ButterflyBlood]

25. You're in a church choir? You should propose stuff like this

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xJYGpzYNJiA
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yXFgUKIFtr0

Youth might not find church so boring then, like I know I did growing up.

[Lydia Leftcoast]

29. There are different churches for different styles, and we have a non-traditional

service that attracts a lot of younger people---without a rock band or even guitars. There are ways to make church exciting and engaging without blasting down the walls. I agree that a lot of churches just go through the motions of a traditional service, and that is boring, but it can be quite involving if you get clergy who really know what they're doing.

Besides even though our music director did play jazz and pop in an earlier life, he's much more into classical. And the people who attend our church like it that way.

My argument with the megachurch approach of using rock music is that it appeals only to emotion, not to the intellect. It trains people to get high on superficial emotion instead of going at the deeper spiritual truths.

A letter to a local online news source hypothesized that one reason the current generation of young Republicans is so dogmatic is that they mostly grew up in the megachurches and learned to react with emotion instead of thought.

You can't rock out all the time.

[Manifestor_of_Light]

27. I can relate. I used to sing in church choirs.

Directed one, and played the piano and was music director in a unitarian fellowship. I could pick anything i wanted to that was appropriate. Didn't have that artificial distinction between sacred and secular.

I once sang in a large inner city UU church choir. For Valentine's Day we sang the Liebeslieder Waltzes (Brahms) in English.

John Rutter has written some pretty good stuff like "What sweeter music can we bring, than a carol for to sing".

Butterflyperson thinks that "Cantique de Jean Racine" by Gabriel Faure is "boring". I think it's a masterpiece, especially for a 19 year old. That puts him in the same league of being a prodigy as Felix Mendelssohn.

I can't stand Amazing Grace either and I think it's a real downer of a song. I can't understand whypeople like it, but for a lot of folks xtianity is a death cult.

I don't mind Silent Night.

So you're probably into Anonymous Four and The Tallis Scholars? I saw the Tallis Scholars in concert and they were heavenly.
I told one of the ladies that at my dad's funeral, they played music on a CD I picked out. One of them was the Nimrod Variation from the Enigma Variations by Sir Edward Elgar. The words were a Lux Aeternam, Requiem Aeternam. (Eternal Light, Eternal Rest).

The lady in the Tallis Scholars told me "you did right by your Father".

Later I cried thinking about that, that a member of one of the greatest, if not THE greatest choral group in the world was pleased with my musical selection. In England, they often sing that piece for Remembrance Day, which we know as Veteran's Day, originally Armistice Day.

Do you know about the Allegri Miserere? And the story that Mozart was a kid and he and Leopold went to Rome during Easter Week. They heard the choir at St. Peter's sing it. He memorized it, wrote it down, went back a couple of days later and checked his manuscript by listening to it again. This is documented in one of his letters home. The only time it was sung was twice during easter Week, once a year.

The music of the Allegri Miserere was so sensuous that the sheet music was not allowed to be copied, under pain of excommunication. It's a neat story.

The most interesting church music I sang was at a Methodist church that was really high church Episcopal. The minister would sing plainchant and we responded in Anglican chant (four part). I liked it b/c the music changed every week and we didn't sing the standard protestant dirges I can't stand.

I was told that there are more amateur choirs in Atlanta than anywhere else in the U.S. because Robert Shaw was the conductor of the Atlanta Symphony, and before that of course he was the most famous choral director in America.

[Lydia Leftcoast]

30. I'm getting ready to leave for a 3-week trip to Scandinavia, so I can't respond at length

but yeah, I think that "What Sweeter Music" is John Rutter's masterpiece, and I had no idea that Fauré was only 19 when he wrote the Cantique. My choir has sung the "In Paradisum" from his Requiem for a couple of funerals.

I love the Tallis Scholars and actually saw them in person in Minneapolis a few years ago, but I'm not that crazy about Anonymous 4.

My choir director is from England, and we do all the standard English repertoire, including choral evensong.

[Lydia Leftcoast]

23. Hey, there's a lot of territory BETWEEN "non-religious" and "fundies"

I like good music, which most of the contemporary Christian stuff isn't.

[ButterflyBlood]

26. I know, I lay between that territory too

I just thought it was an interesting comparison because of people who would disagree with the message versus people who would assume "EVIL DEVIL MUSIC" or whatever for anything of that style.

I don't like contemporary Christian music at all either. My rule is basically that I won't listen to any Christian music unless it inspires me to jump into a crowd of people shoving each other around. The only band that wouldn't apply to is Mineral but they weren't exactly Christian...

[Lydia Leftcoast]

31. We were discussing musical styles at lunch on Sunday

(myself, another choir member, and a deacon assigned to our parish), and the deacon pointed out that there was a problem with the megachurch approach to music, namely, that the experience tended to center on making the congregation have a good time instead of worshiping God.

I mean, if you want to jump into a crowd of people shoving each other around, that's not worship; that's a mosh pit.

[ButterflyBlood]

34. There is no reason you can't worship in a mosh pit

There was a time in high school I remember when I came back from a show incredibly sweaty and obviously exhausted and aching all over. I fell on the couch as soon as I walked in the door. That wasn't an uncommon even then or now, but that time I had actually gone to a Christian hardcore show. My mom for once noticed how sweaty and exhausted I was and asked how I could possibly put myself through such a thing, and I pointed out that I didn't feel any of that while I was there because I had felt moved by the Spirit and this is something that had NEVER happened to me during any of the Catholic masses she forced me to in my youth and that I refuse to attend to this day. I also pointed out that this style of worship took a lot more devotion than simply standing up and down and kneeling in a pew repeatedly. She admitted that she couldn't argue with that.

As someone said in a last.fm community: "Why such distortion, fast tempo and shrieking? Is screaming and making extreme music Godly? The Bible says "Praise him with clanging cymbals; praise him with loud clashing cymbals!" Psalms 150:5"

For the record, the way I've felt in a pit applies for all the secular bands too that I've done that while seeing, but I think that just gets the point across that this isn't just people wanting to act like drunk spring breakers at Cancun or whatever (even if they are drunk), when I'm in there it's like the pain and exhaustion doesn't matter and I just want to celebrate whatever it is we are forever, like their message (thinking of all the anti-Republican bands and benefits for Obama I went to, and progressive political ones to this day), or simply our togetherness (You really feel this at a DIY fest, or a show where people came from all over, and where no one's really doing it for the money just because there isn't a lot there), but also in some cases God. And actually in some instances even all of the above at once.

[kwassa]

42. Do you realize that the church organ was the original power instrument?

Before electronic amplification, the loudest instruments in existence were the big church organs. They were meant to inspire awe, and they did. Listen to some of the Bach organ fugues.

I learned to love classical music by turning it up REALLY LOUD. Some of the stuff really rocks, too, and makes me want to get up and dance.

There is great and terrible music in every genre of music. Some styles appeal to me more than others; I am not much of a fan of most hard rock styles anymore, though there are exceptions. I have sung in Episcopal church choirs, a huge mass choir in a New Age church singing in a gospel style, and in a chorale supporting an orchestra performing major choir works.

I am not as nearly as knowledgeable as either Lydia or Manifestor on classical music. My own tastes, however, are very broad, listening to many different world music styles as well as folk and traditional American music styles. The ones I listen the most to now are jazz, blues, classical and Latin, Caribbean and African styles like salsa, merengue, zouk, soukous, etc.

What I hearing from you is that you feel a spiritual connection in the mosh pit brought about by the music and the physical experience of it. I find this appealing, too, but probably not in a mosh pit. I sometimes think I could be a good Pentacostalist because I like to get up and dance, and express worship physically, though I am sure I couldn't stand the theology.

This is a problem in most more traditional churches, and I agree with you there. At the same time, I love many of the really old church hymns. I think there are many different ways to worship, and they work well for different people.

[backscatter712]

32. BLEARGH!!! I absolutely can't stand Christian Rock.

Rock music is much more fun when it's blasphemous!

[patrice]

38. Christianity de-balls Rock. I can't stand Christian Rock either. It's not really Free!!! nt

[patrice]

37. I'm a Kirtan fan. Go to Snatam Kaur's website for streamed examples.

Have recently found a LOCAL Kirtan band though and I will be trying to keep up with them wherever they go.

[patrice]

41. Link:

http://www.snatamkaur.com/web7.html

[Manifestor_of_Light]

46. Kaur: Not remotely in the same league as Ravi Shankar.

His daughter Anoushka Shankar plays traditional Indian ragas, like Ravi does. He's 90 now.
His daughter Norah Jones has gone in a pop direction.

So Ravi is now no longer "The guy who taught George Harrison the sitar", he is "Norah Jones' dad".

How times change!! :rofl:

[patrice]

39. Poor musicianship. nt

[patrice]

40. These guys are so juiced on their own biochemical feedback loops that they could be called addicts.

[Deep13]

45. Hymns, classical compositions.

Christian rock just seems like a laughable concept to me.

[uberllama42]

48. Being from New Jersey, this is my favorite Gospel performance of all time

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tebjshm7f_I