Religion is attempting to rewrite history as it happens. Where are the "moderates" crying foul?

[cleanhippie]

It was an odd moment for Hillary Clinton to leave the room.

Yet, according to a photograph published last week, the US Secretary of State mysteriously disappeared just as Barack Obama and his national security team watched the deadly raid on Osama bin Laden.

Perhaps she ducked out to fetch a round of coffees for her colleagues. After all, as a woman, that’s the only job she is really qualified to fill.

According to Der Zeitung, the New York-based Hasidic newspaper that felt compelled to doctor the famous photo, neither Clinton nor national director of counterterrorism Audrey Tomason had any business being there.

Both women were airbrushed from view to appease readers of the weekly newspaper, a publication aimed at ultra-Orthodox Jews whose religious sensibilities are seemingly too delicate to tolerate even a glimpse of the fairer sex.

“Because of laws of modesty, we are not allowed to publish pictures of women,” Der Zeitung later clarified in a statement.

And so, with a click of the mouse, a defining moment in history was casually distorted, and one of the most powerful women in the world rendered invisible.

Just one more example of what people think they can get away with if a higher power is in their corner. Who cares about facts when you have religion on your side?

Few organisations advocate sheer intolerance and prejudice as effectively as religion. And while the extremist views of certain faiths are better documented than others, all entail a degree of misplaced superiority.

http://blogs.news.com.au/dailytelegraph/sarrahlemarquand/index.php/dailytelegraph/comments/keep_religion_out_of_public_education/

--------------------------------------------------------

We keep hearing that evangelicals and fundamentalists (oxymoron?) are just a small minority. If that is the case, where is the outrage by the "moderates" about this despicable attempt to rewrite history because of "religious values"? From what I see, mostly the only ones crying foul are non-believers....

[Angry Dragon]

1. non-believers just believe in something else

[xfundy]

3. Reality?

[Ninjaneer]

5. Reality

doesn't require belief.

Not believing in gravity has never worked out well for anyone.

[Angry Dragon]

9. I was thinking more along the lines of truth and facts

They question things

[cleanhippie]

13. That a belief?

[Angry Dragon]

14. Do you believe in truths and facts??

[Ninjaneer]

18. Maybe I am reading post #1 wrong but,

"non-believers just believe in something else"

Are you putting belief in god(s) on the same level as belief in facts and truths?

[Angry Dragon]

20. There are all kinds of levels in the belief in god(s)

Most believers feel that their religion helps them live in the secular world.
Fundies feel that there should be no secular world and only a religious world.

We all live by beliefs, there is just some beliefs that do not include a god.

[Ninjaneer]

23. See post #22 and #5

and try again.

[provis99]

22. Truth and facts do not need to be believed in.

People either accept reality, or they dont. Belief is irrelevant.

[cleanhippie]

24. No, but I do accept as true, facts that are supported by evidence.

[Ninjaneer]

7. What would that be? eom

[Angry Dragon]

12. See reply #9

[cleanhippie]

11. Such as?

Please elaborate, Im all ears...

[Deep13]

21. That's outside the scope of the OP. nt

[TZ]

62. Really? Would you like to tell me what exactly I believe or don't beleive

Since you like so many in R/T seem to know exactly how every single atheist thinks or believes. Sorry, I left my atheists bible somewhere else today....

[CBGLuthier]

2. Outrage because Hasidim are predjudiced against women?

Why waste the energy. Nothing will change them. What exactly could come of this outrage you desire?

[cleanhippie]

4. Perhaps you missed this part:

Just one more example of what people think they can get away with if a higher power is in their corner. Who cares about facts when you have religion on your side?

Few organisations advocate sheer intolerance and prejudice as effectively as religion. And while the extremist views of certain faiths are better documented than others, all entail a degree of misplaced superiority.



I am speaking about the bigger picture here, and this event is merely just another example. If you do not see the point, so be it.

[pnwmom]

8. So you want people who believe in any religion

to speak out against their own intolerance, prejudice, and sense of "misplaced superiority."

I'd say that is about as likely as atheists decrying their own intolerance, prejudice, and sense of misplaced superiority.

[cleanhippie]

10. Are you really trying to equate a lack of belief with an organized religious structure?

You let me know when a group of atheists organize and then start telling people how to live, and that if they don't accept it, then you will suffer for eternity.
You let me know when a group of atheists organize and espouse the qualities of misogyny, intolerance and hate.
You let me know when a group of atheists organize and use their lack of belief to pass legislation intended to suppress religious freedom and advance their own ideological agenda at the expense of all other groups.
You let me know....oh, you get the point. Or do you?

[Ninjaneer]

19. Shit! is that sound reasoning and logic?

:yoiks:

[pnwmom]

33. Of course not. You don't need an organized structure

for your beliefs, or lack thereof, in order to display intolerance, prejudice, and a sense of "misplaced superiority."

That is demonstrated here on DU every day.

[cleanhippie]

39. Really? This I gotta see!

Can you post to a few of these intolerant posts? I would love to read them, and if they are as you say, intolerant, I will help rebuke the poster with you.

[Ninjaneer]

6. "Why waste the energy. Nothing will change them."

Oh man, think of how far humanity would be as a race if we'd always had this fantastic attitude. :sarcasm:

[rug]

15. Responding to atheists about whether beliefs are worthy of respect.

Meanwhile, these people are laughing at the spectacle.

Divide and conquer is an effective tactic.

[Name removed]

42. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[rug]

52. There is no need to challenge nonbelievers.

But I'm polite enough to respond.

[darkstar3]

57. But not polite enough to reply with much else but insult.

I gotta say, "polite" is not a word I would associate with your posts.

[struggle4progress]

16. I doubt Tzitung had much effect, given the size of the NY media market, since the

paper has a tiny circulation. Tzitung did manage to gain worldwide ridicule for this silliness -- as you could have verified by a quick news search -- and Tzitung apologized last week for violating use-rules on White House photo releases

[laconicsax]

17. It has limited circulation, so it doesn't matter?

:shrug:

[struggle4progress]

25. I try to maintain a sense of proportion. Tzitung has a circulation that's not even 0.1%

of the top five NYC dailies; they're a little droplet in the stream of print gushing from NYC news stands; I'd bet a year of Tzitung issues didn't use as much paper as one Sunday NYT. None of us ever even heard of this paper until this story. Tzitung got thoroughly slammed by papers around the world, over a week ago, as a result of this, and they apologized over a week ago

Frankly, I'm much more concerned by the frequent biases, omissions, and misrepresentations of big media

[cleanhippie]

26. You make a good point, but it is irrelevant to the OP and the point being made.

This is what we are talking about here.

And so, with a click of the mouse, a defining moment in history was casually distorted, and one of the most powerful women in the world rendered invisible.

Just one more example of what people think they can get away with if a higher power is in their corner. Who cares about facts when you have religion on your side?

Few organisations advocate sheer intolerance and prejudice as effectively as religion. And while the extremist views of certain faiths are better documented than others, all entail a degree of misplaced superiority.


This is yet another attempt by religion to rewrite history and to shape news for its followers that seem to align with its teachings. This is dishonest at best.

[struggle4progress]

27. Write to the paper and threaten to cancel your subscription. Nobody forces you to read it.

By the way, is it written in Hebrew or is it written in Yiddish using Hebrew letters?

[cleanhippie]

28. So you are continuing to choose NOT to discuss the point being made?

You just want to continue to try and make it seem like a small, isolated incident by a small group of fundamentalists?

Got it.

[laconicsax]

29. It's his "take." n/t

[struggle4progress]

56. Yer a tad bit slow on th'draw thar, pard: hundreds of papers denounced Tzitung's edit a week before

you first posted. And we'd all seen the original photo dozens of times before any of us ever heard of Tzitung

The media coverage interests me for a different reason: we'll hear a lot of noise about the filtering edit by a tiny paper, that most of us will never hear of again, but the real filtering slides by unnoticed. Why there are only two women in that room? Women have had the vote nearly a century now, but they're still not equitably represented in the corridors of power

[cleanhippie]

66. You seem to be having a speech problem. You ok?

I give it to you, that was a good return to the point, and you do make a good one about the disparity of gender in power. Why did you have to go off topic and waste so many posts getting to that point?

[Manifestor_of_Light]

55. I assume their circ is much less than the Jewish Daily Forward, for instance.

:shrug:

[dimbear]

30. Correct. They are required by their religion to portray no women.

In the future I expect all such photos to show a blackout shape resembling the cartoon character "The Phantom."

At least that will admit women exist.

[humblebum]

31. "Few organisations advocate sheer intolerance and prejudice as effectively as religion."

I wonder if organized atheism is being included in that group?

[cleanhippie]

32. Funny thing is, I wondered whether you would respond or not, and if you would stay on topic

Or try to deflect the attention to some imaginary boogeyman.

And you came through with flying colors.

[humblebum]

34. When an atheist is making such a statement, it is a very valid point,

and very much on topic, since the topic at hand concerns intolerance. I merely asked if atheism was included in that group.

[cleanhippie]

37. Dance, dance, dance......dancing machine!

[humblebum]

40. to the same tired song you keep playin' over and over and over and

over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and

over and
over and
over and
over and

over and
over and


over and over and

over and







over and

over and







over and over and

[darkstar3]

41. Yeah, because HE'S the one spinnin' that old record.

[cleanhippie]

45. Its funny to watch it try and turn the attention away from itself. It thinks its being clever.

[humblebum]

54. I'm glad you agree. nt

[LAGC]

43. When a disciple of Richard Dawkins knocks on my door and shoves atheist tracts in my face...

I might start growing concerned.

[struggle4progress]

48. Are lots of hasidim knocking at your door trying to convert you?

[LAGC]

50. Nope, just Mormons and Jehovah's Witnesses mainly.

But if I lived in New York, I'd probably be more apt to run into them.

If its not one sect, its another...

[humblebum]

51. Historically, when atheists come to the door it's in the middle of the night

and they don't leave tracts, you just kinda disappear.

[LAGC]

53. Good thing I keep a gun under the pillow.

Just in case I need to dispatch a marauding atheist straight to Hades.

:evilgrin:

[darkstar3]

58. I don't visit people in the middle of the night,

and no one has ever disappeared after I've come to their door, for dinner or holidays or what have you.

Just how much do I and my fellow atheists scare you, bum? Are we ALL you can think about?

[humblebum]

59. Actually, I thought it was quite apropos, since we are in the mood

for broadbrushing here. After all, study of radical atheism does point to the commonality of such behavior, i.e. in China (possibly our soon-to-be overlords and homies of Hawking).

[darkstar3]

63. Boo!

[Ninjaneer]

64. May we see this "study",

along with what exactly "radical" atheism is?

Just trying to see if I'm a "radical" Aunicornian, or Atoothfairian.

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

61. Wow.

Just wow.

[cleanhippie]

65. Wow, you are really losing it.

You really should seek some help.

[humblebum]

68. Speaking of needing help. I am not the one

who spends his entire free time making anti-religious rants on a website. Care to guess how many times your's are listed at present? I'm just sayin'.

[cleanhippie]

69. No, you are just the one one who spends his entire free time making asinine comments

to me, which makes you even more pathetic, no?

Pot, meet kettle.

[Ninjaneer]

67. Hello again, Mr. Wolf

:hi:

[Odin2005]

35. The Hasidics are a fucking cult and a misogynistic hate group.

[laconicsax]

36. Read: religious sect.

[cleanhippie]

38. Whats the difference between a cult and a religion?

Some might say its simply the size of the congregation.

[sakabatou]

44. At least on here, we cried foul

[cleanhippie]

46. Hmm, maybe I'm not seeing what you are seeing.

In this thread, several posters have tried to derail to conversation away from the OP instead of crying foul.


The only crying I see is that of the persecution complex.

[sakabatou]

47. Not in this thread per se, but others I saw

Or on youtube

[cleanhippie]

49. I guess I must have missed it then.

I rarely, if ever, see it.

[KaoriMitsubishi]

60. "...whose religious sensibilities are seemingly too delicate..."

I thought religion was supposed to make one stronger. Seems to me it makes its victims - err - adherants weaker, like a viral infection.