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Angry Dragon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-30-10 11:35 AM
Original message
According to the Bible
Edited on Fri Jul-30-10 11:49 AM by Angry Dragon
There is the Father, Son, and Holy Ghost.

The question being what were you taught the purpose of the Holy Ghost was??

Edited to add a little background

I was taught that the Holy Ghost came unto you with the option to believe.
Without it you could not believe.
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thereismore Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-30-10 11:38 AM
Response to Original message
1. Actually, your premise is only true in the New Testament. nt
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Axle_techie Donating Member (378 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-30-10 11:38 AM
Response to Reply #1
2. which is part of the Bible
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Angry Dragon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-30-10 11:40 AM
Response to Reply #1
3. Did Jesus exist in the Old Testament??
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elleng Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-30-10 12:04 PM
Response to Reply #3
12. No; that's why its 'Old!'
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elocs Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-30-10 12:44 PM
Response to Reply #3
17. John 8:58: Jesus said to them, "Truly, truly, I say to you, before Abraham was born, I am."
http://bible.cc/john/8-58.htm

Jamieson-Fausset-Brown Bible Commentary

58. Before Abraham was, I am-The words rendered "was" and "am" are quite different. The one clause means, "Abraham was brought into being"; the other, "I exist." The statement therefore is not that Christ came into existence before Abraham did (as Arians affirm is the meaning), but that He never came into being at all, but existed before Abraham had a being; in other words, existed before creation, or eternally (as Joh 1:1). In that sense the Jews plainly understood Him, since "then took they up stones to cast at Him," just as they had before done when they saw that He made Himself equal with God (Joh 5:18)
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laconicsax Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-30-10 05:32 PM
Response to Reply #17
21. So that part's meant to be taken literally, right?
I'm trying to make a list of which parts are literal and which parts are metaphorical. This is a big help, thanks.
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elocs Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-30-10 05:50 PM
Response to Reply #21
22. Jesus basically claimed to be God, that's why they wanted to stone him. n/t
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Critters2 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-30-10 11:45 AM
Response to Reply #1
9. When Job says to God "I know that my Redeemer lives", he's referring to the Paraclete.
The Holy Spirit.
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thereismore Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-30-10 02:33 PM
Response to Reply #9
20. And you know that how. Also, Satan talks to God in Job and he is not the same
person as Devil. That's a much later interpretation, and I am guessing so is the Paraclete. Is that a name from the Septuagint? Sure sounds Greek. Interpretation, interpretation.
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Axle_techie Donating Member (378 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-30-10 11:40 AM
Response to Original message
4. Holy ghost/spirit (depending on sect)
Is to be a guide, allowing us to interpret what God wants. Works like a conscience when needed, and a translator when you don't understand. That is what I was taught.
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cleanhippie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-30-10 12:04 PM
Response to Reply #4
13. Do you still believe that?
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leftofcool Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-30-10 12:09 PM
Response to Reply #13
16. My spirit guide does the same thing and I can tell her to STFU.
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Axle_techie Donating Member (378 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-30-10 01:03 PM
Response to Reply #13
18. Sort of, my beliefs are unique to me
and I make it a point to not engage in in-depth internet discussions about them.
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cleanhippie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-30-10 01:19 PM
Response to Reply #18
19. So you are willing to engage enough to give your opinion on what something means
but unwilling to explain why. Got it. Thanks.
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Axle_techie Donating Member (378 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-30-10 08:16 PM
Response to Reply #19
23. No, I am willing enough to answer a question that someone asked
Edited on Fri Jul-30-10 08:17 PM by Axle_techie
about a basic premise of Christian faith, but unwilling to go into my personal beliefs, built from a life of experience, with someone I don't know and am not talking to face to face. I don't like discussing personal things in an impersonal environment.

Suffice it to say that I believe in heaven and hell, Jesus, God, the Holy spirit, etc... I just don't believe the traditional way, and also realize that the bible was written and translated by man and as such is a fallible text.
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Curmudgeoness Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-30-10 11:42 AM
Response to Original message
5. If I can remember correctly, the Holy Ghost was the part of god
that resided in you when you accepted Jesus as the son of god. It was your guide through life, your guardian angel, the part of your conscience that lead you in the right direction.

But then again, I was raised United Presbyterian. They don't even exist anymore.
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Critters2 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-30-10 11:46 AM
Response to Reply #5
10. They're part of the Presbyterian Church USA. nt
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Curmudgeoness Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-30-10 12:08 PM
Response to Reply #10
15. Well, kind of. But not quite. At least in my area, the UPs became
just "Presbyterians". And if you were ever at a UP church, you will know that there is a world of difference. The UPs were always so uptight and stoic. Now, the same churches are singing and dancing. Not the same old church. LOL, the UPs were really screwed up.
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Critters2 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-31-10 11:38 PM
Response to Reply #15
25. The United Presbyterian Church merged with the Presbyterian Church in the US
to become the Presbyterian Church USA.
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grantcart Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-30-10 11:43 AM
Response to Original message
6. "according to the Bible" are you sure?

The concept of the "Holy Trinity" is a theological concept not a Biblical concept.

It was confirmed into orthodoxy 300 years after Jesus at the Council of Nicaea.

It necessitated the origination of the Nicene Creed so that it could build a wall an keep unorthodox followers outside of the Church

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_Council_of_Nicaea#The_Nicene_Creed

The biblical foundation for the Holy Spirit is found primarily in the book of Acts.
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Critters2 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-30-10 11:45 AM
Response to Reply #6
8. The concept of the Trinity is found throughout the Johannine material. nt
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grantcart Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-30-10 12:07 PM
Response to Reply #8
14. True and John is fundamentally a theological book and not a narrative like the synoptic gospels.

The reported actions of the 'Holy Spirit' which serve the foundation for its involvement in the Trinity are exclusively (almost exclusively?) in the book of Acts. The "Holy Spirit" is a post resurrection event and occurs after the period of the synoptic gospels.

The fact that it is not a clearly defined Biblical event doesn't mean that it isn't an important theological issue. If it weren't ambiguious it wouldn't have been such a major conflict in the early church and there wouldn't have been a need to have a creed and get rid of the gnostics.

My basic original point is that OP assumes that he knows what is in the Bible rather than actually studying the Bible. The is eisogesis and not exogesis and explains the fundamentally skewed and ultra conservative nature of large parts of the church today.
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Critters2 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-30-10 11:44 AM
Response to Original message
7. The Holy Spirit stands with us in difficult times, advocating for us
when we are the victim of scapegoating violence or other trials. The Paraclete is the way we feel God's presence in everyday life.
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golddigger Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-01-10 09:54 AM
Response to Reply #7
26. " Holy Ghost Dove" drops a load
crap on my truck every morning. Does that mean that God's upset with me?
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xchrom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-30-10 12:03 PM
Response to Original message
11. ...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holy_Spirit

this is probably filled with bias -- but it's a rough start describing how different people see the holy spirit.

being episcopal -- i lean in that direction.
and what is in the book of common prayer.

there is a rational view and an emotional view of the holy spirit that is noted on the wiki page.
i'm old enough to have see the rift between these two grow -- there was little of the emotional view when i was growing up.
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Igel Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-31-10 07:40 PM
Response to Original message
24. My sect was non-Trinitarian.
The spirit of God was the anthropomorphized force and will of God, not a "person" or independent entity.

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saltpoint Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-01-10 11:21 AM
Response to Original message
27. I never put much stock in the idea of
the Holy Ghost.

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sakabatou Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-02-10 01:08 PM
Response to Reply #27
28. So is Space Ghost a better idea?
:evilgrin:
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saltpoint Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-02-10 08:22 PM
Response to Reply #28
29. Hi, sakabatou. Hell, I suppose it could be.
I've read learned theologians make a go of explaining the Holy Ghost and am yet to feel they have a clue. Maybe they do, but it doesn't translate into explanation.

It's a belief in a particular kind of trinity, which I liken to someone with odd tastes in shishkabobs.
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dimbear Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-08-10 09:34 PM
Response to Original message
30. While the Holy Spirit has many functions, the main one is
providing an opportunity to commit a sin which cannot be forgiven. All the usual crimes and blasphemies that folks like to indulge are forgivable; garden variety things like murder and rape, for instance. But the Holy Spirit sets the bar high, for the Bible assures us that blaspheming against the Holy Spirit is unforgivable.

It may well be that this is merely being gentlemanly, since the Holy Spirit is generally considered to be feminine.

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