The Jews that I've known did not concern themselves with Heaven or Hell.

[heidler1]

In fact it seemed to me that prayer was to show faith to God and live by God's laws so they would not be punished, but would be rewarded in business, war, fishing, planting and nearly everything.

[Ken Burch]

1. Alerted

:popcorn:

[Meshuga]

7. ??? - n/t

[ContinentalOp]

2. Heil heidler

[Hekate]

3. IBTL: Judaism is a THIS-world religion, focused on righteous behavior in the Here and Now...

... not in some life-to-come. Christians may get pie in the sky when they die, but Jews are enjoined to behave righteously in this lifetime for the sake of behaving righteously.

Mind your ignorance.

Hekate

[aquart]

4. Precisely.

We don't have to be bribed with heaven or threatened with hell in order to do a decent thing.

[still_one]

5. Absolutely. It is not to concern oneself with the afterlife, but living a good life

here and now, and not because of some reward

[Meshuga]

8. This Jew also agrees

Our concern is not with heaven or hell but with what is said in our obituaries.

[Meshuga]

9. I agree with you

But there are God fearing Jews who do things out of guilt and fear of punishment (even if the punishment is in this world). In other words, what heidler1 said is not ignorance but his observation from what he has seen.

For example, go to an Ultra-Orthodox community and you will see rabbis telling kids that parents will pay for all sins commited by a kid before his bar mitzvah.

[heidler1]

18. I'm an Atheist and I was not faulting the way Jews practice their faith.

It was prompted by my experiences versus what Christians seem to believe is true. Actually the Jewish way makes better sense to me.

My eldest son married a Jewish woman and he went through the conversion, which was fine with me. They've been together about 30 years.

[JerseygirlCT]

20. Yes.

that's what I've seen as well. And as a Christian (with Jewish family members), I definitely see how it can be hard to break out of the traditional behave or be punished mindset (not one I hold to myself - I think it's a human tendency overlaid on and to an extent harmful to, our relationship with God).

There is something very pure about doing right for the sake of doing right.

[no_hypocrisy]

6. My mother was in the last throes of lung cancer and asked me where did I think

we went after we died. Being Jewish and knowing tradition, I extended the beliefs to "wherever we were before we were born". She liked that a lot and I think it gave her comfort.

[Meshuga]

10. There is no dogma about an afterlife

So some Jews don't believe in an afterlife, others believe in an afterlife, others in reincarnation, etc. But no eternal suffering or anything of that sort. However, the main focus in Judaism is this world (not an next world) and bringing tikkun olam through mitzvot.

And a very important goal is making Judaism survive.

[Hekate]

13. You said it much better than I did, Meshuga. nt

[Mosby]

15. there is some commentary about Olam Ha-Ba in the Tanach

and the Talmud.

[Meshuga]

16. Sure

The bible and rabbinical literature enable Jews to choose their beliefs. And the literature includes ideas like Olam Haba, Gehinom, Gan Eden, etc. So, like I said, there are Jews who believe in an afterlife, punishment, and redemption, etc. and there are those who don't. And it does not matter whether Jews believe in this stuff or not because the point in Judaism is following Torah since Torah is (supposed to be) a set of instructions for Jews to live a Jewish life. Not a set of required beliefs.

Olam Haba was used in the Talmud several times to criticize opposing Jewish sects (like the priestly class) who did not accept the oral law and did not believe in a "next world." As well as all those who threatened the pharisaic way of life.

But even when these concepts are part of an individual's belief, they are not like the conventional heaven and hell we learn about from the Christian understanding of heaven and hell.

Reincarnation is part of Judaism too as authoritative commentators like Nachmanides and works like the Zohar and Sefer Ha-Bahir make it part of Judaism.

Regardless, Following mitzvot (in this world) is what matters. The rest is just a carrot at the end of the stick that have been used to make Jews follow Torah. Like the coming of a messiah and/or the promise of a messianic age.

[JoDog]

11. As my Rabbi once said

"We take things one world at a time."

[JerseygirlCT]

21. I like that! nt

[edhopper]

12. The Jews I've known

are mainly concerned with what's for dinner and if there will be cake after.

[TZ]

14. !

I can say from personal experience...THATS SO TRUE...:rofl: :thumbsup:

[Meshuga]

17. I agree

That was very good and I am going to steal that from edhoper and use it as my own when the chance arrives.

[edhopper]

19. It's not really mine.

It's a variation on an old Jackie Mason joke.

[Iggo]

22. Some of my best friends are Jews. (n/t)