How should I have responded?

[Orrex]

The church at the end of my block has a large parking lot where I take my two young sons to ride their bikes. We do this several times each week, and we have permission to be there, straight from the (quite cool) family of the pastor. Tonight while we were there, an older woman parked and stopped to chat on her way into the church for some kind of weekly social function. She was friendly, commenting on my two-year-old's adroit handling of his Big-Wheel, and we talked about the upcoming book sale.

Then she asked if we are members of the church--an entirely fair question, given the context. I replied that we are not, and she said "we'd love to have you." I thanked her but clarified that we aren't looking to join a church, and she repeated that they'd love to have us.

I smiled and told her that we aren't of strong faith, the euphemism I employ in place of "we're atheists."

"That's all right," she said. "We'd still love to have you."

At that, I smiled again and told her I'd think it over. "But no promises," I said.

Then another member of her social group showed up, and she bade me good evening and went into the church.

Throughout the exchange her tone was light and friendly, but the whole thing left me wondering once again how I might have responded better.


Since we were in the church's parking lot, I don't fault her for inviting us, but I'm a little miffed that I had to give her the brush-off not once but three times. How might I have responded in a way that would have made my point quickly but without seeming rude or offensive?


The demographics of my town and county put me very much in the minority, and I know from multiple experiences that revealing my atheism will only earn me a look of indulgent pity and a long discussion about God's grandeur etc.

Basically, I'm looking for a polite, concise way to say "no, thank you. I'm not interested, and please stop pestering me about it."


What do you suggest?

[msongs]

1. your response was fine. no point in wasting hers and your time nt

[MadMaddie]

2. I think you did just fine. You weren't rude as a matter of fact

you were very polite.

As long as you use their parking lot they will pester you.

Only other thing to do is find somewhere else for your kids to ride....

[Orrex]

5. No can do

The lot offers a speed bump, a drainage grate, and a sort of overhanging entryway that my kids call The Tunnel. All of these are unequaled for bike/Big-Wheel coolness in their minds, so the lot will be our prime destination for some time to come!

But I suspect you're right; while I'm on their turf, I can hardly complain about their invitation.

[Lasher]

3. I think you played it about right.

You were right to be patient.

[Orrex]

6. Thanks for the reassurance!

I feared that declining her repeated invitation might have made me seem like an ass.

[JerseygirlCT]

26. I don't think so, as long as it all remains pleasant

eventually she should get the idea!

[Kerrytravelers]

4. Honestly, as an agnostic myself, I think you did the most polite thing possible.

She wasn't being aggressive, but just nice. Sometimes, people don't necessarily pick up on hints we give. She may be hard of hearing, or perhaps (and I hate to say this, but the intention isn't cruel,) perhaps she just isn't as quick on the draw when being given hints.

When someone starts the whole "You have to be saved" speech, then that is aggressive if they don't stop when asked. But I don't think her motivations were aggressive.

[raccoon]

22. Or she may be controlling. IME, when people ask the same thing over and over, or

say the same thing over and over, they are frequently trying to control you.

[Silent3]

7. You should have said flat out that you're atheists...

...and then you should have asked her if she had any grandchildren that you could eat. :evilgrin:



On a more serious note... sounds like you did just fine as is.

[Orrex]

9. If this had happened *before* dinner, maybe I would have replied that way

Her grandkids should consider themselves lucky!

[saltpoint]

8. In my opinion the woman was too busy proselytizing to see that the real

church was the parent who brings young people to ride bikes during free hours.

THAT's the church.

You handled her just fine. It sounds like some top-drawer parenting, too.

[Orrex]

10. At least, I *think* they were my kids

They were approximately the right size and shape, at any rate.


Thanks for the answer and the kind words!

[pepperbear]

11. of course your answer was fine, but I did think of another way to play it....

The first time she offered "We'd love to have you." I would have said, with a beautiful smile on my face, "Thank You so Much for that kind thought." I wouldn't have said anything about a church at all. That way, the only way for her to continue would have been to pry, and that would be impolite.

Just my take.

[Kali]

13. Excellent!

[Kali]

12. I don't like to enter church property, always worry I migh catch on fire

or be struck by lightening.:rofl:

kidding (sort of) - I think you handled it fine, I wouldn't have even said I would consider it - that could be an invitation to more pestering.

[CoffeeCat]

14. Hey, I understand...

I live in the suburbs, and I'm definitely in the minority--because I'm not a church-going, Bible-believing woman.

My own spirituality is an ever-evolving process. I was highly indoctrinated into the Catholic religion--decades
of private school--the whole shebang. I've slowly evolved into a skeptic who believes that most organized
religion, although not inherently harmful--is all made up stuff. I do have problems with judgmental Fundies,
religious people who voted for (and still justify) Bush's actions and the anti-science nutjobs.

For the most part though--I think many people attending church, are decent, normal, kind people. I don't think they're
in-your-face and I think many of them question church doctrine, the meaning of life and they have the same questions
that most agnostics and atheists do. They just have arrived at different conclusions.

I think many people do church for the social aspect. They want to belong to something, do volunteer work, help others
and feel a sense of community. I found another atheist in my suburb, and she belongs to a local church--because she loves
how they help out the poor and needy--and she's on several committees. Another skeptic friend belongs for the friendship
and also because she has two teenage daughters and she loves the other kids in the youth program. These other friends
have helped her daughter through some rough time in junior high.

I think it's possible that "We'd love to have you" might have been a social call rather than a "We'd love you to drop your evil ways
and come on over to the truth". After all, you told her no a couple of times, and she probably assumed you weren't religious
or were disinterested in joining a church. Yet, she said you were welcome anyway.

I would be flattered if I were you, and I wouldn't rule out this woman as a good and kind person who just thought you were
a nice person and a cool mom who loves having fun with her kids!

:)

[Orrex]

24. I prefer to think of myself as a cool dad, rather than a cool mom

But I appreciate the sentiment!

I should underscore again that she was entirely pleasant during our brief interaction; it was only the triple repetition that made me uneasy. And, as I mentioned, I was on her "turf," so I can't complain too much...

[struggle4progress]

15. If you don't want to carry on a discussion about a topic, don't prolong the discussion

"we'd love to have you"
"thank you" *change topic of conversation*

[ZombieHorde]

16. You response could have been a little better.

http://nunchuck.net/">All you need for every social situation.

[Evoman]

17. "Thanks, I'll keep that in mind."

Probably would have ended it faster.

Some other possibilities:

"I'm sorry, but church gives me diarrhea"

"I'll come with you if you blow me"

"I can't come to your church, I'm allergic to peanuts. *then you grab your wallet and talk into it like a phone* My liege, the peanuts are after me, my cover has been blown"

[trotsky]

20. ...

:spray:

[ConcernedCanuk]

18. You got some excellent advice already - I'll just add a wee bit

.
.
.

If conversation is necessary, "Agnostic" is less controversial than Atheist.

Another thought, - if the personal interactions are uncomfortable, just keep track of who drives what car, and sorta stay away when you see that particular car in the lot?

Then you could just avoid the personal confrontations.

FYI - I consider myself agnostic, a "fence-sitter" as some might say.

I neither support nor deny the claims of most religions.

Having been raised, and "confirmed" as an Anglican in my teens, sung in church choirs in both Presbyterian and Anglican churches, attended Quakers' meetings, "Friends" groups, Baha'i faith meetings, Scientology Sessions, some others I forget, and of course the Jehovah's Witnesses at my door - I got a fair bit of exposure to different religions in my over 50 years on this planet - -

and that's only a very SMALL amount of the religions around the globe

They can't ALL be right, nor all wrong - so

Go with your heart, but remember

Those OTHER people really believe

Go gently . . .

[moggie]

19. You need to dress weird

Dress like a clown. Kids like clowns, but they're mostly not welcome in church.

[charlie]

21. No thanks, we're cannibals

But we'd love to have YOU sometime.

Naw, I wouldn't have done it any differently. 3 times elsewhere would be pushy, but if I were in her church's parking lot, I'd consider it like being offered a meal -- a little insistence isn't being impolite.

[cosmik debris]

23. You are on the right track, but...

Don't make excuses.

Just say "no thank you."

You don't owe them an explanation.

Just a polite "no thank you" will leave them with no courteous way to continue the conversation on that subject.

You may have to say it twice, but after the second time, if they persist, say nothing.

Just pretend that they had the good taste to drop the subject. Or you may change the subject yourself.

The conversational technique that they use is intended to put you in a corner and leave you no way out other than to yield to their pressure. (And it worked--You said you'd think it over) By being polite but terse, you can turn the tables and leave them in a corner with no way out except to change the subject.

But when you make excuses, you keep their subject open. And that is their intent. They win the rhetorical battle. A simple "no thank you" ends the rhetorical battle, and there is no victory for them and no way to continue the conversation without being rude.

NO EXCUSES! Just "no thank you."

[JerseygirlCT]

25. Hmmm... I do think this might be one of those situations

where the repetition of "no thanks" - as you put it nicely - is what's needed here.

You might soften it with thanks for her efforts to welcome you, but say that you're just not interested in joining her church.

It sort of sounds like she's just being overly enthusiastic and attempting to be nice by making you feel welcome.

I don't think you owe her any explanation of your beliefs (for want of a better word) that you're not comfortable sharing. A simple (and possibly repeated) "thanks for the kind words of welcome, but we're not interested in attending church" ought to work eventually. No need to be confrontational on either of your parts - hopefully it will be a smile and wave sort of thing from then on.

If it really gets annoyingly persistent, then you may have to be a bit more emphatic. But it really sounds to me like the people we have at church who are "greeters" or really an awful lot of people in my church - we tease each other about all of us tripping over each other to welcome new people. Now, granted, you're not someone attending the church, but I'm sensing her actions come from the same basic place.

[Deep13]

27. "We'd love to have you," isn't actually a question.

It really doesn't require any response. Anyway, she's repeating herself so there is no reason to change your answer. You might have just told her again that you are not shopping for a church.

But yeah, that is irritating. At some point I might end up saying, "I don't believe in god, okay? Will you still love to have me?" or "yeah, but what would I get out of it?" Speaking for my single self, I would not have promised to think about it because it just isn't true. The last time I was in Las Vegas, some woman made it her personal mission to save my wife and I from Satan. I finally told her that the only reason she was still talking to us was because we were too fat to run away.

[Taitertots]

28. No Thank you I'm already satisfied with my salvation carrier

[skepticscott]

29. I would have started off by saying

"Thanks, but we don't go to church", which would be true, without obliging you to disclose your lack of religious affiliation if you felt it was none of her business. If she pressed you and asked why not, I would have said "We....don't like to talk about it", which would also be true, while clueing her in that this was not a subject she should pursue, and giving her a last chance to bow out of the conversation politely. If she continued to press the issue after that, you would have been entirely justified in responding less politely.

[knitter4democracy]

30. This might get me flamed, but I think you need to know a bit of Christospeak.

The only answer that shuts (most--some are really crazy about it) them up is to say you already have a faith community or church. Any other answer is an opening, really. Tell her you're agnostic or atheist, and she sees an opening to witness (try to get you to be a Christian). Tell her a simple, "no, thank you," and it really might not be a strong enough answer for her.

This is how I would've played it:
Lady: "We'd love to have you."
You: "We already have a faith community, thank you."

If she asks which one, redirect by saying it's time for dinner or to head back to the house or whatever. Chances are, she'll forget all about it and think you're a Christian in another church. Don't make anything up (most evangelicals know pretty much all of the churches in town and who goes where, especially in a small town), and don't get specific. She doesn't need to know that you're making it up to make her feel better.

Yes, it's a lie, but honestly, having been trained in evangelical techniques, any truthful answer will be seen as an opening. Don't give people like that an opening unless you really want to hear all about it.

[Manifestor_of_Light]

31. I have the exact same problem.

Living in a rural area, very small town, no Unitarians.

They don't want to take "no" for an answer.

It does no good to explain -- saying "Unitarian-Universalist" is like saying "Oh, I'm from Mars".

:banghead:

A fundy kid I know told me twice that atheists didn't need to go to church, after I explained what Unitarians are.

I told him twice that atheists need to socialize like anybody else and corrected him.

:banghead: :grr:

[Liquorice]

32. Well, you know what they say...

Hang out in church parking lots, expect to be invited inside! Okay, "they" don't actually say that, but it was pretty likely that was going to happen eventually.

[Mamacrat]

33. Thanks...

I agree with what some others wrote about saying very little. It's very likely the woman was just being kind and would have said the same thing if you were hanging outside of the local library which had a program that night. A simple, "Thanks, but we're happy with our situation" says no, but does not lead you into you being an atheist and then church members possibly trying to save you every time they see you. I do go to church and have used the same sort of phrase to those who have invited me to their mega church, which they all think is the greatest thing ever, but I'd never want to attend.

[tiny elvis]

34. Show them your Chuck Norris talisman

As one might do here when one feels threatened.