Does this theory about the sex abuse scandal make any sense?

[jakefrep]

On another board that I post on, someone blamed the Church sex abuse scandal on "liberal modernism" among the priests that committed the acts. He noted that many of the accused priests were prodcuts of "liberal" seminaries that "promoted sexual tolerance."

[Midnight Rambler]

1. Only in the minds of freepers

I doubt that he has any sort of backup for this claim aside from a preacher. There's much more evidence that the doctrine of celibacy is more responsible for these crimes than any sort of "liberal modernism," which to my knowledge has never promoted touching little boys.

[cagator]

2. pedophila

I don't think the celebacy doctrine is to blame, either. I think the fact that priest's aren't allowed to marry makes it the perfect cover for pedophiles. They join the church on purpose, 1st to give them access to boys and 2nd nobody will question them not being married.
Lack of sex doesn't turn someone into a pedophile. It would just make you horny!(look out Nuns!)

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

3. I think you are right

pedophiles tend to get into jobs where they are around children-scout leaders, baseball coaches, and priests have all been occupations of pedophiles.

And welcome to DU!

[supernova]

11. Bingo! The right question to ask

isn't "Why are there so many pedophiles among the Catholic clergy?"

The right question to ask is "What is it about Catholic policies and the clergy lifestyle, doctrine, ways of doing business within the church that makes the preiesthood a good hiding place for pedophiles?"

It's not that other denoms are so lily-white, either. We all have our share of clergy run amok. They are no less human than their congregants, afterall. Every denom has an ethics committee that deals with this stuff.

But the RC Church does have an overabundance of this problem and I'm glad to see people are starting to ask not just Who? but also Why?

[MichiganVote]

5. For the last frickin' time-celibacy does not call molestation

If there is so much evidence, where is it?

[Midnight Rambler]

7. I'm not saying that it causes molestation

Just that it makes more sense than what this guy was saying, to me anyway.

[MichiganVote]

9. Get an education-celibacy does not cause molestation

Midnight you write,

"There's much more evidence that the doctrine of celibacy is more responsible for these crimes than any sort of "liberal modernism"

"I'm not saying that it causes molestation"

"Just that it makes more sense than what this guy was saying, to me anyway."

Whether an abuser is a supposed celibate priest or the father or mother down the block, sex does not cause sexual abuse. Pathological addiction to sexual excitement does. There is no "evidence" that celibacy is responsible for these crimes. None. The fact that associations may be made is not evidence, its mere conjecture.

[Midnight Rambler]

10. Here's what I'm trying to say

You have this guy going on about liberal modernism and how that's the reason why all these kids were abused. Again, just another moron saying that liberal values are to blame for everything wrong in the world, no matter how out there it sounds. AIDS? It's the liberals' fault. Lost your job? Liberals. Sex abuse scandal? Liberal media plot. Now then, from some of the stuff I've heard and read about celibacy (and I'm talking about young seminary students living together from an early age back in the old days with no outside contact, and didn't even have basic knowledge of sexuality) it would seem to me that you could make a stronger case with that than what this guy is trying to say. That's all I'm saying. And, let me make it clear, that's just my opinion.

[rlpincus]

4. You might have missed this

http://web.archive.org/web/20020607141945/http://abcnews.go.com/sections/2020/DailyNews/2020_Vatican_coverup_020426.html

This was posted on an earlier discussion. It would seem it goes back a ways.

[peacetalksforall]

6. That is the kind of statement that means nothing...if the author doesn't

present a case to support the statement naming schools or seminaries and the professors....philosophy, etc. On the other hand, if you find out the the author is a member of Opus Dei...we've got a interesting tidbit.

[jakefrep]

8. Let me put it this way...

judging from the content of his other posts, he probably creamed his shorts when he found out Ratzinger was elected. Not sure about Opus Dei, but it sounded like he was into the Legion of Christ.

[meow2u3]

12. I don't think you're right in this case

From what I saw and heard, the pedo priests who have been exposed were also the most conservative, the ones who preached fire-and-brimstone or sex-related homilies.

The more progressive priests tend to focus on matters of peace and/or social justice.

[H2O Man]

13. I think that

the majority of priests who rape kids are not pedophiles. They tend to go for teens, which is ephebephila. That is what the Boy Scout leaders and teachers that have recently been in the news are guilty of. Obviously, it is as much a crime, and as much an illness.

[Brianboru]

14. There's a new book on this subject

by Michael S. Rose "Goodbye! Good Men" about how some gay priests in control of Catholic seminaries and chanceries use their power to persecute orthodox, heterosexual priests and seminarians. It contains information about the gay domination of St. John's Seminary in Boston during the time that many of the priests accused in the current scandal there were ordained.

Seems to support this theory.

Haven’t read it yet. http://www.goodbyegoodmen.com/

[Hell Hath No Fury]

15. That book you linked to...

is a RW piece of trash, btw.

It's funny, the Catholic men I know who were molested as boys were all molested during the 50s, long before the "liberalization" of the Catholic church.

[Brianboru]

17. I was hoping to get some comments

before I bothered reading it.

Can you give me a three sentence review?

Thanks

[Hell Hath No Fury]

16. They must have been reading...

"Goodbye! Good Men". :eyes:

Well, the priests who molested my friends and their siblings weren't from "liberal" seminaries. They were from the old Irish Catholic beat-you-with-a-stick school of Christ.

Priests have been molesting kids for a l-o-n-g time, long before the nasty "liberals" created the sexual revolution -- it was just finally brought to light.

[lolly]

18. Bingo

My own theory is that it's a symptom of a certain type of personality that needs to control others.

That's why the "beat-you-with-a-stick" comment makes sense to me.

Children/young teenagers are very easy to control. I think, for many of them at least, the whole crime is more about control than about sex (just like many feminist theorists have been saying about rape for a generation now).

Those who use religion to control others--dictate their sex lives, when they can pull the plug, what they can say, etc.--are into control. Sex abuse is just another manifestation of that sadistic need to control others.

[Az]

19. No, sex abuse amongst the clergy is due to a different social factor

The clergy (no mantter the denomination) carries with it the social impact of being a powerful benign force for good. That is most people percieve members of the clergy as highly moral individuals. Representing the highest positions of good within our society (whether this is true or not is irrelevant).

Peope who have sexual obsessions concerning socially unaccetpable practices are well aware of their deviance from social norms. They come to see their obsessions as evil and unwanted. But this does not change the fact that they are still present within them.

Many individuals try to self treat the problem in a variety of ways. They try to hold to the things in society they believe to represent goodness in order to drive out the evil they percieve resides within them. Thus many turn to religion in order to purge themself. Some in desperation even pursue a life in the clergy.

This is where a real problem develops. Due to the isolation from the typical target of their obsessions during training nothing is resolved. The obsession is merely deprived of its target for a while so the individual may feel as if some good is coming from the process. Absense of temptation may lead to the first sense of freedom in some time.

But after they leave the training process an entirely new problem is dropped on them. Not only are they reintroduced to the thing they still have an obsession towards. But now they are vested with the social perception of trust conveyed by the garments of the clergy. They are thrust into close proximity of their obsessions and the normal defenses and limits we have with ordinary people are removed due to the trust so many have of the clergy.

For children this is particularly dangerous. Those raised in the religion have been taught that preists as close to god and an authority. They are made easy victims of these wolves in shepards clothing.