CNN: Extremist rabbis call for return of animal sacrifice

[stopbush]

JERUSALEM (AP) -- A fringe group of extremist rabbis wants to resume the biblical practice of animal sacrifice at an explosive religious site in Jerusalem, members said Wednesday. The request defied centuries of religious bans and triggered a stiff protest from a Muslim leader.

When the Jewish Temples stood in the Old City of Jerusalem more than 2,000 year ago, animal sacrifice was a centerpiece of the religion. After the destruction of the Temples, sacrifices were banned and rabbinical teachings took their place as the focus of Judaism.

Now a group, called the "Re-established Sanhedrin" after the Temple-era religious high court, has decided to buy some sheep and try to find one that is ritually perfect for sacrifice, with an eye toward resuming the practice at the Jerusalem site, known to Jews as the Temple Mount.

The site is the most hotly disputed in the Middle East, home today to the Al Aqsa Mosque compound, where Muslims believe the Prophet Muhammad ascended to heaven.

Israel captured the site in the 1967 war and turned day-to-day control over to the Muslim Religious Council, but Palestinians take the Jewish fringe groups seriously.

"Regrettably, there are many extremist Israeli groups who want to carry out their plans," said Jerusalem's senior Islamic cleric, Mohammed Hussein. "Let them say what they want, Al Aqsa is a Muslim mosque."


http://www.cnn.com/2007/WORLD/meast/02/28/israel.animal.ap/index.html

[smoogatz]

1. God wants blood.

Religion is terrifying.

[rockymountaindem]

2. These guys are nuts

They have invested themselves with a power which, according to the Bible, does not belong to them or to anybody outside the family line of Aaron, which has probably been long lost despite what anybody claims. Furthermore, without a consecrated Holy of Holies, such sacrifices can't be done anyway. Besides which, I think we're better off as a religion since the 70 C.E. decision to substitute prayer for sacrifice and the decentralization of the faith.

[Meshuga]

7. Nuts indeed

And like you pointed out, ignorant of their own religious law because the law makes it pretty impossible for this practice to return.

[smoogatz]

8. No more nuts than the followers of the hundred or so religions

worldwide that include animal sacrifice as an integral part of their religious practice. And let's not forget the ritual human sacrifice/cannibalism that all who take communion participate in. How nuts is that? God wants blood, baby. Better give it to him or he'll be pissed.

[rockymountaindem]

9. No, these guys are particularly nuts from a Jewish perspective

I can't speak for the concept of transubstantiation, but Judaism no longer demands sacrifice, and hasn't for nearly 2000 years. This is not the time nor the way to bring that practice back, nor do I think that it should be, pardon the pun, resurrected. Whoever toes that line is theologically wrongheaded in my opinion.

[smoogatz]

10. I see.

As a non-believer, none of it makes much sense to me. These guys sound crazy, sure, but no crazier in principle than most religious people. From my perspective, it's kind of a matter of degree.

[rug]

15. Ignoring the snark, in Communion, it's God who's shedding his blood.

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

14. And the Ark has never been found

right? Though I've heard some who say it is buried under the Temple Mount. Wonder if those claiming that are of this group?

[Meshuga]

18. Indiana Jones found it

And a bunch of nazis died when they opened it.

[no_hypocrisy]

3. Geez, the red heifer!! The "real" reason for resurrecting animal sacrifice.

They want to start Armageddon.
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/662602/posts

:sarcasm:

[TheBaldyMan]

11. red heifers are born all the time, little red bullocks as well.

apart from the story being from 2002, I think that nothing short of being struck down by the Almighty would stop those nuts.

btw are they wanting a wave or heave sacrifice?

[demnan]

4. As long as you're going backwards

why not go way back! Put your first born son on the altar.

[T Wolf]

6. Makes more sense. At least the first born son would know what is

happening to him.

Religious nuts of all denominations are just nuts.

[Taxloss]

5. Well, that will help calm down an explosive situation!

Way to aid Middle East peace! :sarcasm:

[On the Road]

12. Uh Oh!

Personally, I've been wondering when this might happen. If there's one incident that could spark a new war, setting up sacrifices in the Al Aqsa mosque would be it.

Regardless of what the rabbinic tradition says, the doctrine that sacrifice is no longer needed was simply making a virtue of necessity. The five books of Moses still hold preeminence in Judaism, and they're pretty clear on sacrifice.

In one sense, I don't blame them for wanting to resume sacrifices. It's just taking their scripture seriously. But in the 21st century, it should also be a clue that their belief system has some serious problems.

[Meshuga]

16. Let's get some BBQ sauce!

If are going to take into consideration rabbinic tradition you don't use only the written Torah (the five books of Moses), you have to take into consideration the oral Torah otherwise they are not following their religion. The attitude of these nutty guys resemble the Seducees whose religious practices (of animal sacrifices at the temple) are extinct because of the fall of the temple. Not rabbinical Judaism.

Pharisaic Judaism is what survived and if you look at the bigger picture you will learn that the Pharisees brought about the Oral Law to create a twofold law (written torah and oral torah) in order to become an authority. Yes, the written Torah sets the rules for animal sacrifices and it is believed to be canonized for political reasons (around 600 BCE) in order to give political power to the Aronides priests who performed these rituals. So it is there in the Torah and it is part of an extinct form of Judaism.

Then came the Pharisaic sect in the second century BCE introducing this twofold law to gain power but they did without taking away the relevance from the written Torah and letting the Aronides priests, who later became the sect of the Seduccees, have authority over what went on in the temple (religious rites, sacrifices, etc.)

With the fall of the temple, the pharisaic sect prevailed and they are the rabbinic Judaism we know of today. The seduccees are extinct since their religion was based at the temple in Jerusalem and could not be performed anywhere else.

I was just at my rabbi's house this morning and told him about this fringe group from this article. He rolled his eyes knowing this is just a small group of wackos.

He claims that in the rabbinic tradition there is no need to rebuild a temple. The whole point of rabbinic Judaism is the fact that it is a Judaism independent of the Temple. Our temple now is our synagogues. The Jewish law states that you can only perform these rituals at the temple in Jerusalem and without a temple these loonies cannot perform their animal sacrifice.

The more mystical orthodox sects (and orthodoxy is a 10% minority within Jews) hope for one day for the temple to be rebuild and if that happens the animal sacrifices will resume. Especially the more recent sects like the Hasidic movement that came about in Poland in the 17th century (and they still dress like they were in Poland in the 17th century).

However, not all orthodox Jews want this temple built in a hurry or at all costs, only a small minority of them do. And the Christian fundamentalists also want this temple rebuilt otherwise there is no second coming. :crazy:

My rabbi said jokingly that if their wishes come true and the temple is ever rebuilt, he'd bring the BBQ sauce because the only meaningful part of this practice for him is the fact that he'd get to eat some BBQ. :-)

[On the Road]

20. Yes, the Form of Judaism it Represents is Extinct

In other words, the opposition is all dead, primarily because they took on the Romans. The remaining tradition derives from the accommodationists. Their views of the Torah are driven by the need to not be persecuted and the impossibility of restoring the Temple.

Unlike you, however, I don't think it's strange to disagree with the tradition where it seems to conflict with the plain intent of the Law.

I think people talk themselves into all kinds of bastardized positions out of a need to fit in with tradition, society, or others' opinions. Religion is supposed to trump all those concerns. If it takes you down a disturbing path, IMO you should either follow it there and be consistent, or reject the entire system outright.

In my case, I ended up rejecting the belief system, but needed to follow it to a certain place where it became clear. But if other people are looking silly trying to be consistent, I kind of admire that.

[Meshuga]

21. The opposition didn't all die

"In other words, the opposition is all dead, primarily because they took on the Romans."

The opposition didn't all die, the only possible place the opposition could follow their religion disappeared with the destruction of the temple. After the fall of the temple they had no religion.


"In my case, I ended up rejecting the belief system, but needed to follow it to a certain place where it became clear. But if other people are looking silly trying to be consistent, I kind of admire that."

I'm usually indiferent because as long as we have a group who don't cause any harm I don't care but these guys advocate blowing up the mosques at the temple mount so they are a bunch of loonies in my opinion. I don't appreciate that. But if they were harmless and if they bring back the sacrifices then like my rabbi said, "I'll bring the BBQ sauce."

As far as mutations, I am for it and think the works that came about from these mutations are interesting and very useful. The development of an ethical system from these mutations and from outside influences makes it well worth it in my opinion.

on edit: if you take away the mutations and evolution of Judaism then we are not talking about Rabbinical Judaism which is another era of the mutation, written Torah by itself is Karaism and not rabbinical judaism.

[On the Road]

23. Even After the Temple Was Destroyed in 70AD

many Jews did not accept the absence of the Temple and wanted to fight to restore it. In saying they were all killed, I was referring to the Bar Kosiba revolt in the 130s and the pogoms that followed. That pretty well wiped out any organized zealot thought or tradition.

I don't really have an opinion on the theology. Ethical systems in many traditions have become much more civilized over time. But I don't interpret as crazy an attempt to hark back to an earlier standard that was abandoned due to force is.

[Meshuga]

24. There is more to this revolt than the temple.

The Bar Kokhba’s revolt was a revolt against Rome and the proponent of the revolt was Rabbi Akiva, a Pharisaic Tannaim, who annoited Bar Kokhba as the messiah to lead the fight against Roman oppression. They did want to rebuild the temple but that was not the emphasis. Followers of both pharisees, saducees, and other sects were either killed or expelled from the region. They weren't all killed. About 600,000 Jews died in this revolt but they were from all sects.

There is some evidence that saducees (the authority of religious rites of the temple who performed animal sacrifices) survived as a minority group within Judaism up until early medieval times but as a religious group they vanished with the fall of the temple since their religion was based in the temple.

Point is, even the written torah is full of all kinds of bastardized positions from earlier religions and beliefs. Some say that the binding of Isaac is a representation of the rejection of human sacrifice and replacing it with animal sacrifice and that the animal sacrifices were eventually replaced by prayer with the fall of the temple. All sorts of the restriction were added to the animal sacrifices in order to ween a religion from this primitive need which eventually faded out. Perhaps this fringe group should skip the animals and go back to human sacrifices as an attempt to hark back to an even earlier standard . :-)

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

13. Those rabbis have support with Christian fundies here

because they see animal sacrifice as another step towards re-establishing the temple, which is necessary to begin the Final Days.

[Meshuga]

17. I wound't think so

In order to re-establish animal sacrifices the temple needs to be rebuilt first so I think these rabbis are cutting corners and going against orthodox halachah by wanting animal sacrifice without a temple. In other words, Christian fundies have no use for this group because this group seems not to need a temple and without a temple there is no second coming. :-)

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

19. Ah

Thanks for the information. You're right on the fundies wanting the Temple to be built.

[sakabatou]

22. WTH?!

The Temple hasn't returned, so why are they doing this?