A Dance with Dragons - well, who has read it yet?

[Duer 157099]

I'm dying to know if Jon Snow's true parentage is revealed in this book.

I'll be shocked if his parents are not Lyanna Stark and Rhaegar Targaryen.

[Pisces]

1. Just started the book, but can't wait to find out myself.

[jul61252]

11. +1

[solara]

2. That's a pretty interesting theory. So Eddard wasn't Jon' s father after all,

he took his sister's child and raised him as his bastard to save him from King Robert's murderous hatred. Big big secret Ha that would explain a few things!

very cool idea

:hi:

[Duer 157099]

3. I've been reading with this in mind

and everytime I see Eddard talk about it, he says things like "you're my blood" or "you're a Stark" and remember how adament he was that Jon could NOT go to King's Landing with him? Why would that be? He knows Robert wants to kill every living Targaryen. Also, Rhaegar was described as being very morose, like a cloud of gloom always followed him--just like Jon Snow!

I swear it.

I just wonder if eventually he'll get into a relationship with his aunt Daenerys unknowingly! lol

[exboyfil]

4. Another second hand theory comes out

regarding Jon's parentage. This is at least the fourth probable combination. I am about a 1/4th of the way through the book.

We probably will not know until we get a POV from Howland Reed which, based on the Table of Contents, does not have a POV in this book. It is not like they have DNA testing in Westeros. Given Martin's proclivities we may never know for sure. In one sense it should not matter given Jon's current position, but, on the other hand, there is Rob's letter which was prepared without fully understanding the situation (ie that certain characters who he thought were dead are actually alive).

The one thing I do know is that I will have a difficult time waiting another five years for the next book. Also on third reading of A Feast for Crows I am going to give Martin a bit of a break from my first assessment. I don't think he did himself any favors by splitting the two books, but it holds together a little better than I first thought.

[Duer 157099]

5. I'm still in ASOS. But what are the other theories?

And what support do they have? I know some must be based just on quotes from people in the books, but what accessory facts are there?

[exboyfil]

6. That is the point no facts

Just idle talk about milk brothers etc. I don't remember all the names, but one combination was Eddard and the sister of Arthur Dayne (Ashara) who supposed to have killed herself after birthing Jon. The milk brother of Jon Snow claimed to Arya that Jon's mother was Wylla and his father was Eddard. I think Robert also thought that Wylla was Jon's mother. Of course you have Rhaegar and Lyanna. I won't spoil the fourth speculation which is in the latest book.

Since Howland Reed is the only living survivor of the Tower of Joy conflict, he might be able to answer the question, but probably only if Jon is actually the son of Rhaegar and Lyanna. Otherwise he might not have a clue. Unless Ashara surfaces then you won't have an individual with any credibility for the other theories. It does appear that not all bastards are created equal. Edric Storm is more highly regarded than Gendry for example.

[Duer 157099]

7. Has Ned every said the words "I am your father" to Jon?

I think I recall him saying "you are my son" and "you have my blood" and things like that, but did he ever outright say that he was his father? Even if he did, that is still ambiguous because he raised him so in reality he is his father. Although by that criteria, Cat is his mother and she sure as hell would never have said that.

And having the same milk mother sounds like a decoy, because if Lyanna died giving birth Jon would have needed a wet nurse too.

I can't make sense of any other scenario. And as for spoilers, go ahead, it doesn't bother me (although if you do, put it in the title of your post for others to see). I'm reading the books in such a disjointed manner that it doesn't matter, and I'm having to read things multiple times to really extract all the info.

To think that this all came from the mind of GRRM is a bit amazing to me. Authors just astonish me.

[exboyfil]

8. No father son bonding time in the

book as Jon and Ned get separated early on in the first book. Jon's POV speculation does not imply he has any doubt about his father. His father has refused to answer Jon's direct question about his mother, but Ned implied (said I am not sure) that they would discuss more when they got together after King's Landing (I don't know when Jon would have come back with his uncle from the Wall). Of course everything went to heck before then so that question remains.

It really is all idle talk until, and if, Howland Reed shows up or Ashara Dayne rises from the grave. They have much bigger fish to fry than worrying about Jon's parents (Wildings, Wights, Starvation, and Dragons for example). A further revelation makes Jon's lineage even less important in the latest book. I did not see it coming. Frankly except for the Dany has to get together with Jon crowd, it really is not that important. I kind of hope that Jon stays true to his vow and stays at the wall. In that case it doesn't matter who his parents were which is what I like about the Watch.

I won't give out spoilers to the latest book. I never want to spoil it for others. This policy came from reading a review the morning I was going to see The Return of the Jedi, and Luke/Leia's relationship was revealed. Also when I heard idle tongues outside of Star Trek II.

[Duer 157099]

9. I think it matters to Jon, even if he doesn't yet know it

His whole identity is as Ned Stark's bastard (at least up to where I am in the reading), and I think it would do him good to know that he was the legitimate son of a prince, which I believe he was. I think that Rhaegar married Lyanna in secret.

[exboyfil]

10. Polygamy was allowed in the 7 Kingdoms?

Rhaegar died on the Trident before the death of his lawful wife at the hands of Gregor (assuming that is what actually happened - you can never be sure). I guess we do have cases of multiple partners for the Targaryens so maybe it would have been a lawful union? Perhaps Rhaegar got a secret divorce from Elia??? Also what is the policy for posthumous children?

If I found out tomorrow that I was adopted, it would not change one iota of my attitude towards my father. I would have absolutely no interest in tracking down my birth parents. My parents raised me to the best of their ability, and, while, Cat was cold to Jon, he did grow up in a wonderful environment (far better than most of Robert's bastards for sure). I think it was hard for Ned to give Jon to the Watch, but since lawful Stark children went to the Wall - I feel that it was a gift and sacrifice for him. He knew the desperate need for the Watch. I have to wonder if Ned did not have in the back of his head that eventually Jon would take over for his brother as Lord Commander or at least as the First Ranger.

Yes Jon would probably like to know, but, as for now, he suspects nothing, and there may be nothing to suspect. The ties that bound Ned to Cat were tenuous at best when he went on campaign so hooking up with someone is not out of the question especially when your drinking buddy is Robert. Remember, unless Cat was catting around, the seed does not look very strong in Ned - only one of his lawful children look like him (Arya) - the others look like their mom. Who knows maybe Littlefinger is Rob's daddy? I don't believe it, but young people do crazy things.