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YellowDoginthehouse Donating Member (406 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-01-04 01:18 PM
Original message
This is a high stakes game!
Edited on Wed Dec-01-04 01:20 PM by YellowDoginthehouse
Let me ask you guys a question: How different would things be right now if we had prevailed in recounts in 2000? If Al Gore were president, do you think that would make a difference in the lives of hundreds of thousands of Iraqi and Afghani children who are now dead, maimed and/or orphaned? Do you think that Fallujah would have been napalmed under a Democratic administration comprised of Vietnam war vets? Do you think we would have invaded Iraq at all?

It's not just us at stake here. It's millions of people all over the world-they are depending on you to follow the example of the Ukraine.

Give up? Move on? Are you NUTS? No can do! The world's children are depending on us. We don't have the luxury of giving up. So when freepers come here and post articles that make you feel helpless and hopeless, just ignore them!

We have to try. The stakes are just too damned high. So put your shoulder to the wheel, and your nose to the grindstone and PUSH REAL HARD! Yeah, we might go down, but we'll go down swinging!

And we may teach the kids something important in the process-ever think of that?
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KenCarson Donating Member (170 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-01-04 01:21 PM
Response to Original message
1. isn't ukraine about bush wanting troops from the "legit" winner?
.
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YellowDoginthehouse Donating Member (406 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-01-04 01:21 PM
Response to Reply #1
2. Probably
You are probably right.
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ahyums Donating Member (348 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-01-04 01:24 PM
Response to Original message
3. from my point of view politics is the highest stakes game there is,
literally all our futures depend on it. That's why November 3rd hurt so much. That's why we can never give up, either now or in the future whatever the short term results may be. This is about creating a better tomorrow for everyone.
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truehawk Donating Member (797 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-01-04 01:26 PM
Response to Original message
4. Hi Yellow
I just can not see Patrick Henry or Tom Paine saying "Move On".


Did the Malicious Hateful RThugs ever "Move On" after Gore won?

No they declared Bush the winner and fought the count that would have proved otherwise.

Now we are suffering for our laziness of 4 years ago.
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YellowDoginthehouse Donating Member (406 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-01-04 01:32 PM
Response to Reply #4
6. Unfortunately, you're right, True. n/t
n/t
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meganmonkey Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-01-04 01:30 PM
Response to Original message
5. Well put, Yellowdog!!!!
It was that same train of thought that made me vote for a Democrat Presidential candidate for the first time this year (as opposed to Green/Independent/write in my mother).
It is the same reasoning that is inspiring me to drive down to Columbus this weekend. And every weekend after that if I have to. And to email my friends & family about this even though they are sick of me talking about it. And writing to politicians and reporters and editors. And not giving up!!!
This is so much more important than us.

:bounce:
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YellowDoginthehouse Donating Member (406 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-01-04 01:33 PM
Response to Reply #5
7. God Bless you, Megan, for going to Ohio!
Oh, how I wish I could!
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meganmonkey Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-01-04 01:37 PM
Response to Reply #7
8. I wish you could too!
But it sounds like you'll be there in spirit!

O8)
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YellowDoginthehouse Donating Member (406 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-01-04 01:38 PM
Response to Reply #8
9. but you guys need WARM BODIES!
I hope you get hundreds of 1000's of them!

I'm in AZ, and I have to work this weekend.
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Senator Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-01-04 01:44 PM
Response to Original message
10. And so we MUST take action
Here is a Declaration of Intent that we all need to demand that our "leaders" sign on to.

It's one thing to sit on your hands (ala Jan. 6th 2001) while no one is watching. But it's quite another to be put on the spot to do your duty, or fail to, and then have to look in the mirror every morning.

They must be shamed.
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understandinglife Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-01-04 01:45 PM
Response to Original message
11. Excellent, provocative post -- my responses
1. Had the Republicans been in Al Gore's position on 7 Nov 2000 a fire storm would have scorched our nation before they would have allowed their opponent to be inaugurated.

2. Had the Republicans confronted what Senator Kerry and Edwards did at ~ 2200, 2 Nov 2004, a fire storm would still be scorching every square foot of our nation. (want an example, just look at how frothy and loathsome they are being in the WA State Governor's race -- i surmise for more reasons than just getting Rossi into the governor's mansion; they don't want all those ballots actually scrutinized and compared to the current tables in the county's databases).

3. Had just ONE US Senator stood with their courageous colleagues from the House of Representatives on that horrible day in Jan 2001, our nation and the world might very well have been spared some of the most imperialistic, immoral and illegal activities witnessed in the past 100 years.

4. Thus, we must not let this election stand. We must force a nation-wide audit. We must force a nation-wide commitment to allow every citizen equal access to a ballot and to an absolutely unambiguous accounting of how their vote is recorded or WE HAVE NO GOVERNMENT; we will have defaulted to tyranny because the franchise of democracy begins and ends with the robustness and accuracy of it's electoral system.

Do Not Allow This Election To Proceed. It is NOT OVER. It must not be allowed to stand because we have more than ample evidence that many of our fellow citizens were disenfranchised, just for starters. And that fact ALONE renders this election invalid.

We must HALT THIS ELECTION.

You can see the letter I have written Senator Kerry here:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...

As I've indicated to Senator Kerry, he cannot 'win' this election; no one can 'win' this election, because this election is not valid based on what we already know regarding voter suppression.

Peace.
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YellowDoginthehouse Donating Member (406 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-01-04 01:52 PM
Response to Reply #11
13. Hear, hear! Agree, 175%!
That's the percentage of voter turnout in some Ohio precincts...

We can't give up! It's not over!
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Blue State Blues Donating Member (575 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-01-04 02:15 PM
Response to Reply #11
19. Amen
Well said.
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Eloriel Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-01-04 01:46 PM
Response to Original message
12. Superb post
And so true.

I especially liked this:

Give up? Move on? Are you NUTS? No can do! The world's children are depending on us. We don't have the luxury of giving up.
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17yroldtwins Donating Member (69 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-01-04 01:53 PM
Response to Original message
14. A high stakes game is no joke
I am by nature a conflict avoider.
This issue has had me volunteering, calling and protesting on busy streets.
Whenever I feel embarrassed or silly, I think of my 17 year old twins who will be draft age next summer.

This is for all the marbles. I may appear to some to be a nut, but I MUST do these things. If we don't prevail in getting JOHN KERRY to the White House I want to know I have done everything possible to safeguard our democracy for our children.

This administration is killing our country.

Attie
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YellowDoginthehouse Donating Member (406 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-01-04 01:57 PM
Response to Reply #14
15. Amen, Attie!
You're right!
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damntexdem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-01-04 02:04 PM
Response to Original message
16. We'd be much better off, no matter how bad Gore is.
So, MoveOn, not move on!
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YellowDoginthehouse Donating Member (406 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-01-04 02:06 PM
Response to Original message
17. here in AZ...
We had a GOTV group who made bumperstickers that had a picture of a beautiful little girl, and the sticker said:

"Su vota es mi voz"-Your vote is my voice. This campaign got me right there, because it strikes at the heart of why I'm a Democrat.

When we protest loudly, we speak for those who cannot speak for themselves. It's important. We must do this! I personally think we should visit the Senate by the thousands in January and demand that they support the House in protesting the inaugural.
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eowyn_of_rohan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-01-04 02:11 PM
Response to Original message
18. Perhaps if this hadn't happened in 2000, we wouldn't be as passionate
about getting to the bottom of all of this right now. We were caught unprepared last time, but this time, most of us were just WAITING for them to try to pull it again. If 2000 hadn't happened, would we be working as hard on the "undercover" research we are doing here, and in other places, on everything from specific types of voting fraud and disenfrachisement, to the interconnectedness of all the shady corporations and individuals that are involved? Maybe things were meant to happen in this way for a reason...
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SomthingsGotaGive Donating Member (485 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-01-04 06:39 PM
Response to Reply #18
32. If 2000 hadn't happened......
GOP would be no more.

They would have eaten themselves alive with the religious right being blamed for scaring of moderate Dem's

We would have spent the last 4 yrs working with the world not against it.

The Dem's were not caught unprepared in 2000. They were out foxed.

This time we were ready and waiting and look what happened.

Out Foxed again. Worse.


I appreciate your optimism and determination, but if we think we can beat the repugs at their own game we are fools.

How do you out fox a fox if you aren't one to begin with and have no interest in becoming one?

Thats what we need to discuss. Not silver linings in the coup of 2000.




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eowyn_of_rohan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-01-04 08:09 PM
Response to Reply #32
35. "How do you out fox a fox if you aren't one? "
I guess what gave me a little glimmer of hope was the idea that there is a call right now for the Republicans to join in the Ohio recount, to make it a bi-partisan effort. I don't know if the Rove-types know how to play nice. Honesty and integrity, standing up and fighting for what is right... Perhaps that is a "game" we could win.
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SomthingsGotaGive Donating Member (485 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-01-04 08:21 PM
Response to Reply #35
36. Could you please link that..a call from who....
Republicans to other republicans ?
Democrats to Republicans ?


I would be very impressed to see even a whisper from ANY
Republican about joining the recount efforts.


If you can post a single link, even if its from a repub newsgroup member saying it, you will make my night.

I don't think there is a single Republican out there that wants a recount.


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Blue State Blues Donating Member (575 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-01-04 02:20 PM
Response to Original message
20. The stakes are high ...
... true, true true. But this is no game.

The problem with the Dem leadership seems to be that they still think of politics as a game. With rules. Where you shake hands with your opponent at the end, win or lose.

But this is not a game. This is a coup.
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seito Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-01-04 02:25 PM
Response to Original message
21. You tell em YellowDog
This is no time to duck and cover. The game is on and the stakes will never be higher. We need to push this thing through to the end.

By the way, the end does not come on Jan 20th. The end comes when we are no longer sending our kids to kill and die in an illegal war. The end comes when we no longer tolerate corrupt corporate enterprises controlling our media. The end comes when every lying, cheating, corrupt politician and election official is fired, indicted and rotting in prison. The end comes when we can hold up our heads again and say that we are proud to be Americans.
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YellowDoginthehouse Donating Member (406 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-01-04 02:27 PM
Response to Reply #21
22. And that we are a TRUE democracy! n/t
n/t
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driver8 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-01-04 08:53 PM
Response to Reply #21
37. Sending our kids...
I agree seito. I look at my young son and daughter and think, "What kind of world is going to be left for them?"

At the rate Shrub and Co. are going, there won't be much world left, I'm afraid. It really bums me out that our children are going to have to clean up and pay for his incompetence.
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YellowDoginthehouse Donating Member (406 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-01-04 03:08 PM
Response to Original message
23. kick
kick
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Karenca Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-01-04 03:12 PM
Response to Original message
24. Not only do I believe that we would not be in Iraq, 9/11 would not have
happened if Pres. Gore were running the country!
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texpatriot2004 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-01-04 03:16 PM
Response to Original message
25. Be strong, have courage, don't buy into the move on,
Edited on Wed Dec-01-04 03:19 PM by texpatriot2004
it will never happen, it's over garbage. You are right yellowdog about ignoring those posts that suck you into hopelessness and helplessness. Our intentions must be firm no matter what. We the people have the
power , don't give your power away, take it back. Stand for something. Rise up. Fight the fraud with all your might. Fight smart and fight hard. Keep your backbone intact and upright. What happened is wrong and we know it. We can't wait for anyone else to rescue us or come along and solve the problem. We must do all we can, because like yellowdog said, the stakes are just too damn high.
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Karenca Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-01-04 03:27 PM
Response to Reply #25
26. WE ARE 60,000,000 STRONG!
And Canada, England, Germany etc......everyboday all over the world knows this election was stolen. And everyone hates Shrub.. Just look at the replies we have from IMSORRY.COM!
Do NOT GIVE UP EVER..WE WILL WIN!
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understandinglife Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-01-04 05:16 PM
Response to Reply #26
27. Kick (n/t)
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texpatriot2004 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-01-04 05:17 PM
Response to Reply #26
28. We are strong. I haven't heard of Imsorry.com have you seen
the sorry everybody site or apologies accepted? They are both powerful.
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Karenca Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-01-04 06:51 PM
Response to Reply #28
33. apologiesaccepted...that's what I meant. nt
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gorbal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-01-04 05:19 PM
Response to Original message
29. Don't forget!
Dont forget the Rally this Saturday In Columbus!!!!

http://www.caseohio.info /

If you can't go get the word out and keep this thread kicked-

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...
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Kellis Donating Member (663 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-01-04 05:26 PM
Response to Original message
30. excellent post
Our soldiers would also not be dying and being maimed and wounded on a daily basis if Al Gore had been our President.
This man running the USA is a criminal and MUST BE STOPPED.
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Twist_U_Up Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-01-04 05:26 PM
Response to Original message
31. Irans next
same MO the drums are beating

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wrate Donating Member (376 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-01-04 06:58 PM
Response to Original message
34. You can say that again! The World is counting on you. n/t
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Democrat Dragon Donating Member (699 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-01-04 09:10 PM
Response to Original message
38. I can't stress this point enough!
Can't you belive it! Together we can save the world from a bunch of evil overlords who want to take over the world before destroying it!

:kick:

hmmm, that just sounds like something from a fantasy cartoon. :silly:
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