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WAYNE MADSEN Q&A DU 11/28 PM ------------A COMPILATION

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IAMREALITY Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-29-04 10:24 AM
Original message
WAYNE MADSEN Q&A DU 11/28 PM ------------A COMPILATION
That original thread is wayyyyyyyy too hard to follow. Since many DU'rs and probably many more lurkers are going to have an interest in this, I have compiled a list of all the Questions and Answers from the Q&A session with Mr. Madsen on 11/28. For ease of reading, I have taken only the important snippets of the questions, but supplied the ENTIRE answer. Here we go!

Q: Do you think NC is clean?

A: There is a possibility that the vote was fixed in NC also and Gaston County is suspicious -- but the scam I'm looking at that involved paying techs to rig the vote was said to definitely involve FL, TX, OH and CA. There may have been other states involved. But the info I received definitely mentioned these Big 4 states.

Q: what's the timeline? -- is there a glimmer of hope to get this out before the inauguration?

A: We are trying to get this story out and have a criminal investigation started to block the Ohio recert on Friday and the meeting of the Electoral College

Q: do you have the financial or moral support of the candidate we are fighting for?

A: I have been meeting with Kerry campaign and Democratic Party people here this weekend. As for me, I've taken on the Bushes and Karl Rove for years. I appeared on Greg Palast's "Bush Family Fortunes" and explained how the Bush Family uses their office to enrich themselves and their buddies. I'm not afraid of them at all. But I do have protection by my two pals: "Mr. Smith and Mr. Wesson." Unlike the person whose name I'm using as a screen name, Danny Casolaro, I trust no one except my friends, and I take another look at them from time to time.

Q: How do you know your sources are credible?

A: sources are risking their lives by talking

Q: One of the things that many of us are frustrated about, is not being able to do enough. Or, we feel that our efforts are going nowhere because of the mainstream media lock-down or what appears to be a lack of interest. Any suggestions on what we should be doing?

A: I share your frustration. The Kerry campaign is not the brightest light in the chandelier on being prepared for this fraud. You need to do something like the MeetUps. Organize. Petitions to the media & member of congress, news conferences with losing local Democratic candidates who may have been caught up in the fraud. Force the lazy corporate controlled media to pay attention but don't get arrested and clobbered around in the process. For Fox News: "If it bleeds, it leads."

Q: how confident are you that your sources are genuine, and are telling you the truth?

A: My sources are very brave for coming forth but they also know what the risks are if they are exposed. My major job other than reporting this story is protecting them.

Q: (No Direct Question)

A: Sorry for the delay... on the check --it is a bank check or cashier's check. Any EFT larger than $10K would be reported to FINCEN here in Tyson's Corner, VA. One for $29.6 would get automatically reported to CIA, NSA, FBI, IRS, DHS and others. They kept this to as paperless trail as possible.

Q: Are you confident check is genuine?

A: I have a color digital copy of the check. It is real, right down to anti-forgery features. I have refrained from posting it right now because at this stage the Rove types would doctor it and point to the fake version as proof of a forgery. I'm very aware what the right wing bloggers did to 60 Minutes. They may have merely cleaned up the documents for TV (I've seen that done at other networks). But the right jumped all over the docs and discredited Bill Burkett (who is solid) and Dan Rather.

Q: So just one huge check that they hope fly under the radar.

A: That's right -- this check likely generated bundles of cash used for the pay outs. The Bushes like to deal in suitcases of cash as do their friends the Saudis

Q: Is anyone working on that? Are Government officials (the legit ones) investigating this? Bush is losing friends at the CIA I would imagine we'd have some allies right now? Additionally the House Judiciary committee Dems would be interested in any info you have.

A: Some with those agencies have already offered their help to trace the money. I knew I could count on my old "buddies."

Q: May I ask why your sources chose you to investigate? Curious as to how you became a contact.

A: This came to me because of my ongoing work investigating 911 -- this info came as a result of a probe into Saudi money in Texas. It was fitting that my first source and I met at Ground Zero. This effort is as much for those who died that day as for those of us who have been left to deal with the perpetrators of that crime.

Q: One being the least and 100 being the most how sure are you that your evidence will come to the light of day and overturn the election?

A: The chances that a third rate burglary at the Watergate would bring down an administration were about a 4 out of 100 in 1972. These numbers should change but we had a much different kind of news media in 72 and 73. So this is going to be a rough ride.

Q: I live in Texas and was surprised you mentioned this state as part of the "fix". Is there anything I can do from here?

A: They used Texas to pad their national margin (the 3+ million votes). They used California for the same thing. Any unusual activity/behavior noticed at any polling place in Texas should be reported. I am forwarding complaints I'm receiving now to Democratic Party and Kerry campaign people.

Q: My question is whether you have any information about investigations in the following states: NY, NC, or Virginia

A: I communicated with someone who was aware of the project. That person definitely knew about those 4 states. There may have been others but the contact was not in a position to know about other states. But it can't be ruled out.

Q: In the states you mentioned, please tell us the counties, and precincts where we can find the anomalies.

A: My leads on that are that the counties and precincts were where there were unspecified "security actions" ordered by phony FBI and DHS people. This cleared the way for the techies to perform their "fixes." What I've also been told is that some non-US techies were involved.

Q: Non US techies, meaning Canadian?

A: Not heard about Canadians, but Mexicans, Brazilians and Russians

Q: i read k olberman blog and got a little sad that he seemed to be ragging on you. what about his point that why would k. r. tell his soldiers about the large and exact amount of money.

A: Keith probably doesn't get out of that bunker in Secaucus, NJ very often. Also, being an ESPN sportscaster may not have been the best experience to judge such a long lead investigative story.

Q: Any connection between Five Star Investments and FISX Group Limited? Or between Equity Financial Trust and FISX Group Limited? Also, any connection(s) to Caryle or Baker-Botts? Or Worldsec? Or Appleby Spurling and Kempe?

A: Not sure about FISX Group.

Baker a very real possibility though. Votes grabbed in FL were statewide, but especially the more populated counties where the padding could go virtually unnoticed.

Q: Has JJ or anyone from the DNC offered any assistance ?

A: I've been meeting with the Dems and Kerry folks all this weekend here in DC

Q: 1) it's so highly improbable from a logistics standpoint, based on your description and (2) it's not necessary -- those systems are riggable from inside AND via modem (or wireless) in real time. It's just not necessary. Why would they dream up a stunt like this, with all its potential for discovery, leaks, etc., when it's just NOT necessary?

A: The Bushes seldom deviate from their m.o., which is to use pass throughs, shell companies, and large amounts of money to get what they want. Yes, there is a lead on gaining access through modems. But that is where I have to be careful. The name I have connected with that is well known and he has sued journalists in the past for libel.

Q: Hopefully the DNC offered SOME support.

A: support was offered and was appreciated

Q: is this investigation the reason why the dnc & all have been quiet?

A: DNC-Pretty sad outfit -- they can't even hire a decent Karl Rove type. A "Karl Rove who likes dogs and kids, brakes for animals, but hates Republicans."

Q: There has been a lot of conjecture on here about the Kerry Campaign and/or Senior Democrats in general working "under the radar" on this

A: I just don't get the feeling that Kerry and the big shots have any master plan. But there are other Dems and Kerry people working on this angle of the story and they've been supportive.

Q: Is the reason that Bush was so eager to declare a mandate at his 11-4-04 (I think) press conference because he knew he didnt have one and that his padding efforts were successful?

A: Yes, Bush was real sure of himself, like a thief is when he knows he got away with a bank heist.

Q: We need information that only the hackers would have. Otherwise, your story is going to look like one more conspiracy theory.

A: Since the Bushes destroy their opponents, I am relying on getting the technical details of the rigging. The sources have done their jobs by passing on this information in good faith. I can't expect them to identify themselves.

Q: Have you uncovered any of the technical details? Sample code for instance?

A: This is still at the level of following the money trail to the perps..not there yet.

Q: P.S. When you bring Bush down ..I will nominate you to replace him

Madsen For President

A: My platform in free beer for everyone but the Neo Cons. Beer is not allowed in Camp X Ray, Guantanamo Bay.

Q: My biggest question is why would these guys be telling you this, since if everything you say is true, these guys could be killed for speaking to you?

A: And that is why I am trying to protect their identities. These people have already done more than could be expected considering who they are up against. Now its up to the independent media to get to the bottom of this.

Q: You said the Kerry campaign was not the brightest in being prepared. do you have a sense of what they WERE prepared for? Were they prepared more for recounts and suppression than actual fraud?

A: Those 17000 lawyers called up were mostly business lawyers, public policy types, etc. This needed criminal attorneys. I don't get a feeling that is what they planned for.

Q: Was the Carlyle Group involved in any way shape or form?

A: Not that I've discovered but Five Star Investments was set up when Daddy Bush was President for some very specific reasons that he knows about. He is very much involved in this affair.

Q: Just curious about this purge of the CIA. Seems to me some of those folks must be mighty P.O.'d. Also seems to me some of them would know this election is tainted and have the means to prove it. Any chance at all that there might be an "arrangement" for some info to be discovered "accidentally"?

A: Yes, meetings are on schedule

Q: The question is did the RNC know of these actions as they paid this criminal nation wide voter fraud organization that was directed by a former head of the RNC in Arizona, if so then an entire political party with powers to run national candidates and hold office is possibly criminally liable for voter fraud on a nation wide basis.

A: There are GOPers in Arizona who are dodgy to say the least. That's why I mentioned the Falcone bit in the article. That was gun running money that got to Bush-Cheney 2000 from Falcone interests.

Q: Are your sources talking to the feds

A: They dare not talk to the Feds -- the FBI may be involved in this (not all of them but that part that constantly serves as cover up artists for Bush). The state officials in Ohio are mostly Republicans -- a Taft, Inc. state. Florida - well that is Jeb's personal banana republic. Texas - N/A. That leaves California where the Dems still control some statewide offices.

Q: The NY Times or other supportive major newspapers would be a good place to go with this once you've assembled all the date, no?

A: I know this major media. They practice NIH -- "Not Invented Here" therefore, we don't want it.

Q: All I can relate is what a young girl that is friends of my daughter told me, she and others she knew were registered voters and she did in fact vote in the last election of 2000, but when she and some of her family members went to vote in the same preceint mind you as 2000, there was no record of her, or so they said and told others the same..

A: Yes, its their m.o. to screw those who have the least resources to challenge the disenfranchisement. Ask the African Americans in Florida and Georgia. This happened to them in 2000, 2002 and this year. Cynthia McKinney gets beaten in her mostly African American district in 2002 primary where e-voting was used and comes roarig back this year. She was being punished in 2002 for what she said about GWB and 911.

Q: I think that the largest contributor to Ohio's 2004 GOP campaigns, David Brennan, and his White Hat Management (manages charter schools and homeschool programs, HQ in Akron) company, had a hand in election fraud. According to watchdog groups, Sovereign Citizens are working toward gaining a foothold in County governments (the highest level of government they acknowledge), including the strategy of getting appointments to Boards of Elections and County Commissioners' offices. They also often impersonate various kinds of enforcement agents in order to intimidate people. When you follow the money, it leads up to the likes of Hudson Institute and Amway. There's also a connection to Kenneth Blackwell.

A : I have not looked into that but Amway, Unification Church, Hudson, Coors, Olin, Scaife and all those kooks are involved in this administration.

Q: (Question from a Naysayer about credibility, too long to sum)

A: But do trust funds that are awash in Saudi money that have been used in the past for political purposes by the Bushes that cut a check for $29.6 million on Oct 22 2004 mean the Saudis are interested in buying shopping malls in Texas? In this case, sources that are identified will be dead. I've had enough of Americans being killed by these Bush SOBs: 3000 on 911 and over 1300 in Iraq are quite enough. But I know Karl Rove would like to know who's talking.

Q: do you think the American people will ever see anyone held accountable?

A; What we need is Kiev. There was an anti-vote fraud rally held a week ago Friday in Lafayette Park in front of the White House. 30 people, incl media were there. Media consisted of Al Arabiya and Pacifica.

Q: Will you be able to connect it to the white house

A: I already have this linked to the White House, actually 2 White Houses: Bush I and Bush II

Q: Daniel Hopsicker? Have you thought about teaming up with Hopsicker?

A: I know his work but have not been in contact -- we've been working on some similar stories over the years though.

Q: please let me know if you've been in touch with Randi Rhodes or anyone at Air America Radio?

A: No, but I'd be happy to talk to her. I can be contacted at wmadsen777@aol.com

Q: Fisher story tied in at all?

A: My latest information is that there is a possible tie-in. I've asked someone to check it out on the ground in FL and MI.

Q: I noticed the money connection also to Osama.

A: The Bin Ladens and Bushes go together like Sears & Roebuck, Captain & Tennile and for the really old timers Horn & Hardart

Q: There have been prior instances of software being replaced with non-certified versions or versions with known issues. Is there any chance this happened again in this election cycle?

A: What I can tell you is that coders in Brazil were used to modify certain software. If anyone can check with the experts if any of these e voting firms were using outsourced programmers, that would be useful info.
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NVMojo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-29-04 10:32 AM
Response to Original message
1. good work!
KICK!
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bmoney07 Donating Member (304 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-29-04 10:33 AM
Response to Original message
2. So we may see something soon???
Kick!
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bmoney07 Donating Member (304 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-29-04 10:39 AM
Response to Reply #2
3. Kick
Kicking!!
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jamboi Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-29-04 01:25 PM
Response to Reply #3
38. Thank you so much for compiliing this!!! n/t
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jmknapp Donating Member (381 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-29-04 10:45 AM
Response to Original message
4. This stuff reminds me of old shaggy dog stories
with no "there" there.

The warning sign is the inclusion of BCCI. Eye-glazing nonsense. The same stuff was recycled to go after Clinton and Whitewater.

Nugan Hand, Danny Casolaro, Iran Contra, and the Rose Law firm cannot be far behind.

Oh, and of course CIA-connected cocaine smuggling out of the Mena airport. Except now we'll have to make it Crawford.
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Minstrel Boy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-29-04 10:53 AM
Response to Reply #4
9. Can you be serious?
The warning sign is the inclusion of BCCI. Eye-glazing nonsense.

Because if you are, you need to educate yourself fast, or have someone do it for you.
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Stand and Fight Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-29-04 11:02 AM
Response to Reply #9
11. Why are you attacking people?
Seems like every time someone says something contrary to your beliefs you attack them. I don't think that such verbalization encourage discussion in the least bit.
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Minstrel Boy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-29-04 11:14 AM
Response to Reply #11
14. I don't make personal attacks.
Edited on Mon Nov-29-04 11:15 AM by Minstrel Boy
But I'm not about to let someone who calls BCCI "eyeglazing nonsense" get a pass.

It's not "something contrary to my beliefs." It's contrafactual to history. And we have to own our history, if we're to understand the present.
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Joe Chi Minh Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-29-04 12:49 PM
Response to Reply #11
31. What a question!
Think about your username, and the text of your post, immediately following it:

"Stand and Fight"

"Why are you attacking people?" !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Evidently, suddenly preferring a perfectly civil discussion, when someone chops you off at the knees!!!!!

Encourage discussion? You people choose what you imagine will sound to us like a plausible name for a Democrat firebrand, make some absurd, truculent statement, then cry for your mummy, when Dems tell you in no uncertain terms to go home, and leave Dem politics to the the Dems themselves, i.e. the adults.

If you think Dems are going to respond to your twaddle, when it is always clearly based on false premises, it just makes you seem even more foolish. Until you base your arguments on sound premises, don't expect Dems to give you the time of day, still less attempt to reason with you.

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IAMREALITY Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-29-04 12:56 PM
Response to Reply #31
32. Calling Intellectual DU'rs
Edited on Mon Nov-29-04 01:08 PM by IAMREALITY
Can any of you explain to me WTF that post above is friggin talking about? Poster totalllllly lost me. Any of you as confused as I am as to what the heck he's talkin about?

:crazy:
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Stand and Fight Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-29-04 01:03 PM
Response to Reply #32
34. PM'd you
n/t
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Stand and Fight Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-29-04 01:00 PM
Response to Reply #31
33. Hold up
Don't you dare go there! There is no way in hell I am going to accept that kind of disrespect from anyone. I don't care who they are. And another thing for you, KCabotDullesMarxIII, I am a liberal and proud of it. My user name has nothing to do with the context you're trying to connect it to -- it has to do with Democrats standing up and fighting rather than rolling over to idiot Republican attacks from the like of Limbaugh and Coulter. Don't you dare sit there and try to tell me I'm not a Democrat. I was VERY politically active here in Oklahoma of all places for the past year and a half. I served as a Clark campaign county coordinator and volunteered countless hours of my time in the general presidential race. I'm a true blue Democrat, and I won't stand for you or anyone else challenging that with baseless accusations. If I see something that is wrong -- I'm going to point it out. You'd do yourself great justice to read my posts on here rather than attacking me, and then you'd see that your comments were wholly uncalled for. I'm disgusted by the fact that this election was stolen and that the MSM is doing nothing about it despite plenty of reported statistical anomalies and election day irregularities. I've written reporters, Congressmen, and Senators about all of this... Don't you dare tell me I'm not a Democrat, and don't you dare attack my integrity and love for Democracy.
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Carl Brennan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-29-04 01:44 PM
Response to Reply #31
46. Well said KCabot. Though it will fall on many a dumb, dumbs deaf ears. nt
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Carl Brennan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-29-04 01:36 PM
Response to Reply #11
44. Oh boy, here we go. The old "you hurt my feelings" gimmick.
MB "attacking" people. He has to be one of the most mild mannered people at DU. Yer just worried this story might go someplace, IMHO. :eyes:
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seemslikeadream Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-29-04 02:44 PM
Response to Reply #11
59. I didn't see any personal attacks
Edited on Mon Nov-29-04 02:47 PM by seemslikeadream
Could you point them out to me?

you say
"Seems like every time"

Where are all these times you're talking about?
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Ducks In A Row Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-29-04 02:47 PM
Response to Reply #11
60. I didn't read it as an attack, just pointing out that a bizarre thing
to write
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Straight Shooter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-29-04 12:07 PM
Response to Reply #9
20. BCCI was connected to Harken
Edited on Mon Nov-29-04 12:10 PM by Straight Shooter
It's a fact. They were implicated, and it was after georgie left Harken, but do you think these bush boys ever completely let go of the reins? No way, Jose.

=======================================

As for you, IAMREALITY, great job! :thumbsup:

edit: a link for BCCI/Harken: http://www.motherjones.com/news/feature/1992/09/bushboy...


"Through the Bahrain deal, the ties between BCCI and Harken Energy grew tighter. Sheikh Khalifah, the prime minister of Bahrain and brother of the emir, was also a shareholder in BCCI -- and it was Khalifah who played the key role in selecting Harken for the job. Sheikh Abdullah Bakhsh, in turn, was a business associate of BCCI front man Ghaith Pharoan; he bought a chunk of Harken's stock and placed his representative, Talat Othman, on Harken Energy's board of directors.

Did Junior or any of the other Harken Energy executives trade on the Bush name in these speculative business deals? None of the principals will answer questions. But this much is known: after the Harken-Bahrain deal was settled, Othman was added to the list of fifteen Arabs who met with President George Bush and National Security Adviser Brent Scowcroft three times in 1990 -- once just two days after Iraq invaded Kuwait -- while serving on Harken's board of directors."


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jamboi Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-29-04 01:55 PM
Response to Reply #4
47. Hiding the truth N plain sight so some will shrug & say "shaggy dog story"
That seems to be the Bush MO. Its just too awful to be readily believable by all but the "conspiracy theorists" who are oh so easily dismissed. This time it looks like the Bush folks have outdone themselves and over-reached.
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jmknapp Donating Member (381 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-29-04 06:14 PM
Response to Reply #47
71. Casolaro
Hey--no sooner did I mention the C-word, and it's Casolaromania on another Madsen thread! What a riot.

This stuff is pure twaddle. It's less left or right than cloud-cuckoo land.
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jamboi Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-29-04 06:30 PM
Response to Reply #71
72. The truth is stranger than fiction! n/t
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Minstrel Boy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-29-04 06:42 PM
Response to Reply #71
73. "It's less left or right than cloud-cuckoo land"
It's less left or right than life or death.



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texpatriot2004 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-29-04 10:46 AM
Response to Original message
5. Thanks for consolidating this discussion. It's helpful.
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Shalom Donating Member (832 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-29-04 10:48 AM
Response to Original message
6. THANKS FOR GREAT EFFORT !!! (vs. Just Spouting Off)
Lots of people love to use DU to spout off opinions (myself included!), so it's wonderful of you to take the time to put this together.

THANKS AGAIN !!
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GregD Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-29-04 10:52 AM
Response to Original message
7. where is the original thread?
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jamboi Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-29-04 01:57 PM
Response to Reply #7
48. Here's the link to the original thread:
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Hamoth Donating Member (292 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-29-04 10:53 AM
Response to Original message
8. Something Madsen should know...
http://www.pcworld.com/news/article/0,aid,118664,00.asp

I don't know HOW he procured a color copy of this check...but the machine that copied it can probably be traced. This is important if he wants to A: protect his sources, or B: Verify their authenticity.

They are only risking their lives if they are trustworthy. If they are making this up, or Rovian plants then they risk nothing but our credibility. Personal risk is not a measure of veracity where degree of risk hinges upon said veracity.

As you were.

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Straight Shooter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-29-04 12:13 PM
Response to Reply #8
21. Send the info to Mr. Madsen
wmadsen777@aol.com

If tracing this particular check is possible, it's important to know whether the one who does the tracing can be trusted.
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Vidar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-29-04 11:00 AM
Response to Original message
10. Thanks, IAMREALITY, nicely summarized & provocative.
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Stand and Fight Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-29-04 11:03 AM
Response to Original message
12. Super!!
Great work, IAMREALITY! This will make it easier to read the Q&A without all the other posts!!! You're my hero for the day!

:D
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Tuddie Donating Member (56 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-29-04 11:10 AM
Response to Original message
13. Heard Madsen on the boadcast! Kick
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jamboi Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-29-04 03:53 PM
Response to Reply #13
64. Did we get a full transcript of that & is it available on archives yet?n/t
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Imajika Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-29-04 11:22 AM
Response to Original message
15. What a bunch garbage...
How some seemingly reasonable people could get sucked into believing such a total load of crap will probably never cease to amaze me.

Madsen deserves years and years of bad karma for toying with the emotions of so many like this. This story is utterly laughable - so ridiculous it almost reads like something you'd find in The Onion or some other satire site. Comeon people, this guy is likely just making this stuff up. And by the way, just because he claims to have "sources", doesn't mean the sources are worth a damn. I've got multiple sources that tell me that swamp monsters live in the creek behind my house, but relying on children, a mentally disturbed neighbor and the town drunk for information is not very wise now is it?

I just did a quick search on Madsen and some of the first two things I turned up was his article, from June I believe, about the impending Plame indictments that would go all the way to the top, and the second was his October story about the imminent Bush administration attack on Iran. Where are the Plame indictments? I don't recall seeing any attack on Iran before or after the election? Both stories were silly, and this one is no different.

Geeze, I guess some people want to believe something bad enough they will get fooled by just about anything. Maybe I need to get out of computers and become a con man, it does seem true that a sucker is born everyday.

Imajika
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IAMREALITY Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-29-04 11:51 AM
Response to Reply #15
16. Hey, Wake Up
No one is swearing by this like the gospel, so please get off your high horse.

This is one of the important events of our lifetime, and as responsible patriots of society we are going to have an open mind about any possible piece of the puzzle that comes are way. This is no different. Though there are reasons to disbelieve it, the articles/story has gained far more credibility the last few days do to his additional info. Is it enough to call it hard fact? Of course not. Is it enough for us to pay attention to, research, investigate, and keep an open mind with that there is a possibility some of it can be true? ABSOLUTELY.

Dimissing this story OUTRIGHT is just simply irresponsible and stupid.
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freedom for all Donating Member (55 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-29-04 12:05 PM
Response to Reply #16
19. Thanks
IAMREALITY for reposting this info..You as well as many other DU'ers are true heroes also...
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AuntPatsy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-29-04 01:27 PM
Response to Reply #16
41. Agree with you ....
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democraticinsurgent Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-29-04 12:28 PM
Response to Reply #15
25. neither of those stories are any indication of Madsen's credibility
Remember than in the Plame investigation, Bush, Cheney and Rove all were called to testify. That the indictments haven't come down yet is probably due to the election. Fitzgerald may be independent to a degree but as a Republican he wasn't going to indict anyone big before November, though we all wish he had.

As far as Iran, there's enough evidence that this is on the drawing boards that Madsen probably had good intelligence to draw from. That they didn't do it (yet) probably says more about Buscho's arsenal of strategic options re: the election (stealing it) than anything else.

I applaud Madsen for sticking his neck out there. It's the only way any of these stories are going to go anywhere. Especiall this one.

I heard his radio interview and followed the entire thread last night. I found him to be very credible, but of course he's being very careful. A lot of now-dead people have poked their nose into the inner workings of Bushco.
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Ducks In A Row Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-29-04 02:43 PM
Response to Reply #15
58. just keep telling yourself that, rove is counting on it!
:)
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seito Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-29-04 11:58 AM
Response to Original message
17. Great work IAMREALITY
A true DU hero. Saving democracy one blog at a time.

:yourock:
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kk897 Donating Member (829 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-29-04 12:16 PM
Response to Reply #17
22. I like that line
"Saving democracy one blog at a time"

It's catchy!
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s-cubed Donating Member (860 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-29-04 12:32 PM
Response to Reply #17
27. Thanks for your hard work
I was up late last night reading the original thread and getting very bleary-eyed. You've done people a real service in doing this.

PS. Thanks for your help to me on the OK numbers - I really appreciated that.
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eleny Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-29-04 12:04 PM
Response to Original message
18. Nominated for the DU Home Page
Thanks for your work on this!
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New Earth Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-29-04 12:19 PM
Response to Reply #18
23. nooo!!!
i think that is a bad idea!!! if this story ends up being untrue, or we find out that it wasn't really Madsen here last night, the reputation of this site and board will go DOWN. I see other boards getting their news updates and information from THIS board. Esp. the Randi Rhodes board, they depend on the info from this board to be usually accurate. Having it discussed in a forum is one thing, but not on the home page of the site!!! Half of me believes this story might lead somewhere, but the other half is very skeptical and cautious and i really don't think DU should risk it's integrity by posting a story that hasn't yet been confirmed on their home page. I'm only saying this because i care!!!! Please stop nominating it for home page!
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IAMREALITY Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-29-04 12:24 PM
Response to Reply #23
24. Get a Grip!
Edited on Mon Nov-29-04 12:26 PM by IAMREALITY
There is nothing wrong with this being on the home page. There is nothing wrong with there being threads on this, or visibility to this. No one, I repeat, NO ONE, is declaring this as utter fact. But it is still noteworthy, and most definitely of interest to DU. You can read it and make your own opinions, that is fine. But come on, Randi Rhodes isn't just gonna read everything on DU and automatically take is as fact, she still will use journalistic discretion. And if she thinks it is worthy to discuss, then good for her!

And the concept that it wasn't really Mr. Madsen is just utterly ridiculous. It was him, plain and simple.
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peacetalksforall Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-29-04 12:34 PM
Response to Reply #23
28. That is a crazy statement - that people depend on the info here to be
accurate. Accurate? That is make believe. This is a pre-certified forum. Many people know what they're talking about. Many people are only exploring and making suppositions and a lot of other things.
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New Earth Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-29-04 12:38 PM
Response to Reply #28
29. do you ever go to the Randi Rhodes board?
they paste posts from here every day. actually, that is the board where i first of DU and started coming here to post. I'M NOT KNOCKING ANYONE SPECIFICALLY, I AM WORRIED ABOUT THE REPUTATION. you are acting like i'm some kind of evil loon. i post here too, i care about the election fraud too, and i hope to god Madsen's story is true and we hear more details soon. I AM BEING CAUTIOUS. what is wrong with that???
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IAMREALITY Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-29-04 12:49 PM
Response to Reply #29
30. Because You are Acting Like This Can Hurt Our Reputation
That is an absurd assinuation (hehe).

This is what we do here at DU. We discuss relevant events to our topics of interest. That is all this is. Why are you hell bent on thinking that people are going to read it and think "Oh my God, you see those crazy DU'rs? Without even doing any research at all they are buying the Madsen stuff 100% as fact! Let's post it on Randi's board and mock them. We'll ruin their reputation but good!"

I mean come on, that is absurd. So what if they cut and paste? This is of interest to them to. Doesn't mean everyone is going to buy it, but it is definitely worth being aware of! I'm not sure what your problem with this is, and I can understand your fears of certain things, but this is definitely over the top dramatic.

Don't sweat it, it's all good. No harm is going to come to DU for investigating this. After all, that is what DU stands for, not ruling out anything until PROVEN otherwise, and having an open forum to discuss all possibilities responsibly.
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peacetalksforall Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-29-04 01:11 PM
Response to Reply #29
35. I'm not commenting on whether I think the thread should be on the
front page or not because that would involve learning about what usually goes there and whether there is criteria. I don't have the time to form an opinion about that.

But, I think it's OK to talk about the Madsen claim and escalate it just as people did when they heard what Burkett had to say about the AWOL visit of Bartlett or was it Allbaugh to the records office before Bush even ran for Governor (if I have that timing right). Burkett spoke out a long time before CBS got involved and that was all over DU and probably helped its 'outing'.

I am only saying that anyone who relies on what is said at DU to be accurate is going to get in trouble. The Madsen assertion is only a claim at this point with a big arrow pointing to the Trust Company (or companies) he names.

I get your point about being cautious...I'm only addressing the issue of anyone relying on DU for accuracy.

For me, DU is like a funnel - everything is dumped in and little by little the facts fall out - when there are enough of them and enough interest.
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IAMREALITY Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-29-04 01:19 PM
Response to Reply #35
36. Very Very Good Higher Class
I really appreciate your style. It is refreshing...
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New Earth Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-29-04 01:23 PM
Response to Reply #35
37. thank you
you have me calmed down.
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Ducks In A Row Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-29-04 02:51 PM
Response to Reply #23
61. randi does her own research, I don't think she's in any danger
:)
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peacetalksforall Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-29-04 12:29 PM
Response to Original message
26. Why naysay?
Noone is betting their house on this being accurate or real.

But:

Honesty in voting is what this country is supposed to stand for.
Those implicated had everything to lose.
They've done it before.
Part of their plan may have been to intentionally steal in a variety of ways to make it harder to investigate in a short period of time.

Why ask people to report what they saw or what happened to them?
Why should volunteers do anything? Why even vote?

First you gather, then you analyze.
Listening to people naysay here is just like sitting in a room for the purpose of brainstorming and a few knock down the thoughts as they come out of the mouths.

Practice caution? Yes.
Swallow it all? No.
Hope? Depends.
Interesting? Extremely.
Absolute truth? Who knows.
Let it play out? Absolutely!

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Joe Chi Minh Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-29-04 01:25 PM
Response to Reply #26
39. I think Faye
Edited on Mon Nov-29-04 01:28 PM by KCabotDullesMarxIII
wonders whether it might not be more prudent and professional to discuss Mr Madsen's research exhaustively, but not seem to prioritise it to the extent of making it the Home page; when there is already so much hard, irrefutable evidence of electoral fraud already in the public domain, chronicled by other eminently-accredited professionals, lawyers, statisticians, etc. So mountainous is the volume of this kind of evidence, that it seems to me inconceivable that the truth can continue to be kept under wraps, and its due consequences fail to prevail.

Some journalists in the UK, in both the press and cable TV, continue to peddle the grotesque notion that JFK was killed by the one magic bullet; and that the many people who suggest otherwise are "conspiracy theorists".

The reason why it is still possible to do so, is a) because of the enormity of the crime in so many of its aspects, and b) because of the Establishment's power to say "what is" and "what isn't". The two factors which suggest that making Mr Madsen's investigation seem to be the "cornerstone" solution of the current crisis would be unwise, at this stage. For those reasons, I understand Faye's fear.
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Bushfire Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-29-04 01:26 PM
Response to Original message
40. Forwarding to a contact at the Progressive magazine
Will keep DU abreast of their interest in the story.
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jamboi Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-30-04 01:11 AM
Response to Reply #40
85. Did they respond? n/t
Edited on Tue Nov-30-04 01:11 AM by jamboi
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saracat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-29-04 01:31 PM
Response to Original message
42. Why would the DNC work with anyone who wrote this?
http://themeridiannews.com/clark.html

Wesley Clark for President? Another Con Job from the Neo-Cons
By Wayne Madsen

Let it never be said the neo-conservatives are not persistent. That's why they must be rounded up by the FBI and charged with violating the Racketeer Influenced and Corrupt Organizations (RICO) statutes. But let's save that issue for another time.

The latest trick of the neo-cons is running retired General Wesley Clark for President as a Democrat. But not just any Democrat -- a "New Democrat." The same bunch that are pushing Joe Lieberman's candidacy are obviously hedging on their bets and want to have Clark in the race as a potential vice presidential candidate (to ensure their continued influence in a future Democratic administration of Howard Dean, John Kerry, or Dick Gephardt) or as a "go-to" candidate in the event that Lieberman stumbles badly in the first few Democratic primaries next year.

The "New Democrats" (neo-cons) are as much masters at the perception management (lying) game as their GOP counterparts (Dick Cheney, Paul Wolfowitz, and Donald Rumsfeld). Clark's presidential candidacy announcement in Little Rock is one warning sign. This city is a sort of "Mecca" for the neo-con Democratic Leadership Council (DLC) and its main nurturers, Al From and Bruce Reed. It was from Little Rock where the DLC propelled a little known governor named Bill Clinton into the White House. And although Clinton did not turn out exactly as conservative as the DLC hoped for, his support for globalization and selected use of U.S. military power abroad were neo-con keystone successes.

<</ SNIP>>






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AuntPatsy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-29-04 01:33 PM
Response to Reply #42
43. He stated last night his lack of faith in the DNC which if I am
not mistaken, many on this very board have done the very same thing time and time again...
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saracat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-29-04 01:40 PM
Response to Reply #43
45. He states above "support was offered and appreciated"
He also claims to have met with the Kerry Campaign and Party officials. Did you read his article on Clark? It makes no sense that they would even see him. Other than in court . To sue him.
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AuntPatsy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-29-04 02:05 PM
Response to Reply #45
50. I read quite a bit on him last night, As we are all well aware of
just because you disagree with one candidate running for the dem nomination, it does not mean your voice is not heard by other's in the party. If such were the case, then it is easy to assume that all the talk from each candidate in regards to others of the same party during the primaries are just that...

To look at such that way, we would have to assume that the primaries are nothing more than show and tell drama with no real merit other than to entertain the masses....

So in essence, to not believe such, it would make perfect sense that some in the dem party are talking to Wayne, and he did admit though that he was not exactly waiting for much in help from Kerry himself...

The workings of a good cloak and dagger novel ;-)
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saracat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-29-04 02:14 PM
Response to Reply #50
52. But in general he trashes the Party. We all have
our complaints but he calls the Dems neo cons for god's sake! And most stuff he has written is a little crackpotish. But what the hey. Even a stopped clock is right twice a day! ;-)
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AuntPatsy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-29-04 02:29 PM
Response to Reply #52
56. Lol so true, all this is enough to make one dizzy enough that
one's eye sight could become completely disoriented... ;-)
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Ducks In A Row Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-29-04 04:07 PM
Response to Reply #52
66. let's see: Reid is anti-choice and the party's choice for minority leader
this even after Reid cuts a deal with the rethugs that lets in judges who will fuck us over for quite a few years.

the dnc rolled over on election fraud.

all the talk about how we have to go right to beat the rethugs.

oh, there are too many pieces of crap acts from higher up party dems I wonder sometimes about it.
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jamboi Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-29-04 02:03 PM
Response to Reply #42
49. Probably because their smart enough to evaluate each story 4 its own merit
Why should they care whatever he thinks about Clark? This story has to stand or fall on its own merit.
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saracat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-29-04 02:16 PM
Response to Reply #49
53. Good point. But I think,in most of his writings, he makes it clear
he is gunning for the Democratic Party. Maybe it is a case of know thy enemy?
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jamboi Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-29-04 10:18 PM
Response to Reply #53
79. Gunning for Dem's -- hardly. Just working vs fraud wherever its found
If the Dems are screwing up he seems fine to call a spade a spade. I'm fine w/ that. If we don't allow self-criticism then we'll find ourselves in a world of hurt!
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saracat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-30-04 12:03 AM
Response to Reply #79
83. I don't disagree. It just makes me wonder about the level
of cooperation he claims to be getting. Meetings etc. I myself am furious with the DLC domination of our Party. But JMHO
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Ducks In A Row Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-29-04 02:55 PM
Response to Reply #42
62. doesn't sound like he's working with the DNC
maybe with a person or two who may have their own personal involvement with DNC, but not DNC itself.

which I'm grateful for, because the current DNC is purely useless and will fuck this up if they get their hands on it.

in fact, I think the dnc heads would turn over the sources to rove for a promise to let the dems in congress have a sliver of power.
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BlueCaliDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-29-04 02:07 PM
Response to Original message
51. I Join eleny & Nominate this for the DU Homepage too. (11/29/2004)
I believe that this can be the start of a big story that just might shatter what most Americans refuse to accept; that American Society is corrupt.

We don't like it; it hurts to see that face in the mirror, and it cuts us deep in our soul, but I believe in the old adage: If you wanna make an omelet, you've gotta break a few eggs; the "omelet" in this case, being our self-deluding of how we see our America.

One does better in battle possessing a clear outlook of the battlefield.

Whether or not this all proves to be true, I believe the Madsen interview deserves to be highlighted, and "out there", and given the opportunity for a healthy debate.

That's why I'm joining eleny in nominating your post and this thread to the DU Homepage.
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texpatriot2004 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-29-04 02:27 PM
Response to Original message
54. kick
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texpatriot2004 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-29-04 02:28 PM
Response to Original message
55. kick n/t
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jamboi Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-02-04 03:23 PM
Response to Reply #55
94. .
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jamboi Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-02-04 03:40 PM
Response to Reply #94
95. .
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jamboi Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-02-04 04:19 PM
Response to Reply #95
96. .
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Ducks In A Row Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-29-04 02:41 PM
Response to Original message
57. The Q: (No Direct Question) was mine, I asked early (#24)
He just answered it off another post.

My question boiled down to "any reasons why a paper check, not a wire transfer?
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IAMREALITY Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-29-04 02:56 PM
Response to Reply #57
63. There were several like that
But even though I had a feeling it might have been yours, I didn't want to make any definitive assumptions. Figured his answer was clear enough indication of the context of the question even without the question being present.

But Thanks for Nit-Picking :) j/k
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jamboi Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-29-04 04:01 PM
Response to Original message
65. Is there a "permanent" place we can post this? Maybe at Kos? n/t
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genius Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-29-04 04:09 PM
Response to Original message
67. More important about Bush and Bin Laden
When someone mentioned Sonny and Cher, Madsen pointed out that, unlike Bush and bin Laden, Sonny and Cher broke up. The clear implication of his statement is that Bush and Bin Laden are still together.
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jamboi Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-29-04 04:10 PM
Response to Original message
68. E-mail from Madsen re: upcoming debunking attempts
Edited on Mon Nov-29-04 04:11 PM by jamboi
Madsen writes:

<...>
BTW, This story is going deeper into the rabbit hole...there will soon be some official denials and a major effort to debunk the story. Some people are getting worried.

wayne
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IAMREALITY Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-29-04 04:59 PM
Response to Reply #68
69. Jamboi,
Is there any more to his email? Any further correspondence? Any details would be appreciated.

Thanks!

P.S. Thanks so much for your efforts last night.
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jamboi Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-29-04 06:10 PM
Response to Reply #68
70. E-mail from WM re: future Q&As
jamboi writes:

Any possiblity of future DU Q&A?

Maybe after I get my head above the alligators and sharks -- I think my next article will generate much more animated discussion.

wm
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mirandapriestly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-29-04 06:47 PM
Response to Reply #70
74. oh goody! eom
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IAMREALITY Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-29-04 08:10 PM
Response to Reply #70
75. Next Article Tonight Or Tomorrow Sometime Jamboi?
Do you know the expected delivery of this next article?
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jamboi Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-29-04 08:27 PM
Response to Reply #75
76. He didn't specify yet. I asked him to preannounce it though n/t
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Evening Star Donating Member (73 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-29-04 08:37 PM
Response to Reply #70
78. A little Research
http://www.diebold.com/news/newsdisp.asp?id=2636

http://www.wired.com/news/business/0,1367,61654,00.html

A spokesman for the electoral commission here says the government has also advised India and the Ukraine on election procedures.
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Mike Nelson Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-29-04 08:35 PM
Response to Original message
77. Thanks! -- TWO MORE QUESTIONS
Nice to see DU "on the hunt!"

Two more questions: who sent top Democrats Anthrax Letters on 9/11? Why doesn't anyone in Washington talk about these terrorists?

Think about it.
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shuffnew Donating Member (306 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-30-04 06:33 AM
Response to Reply #77
87. Good question.. re: Democrats anthrax letters investigation status....
Edited on Tue Nov-30-04 07:14 AM by shuffnew
The TVC (Tradtional Values Coalition) was one of the hot topics on the antrax investigation, but to my knowledge there was never any indication that anyone was actually pinpointed (TVC or otherwise) as being responsible for the democrats antrax letters and nothing definitive ever publicized to my knowledge. It did appear that any investigations on the antrax letters to democrats were either dropped, covered up, or not pursued at all. Who knows?

One that I had been following closely at the time was the controversy involving Andrea Lafferty (Executive Director of TVC -- some link references and snips on the subject below) who along with her father Rev. Lou Sheldon (Chairman/Founder of TVC) had close ties to Tom DeLay. TVC is a right-wing extremist organization who is anti-everything to do with "freedom" that our constitution stands for from "freedom of speech", "freedom of choice", etc. who are anti-abortion, anti-stem cell, anti-gay rights, etc. and constantly make attacks on anything to do with freedom and are proactively trying to destroy our constitutional rights (much like the Falwell tribe). They attack any freedom of speech that does not cater to right-wing loonies (such as radio (NPR, Nickelodeon for kids cable tv, etc.)); they think that no funding should be allowed for HIV and AIDs (the cure is to stop having risky sex v throwing tax payer dollars down the toilet!);, etc., etc. etc. Purely right-wing lunatics from hell! (IHMO anyway). TVC had been extremely critical of political figures who had received the antrax in that timeframe. So, it was a natural thing for me to follow, especially being a native Texan who is totally disgusted with the political corruption that often leads back to Texas connections in the end.

Andrea Lafferty is married to Jim Lafferty, political consultant from Washington who used to work for Tom DeLay before he moved on to work for Mass. Citizens for marriage in 2002 and again in 2003. Jim is a catholic and Andrea is a Protestant evangelical (both attacking liberals in Washington for undue cause constantly). Andrea and her father Rev. Lou Sheldon are extreme right-wing loonies (IHMO). My interest was perked on this mostly due to the TVC connections with the DeLay mob here in Texas (my home state), so I followed the situation and accusations fairly closely.

In any case, I personally suspected the antrax may have had a Texas root source -- why? just a deep gut feeling... because of the obvious corruption in Texas in the entire political process. From Halliburton (Cheney gang) and Tom DeLay, for instance (who has been one of the leaders of corruption his entire 20+ years so he has many puppets working his agenda, adversely affecting not only Texas, but entire world). Houston area (especially) seems to be attracting many of these corrupt political figures and attack groups -- even "Bush I" holing up here now, SBV, Bob Perry Home Builders (one of the primary funders of the SBV), DeLay, etc.... abundant corruption of right-wing lunatics established in Texas. Merciless right-wing agendas.

Whoever was responsible could have likely been connected to some right-wing organization and I can fully understand why any investigative reporter for NPR might have made contact with any such organization (such as TVC) to see if they had been contacted by the FBI for questioning about the antrax distribution to democrat politicians that they had been highly criticizing at that time.

Will we ever know about the source of the antrax? probably not (especially if there are any close ties to the WH and any of their designated puppets). I'm not accusing TVC (just using this as a known example of discussion on the antrax situation at the time that I followed rather closely)... but I do feel there is a high probability that some right-wing extremist individual or organization with tight political ties could have been involved (therefore, terminating any "real" investigation).

1) Right wing organizations (such as TVC): ( Re: below "People for American Way" website describes the TVC agenda)
http://www.pfaw.org/pfaw/general/default.aspx?oid=8992&...

(excerpt... snip)
Quotes from Andrea Sheldon Lafferty: Andrea Sheldon Lafferty says supporters of hate crimes laws that include sexual orientation as a protected category "are trying to take a handful of hideous, horrible crimes and use that to force acceptance of the homosexual lifestyle."
(Re URL: http://www.gfn.com/archives/story.phtml?sid=7524%22 )

In reference to fetal tissue research, Lafferty says "I think we're going to have to apologize to the Nazis for this."
(Re URL: http://www.pfaw.org/pfaw/general/default.aspx?oid=3292 )

Quotes from Louis Sheldon: As Homosexuals continue to make inroads into public schools, more children will be molested and indoctrinated into the world of homosexuality. Many of them will die in that world. (Homosexuals Recruit Public School Children, by Louis Sheldon, special report, Vol. 18, No. 11)

Americans should understand that their attitudes about homosexuality have been deliberately and deceitfully changed by a masterful propaganda/marketing campaign that rivals that of Adolph Hitler. In fact, many of the strategies used by homosexuals to bring about cultural change in America are taken from Hitlers writings and propaganda welfare manuals. (Homosexual Propaganda Campaign Based on Hitlers Big Lie Technique, by Louis Sheldon, special report, Vol. 18, No. 10)

"Give us a few more years under the belt and we will learn how to replace many of the school board members. Give us more time to understand how the system works, and we'll work the system even better than one could ever imagine." (CNN News, 9/2/90)

"There is a war waging in America. The battle is over values, beliefs and the cultural basis of western civilization.... the elitist avant-garde arts community uses the NEA to advertise and disseminate their political beliefs. The NEA then uses our scarce tax dollars to fund works which are intended to shock Americans into an acceptance of dysfunctional behavioral lifestyles and to destroy the family." (Hearing on the NEA, 4/91)
(end of excerpt... snip)

2) Are smears a traditional value?
http://conwebwatch.tripod.com/stories/2002/tvcnpr.html
(excerpt... snip)
"The Traditional Values Coalition demonstrates just how this preemptive media strike works. In early January, TVC executive director Andrea Lafferty was contacted by David Kestenbaum, a reporter for National Public Radio. According to Lafferty, Kestenbaum asked if her organization had been contacted by the FBI regarding the investigation of anthrax spores sent to senators Tom Daschle and Patrick Leahy, among others.

TVC in the past has been specificially critical of Daschle and Leahy for allegedly perpetrating an "undercurrent of anti-God bigotry" by dropping "so help me God" from oaths administered to nominees who come before Senate committees for confirmation. "Why are Daschle and Leahy so fearful that nominees might swear before God to tell the truth?" Lafferty is quoted as saying in one TVC press release.

It's a perfectly logical assumption that a group with a history of criticism of senators who later receive deadly spores in the mail would get a visit or phone call at some point from investigators looking to find out who did it. Hey, investigators are supposed to follow every possible lead, aren't they? NPR's Kestenbaum, who was apparently to contact groups and individuals who the FBI may have talked to in order to find out the gist of the investigation, seems to have thought so. And thus, Kestenbaum contacted Lafferty."
(end of excerpt... snip)

3) Is Intimidation a Traditional Value?
http://conwebwatch.tripod.com/stories/2002/tvcnpr.html

4) Committee Hearing (read Andrea Lafferty's and others testimony)
http://energycommerce.house.gov/107/hearings/07102002He... :

Andrea Lafferty's testimony from above hearing: http://energycommerce.house.gov/107/hearings/07102002He...
(excerpt snip....)
"Thursday, February 28th turned into Expose NPR Day in the U.S. House of Representatives. A number of Members of Congress took to the floor to denounce NPR.
Congressmen DeLay, Blunt, Foley, Calvert and Tiahrt all spoke eloquently on the floor about the irresponsible behavior of NPR.

Majority Whip Tom DeLay called NPRs conduct outrageous and said NPR had ignored their basic responsibilities as journalists. Chief Deputy Majority Whip Roy
Blunt stated, NPR broke their contract with the American people by reporting hearsay as fact, that this report was completely inaccurate and irresponsible and that
Congress should look long and hard at the recipients of taxpayer dollars. "
(end of excerpt... snip)

5) A Family Business (A Washington Post article on Rev. Sheldon & daughter Andrea Lafferty... May 2004) http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A41187-20...


Thanks for asking this question, as it is an important one! Just what did happen to the Democrat's antrax letter investigation? Maybe with all the digging in Texas corruptiveness lately, something will crop up (my personal gut feel theory that there could well have been some Texas connection... gut feel anyway).


SHUFFNEW "A Texan who is proud to be a Democrat!"
:kick:
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Mike Nelson Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-30-04 10:38 PM
Response to Reply #87
89. Thank you for that well-thought out answer. this confirms my...
...suspicions. I would have to state that I can't believe this was just some "lone" conservative "nut." This had to be an organized attempt to take advantage of 9/11 by killing powerful Democrats.

If there is more of a connection to 9/11... this means that attack may have also had "home grown" roots. Very hard to accept... certainly, it wasn't Iraq, though!

Why doesn't anyone talk about the Anthrax letters. Nothing. Even the Democrats don't talk about it. Also, a "lone nutcast" would be caught. These conservative terrorists must have friends in "high places."

They did try to round up an innocent person and string him up, I know... That didn't work.

So, how could this be connected to "Votergate?" Well, you go to the same type of people to "handle" these kinds of dirty dealings.

One of the men who received an Anthrax letter has a known "enemy" -- this is where any investigator would begin looking... Patrick Leahy was told to "Go f**k yourself" by Dick Cheney. This would make the Vice President a prime suspect. I would begin by asking him about the "Shadow Government" he and Bush announced had been set up...

I'd like to know what the "Shadow Government" does, exactly, and how much Anthrax do they have? Maybe there is no connection... we won't know if nobody looks...
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shuffnew Donating Member (306 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-01-04 12:30 AM
Response to Reply #89
90. Yes, and the "Shadow Government"...
Edited on Wed Dec-01-04 12:42 AM by shuffnew
I agree. It could not be a "lone ranger" and would be a very hard one for them to dupe off on us. Actually, there were at least two known enemies... Daschle & Leahy.

On Sept. 11th even those that were lined up to suceed the office of President said they "were not sure" if they had been informed and Byrd "didn't know" of the "Shadow Government" (ref: article 3 below - now, isn't that a bit amazing?!?!) But, we do know that apparently Bush, Cheney, and Rice were informed how to bunker up per the "Shadow Government" rules. But, it seems they may have bunkered up a bit early to me.

1) Shadow Government Is at Work in Secret
After Attacks, Bush Ordered 100 Officials to Bunkers Away From Capital to Ensure Federal Survival

http://www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/wp-dyn/A20584-2002Feb...

By Barton Gellman and Susan Schmidt
Washington Post Staff Writers
Friday, March 1, 2002; Page A01

(snip1)
"President Bush has dispatched a shadow government of about 100 senior civilian managers to live and work secretly outside Washington, activating for the first time long-standing plans to ensure survival of federal rule after catastrophic attack on the nation's capital.

Execution of the classified "Continuity of Operations Plan" resulted not from the Cold War threat of intercontinental missiles, the scenario rehearsed for decades, but from heightened fears that the al Qaeda terrorist network might somehow obtain a portable nuclear weapon, according to three officials with firsthand knowledge. U.S. intelligence has no specific knowledge of such a weapon, they said, but the risk is thought great enough to justify the shadow government's disruption and expense."
(snip1 off)

My Comments: After reading the above Washington Post article, my thought was... I thought they were all already in a bunker
before the 9/11 devastation (Bush, Cheney, Rice, et al). Let's see... Cheney & Rice watching CNN from their bunker at Camp David and GWB holed up in his bunker in the Florida school (then followed by a long plane ride). With our country afterwards waiting hours to be addressed by any of our leaders (isn't it the job of the President and Vice President to address our nation and calm our fears in a time of crisis?)... the first "leader" of any stature to address our nation was Tony Blair of UK who addressed our nation way before any of our leaders did. Did we elect Tony Blair to do this for us? If I recall correctly, I believe it was about 12 hrs before our President addressed us.

2)America's Shadow government (08/03/2004 18:34), by David R. Hoffman, Legal Editor of PRAVADA
(below is the URL link to the english version from Pravada - shows how other countries may view this so-called "Shadow Government")
http://english.pravda.ru/mailbox/22/101/397/13615_milit...

(snip1... introduction of the article...)
"During his farewell address in the year 1961 outgoing President Dwight D. Eisenhower warned that "In the councils of government, we must guard against the acquisition of unwarranted influence, whether sought or unsought, by the military-industrial complex (hereinafter MIC). The potential for the disastrous rise of misplaced power exists and will persist."
(snip1 off)

(snip 2... conclusion of the above article...)
"In today's America, with all the talk about "winning the war on terrorism," few people have realized that, in many ways, the terrorists have already won significant victories. Terrorism, after all, is simply the installation and perpetuation of fear. Americans are told that terrorists "resent our democracy and our freedoms," yet it was not terrorists who placed democracy under the control of the MIC, who destroyed democracy during the coup of 2000, or who shattered those freedoms through the passage of the "Patriot Act" and the quashing of voices of dissent."

"A popular Biblical saying goes, "What does it profit a person to gain the world and lose his own soul?" The same can be said of a nation. All the wealth and power the thieves, the liars, the censors, the propagandists, the hypocrites, the venal, the warmongers, and, of course, the MIC have accumulated by exploiting hatred and fear will be constrained by the limitations of their own mortality. If justice delayed is not justice denied, then one day these criminals will be compelled to atone for their crimes. The evils of the Bush dictatorship have demonstrated the depths that far too many in America are willing to sink. Hopefully there are still enough voices left to show the world how high America can rise."
(snip 2 off)

3) Congress Not Advised Of Shadow Government: Bush Calls Security 'Serious Business', by Amy Goldstein and Juliet Eilperin, Published by The Washington Post, March 2, 2002(re-printed on New Zealand website)
http://www.converge.org.nz/pma/cra0205.htm

(snip)
"Key congressional leaders said yesterday the White House did not tell them that President Bush has moved a cadre of senior of senior civilian managers to secret underground sites outside Washington to ensure that the federal government could survive a devastating terrorist attack on the nation's capital.

Senate Majority Leader Thomas A. Daschle (D-S.D.) said he had not been informed about the role, location or even the existence of the shadow government that the administration began to deploy the morning of the Sept. 11 hijackings. An aide to House Minority Leader Richard A. Gephardt (D-Mo.) said he similarly was unaware of the administration's move.

Among Congress's GOP leadership, aides to House Speaker J. Dennis Hastert (Ill.), second in line to succeed the president if he became incapacitated, and to Senate Minority Leader Trent Lott (Miss.) said they were not sure whether they knew. Aides to Sen. Robert C. Byrd (D-W. Va.) said he had not been told. As Senate president pro tempore, he is in line to become president after the House speaker."
(snip off)

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shuffnew Donating Member (306 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-01-04 08:08 AM
Response to Reply #90
92. Votergate: More details emerge (Wayne Madsen, Dec. 1, 2004)
Special Report

Votergate: More details emerge

By Wayne Madsen
Online Journal Contributing Writer


(snip)
"December 1, 2004Five Star Trust, the entity that, according to well-placed business and U.S. intelligence sources, is tied to the financing of a scheme to pay individuals posing as U.S. law enforcement and electronic voting machine technicians to rig the vote in favor of George W. Bush in at least four key statesFlorida, Texas, Ohio, and Californiarepresents a Byzantine network of offshore shell corporations and individuals tied to various Bush and Saudi-connected business enterprises."
(snip off)
Notice at the end he thanks DUers...

Online version link:
http://www.onlinejournal.com/Special_Reports/120104Mads...
Adobe PDF versin link:
http://www.onlinejournal.com/Special_Reports/120104Mads...

:kick:
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floridadem30 Donating Member (525 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-29-04 10:21 PM
Response to Original message
80. Thank you
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understandinglife Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-29-04 10:23 PM
Response to Original message
81. Brad Friedman: Conversation with Madsen and a bit of...
.....advice for Mr Olbermann.

One quote:

"I chatted with Madsen and peppered him with any number of questions about what he'd reported so far and what he is still in the process of investigating. I was able to get respectable answers to the bulk of concerns I had, ....."

http://www.bradblog.com/archives/00000999.htm

"Halt, Audit & Prove My Vote Counts, Now"
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jamboi Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-29-04 11:24 PM
Response to Reply #81
82. Thanks so much for that post! n/t
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rdmccur Donating Member (622 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-30-04 12:15 AM
Response to Reply #82
84. Canadian media
Some of us have sent Madsen's articles to some of the Canadian media.
Could someone please provide some e-mail addresses so that those of us who haven't yet could supplement these efforts. Thanks.
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jamboi Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-30-04 05:11 AM
Response to Original message
86. Madsen Radio Interview Link!
Edited on Tue Nov-30-04 05:25 AM by jamboi
Here's the KPFT radio archive page where I found it (Sunday Monitor 11/28)The description is: "Wayne Madsen with stunning allegation that "the Bush campaign spent some $29 million to pay polling place operatives to rig the election for Bush. Gore Vidal. Evan Davis with breaking news from Ohio on election contest.":
http://www.kpftx.org/archives/kpftsignal /

They start talking about recount stuff at 16:30 minutes or so into the stream. The Madsen interview is at about 21:45 to about 40:00, Gore Vidal (very interesting too) is at about 41:00-59:40, and on my quick listen through I didn't find the Evan Davis report (where he reports the "Prima Facie quote which I originally heard on the hour, but I'll have to go back when I have more time and hunt for it).

Here's the audio stream:
http://www.kpftx.org/archives/kpftsignal/pls.php?mp3fil...
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jamboi Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-30-04 03:37 PM
Response to Reply #86
88. Compilation posted on web site. Link
Edited on Tue Nov-30-04 03:45 PM by jamboi
Roger_Otip posted:

"i've put a WayneMadsen page up here

http://www.legjoints.com/WayneMadsen /

lifted from the DU Q&A"
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jamboi Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-01-04 06:04 AM
Response to Original message
91. Anyone who's serious about organizing research on this plz join me here
New, Improved Madsen Research Project Strategy Thread
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...
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jamboi Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-01-04 02:08 PM
Response to Reply #91
93. Corrected Link for Madsen Research
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