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Blackwell Denies Public Access to Poll Books in Trumbull County

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rehema Donating Member (184 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-28-04 04:12 PM
Original message
Blackwell Denies Public Access to Poll Books in Trumbull County
Poll books are public record

Ohio Secretary of State J. Kenneth Blackwell and the Trumbull County Board of Elections are wrong to deny public access to poll books from the Nov. 2 election.

Local activist the Rev. Werner Lange of Newton Falls sued the county elections board after it refused to let him inspect the books. The books show who voted. Elections officials said the books are not available to the public until after the official recount is complete, which is expected to be on Monday. The suit was filed nearly two weeks ago.

Blackwell backed up the elections board and cited a section of state law that reads, "The board shall carefully preserve the poll book, poll list or signature poll book, and tally sheet delivered to it form each polling place until it has completed the official canvass of the election returns.''

<snip>

Nobody can argue against the importance of physically preserving these documents. That can be done, however, while still granting Lange's request. Boards of elections should make copies for people who want to inspect the records.
<snip>
Few people are going to want the entire set of poll books. Chances are, the average person making a request will want to check the voting logs of one or maybe a few people in a precinct of familiarity. And who better to challenge the validity of a voter than somebody from that voter's precinct who may know that the voter no longer lives there? Or is dead. Or is otherwise incapacitated. Or is fictitious. To wait until after the vote is certified before allowing the public to make such discoveries could, in a close race, make the process longer and more cumbersome.

http://www.tribunechronicle.com/editorial/story/1128202...
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w4rma Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-28-04 04:15 PM
Response to Original message
1. I have no doubt that there is major fraud in this election.
Otherwise these folks would not be hiding potential evidence.
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truehawk Donating Member (797 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-29-04 10:56 AM
Response to Reply #1
26. My very thought
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nadinbrzezinski Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-28-04 04:16 PM
Response to Original message
2. it is getting curioser and curioser
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texpatriot2004 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-28-04 04:17 PM
Response to Original message
3. Yes, it is possible to preserve the books and allow the public
to see them. This is a huge violation on Blackwell's part. I read another account of the same thing where someone was first allowed to see the book then, after a few minutes, some other official at the BOE took them away at the request of officials higher-up. The election is not transparent.
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rehema Donating Member (184 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-28-04 04:19 PM
Response to Reply #3
4. Another Blackwell stall tactic no less n/t
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Carolab Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-28-04 04:28 PM
Response to Original message
5. AGAIN, write GOVERNOR TAFT
This CANNOT stand.

Blackwell's actions are obstructionist, anti-American and anti-democracy.

HE MUST BE RECUSED and the RECOUNT MUST COMMENCE NOW.

Remind Governor Taft that he is an elected official and that unless the elections system is safeguarded, he either answers to the population he is supposed to represent or to the mandate of an authoritarian regime.
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rodeodance Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-28-04 04:42 PM
Response to Reply #5
6. Do you know email address for Gov Taft?
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rehema Donating Member (184 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-28-04 04:43 PM
Response to Reply #5
7. According to a recent News Report:
Votes Cannot be certified if Blackwell recuses himself.
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troubleinwinter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-28-04 04:48 PM
Response to Reply #7
9. BS. What "news report"? Link?
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rehema Donating Member (184 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-28-04 05:12 PM
Response to Reply #9
11. Spokesman for Blackwell said vote cannot be certified
Carlo LoParo, a spokesman for Blackwell, said Ohio's election results cannot be certified by Dec. 6 if Blackwell recuses himself.

http://www.onnnews.com/Global/story.asp?S=2617738&nav=L...
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troubleinwinter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-28-04 05:19 PM
Response to Reply #11
12. "a spokesman says"
She may SAY it, but we don't know that it makes it true. Obviously, there are provisions in place for if the SOS cannot serve.
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rehema Donating Member (184 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-28-04 06:09 PM
Response to Reply #12
13. Does anything about Ohio election make sense at this point
It may not be true but Blackwell and company are using their OWN intrepretation of Ohio laws.
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kk897 Donating Member (829 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-28-04 06:52 PM
Response to Reply #12
15. LoParo's been stalling a lot
I'm a Columbus resident working on various recount efforts, and LoParo, Blackwell's mouthpiece, has been brushing us aside. For instance, there was a document the SoS put out instructing the BoEs how to recount. It says that they shall count at least three percent of the most populous precint's vote. I've combed through all sorts of Ohio law, and, although I'm not a lawyer, I'm sure this isn't in the code itself.

However, when one of our volunteers called the SoS's office, she actually spoke to LoParo. She asked him where the "three percent provision" is in the law, and he just snapped, saying that it's there and to look it up on the Internet.

Ha. Well I did, and it ain't there. Period.

There is a little provision saying that the SoS will deliver instructions to the BoEs in time for a recount, but nothing specific about what precincts to count or what percentage.

Anyway, they're both stonewalling big time.
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WiseFawn Donating Member (101 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-29-04 10:05 AM
Response to Reply #11
25. Carlo LoParo
was interviewed last night on 10 Tv news about Jackson's rally. He said Jackson's candidate didn't win.
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Solitaire Donating Member (745 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-29-04 03:55 PM
Response to Reply #11
32. this is very interesting:
"Attorney Cliff Arnebeck, who has represented political activist groups, said he would ask the Ohio Supreme Court, probably on Wednesday, to take a look at the election results. If the court decides to hear the case, it can declare a new winner or throw the results out."

What happens if they "throw the results out". Do they hold another election?




:freak:
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Alizaryn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-29-04 03:45 PM
Response to Reply #7
30. There has to be a provision...what if something happened to him?
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BlueCaliDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-28-04 04:50 PM
Response to Reply #5
10. I Agree w/You, Carolab, but...
...knowing that the Bush-Republicans, and their "Pioneers" have complete control over our elections--as we've seen, and for which there is no doubt--who's bidding do you think Gov. Taft will do?

The people who vote for him, or, the people who count the votes for him?
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noclonyofthechimp Donating Member (656 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-29-04 09:54 AM
Response to Reply #5
23. Rock On!
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troubleinwinter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-29-04 11:54 AM
Response to Reply #5
28. Taft accuses DEMOs of fraud!
I don't think he'd help us much.
......
Oct. 26

"We have four counties where you have more voters registered than you have 18 and over population," Taft said.


Taft noted the role of Democrat 527 groups that have inflated Ohios voter registeration rolls.


"We've had a lot of fraudulent voter registrations already, mostly by those 527 groups. There will be unprecedented scrutiny of this election on both sides, he said. Taft noted that many of these new registrations appear to be fraudulent.

http://www.newsmax.com/archives/ic/2004/10/26/114551.sh...
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RememberTheCoup Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-29-04 12:05 PM
Response to Reply #28
29. Gee, you'd think that with all that fraud by Dems...
...that the Repubs would WANT to investigate. :eyes:
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troubleinwinter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-28-04 04:47 PM
Response to Original message
8. This is OUTFUCKINGRAGEOUS.
I am just speechless (sorta). This guy needs to be removed NOW.
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jsascj Donating Member (425 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-28-04 06:25 PM
Response to Original message
14. Just really makes me wonder
What they promised him for committing such atrocious crimes.

What is his 'major award gonna be?
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kk897 Donating Member (829 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-28-04 06:55 PM
Response to Reply #14
16. Blackwell's ambitions
He really wants to be Governor. I rather imagine he believes he could become the first African-American president, because he's a Republican and has been quite a footsoldier to him. If you think about it, it's not that unreasonable a strategy. Remember, when someone compared him to Katherine Harris, he just said, "Well, she's done all right for herself since 2000" (paraphrase).
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jsascj Donating Member (425 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-28-04 07:32 PM
Response to Reply #16
18. Guess they'll rig that one for HIM!
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KaliTracy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-28-04 07:03 PM
Response to Reply #14
17. governor or higher?
Edited on Sun Nov-28-04 07:05 PM by KaliTracy
I've hear wind governor, or washington...

Here's reference to governor (from a group opposing his tax cut) http://www.ohiotaxpayers.com/NonImage/OTAToBlackwell.pd...

and here... an editoral supporting his 2nd run for secretary of state posted on *his* website... http://www.kenblackwell.com/news.asp?formmode=release&i...

tracy
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texpatriot2004 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-28-04 09:59 PM
Response to Original message
19. kick
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texpatriot2004 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-28-04 10:31 PM
Response to Original message
20. This still burns me up
How dare they deny the public access to poll books, or any other piece of information we request. :mad:
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rehema Donating Member (184 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-29-04 09:51 AM
Response to Reply #20
21. I hope Blackwell goes to jail n/t
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texpatriot2004 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-29-04 09:52 AM
Response to Reply #21
22. Me too - I hope the whole racket goes to jail
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electropop Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-29-04 09:56 AM
Response to Original message
24. I'm glad he's doing it. It makes him look so much more guilty.
He and the repukes will eventually pay for this.
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trudyco Donating Member (975 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-29-04 11:23 AM
Response to Original message
27. Once we get the pollbooks
Can Jessie Jackson et al stage an unofficial revote? Have people ready to have each person who votes sign an affidavit. It would say that they voted the same way for president in the original election. Have independent reporters there to make sure the revote counting is done fairly.

Mostly people who voted for Kerry would do it. What we want is that total Kerry number so it doesn't matter if the Bushies don't want to participate. People don't even have to sign an affidavit that they voted for Kerry, just that they voted anonymously this time in the exact same way they did on election day. Voter privacy is maintained.

Pick a likely precinct or two that have suspicious numbers. Why should we wait for the supreme court to tell us we can't recount? Why don't we take the initiative and do our own revote to prove fraud? Set up some churches and whatever else can handle the people and maybe do it during the rally.

Trudyco
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geo Donating Member (879 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-29-04 03:49 PM
Response to Original message
31. Sunshine laws.. FOIA
Let's fry him on this. Government secrecy is poison in a democracy. - G
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Pepper32 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-29-04 04:11 PM
Response to Original message
33. What is he hiding? I am so sick of him. He needs to recuse himself!
n/t
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rehema Donating Member (184 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-30-04 01:32 AM
Response to Reply #33
35. Blackwell thinks he's Katherine Harris and get away with
voter suppression
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CantGetFooledAgain Donating Member (635 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-29-04 04:26 PM
Response to Original message
34. He should scan ALL the poll books ...
... and post the images on one of the Internets
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