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HUGE OH 4 county discrep betw Kerry + Connally

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mod mom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-28-04 01:30 PM
Original message
HUGE OH 4 county discrep betw Kerry + Connally
4 Counties in southern Ohio had big discrepancies between votes cast for Dem Prez (Kerry) and Dem Supreme Court (Connally)
Butler County: Connally got 45,457 more votes than Kerry
Clermont County: Connolly got 22,998 more votes than Kerry
Warren County: Connally got 24,785 more votes for Kerry
Hamilton County: Connally got 16,289 more votes for Kerry

WHY??? THESE VOTES ARE IN A REPUB STRONGHOLD AND WARREN COUNTY HAD THAT MYSTERIOUS LOCKDOWN.

Pls distribute this info!!! More to come....
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uppityperson Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-28-04 01:33 PM
Response to Original message
1. link please n/t
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goclark Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-28-04 01:36 PM
Response to Original message
2. kick for link and more info
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11cents Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-28-04 01:37 PM
Response to Original message
3. Was Connally the incumbent?
I think people tend to vote for the incumbent in court races and not pay too much attention to party. This may not be a good race to use as a point of comparison.
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LisaL Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-28-04 01:41 PM
Response to Reply #3
6. No, Connally was not the incumbent.
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Barkley Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-29-04 03:18 AM
Response to Reply #3
67. Connally is African American which makes these result very suspect!
Its hard to believe that these conservative counties would vote give that many votes to a black democratic candidate for state supreme court.
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AP Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-28-04 01:39 PM
Response to Original message
4. Some counties always split votes b/w prez and downticket races.
For example, the dixiecrat counties in FL have always voted Dem on everything but the President every four years since '68.

You'd really need to know history and a little about Connally before you could conclude this is mysterious.
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mom cat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-28-04 01:41 PM
Response to Original message
5. Great work! Could you please also post this in the Voting Issues
Forum. Thanks.
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liberalnurse Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-28-04 01:43 PM
Response to Original message
7. The ballots in Ohio do not.....
recognize the political party of the Ohio Supreme Court candidates. Most Ohio voters never research this issue.
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Old and In the Way Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-28-04 01:43 PM
Response to Original message
8. Very interesting.
Maybe these aren't the Republican strongholds as some would like us to believe. Doesn't make much sense to me. I don't know why they'd be voting Democratic judges locally and for a Republican that will have such a huge impact on SCOTUS.
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Hobbes199 Donating Member (430 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-28-04 02:37 PM
Response to Reply #8
22. Probably more than an ounce of truth there...
Many of the "Republican strongholds" across the country probably aren't as strong as people think. At least not in this election, but maybe enough cheating has gone on over the years to only make it seem so.
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Fescue4u Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-28-04 03:59 PM
Response to Reply #8
30. No..they are definitely strongholds
this is the area that held the largest rally in history (for Bush). 55,000+ in one rally alone.
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brentspeak Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-28-04 01:57 PM
Response to Original message
9. I'm not going to distribute this info unless you provide a link (n/t)
Otherwise, it's called "rumor-mongering".
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bettyellen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-28-04 03:32 PM
Response to Reply #9
26. The link also see the jesse says kerry supports recount in breaking news
http://www.freepress.org/departments/display/19/2004/94...



By suspicious, Jackson is referring to the latest analysis of the Nov. 2 vote by a coalition of Ohio voting rights activists. In analyzing the still-unofficial results, the totals reveal that C. Ellen Connally, an African-American Democratic candidate from Cleveland for Ohio Chief Justice, received more than 257,000 votes than Kerry.

In Butler County, for example, Connally had 45,457 more votes than Kerry. The reason these vote counts are suspect is because Connelly, a retired African-American judge, was vastly outspent in her race, and did not have the visibility of the presidential race. Thus for a more obscure Democratic candidate, farther down on the ticket, to get a quarter of a million more votes statewide than Kerry, suggests something happened to suggest there may have been a transfer of Kerry votes to Bush.

This looks like a computer glitch or a computer fix, said Bob Fitrakis, a lawyer, political scientist and Editor of the Columbus Free Press (http://freepres.org ) who has written about election irregularities since Bush was declared the winner. Fitrakis is among the team of lawyers who announced they would soon file an election challenge in the states Supreme Court.

Statistically, Kerry, as the Democratic presidential candidate, should have more votes than Connally. In a presidential election, most voters have the priority of casting a vote for president and the votes for president are almost always much higher than those of candidates farther down the ticket. When voters vote for Democratic candidates farther down the ticket, it is usually being driven by a sample ballot from the Party, starting at the top with president. Many voters simply dont vote for Supreme Court justices. It is highly improbable that Connallys vote totals would be so much higher than Kerrys, Fitrakis said.

The fact that Warren County has such odd vote counts is no surprise to Fitrakis. The Republican-dominated county threw out all the media and independent vote watchers when votes were being counted at the end of Election Day, claiming homeland security issues. This would have easily allowed for the wholesale shifting of a large amount of votes from Kerry to Bush. If youre behind closed doors, it is easy enough to do. The November issues of Popular Science and Popular Mechanics magazines show how easy it is to hack the vote and steal an election. The articles are called E-vote emergency: And you thought dimpled chads were bad and Could hackers tilt the election? I think they did, explained Fitrakis.
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Gloria Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-28-04 02:06 PM
Response to Original message
10. These vote discrepancies total 109529 votes...
Kerry lost by about 136,000....sizable closing of the gap if true, although he still is down about 25,000 votes. Isn't that about what the Kerry camp thought election night? So, it still might not lead to a change....(I may be wrong on that gap from initial election reports on what the Kerry camp thought, so please correct me if I'm off...)
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Fescue4u Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-28-04 02:23 PM
Response to Original message
11. Supreme Court justices are not marked as D or R
Edited on Sun Nov-28-04 02:25 PM by Fescue4u
On the ballot.

Folks who vote a straight ticket are left to their own memory or knowledge of the Supreme Court candidates to vote their party.

When I voted, I had little knowledge of some of the S.C candidates, and I certainly didnt know their affiliation (for the most of them)

In one SC race, I didnt vote for either candidate because I had no knowledge of either.

I consider myself far above average in political knowledge. Id say that 80% of voters had no knowledge of SC candidates affililiation.
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LisaL Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-28-04 02:27 PM
Response to Reply #11
14. Sorry, I don't buy your argument.
If these numbers are for real, it makes no sense. Connally was not an incumbent and she didn't win. How can she get more numbers than Kerry?
And how come she didn't win if she got thousands more votes than Kerry?
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Fescue4u Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-28-04 03:51 PM
Response to Reply #14
28. Its not an argument. Its a fact
SC justices party affliliation are not listed on the ballot.

I had no idea that connaly was a women and democrat until now.

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LisaL Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-28-04 05:26 PM
Response to Reply #28
35. Her name (Ellen) didn't give you a clue that she is female?
Edited on Sun Nov-28-04 05:28 PM by lizzy
:eyes:
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Fescue4u Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-28-04 05:52 PM
Response to Reply #35
43. NOT true.
Ellen is her middle name.

Its listed on the ballot as C. Ellen Connaly.

Middle names are not reliable indicators of sex.

Anyway, is it your assertion that women should not garner many votes?
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Fescue4u Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-28-04 11:05 PM
Response to Reply #35
64. Nice edit
:eyes:
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sandnsea Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-28-04 02:28 PM
Response to Reply #11
15. It's true
And very frustrating when people get taken on these wild goose chases. If people would just stick to the blatant cases of machine error or voter disenfranchisement, maybe this story would go somewhere. But as long as it's mixed in with goofiness, it'll just stay goofy. Too bad.
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LisaL Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-28-04 02:32 PM
Response to Reply #15
18. Excuse me, but this is an african-american woman
, not an incubment, running against an white male. I don't buy it that people just voted for her because they had no clue who to vote for.
:eyes:
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sandnsea Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-28-04 03:20 PM
Response to Reply #18
24. Says that on the ballot?
African American woman against white man? Most people vote for judges and the like on name recognition or because they're the incumbent and that's about it. If a candidate is the incumbent and no scandals have been reported, people figure they must be doing a good job.
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Fescue4u Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-28-04 03:54 PM
Response to Reply #18
29. They proably voted for her
Because she was listed higher up on the list on names (it begins with a C)

Just reading this thread I learned that Connaly is a Black Women Democrat. I had no idea. With your post, this is the first I've heard that she is black.

Since race, party and sex is not listed on the ballot, and since few voters research SC candidates ahead of time, Id say that she gathered most of her votes based on balot position

But hey, if you want, go ahead and run on your wild goose chase. it should be good exercise.
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LisaL Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-28-04 05:31 PM
Response to Reply #29
39. Again, her first name is Ellen.
I presume at the very least most voters would guess she is a woman.
No?
:eyes: :eyes: :eyes: :eyes: :eyes:
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Fescue4u Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-28-04 05:53 PM
Response to Reply #39
46. No.
See above posts.

Besides rejecting the argument that women should have fewer votes, she was listed on the ballot as "C ellen Connoly"

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Imperialism Inc. Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-28-04 09:25 PM
Response to Reply #29
53. Apparently she was on the sample ballots the Ohio
Dems used to educate new voters.
If that is the reason for her vote totals then it does suggest that there were lots of people voting for her and then voting for Bush rather than Kerry on the presidential race.
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liberalnurse Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-28-04 08:42 PM
Response to Reply #11
50. Exactly......
I share your reply......see above......

I had to go to my local Democratic Party web site to get direction on this exact issue.

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rehema Donating Member (184 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-28-04 10:33 PM
Response to Reply #11
61. Here is C Ellen Connally's website address
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NVMojo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-28-04 02:25 PM
Response to Original message
12. this is going on nationwide and what it means is the jerks took the time
to program in fraud for the President and didn't think anyone would ever look at the details the way we all have. Mistakes are made by every human, but the when the greedy slip, it tends to be on really stupid things.
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mdb Donating Member (398 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-28-04 02:27 PM
Response to Original message
13. I was just reading this.
Has this been analyzed?

http://www.freepress.org/departments/display/19/2004/94...
<snip>
There were 15 Ohio counties where Connallys margin was 5,000 votes or more better than Kerrys unofficial results. In five counties, Connally had a 10,000-vote margin or better. These counties used punch card, optical scan, and touch screen voting machines with most using punch card systems.
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LisaL Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-28-04 02:29 PM
Response to Reply #13
16. It says that statewide Connally received
257,000 more votes than Kerry. How is that possible? Shouldn't she have won if that was the case?
????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????
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ReneB Donating Member (135 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-28-04 02:33 PM
Response to Reply #13
19. from the same link

Statistically, Kerry, as the Democratic presidential candidate, should have more votes than Connally. In a presidential election, most voters have the priority of casting a vote for president and the votes for president are almost always much higher than those of candidates farther down the ticket. When voters vote for Democratic candidates farther down the ticket, it is usually being driven by a sample ballot from the Party, starting at the top with president. Many voters simply dont vote for Supreme Court justices. It is highly improbable that Connallys vote totals would be so much higher than Kerrys, Fitrakis said.
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LisaL Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-28-04 02:35 PM
Response to Reply #19
21. Exactly. It's all very strange.
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Patsy Stone Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-28-04 02:29 PM
Response to Original message
17. Maybe OT here - Castor beat Kerry in FL
Yet, Martinez trailed GWB. Weird?
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LisaL Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-28-04 02:34 PM
Response to Reply #17
20. It's srange. How can a candidate receive more votes than Kerry
and still lose? Are those Connally numbers for real?
???????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????
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Patsy Stone Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-28-04 05:48 PM
Response to Reply #20
41. Like this: Castor received 6657 more votes than Kerry
K: 3583544
C: 3590201 +6657

B:3964522
M:3672864 -291658


Yet, Martinez lost by a huge amount.
That's with an abortion question on the ballot.

So, so weird.
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ReneB Donating Member (135 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-28-04 03:06 PM
Response to Original message
23. what i have found so far:

(dont know if those include those abs* ballots)

http://www.cnn.com/ELECTION/2004/pages/results/states/O...
County Bush Kerry Nader
Butler 106,735 54,185 0
Clermont 61,694 25,318 0
Hamilton 215,639 190,956 0
Warren 66,523 25,399 0


Warren
http://www.co.warren.oh.us/bdelec/voting_results_publis...
FOR CHIEF JUSTICE OF THE SUPREME COURT 1-1 *
FULL TERM COMMENCING 1/1/05
C. ELLEN CONNALLY 28,470
THOMAS J. MOYER 44,961


butler
http://www.butlercountyelections.org/LiveResults/data/r...
JUSTICE OF THE SUPREME COURT
FULL TERM COMMENCING 1-1-05
C. ELLEN CONNALLY . . . . . . . 61,559
THOMAS J. MOYER . . . . . . . . 68,407


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dewaldd Donating Member (185 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-28-04 05:37 PM
Response to Reply #23
40. The numbers are much smaller than what the top post reported
Edited on Sun Nov-28-04 05:39 PM by dewaldd
The differences are off by an order of magnitude--5,000 instead of 50,000.

And Connally got FEWER votes than Kerry, not more. It is all BS

The following are INCORRECT
"Butler County: Connally got 45,457 more votes than Kerry
Clermont County: Connolly got 22,998 more votes than Kerry
Warren County: Connally got 24,785 more votes for Kerry
Hamilton County: Connally got 16,289 more votes for Kerry"
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New Earth Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-28-04 05:52 PM
Response to Reply #40
44. i think we need to come together in a post and check these differences
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ReneB Donating Member (135 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-28-04 06:11 PM
Response to Reply #40
49. no no..
Connaly got in the Counties i just posted MORE votes than kerry
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paritom Donating Member (121 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-28-04 03:22 PM
Response to Original message
25. kick
kick
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goclark Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-29-04 12:48 PM
Response to Reply #25
70. Watch out for Freepers Alert!! Kick for those that want to win!
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lexicon089 Donating Member (79 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-28-04 03:45 PM
Response to Original message
27. GIVE IT UP ALREADY- WE LOST.
It seems some people on this forum are living in denial. The election wasn't stolen, there was to some extent maybe what you adn I would cosider voter 'intimidation' but nothing to warrent what some people on this forum are saying.

Think of this, in the Ukraine 30 men busted into a polling station dressed in masks and holding batons and started beating voters loyal to the opposition party.... THAT is voter intimidation.

And as far as not having enough polling machines in democrat counties... WHO DO YOU THINK IS RESPONSIBLE FOR THAT? it is the lazy ass democratic party. In DEMOCRATIC counties it is DEMOCRATS who are elected to elections supervisors for those counties!


give me a break people, you are just setting yourselfs up to be hurt again when it comes out that kerry doesn't win Ohio, and what if * gets even more votes than he started off with?
-------------------
Whats next? you'll continue into denial after ohio electors are certified for *

You'll say "MOST ELECTORS WILL DEFECT TO KERRY!!!" and of course you will be wrong again,

And then even when Bush is sworn in you will think that there will be a lawsuit to stop it, which of course there won't be.

And once you realize that there is no lawsuit waiting to happen you'll continue to live in denial and think that during the next election when democrats win, * will be charged for his warcrimes. That also isin't going to happen.

When the hell will everybody grow up and start focusing on the next election, stop the freaking bleeding, Fallwell and his cronies are already registering thousands for the 2006 elections...what are YOU doing for the next cycle? I don't want to be in for another world of hurting in 06 or 08. Focus your energies on winning the next round or we will be in trouble... damn.
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Eric J in MN Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-28-04 04:18 PM
Response to Reply #27
31. No, Franklin County. Ohio elections are run by a Republican,
Matt Damschroder.


http://www.freepress.org/columns/display/3/2004/983

None dare call it voter suppression and fraud
by Bob Fitrakis

November 7, 2004

In Franklin County, where Franklin County Board of Elections Director Matt Damschroder is also the former Executive Director of the countys Republican Party, the county Board of Elections building looked like a bunker. Scores of city buses blocked parking spaces on the street outside, numerous concrete barricades surrounded the parking lot, and a metal detector was stationed at the only entrance. A phalanx of armed deputy sheriffs swarmed the only site where provisional voters could cast a guaranteed ballot.

The Columbus Dispatch confirmed an Election Day Free Press story that far fewer voting machines were present in predominantly black Democratic inner-city voting wards than in the recent primary election and the 2000 presidential election, with their lighter turnouts. The reduced number of machines caused voters to wait up to seven hours and wait an average of approximately three hours. One Republican Central Committee member told the Free Press that Damschroder held back as many as 2000 machines and dispersed many of the other machines to affluent suburbs in Franklin County.

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LisaL Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-28-04 05:28 PM
Response to Reply #31
38. Who exactly are you calling "We"?
:spank:
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pointsoflight Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-28-04 04:53 PM
Response to Reply #27
32. Feel free to "give it up yourself", but don't tell me what to do.
The legitimacy of our electoral process--and therefore our democracy itself--takes precedence over all else in my mind. If you don't agree, feel free to move on and do something else, but please get off your high horse and quit telling other people what they should and shouldn't think and do.
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seito Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-28-04 05:07 PM
Response to Reply #27
33. Yeah, ok, whatever....
Nothing to see here, move on
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LiberalAndProud Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-28-04 05:51 PM
Response to Reply #27
42. Ok.
I wasn't sure, but now I am.

click.
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kimchi Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-28-04 10:36 PM
Response to Reply #27
62. YOU give up if you want.
We know DAMN well this election was stolen. Anyone with half a brain can see that.

Grow up? It seems that some on this board are naive, but it ain't the ones who are concerned with vote fraud.
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lowmanknows Donating Member (45 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-28-04 10:45 PM
Response to Reply #27
63. Who lost look at this.............My theory.........

http://www.firstcoastnews.com/politics/news-article.asp...

This is odd. Say you wanted to rig an election. How would one do it? What would be the easiest way to do it, without involving too many people? A good old fashioned "crisis." Scare people away from the crime scene so the dirty business can be done. Everyone knows that if Kerry was going to win he would need OHIO or FLORIDA or both. Those are the only two that would need to be messed with to assure victory for either side. In Ohio there was the famous "Warren County Lockdown" because of "terror" threats. What about the less infamous "Bomb Threat" at the State Elections Office in Tallahassee the day before the election. I guess my point is this....... The only two places that needed to "fixed" (Ohio& Florida) both had a scare tactic applied to a government building the day of, or the day before the election. If they both had the same "crisis" on the same day it would look odd even to people who are not avid news watchers.
The State Elections Office in Tallahassee holds what? The main tabulating computers. It would actually be easier to hack in the main tabulating computers before the actual election because you can place "kernels" in place and never have to mess with it again, and you would still get what looks like "actual" results. The Warren County Courthouse holds what? The optical scan equipment that can be hacked into and votes can be messed with from as low as the local level and as far as the state and national level. By doing it this way you would actually have control before and after the election and you run a smaller chance in getting caught because your using to different modes at two different times.
To get this done all you would need is 2 or 3 people in Ohio and Florida to get this done. Not an army of computer hackers. Does anyone else besides me notice that there were means, opprotunity, and motive here? This even explains the exit polls......

Thank you,
Stacy Lowman





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witchhazl Donating Member (126 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-28-04 05:21 PM
Response to Original message
34. Question-- would a straight ticket Democrat vote include Connally?
Because that would explain why so many votes for her, no? Even if she wasn't identified as a Democrat. But then some of Kerry's votes must have been "shifted."
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LisaL Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-28-04 05:26 PM
Response to Reply #34
36. There is no such thing as "straight democrat vote" in OH.
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dewaldd Donating Member (185 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-28-04 05:28 PM
Response to Original message
37. THESE NUMBERS ARE ALL WRONG!!!!
Go check them yourselves: http://www.sos.state.oh.us/sos//results /

We are being fed shit...from now on, sniff anything before you swallow it.
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LiberalAndProud Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-28-04 05:53 PM
Response to Reply #37
45. I did! Go look again.
The following counties show more votes for Connally than John F. Kerry.

County C. Ellen Connally John F. Kerry
Auglaize 7,312 5,729
Brown 7,407 7,058
Butler 59,532 54,185
Clermont 29,464 25,318
Darke 8,817 7,663
Highland 6,119 6,012
Mercer 6,607 4,924
Miami 17,206 17,039
Putnam 4,785 4,348
Shelby 7,830 6,337
Van Wert 4,497 4,026
Warren 27,812 25,399
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LisaL Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-28-04 06:10 PM
Response to Reply #37
48. The difference is not as big as the numbers, but Connally
definitely got a lot more votes than Kerry in several republican counties.
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googly Donating Member (801 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-28-04 10:18 PM
Response to Reply #48
60. Was Connaly listed as non-partisan or as a democrat??
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mod mom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-28-04 09:08 PM
Response to Reply #37
51. More Ohio data from CASEOhio
Ok guys please bare with me. I just started posting but I'm trying to get this information out to the public for CaseOhio. freepress.org will be covering it as well. The 3 groups contesting the election CASEOHIO with Susan Truitt as attorney, Cliff Arnebeck attorney for Commoncause, and Bob Fitrakis, attorney, Professor of Political science and writer of Freepress.org will be working with Rev Jackson's Rainbow PUSH coalition to demand equal treatment under the law for Ohio voters.
Rev Jackson announced those figures for the 4 counties in his speech this afternoon at Mt Herman Missionary Baptist Church in Columbus OH. there were 37 counties in Ohio where Connally's margin exceeded Kerry by 2,000 votes or more. In these 37 counties, the total margin for Connally exceeded the margin for Kerry (in his race) by 257,546.

there are 15 counties in OH were Connally's margin was 5,000 better than Kerry's. In these 15, Connally's margin exceeded Kerry's by 190,437.

If the selection criteria is a Connally margin 10,000 better than Kerry's, there are 5 such counties, collectively Connally's margin exceeded Kerry's by 119, 960.

Please guide me so this info gets out. It will probably be more important to some than others.
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dewaldd Donating Member (185 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-28-04 09:51 PM
Response to Reply #51
55. Again, THIS DATA IS ALL WRONG!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I don't care if Jesse Jackson said so!

The information is all at the Secretary of State website: http://www.sos.state.oh.us/sos//results/2004/main.htm

I posted my spreadsheet here: http://www.geocities.com/boycott_sinclair/prez-vs-supre...

The numbers that you quote are completely wrong.

Statewide, Kerry got 640,677 more votes than Connally. There are 11 counties where Connally beat out Kerry. The numbers in those counties only add up to 19,350.

There are also a fairly equivalent number of counties where the Republican Supreme Court candidate Moyer beat out Bush; they add up to 15,509. I don't see conspiracy in these numbers. They look like noise.



This is as bad a waste of time as that CyberNet B.S.
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truehawk Donating Member (797 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-29-04 12:44 PM
Response to Reply #37
69. If you are going to steal, steal where it is FRIENDLY
This counties where the vote for Connally is suspicious is in HEAVILY REPUBLICAN counties, exactly where one would expect them to pad the vote.

By suspicious, Jackson is referring to the latest analysis of the Nov. 2 vote by a coalition of Ohio voting rights activists. In analyzing the still-unofficial results, the totals reveal that C. Ellen Connally, an African-American Democratic candidate from Cleveland for Ohio Chief Justice.

If the counties had voted in the same proportion for Kerry as for Connally Kerry received 257,000 more votes.


In Butler County, Connally the Democrat received 59,532 running against Republican Chief Justice Moyer who received 66,625 votes. the difference between Connally and Moyers's votes was 7093. Bush received 106,735 votes and Kerry received 54,185 votes, with a difference of 52,550.
Moyer won over Connally with 52.8% eliminating minimal third party votes, Bush won over Kerry with 66%.

Kerry is short at least 5000 votes and more like 21,751 votes in Butler County, if the county voted for Kerry in the same proportion as they voted for Connally.




"
The reason these vote counts are suspect is because Connelly, a retired African-American judge, was vastly outspent in her race, and did not have the visibility of the presidential race.

This looks like a computer glitch or a computer fix, said Bob Fitrakis, a lawyer, political scientist and Editor of the Columbus Free Press (http://freepres.org ) who has written about election irregularities since Bush was declared the winner. Fitrakis is among the team of lawyers who announced they would soon file an election challenge in the states Supreme Court.

Statistically, Kerry, as the Democratic presidential candidate, should have more votes than Connally. In a presidential election, most voters have the priority of casting a vote for president and the votes for president are almost always much higher than those of candidates farther down the ticket. When voters vote for Democratic candidates farther down the ticket, it is usually being driven by a sample ballot from the Party, starting at the top with president. Many voters simply dont vote for Supreme Court justices. It is highly improbable that Connallys vote totals would be so much higher than Kerrys, Fitrakis said.

The fact that Warren County has such odd vote counts is no surprise to Fitrakis. The Republican-dominated county threw out all the media and independent vote watchers when votes were being counted at the end of Election Day, claiming homeland security issues. This would have easily allowed for the wholesale shifting of a large amount of votes from Kerry to Bush. If youre behind closed doors, it is easy enough to do. The November issues of Popular Science and Popular Mechanics magazines show how easy it is to hack the vote and steal an election. The articles are called E-vote emergency: And you thought dimpled chads were bad and Could hackers tilt the election? I think they did, explained Fitrakis.

There were 15 Ohio counties where Connallys margin was 5,000 votes or more better than Kerrys unofficial results. In five counties, Connally had a 10,000-vote margin or better. These counties used punch card, optical scan, and touch screen voting machines with most using punch card systems.

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lowmanknows Donating Member (45 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-28-04 06:01 PM
Response to Original message
47. I know it's a theory, but it explains all.
This is odd. Say you wanted to rig an election. How would one do it? What would be the easiest way to do it, without involving too many people? A good old fashioned "crisis." Scare people away from the crime scene so the dirty business can be done. Everyone knows that if Kerry was going to win he would need OHIO or FLORIDA or both. Those are the only two that would need to be messed with to assure victory for either side. In Ohio there was the famous "Warren County Lockdown" because of "terror" threats. What about the less infamous "Bomb Threat" at the State Elections Office in Tallahassee the day before the election. I guess my point is this....... The only two places that needed to "fixed" (Ohio& Florida) both had a scare tactic applied to a government building the day of, or the day before the election. If they both had the same "crisis" on the same day it would look odd even to people who are not avid news watchers.
The State Elections Office in Tallahassee holds what? The main tabulating computers. It would actually be easier to hack in the main tabulating computer before the actual election because you can place "kernels" in place and never have to mess with it again, and you would still get what looks like "actual" results. The Warren County Courthouse holds what? The optical scan equipment that can be hacked into and votes can be messed with from as low as the local level and as far as the state and national level. By doing it this way you would actually have control before and after the election and you run a smaller chance in getting caught because your using to different modes at two different times.
To get this done all you would need is 2 or 3 people in Ohio and Florida to get this done. Not an army of computer hackers. It seems odd to me that there were only two crisis in America that came up in right around the election and they were both in the most important of the battle ground states, and they both gave the opportunity to commit the crime. It also explains the exit polls.

Thank you,
Stacy Lowman

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bleever Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-28-04 09:13 PM
Response to Reply #47
52. Link to the Tallahassee bomb threat article, please? Thanks. n/t
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lowmanknows Donating Member (45 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-28-04 09:41 PM
Response to Reply #52
54. The link is....
http://www.firstcoastnews.com/politics/news-article.asp...


For whatever reason this is the only way that it would let me put it through. Normally you can just click. It did not give me this option.
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liam97 Donating Member (406 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-28-04 09:59 PM
Response to Reply #54
56. NO, THE DATA IS QUITE RIGHT
You have to understand we are not talking actual votes but MARGINS.

please see detailed explanation http://www.freepress.org/departments/display/19/2004/94...

"By suspicious, Jackson is referring to the latest analysis of the Nov. 2 vote by a coalition of Ohio voting rights activists. In analyzing the still-unofficial results, the totals reveal that C. Ellen Connally, an African-American Democratic candidate from Cleveland for Ohio Chief Justice, received more than 257,000 votes than Kerry. "

County by county margins is porvided at the end of the paper.
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liam97 Donating Member (406 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-28-04 10:01 PM
Response to Reply #56
58. HERE IS THE EXPLANATION
""
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lowmanknows Donating Member (45 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-28-04 10:07 PM
Response to Reply #56
59. What data are you referring to?
The Irvine study has nothing to do with Dixiecrats. It states that the errors are for Bush in the 3 largest democratic areas nothing to do with Dixiecrats. Look up the stats......
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lowmanknows Donating Member (45 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-28-04 10:00 PM
Response to Original message
57. hello it's all here
http://www.firstcoastnews.com/politics/news-article.asp...

http://www.firstcoastnews.com/politics/news-article.asp...

This is odd. Say you wanted to rig an election. How would one do it? What would be the easiest way to do it, without involving too many people? A good old fashioned "crisis." Scare people away from the crime scene so the dirty business can be done. Everyone knows that if Kerry was going to win he would need OHIO or FLORIDA or both. Those are the only two that would need to be messed with to assure victory for either side. In Ohio there was the famous "Warren County Lockdown" because of "terror" threats. What about the less infamous "Bomb Threat" at the State Elections Office in Tallahassee the day before the election. I guess my point is this....... The only two places that needed to "fixed" (Ohio& Florida) both had a scare tactic applied to a government building the day of, or the day before the election. If they both had the same "crisis" on the same day it would look odd even to people who are not avid news watchers.
The State Elections Office in Tallahassee holds what? The main tabulating computers. It would actually be easier to hack in the main tabulating computers before the actual election because you can place "kernels" in place and never have to mess with it again, and you would still get what looks like "actual" results. The Warren County Courthouse holds what? The optical scan equipment that can be hacked into and votes can be messed with from as low as the local level and as far as the state and national level. By doing it this way you would actually have control before and after the election and you run a smaller chance in getting caught because your using to different modes at two different times.
To get this done all you would need is 2 or 3 people in Ohio and Florida to get this done. Not an army of computer hackers. Does anyone else besides me notice that there were means, opprotunity, and motive here? This even explains the exit polls......

Thank you,
Stacy Lowman

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FULL_METAL_HAT Donating Member (673 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-28-04 11:39 PM
Response to Original message
65. 2000 Election Results to compare (Warren and Ohio Totals)
http://64.233.167.104/search?q=cache:hyplPOT6YrUJ:www.s...

Ohio 2000



President of the United States
George W. Bush (R) 2,240,012 50.1%
Al Gore (D) 2,043,550 46.3%

Ohio Supreme Court Justice
(Full term commencing 1-1-01)
Tim Black(D) 1,753,862 (Black got 289,688 fewer votes than Gore)
Deborah Cook(R) 1,903,921

(Full term commencing 1-2-01)
Terrence O'Donnell(R) 1,649,680
Alice Robie Resnick(D) 2,168,988 (Resnick got 125,438 MORE votes than Gore!)


Warren County 2000


(from: http://64.233.167.104/search?q=cache:QxpEXnG9Jm8J:www.c... )

FOR PRESIDENT AND VICE-PRESIDENT
GEORGE W. BUSH REP 48,318 69.95
AL GORE DEM 19,142 27.71

FOR JUSTICE OF THE SUPREME COURT
(FULL TERM COMMENCING 1/1/01)
TIM BLACK (DEM) 21,775 38.07
DEBORAH COOK 35,426 61.93
(Black gets 2,633 MORE votes than Gore)

FOR JUSTICE OF THE SUPREME COURT
(FULL TERM COMMENCING 1/2/01)
TERRENCE O'DONNELL 34,663 59.01
ALICE ROBIE RESNICK (DEM) 24,078 40.99
(Resnick gets 4,936 MORE votes than Gore)

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FULL_METAL_HAT Donating Member (673 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-29-04 12:02 AM
Response to Reply #65
66. Butler County 2000 vs 2004

Butler County 2000 Election Results


(from: http://64.233.167.104/search?q=cache:AMFElcvTJekJ:www.d... )


Total Regular Absentee
President
Bush 86,587 77,509 9,078
Gore 46,390 41,520 4,870

DEM State Supreme Court
Black 51,121 46,328 4,793
Diff from Gore 4,731 4,808 -77
% 110.20% 111.58% 98.42%

Resnick 56,628 51,357 5,271
Diff from Gore 10,238 9,837 401
% 122.07% 123.69% 108.23%


REP State Supreme Court
Cook 63,003 56,776 6,227
Diff from Bush -23,584 -20,733 -2,851
% 72.76% 73.25% 68.59%

O'Donnel 60710 54,607 6,103
Diff from Bush -86,587 -22,902 -2,975
% 70.11% 70.45% 67.23%



Butler County 2004 Election Results


(from: http://64.233.167.104/search?q=cache:uYYeeGO2A7sJ:www.b... )
				
Total
President
Bush 106,728
Kerry 54,181

DEM State Supreme Court
Connally 59,527
Diff from Kerry 5,346
% 109.87%
Fuerst 45,413
Diff from Kerry -8,768
% 83.82%
O'Neill 40,937
Diff from Kerry -13,244
% 75.56%

State Supreme Court (REP)
Moyer 66,621
Diff from Bush -40,107
% 62.42%
Lanzinger 79237
Diff from Bush -27,491
% 74.24%
O'Donnell 60710
Diff from Bush 77,813
% 133.68%
Pfeifer 103,263 (unapposed?)
Diff from Bush 57,850
% 227.39%
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sabra Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-29-04 07:30 AM
Response to Reply #65
68. Does this debunke the current allegations?
Or just show more issues that even occurred in 2000?
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