Studies, statistical analysis, anomolies - just ain't gonna get it done

[Jersey Devil]

Maybe it is just the pessimist in me, but I have to conclude that the mainstream press is just never going to cover the evote story unless and until there is objective proof of either major machine malfunction or fraud. Scholars and mathematicians can produce all the studies and analyses they want and even if they conclude that for the election to come out as the officials in Ohio & Fla say they came out the odds would be 8 gazillion to one, or even statistically impossible, it will not matter.

That's why I am hoping that something comes of NH and if not NH then Ohio and if not Ohio then Fla. We have to be able to say: "Bush got X votes in XYZ precinct that were cast for Kerry on optical scan ballots" and then find several more instances of that before it will be taken seriously.

I am keeping my fingers crossed that such proof will develop because if it doesn't then we will never get a court to order the machines themselves be taken apart and examined by scientists to find out exactly how they were programmed and how they work.

[billyoc]

1. Yes, more hard evidence is needed.

We can't just provide statistics. Hopefully some more dramatic news will break this week.

[UL_Approved]

2. Well, its worse than that

We already have a breakdown of how the Diebold machine work. We already have vote breakdowns of excess votes for Bush. We have hard evidence that things have gone awry. The MSM will not cover this unless we can get one network to get on the ball and make it public. Some are RW propaganda mills, but most are probably scared. Keith Olbermann is covering this as much as he can. As more detailed and complete analysis comes out, the idea will get more coverage.

[truehawk]

3. Franklin County Indiana, We already had that

They call it a Glitch or a "programing error" Woopsee!!!
No fraud here!! Nothing to see move along.

that gave Stright Democratic party votes to the Libertarians.

It was evidently a programing error common in the 9th congressinal District, which is why the 9th is under recount.

[jdog]

5. I really believe

we need to start contacting our LOCAL media people who are affiliates of the bigger networks and TALK to them. We are all so involved with email that I think we have forgotten the impact a personal contact can have. I have started putting together a packet that I can deliver to my local newspeople after I talk to them a little on the phone and get them to commit to look at it. Maybe we can begin to garner some local media support.

[CAcyclist]

51. Good for you! I agree - personal contact

is better than an email if you can do it.

[Jersey Devil]

7. I am hoping Bev's tapes lead to something good

Tapes thrown in the garbage that contradict tapes printed later and the machine counts reported would be the kind of smoking gun needed I guess. Otherwise they will be able to continue to write this stuff off as "glitches". It is absolutely amazing to me that when it comes to the most important right we have, the right to vote, people are apparently willing to allow votes to be miscounted on the basis of explanations that essentially say, "Shit happens."

[Jersey Devil]

45. So what does Indiana prove in Ohio or Florida?

Nothing, unless they have the exact same machines, exact same programming and also a party line ballot choice. Then and only then would it be cause to look into party line votes in Ohio or Fla. Do Ohio or Fla even allow party line votes? if the answer is "no" then Indiana is totally irrelevant.

[Warpy]

4. Yes, the press is in "lockdown mode" on this story

and we know they won't cover it.

However, with the assembly of data and hard documentation done by Bev Harris and others, the story will become so big and so obvious that it will be covered in the overseas press, which means online. You can also expect more than one book on it.

As the junta piles one disaster on top of another, people are going to start asking what went wrong. It's important to have all this information available by then, and it doesn't matter much whether the whore press is spoonfeeding the morons and true believers right now. If the press were reporting this story right now, before all the information is known, people would just deny it. The loss of this country isn't something they can wrap their minds around right now.

After all, walk up to a Bush supporter you know and tell him about the massive fraud that handed his candidate an election. See what his reaction is. It's not until these fools start getting civics lessons in their own selfish lives that the awful truth has a chance of penetrating.

[CementDude]

6. Good points..

I'm annoyed with how this "Volusia" thing is panning out. We hear about how original polling tapes are being tossed, vote totals not matching, disproportionate votes for Repubs in "blank" precincts. Then you look back 4 years and you remember that we've been there-done that with the same county/problem. No resolution then.. no proof of fraud, arrests.. just accusations (although there was and is now very suspicious actions/behavior by Volusia officials).

And so here we are now, with this week almost over and the story is already sputtering. Nothing concrete or substantial. No more progress than at the beginning of the week.

Sure, this will all make an interesting documentary a few months from now. But at that point, who is gonna care about "Votergate"? When we're ramping up for war with Iran, will voter fraud be sexy enough for some serious press? Probably not.

So where we'll end up will be the same place at which we started.

The NH recount will probably die as results match election night returns.

The Ohio provisionals get delayed now because the Dems forced Blackwell to release "detailed criteria" to judge validity of ballots. Great, now they have an excuse to ask each county to review the tossed ballots again - furthering to delay the count. Now, for sure, we won't get totals until the very last minute.. December 3?

Repub's margin in FL was so great, that even the HIGH ESTIMATE of 280,000 votes-too-many because of optical machines, IF TRUE, doesn't warrant invalidating the election there.

So all these graphs.. figures.. studies.. it all means nothing. In fact, the more "noise" - the more likely it is that the valid points are ignored.

[tbuddha]

8. the volusia tapes...

should be a story...shouldn't it?

[On the Road]

9. Statistics are Useful to Find Where to Focus Investigations

but in and of themselves, they're not proof. All these claims about "one chance in 250,000" are true ONLY if the information is perfect and there are no response variables. That never happens. Plus, some of the exit polls, such as PA and NH, clearly gave screwy results during the day.

Smoking guns are needed. Bev Harris is making the most valuable effort by getting hard evidence at the local level. I hope the Ohio recount effort is broad enough in include auditing functions like checking votes counted against voters showing up at the polls.

[Jersey Devil]

13. No doubt, the stats are a great way to start and find places to look

and those that have produced the charts and stats have been immensely helpful, but I think Olberman's comments today point out that a Battle of the Statisticians is basically like running around in neverending circles.

I guess I just have to suck it up and be more patient. If there is proof that can be found I think Nader, Cobb & Badanarak and Bev will find it. I am not very optimistic, however, that they will find it in time for this election. Even if they don't, of course this problem must be resolved, but dammit, it will be so much harder.

[DLnyc]

17. post-exit poll

Once statistical methods have exposed certain counties/precincts as 'almost certainly' fraudulent, a direct canvass (possibly with collection of affidavits) of a given precinct could probably provide enough pressure that some one with inside information would either slip up or outright confess.

I'm talking about a large number of volunteers basically interviewing almost everyone in the precinct, guided by the poll lists. You would get a highly accurate picture, sort of like a 'super exit poll'.

[Jersey Devil]

18. Still not "proof" - just another study

People lie about who they voted for. I know that having held office in my town. Hell, after winning an election everyone says they voted for you and if that was accurate I would have won by 100% to 0.

That kind of "proof" and a buckfifty will get you on the NY subway, but it won't get you anything in a court of law.

[DLnyc]

33. How about affidavits?

If you get 453 sworn affidavits saying they voted for Kerry in a precinct that only counted 350 votes for Kerry (say), then I think you really force a criminal investigation.

Also, when you look that closely at various factors like turnout, number of registered Dems/Reps, etc. official stories start to conflict with hard evidence like poll lists, actual number of people in the precinct and so on.

For example, poll list says Mary Fedoolity voted Tuesday morning. Mary Fedoolity turns out to have died 6 years ago. etc.

[Jersey Devil]

44. It might lead to an investigation but I doubt it would yield any results

First off, my bet is that few people would cooperate and sign an affidavit. No one wants to go to court, which then becomes a real possibility. Others will be indignant that you have the audacity to ask them about something that they have always been told is an absolute secret - their ballot. Besides being impractical, affidavits are hearsay and not acceptable as evidence in court. They all would have to testify.

[On the Road]

20. Yes, It Would be a Big Effort

but if there's good evidence it might be worthwhile.

Maybe these polls would be accurate. I'm just concerned at how much the mood has changed since election day -- that skews results. A prosecutor should never ask a question he or she does not already know the answer to. That's what I'm afraid of.

[glitch]

36. Canvass, sworn affadavits are a start and cause for further investigation.

This is a niche moveon.org and GOTV could've shifted to quite easily after the election.
Maybe they still will, after all the statistical and forensic audit anomalies indicate they are needed to clarify what happened.
If only to reassure the electorate that the elections were legitimate.
I know the republicans don't care, but if the democrats ever want to see any kind of turnout again they had better look into it.

[newyawker99]

59. Hi DLnyc!!

Welcome to DU!! :toast:

[kitp]

10. somewhat agree

I agree that mere stat analysis won't get MSM to cover the story.

Note, however, the phrase that is in almost every single story about voting errors or glitches "it won't change the outcome".

This is the running line. We will found hundreds of machine errors and glitches and mistakes and missing votes and every single time these are reported we are told they won't change the outcome.

This is because Bush has a 3.5 million vote lead. We need to push on several fronts. The first is that any machine errors put into question the reliability of all machines.
We need to state that small changes in thousands of precincts add up to millions of votes nationwide.
And, most importantly, we need to demonstrate at least one case of intentional manipulation of the reported vote totals.

MSM needs to be told that the UC Berkeley study, if correct in their 266,000 Bush votes in FL, gives the presidency to Kerry.

MSM needs to be told that the variances in the totals after hand-counting, if applied nationwide, give the presidency to Kerry.

And, Bev needs to uncover evidence of manipulation.

[jdog]

11. when I spoke with a local reporter

he said he couldn't really do any study of these issues because there wasn't a local connection, everything went fine here. But I live in Colorado which was almost entirely an optical scan state. How can we be sure "everything went fine" here?

[truehawk]

21. Call and make an appointment to look over the poll books before they put

them under seal.

Take a freind and go see what you can see locally.

Do the numbers add up??

[Jersey Devil]

23. I can't believe that isn't always done everywhere

I have been involved with elections for several years. In every election when the voting is ended we compare the sign in books at the polls to the number of votes registered on each machine. I find it hard to believe that isn't SOP for every local Democratic organization but I guess it isn't. The DNC has to educate locals on the basics. Maybe that's where it has to start.

[mzmolly]

I agree. They want this OVER, and Kerry's concession meant the media

tuned out.

[John Q. Citizen]

24. The media tune out is bigger than the Kerry concession,

but it is a convienient excuse.

I have been suggesting we create our own media, perhaps through ads or some other way.....

I had given some thought to a national day of flyering, kind of like other third world people do, some have suggested demonstrations outside major media offices, any other suggestions out there as to a way to focus attention on this?

[mzmolly]

31. What I think we need to do is get "user friendly" credible information

and blast it.

I think the Berkely study would be a good start?

I actually want more information myself? I don't understand all the statistical analysis so I am at the mercy of those who can explain it. I am not even 100% convinced of fraud, but my "gut" tells me something is amiss?

We need a national/credible figure to take this up, but first we have to break down the info in english ... ;)

[smartvoter]

12. It's Because the One Argument We Cannot Defeat is...

Kerry conceded.

There is no way to defeat this argument. Simple.

[jdog]

14. I have to disagree with the tone of this thread.

I hear everyone feeling tired and worn out and feeling like they aren't being heard. But every day a new study comes out from credible sources supporting what we have been saying all along. And there ARE stories in the media still, so the issue isn't going away. And the stories in the media seem to be getting less and less skeptical and more along the lines that there really WAS a problem and it needs to be looked at. Kerry's concession doesn't matter. It isn't over and we need to stay strong!

[Jersey Devil]

15. I look at the coverage from a local point of view since I doubt

that there are very many people who go online every day to read the Cincy Enquirer or the Miami Herald. I live in Bergen County, NJ. Our local paper is The Record and so far I have not read one single story about it in this paper serving over 800,000 people, nothing that I have come accross in the NY dailies with the exception of lip service from the Times.

Public awareness is far different than we we read about every day as political junkies.

[kitp]

16. correct

Sorry if my previous post sounded defeatist.

I am absolutely convinced that either GS will not be inaugurated or will have to resign .

I am just anxious to have the sort of MSM coverage of the growing evidence strong enough to put the repubs on the defensive, to taint their 'we can do no wrong' stance, to diminish the 'the people have spoken' argument.

I have not given up, nor will I - ever.

[smartvoter]

19. I agree, but it will be for the future. W/out Kerry, this one is cooked.

This is very important work, but Kerry capped the limit on how far we can go in terms of this election by conceding. Unless he comes forward soon, as in NOW, this one is done. The work we do will be to gain protection in future elections.

Frankly, I can see why the media has been hesitant to come around. If the candidate himself says the numbers aren't there and the party line is there is no evidence of fraud, where is the story????

(I know the answer, and agree, but am making the point that it is Kerry's responsibility at this point -- we can only get so far in this election without the candidate coming around.)

[jdog]

22. Sorry, but I again have to disagree.

This is about the efficacy of our election process, not about John Kerry. This has a life of its own and is not dependent on one person's actions. There is so much going on out there right now, and it will all come together soon. Also, soon we will hit "critical mass" where the MSM cannot ignore us any longer, we are getting closer everyday. No matter why Kerry is staying silent, and there could be many reasons, it DOESN'T MATTER. WE ARE NOT GOING TO LET THEM STEAL THIS ELECTION!

[smartvoter]

28. I hope you are right.

I honestly do, and I am still in this, and will be until the problems are fixed. Doesn't mean we should give up the fight. I just think we will be too late to affect this one unless Kerry comes foward.

Has anyone started a thread exploring the pros and cons of an organized march to Kerry's office, delivering a mass of clips, election complaints and university analyses?

[nashville_brook]

52. this isn't about Kerry

this is OUR vote, OUR country. OUR democracy and we are taking it back!

[rfrrfrrfr]

54. I have to disagree with you

What you are hearing are "Stories" Nothing more. While we have plenty of evidence of documented mistallies on local races and a few in the presidential race none of those all by themselves are going to overturn the election.

Like the original poster said all these statistics, anecdotal information and documented mistallies are very very compelling reasons to be conducting recounts and fraud investigations.They are not proof positive though. It is a shame that the MSM is not at least giving the stories some coverage. They seem to give the repugs points loads of coverage with lots less verifiable information.


it is yet another example of the MSM not doing its job. And if/when we do prove fraud that overtuns the election its one more thing we can use to ram down their throats to get them to start doing it again.

The OP tone was not negative or defeatist. It was mearly stating the reality of the situation. Do I believe there was error/fraud in the election? Yes I do very much so. But if we could prove right now that the election was not fair and was stolen we would not need to do the recounts and fraud investigations now would we?


We also have eveidence of widespread vote supression. We need to track down as many people who are responsible for it and bring them to justice if possible. But thats not gonna overturn the election either.

[nashville_brook]

49. i'm not sure this warrents a response, but

but, NO -- a concession is not binding. period.

[Eloriel]

25. For you, Jersey Devil and others --

what the hell kind of "proof" are you looking for? What constitutes "evidence" to you? What is the tipping point that should trigger massive media coverage, or whatever it is you're looking for?

I'd really like to know. What does that magical point lay?

In the meantime, have a gander at these links:

VOTERSUNITE database of Voting Problems by state
http://www.votersunite.org/electionproblems.asp?sort=state&selectstate=NV&selectproblemtype=ALL

VOTE FRAUD Links - a DU Compendium
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=201&topic_id=1984#

VOTE FRAUD Links Compendium - Thread #2
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=201x3223

ALSO SEE: VOTE FRAUD? What can we do? http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=104&topic_id=2701028#
INCLUDING DONATE to our own DUer hedda_foil's 27, Help America Recount: www.helpamericarecount.org

********SEND THESE TO EVERYONE YOU KNOW AND MEDIA TOO *********
Best Fraud Summary I've seen!
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=203x57214
Link: http://www.bopnews.com
Updated Version: http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=203&topic_id=61029

[Jersey Devil]

27. I have read all the links - very impressive but not "proof"

Look, don't take this the wrong way. The work you and many others have done has been invaluable in bringing attention to this problem and will and has helped those investigating find the right places to look.

But none of it is evidence of fraud or even innacuracy that would stand up in a court of law.

You can pile all the statistics one on top of the other that say the reported election results were wrong until the pile reaches the moon and it is still not evidence.

We need proof that votes counted varied from votes cast and we need proof that it occurred on a widespread basis so that it could have affected the outcome of the election(s).

[Jersey Devil]

30. PS - you have to prove one state at a time

Some of the links you provided were reports of "glitches" in various states, etc., compilations of all different kinds of problems. But, if you go to court in Ohio, for instance, proof that there was a problem with votes in another state will not get you very far. You must have proof in Ohio. That is why I suggest that the proof must show that the fraud and/or innacuracies were widespread in a particular state.

[mzmolly]

32. We can't have "proof" until we have a recount.

The Opti-Scan anomalies are the best shot are they not?

[Jersey Devil]

34. Agreed - probably that is what prompted my original post

after reading this morning's story about the small portion of the recount in NH that said there was "little change". I guess it is all part of the emotional roller coaster we've been on. Maybe my post wasn't such a good idea after all if it is going to discourage others. I hope it doesn't.

[mzmolly]

50. I am thankful for the efforts of the "re-count" movement either way

because we need answers.

If our system is proven fairly accurate and is found to have a shred of integrity, it's still a win. We have to look at it that way as well IMHO.

:hi:

[nolabels]

43. I have seen many people deny the truth even with it sitting...............

in front of their face. Not that they should not be informed but that little belief trait born in genetically I think is very real. Just like us other non-believers, we should never let facts get in our way :crazy:
<sarcasm>

Really I have learned a lot on this DU blog, much more than I have read in most books or newspapers in some cases.

Twenty Five Ways to Supress Truth
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=104&topic_id=1284516

Hugo Chavez - Bush's Nemesis- The Revolution Will Not Be Televised
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=104&topic_id=728987

The problem with conspiracy theories.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=104&topic_id=632564

What we MUST realize in order to win - Americans are stupid and uninformed
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=104&topic_id=495887

DU MKULTRA thread-let's talk about mind control, factually now.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=104&topic_id=1414094

[rfrrfrrfr]

55. Proof

That will actually overtun the election or that will stand up in court if presented to a judge. Like I said in my earlier post if we had that now we wouldn't need to do fraud investigations or recounts now would we?

Bev Harris may have picked up some in Florida recently but we won't really know till its analyzed and/or BBV makes their evidence public, which they for very good reasons, are not doing at the moment.

[seaclyr]

26. I agree, not by studies and statistics alone n/t

[Jersey Devil]

29. That was my point, though those with the stats now seem annoyed

I wasn't taking a poke at them. To the contrary, their efforts have been highly valuable.

But now we are past the point where mathematical and statistical probablilities can call attention to voting problems.

We need proof that the votes recorded differed from the votes cast that comes from the machines, ballots (where they exist such as with optical scan), etc. Nothing less than that will suffice as real evidence.

[Kralizec]

35. OK - 33+ replies on common sense: not one of the quickest DU threads, hehe

Of course hard evidence is needed. But the only people who can get that is Bev, Nader, Cobb, Badnarik, and YOU (take pics of local polls). Until all that connected, sit tight.

[Jersey Devil]

39. We always check local polls - always

As I said somewhere else in this string, I am absolutely amazed that only now are others doing that. It is so simple and automatic (for us in my locale) to look at the numbered voter sign in slips at the polls and then compare them to the number of votes registered on the machines that I just took it for granted that everyone else does it.

How could we as a party be that sloppy?

[pipes]

37. Where is BBV on this Falusia thing

Oh I mean Volusia but why haven't we really heard anything since Monday or Tuesday? The garbage tapes, possible arrests? Nothing has been updated on her site since Tuesday and it seemed to me that it was a huge story...

Bev where are you and the others working for our democracy, what has happened with the lockdown of the Elections office and the witch that was giving you troubles?

This all stinks so bad, it makes me wanna puke right on KKKRove and * himself!

[pointsoflight]

41. The problem is...

Bev is working under tremendous time constraints. If her team spends all of their time pouring over the material they now have, they've lost their opportunity to uncover information in other counties before the electoral votes are counted.

[newyawker99]

60. Hi pipes!!

Welcome to DU!! :toast:

[pointsoflight]

38. Don't underestimate their importance, though.

Given that we have few people on the ground that are investigating and are working with little time, these analyses point us to where there might be problems, so efforts can be focused in those locations.

In addition, if just one of these studies is supported by recounts that show problems with the original counts, then all of these studies become much more important. The problem right now is that the statistical studies point to anomalies but can't offer a definitive answer as to why those anomalies exist. BUT, if a recount shows that the original tallies were way off, then we know that the answer is not about demographics, etc., but is directly tied to the original counts in some way. By extension, we'd then have much stronger reason to believe other anomalies may have to do with the original counts.

[jdog]

40. right! n/t

[Pithy Cherub]

42. Truly, the cowardly press is waiting for a

big name Democrat to say it out loud, on camera in front of witnessess and preferably with a Bible in hand -Fraud, stolen,etc,. The 'press' is no longer known for investigative journalism - hence the reason so many snarky comments about Keith from his journalistic stepford bretheren. The print press runs with information from external sources - but the anlaysis is left for the calorie-lite soundbites of TV. Currently, there is no well-known currently elected Democrat willing to step up to the microphone and say the F-word!

[heyokabear]

46. Democrats not talking

As I posted in another thread...

I'm from MA, and I called my congressman who's workers said "Kerry has asked all Democrats in Congress to not stir the waters" regarding election problems.

Kerry's office said "I can't confirm or deny" (that we said that)

So (it seems) Kerry has locked down the dems, and the media is locked down too.

bear

[intelle]

47. Do you have any idea why Kerry

asked the Dems to keep quiet? Do you think he doesn't want to give the Reps more time to mount a defense?

[heyokabear]

48. I'd be guessing why

The Congressman's office wouldn't speculate or really go any further. Kerry's office certainly didn't say why either. I was disappointed, personally.

If I was to guess...(always dangerous)...

Either Kerry is deliberately laying low, with a plan (I have no idea what) or

I'm left concluding that by not taking the risk of being public he's protecting himself as a Senator and a possible '08 candidate.

And really, maybe it serves BOTH Dems and Republicans for the common voter to just blindly trust the system. In that case, better to lose one election and live as the co-party in power (granted, owned by Corp money) than to risk losing the whole nest egg.

Personally, I dont want to think that, and I've also been a long time Kerry fan. So I'm hoping there's a plan. But I wont tolerate just sweeping this under the rug either.

bear

[intelle]

53. From another thread:

Kerry (just released)

"Regardless of the outcome of this election, once all the votes are counted -- and they will be counted -- we will continue to challenge this administration. This is not a time for Democrats to retreat and accommodate extremists on critical principles -- it is a time to stand firm.

I will fight for a national standard for federal elections that has both transparency and accountability in our voting system. It's unacceptable in the United States that people still don't have full confidence in the integrity of the voting process.

I ask you to join me in this cause."

Kerry may be getting tough.

[newyawker99]

61. Hi heyokabear!!

Welcome to DU!! :toast:

[FreeCajun]

56. Here's a new meme:

TERRORISTS HACKED OUR VOTE!

"Terrorists hacked the vote to put people in power that were less effective against terrorism." Cite the Rand Corporation report (the thinktank of strategists and economists that "won the Cold War") that showed that terrorists wanted Bush and Republicans in power (they did). Then we show how Diebold and optiscan machines were insecure, show how it is destabilizing and following a fundamentalist agenda which is what "THEY" want, etc. We compile it all and use the RW agenda of making people jump at shadows from "terrorists" to our advantage.

The MSM don't want to attack the RW political machine (and are probably aready subverted by it), same with the FBI and CIA, but they couldn't ignore this as easily! I'm also sure there's a lot of resentment over the pressures they're under: don't slave hate their masters?

The terrorism meme is already part of the dominant mindset. This positioning of the story should give us the chink in the armor we need to slip the story into the spotlight. Once its found out who really did it, though, they can't just drop it, they have to follow it through to the bitter end, and they can always claim plausible deniability if it LOOKED like someone other than Republicans did it.

Anyone with me? I'd have posted this as a start to a thread but I don't have that privilege yet.

[Hobbes199]

57. No, because it sounds like a tin-foil hat conspiracy theory

We're not going to be able to convince them that we're not safe from terrorist hackers, because this administration is doing a fine job of protecting us so far. Not one single terrorist attack on US soil since 9/11/01.

[nolabels]

58. When your the biggest terrorist on the block whats to be scared

Hell dress me up in a monkey suit too. If you always believe what others tell you will be, you will always be where you are. Yea :tinfoilhat: tinfoil got mine on now, keeps the hair from falling out :think:

It's quite okay with me whatever you think or you telling other people they are crazy to here it. But now your mission has grown a hundred times the size, you got to tell that to millions of people that voted not to just a few anymore. So really just keep on, it makes the tinfoil seem kind of quaint.

Our best regards for your efforts

Big Media, Some Nerve!

By Robert Parry
November 13, 2004

You might think that the major media that got suckered by George W. Bush’s Iraqi weapons-of-mass-destruction claims just last year would show some humility about its own fallibility.

But, no, the elite U.S. news media is now criticizing common citizens who have raised questions about voter fraud in the Nov. 2 election. The New York Times has joined the Washington Post and other major news outlets in scouring the Internet to find and discredit Americans who have expressed suspicions that Bush’s victory might not have been entirely legitimate. The New York Times' front-page story was entitled, “Vote Fraud Theories, Spread By Blogs, Are Quickly Buried.”

As odd as these attacks might seem to some, this pattern of protecting the Bush family has a history. It actually dates back a couple of decades, as the major media has either averted its eyes or rallied to the Bushes’ defense when the family has faced suspicions of lying or corruption.
(snip)
http://www.consortiumnews.com/2004/111304.html

[googly]

62. In the meanwhile.....the clock keeps ticking, and it reminds of a

situation where a pedestrian is hit by a runaway car and we are waiting for the medics to arrive while the victim lays there bleeding, his life slowly draining away.

Where the fuxx is Kerry and his $45 million to get some high powered muscle behind this? Why are we depending on GLibs who have neither the money or the manpower? I am soooooo frustrated.