Just listening to Randi Rhodes - How's this for an Idea?

[The Doctor.]

Randi is explaining to a caller that the Electors of the Electoral College are not bound IN ANY WAY to cast their votes in accordance with state totals.

Is this true?

If it is - what would it mean if Ohio and Florida's Electors are fully apprised of these fraud issues?

- could they split?

I know it happened before, what do you guys think?

[Joylaughter]

1. Bought and sold

while the trail grows cold.

[ahimsa]

2. So what you are saying is..

..even if the numbers change in Kerry's favor, they may still vote for Bush?!? Hehe, I know that's not what you were saying but it's equally likely.
:shrug:

[FULL_METAL_HAT]

3. "Faithless Electors" (from wikipedia)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/U.S._Electoral_College#Faithless_electors

Faithless electors
On 156 occasions from 1796-2000, presidential electors have cast their vote in a different manner than that prescribed by the popular election results for the state or district they represent. Of those, 71 votes were changed because the original candidate died before the elector was able to cast a vote. The remaining 82 were changed by the elector's personal interest. Usually, the faithless electors act alone. An exception was in 1836 when 23 Virginia electors changed their vote together. Still, no faithless elector has ever changed the outcome of any election.

There are laws to punish faithless electors in 24 states. While no faithless elector has ever been punished, the constitutionality of state pledge laws was brought before the Supreme Court in 1952 (Ray v. Blair, 343 US 214). The court ruled in favor of state's right to legally require electors to vote as pledged, as well as remove electors who refuse to pledge. As stated in the ruling, electors are acting as a function of the state, not the federal government. Therefore, states have the right to govern electors.

Recent incidents of faithless electors include:

• 2000 election: D.C. elector Barbara Lett-Simmons, pledged for Democrats Al Gore and Joe Lieberman, cast no electoral votes, protesting what she described as the federal district's "colonial status."
  
• 1988 election: West Virginia elector Margaret Leach, pledged for Democrats Michael Dukakis and Lloyd Bentsen, instead of casting her votes for the candidates in their positions on the national ticket, cast her presidential vote for Bentsen and her vice-presidential vote for Dukakis.
  
• 1976 election: Washington state elector Mike Padden, pledged for Republican Gerald Ford and Bob Dole, cast his presidential electoral vote for Ronald Reagan, who had challenged Ford for the Republican nomination. He cast his vice-presidential vote, as pledged, for Dole.
  
• 1972 election: Virginia elector Roger MacBride, pledged for Republicans Richard Nixon and Spiro Agnew, cast his electoral votes for Libertarian candidates John Hospers and Theodora Nathan. MacBride's vote for Nathan was the first electoral vote cast for a woman in U.S. history.
  
• 1968 election: North Carolina elector Lloyd W. Bailey, pledged for Republicans Richard Nixon and Spiro Agnew, cast his votes for American Independent Party candidates George Wallace and Curtis LeMay
  
• 1960 election: Oklahoma elector Henry D. Irwin, pledged for Republicans Richard Nixon and Henry Cabot Lodge, Jr., cast his presidential electoral vote for independent candidate Harry Flood Byrd (also supported by 15 "unpledged" Democratic delegates). Unlike other delegates who voted for Byrd for president, Irwin cast his vice-presidential electoral vote for Barry Goldwater.
  
• 1956 election: Alabama elector W. F. Turner, pledged for Democrats Adlai Stevenson and Estes Kefauver, cast his votes for Walter Burgwyn Jones and Herman Talmadge.
  
• 1948 election: Tennessee elector Preston Parks, pledged for Democrats Harry Truman and Alben Barkley, cast his votes for States' Rights Democratic Party candidates Strom Thurmond and Fielding Wright.
  

All the best,

FULL_METAL_HAT

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[kainah]

16. interesting in 2000

This same idea came up in 2000. And the interesting thing was that a lot of conventional wisdom going into that election predicted * could win the popular vote but lose the electoral college. So the right was all geared up to lobby the electors to change their votes, based on the expected popular "mandate."

So, when exactly the opposite occurred, it was the left who found themselves eager to use a website, listing all the electors, that had been put together by Claremont McKenna College, a noted right-wing bastion, for use by the righties in the expected aftermath.

Needless to say, nothing came of it although thousands wrote emails trying to convince just a few electors to switch their votes. The only result was the one DC elector for Gore who didn't cast a vote at all, in protest.

This year, there was a WV elector pledged to Bush who had said he wasn't sure he would carry out that vote. However, I think he has recently said he will cast his vote for B/C.

In any case, trying again can't hurt. Claremont McKenna College may have updated their electors page, if you want to try searching it out.

[jhgatiss]

4. I just posted a message here....

with a list of Ohio's electors and it went away!

So here it comes again...

http://www.sos.state.oh.us/sos/news/guide/PresidentialElectors.pdf

[BlackVelvet04]

5. Info on electors

"On 156 occasions from 1796-2000, presidential electors have cast their vote in a different manner than that prescribed by the popular election results for the state or district they represent. Of those, 71 votes were changed because the original candidate died before the elector was able to cast a vote. The remaining 82 were changed by the elector's personal interest. Usually, the faithless electors act alone. An exception was in 1836 when 23 Virginia electors changed their vote together. Still, no faithless elector has ever changed the outcome of any election.

There are laws to punish faithless electors in 24 states. While no faithless elector has ever been punished, the constitutionality of state pledge laws was brought before the Supreme Court in 1952 (Ray v. Blair, 343 US 214). The court ruled in favor of state's right to legally require electors to vote as pledged, as well as remove electors who refuse to pledge. As stated in the ruling, electors are acting as a function of the state, not the federal government. Therefore, states have the right to govern electors."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/U.S._Electoral_College#Faithless_electors

[wiggs]

6. Same thought echoed through DU last week.

The thinking was that it is technically feasible...if doubt is cast on the election, Iraq is going really badly, Plame happens, etc...then enough people would see this administration for the disaster that it is to really regret their votes. I think some electoral delegates (or all, I'm not sure) don't have to remain faithful; they can switch.

There are three problems with this:

1) The media won't let the image of this administration get flushed down the toilet. Iraq is going badly, and we're not hearing about it. This won't change unless media ownership does.

2) If the last 4 years didn't change the minds of most people, the next month won't, no matter what

3) Electoral delegates are the most loyal of the followers. The likelihood of a delegate either not casting his vote for Bush and/or giving it to Kerry is slim. They are the core believers who have worked hard for or benefitted from this administration. This would be surprising to say the least, and upsettig to a good many angry people with guns.

Having said that, it is probably about as likely to happen as a 70% democratic Florida precint voting overwhelmingly for Bush.

[jhgatiss]

7. I don't think it could hurt to try though...

Maybe if we got big pictures of the dead in Fallujah to hold up in front of their houses. That's what the pro-lifers always do and it works for them right? ;-)

[wiggs]

10. Actually, that's what needs to be done.

Someone needs to report on the reality on the ground in Fallujah. If you try hard, you can find scattered reports on how brutal, devastating, horrible, and inhuman conditions are there.

This would be a powerful jolt of reality to many people.

[Cadence]

13. True!

very true! Except we're going to start calling them pro-birthers since they don't actually care what happens to the children after their born and certainly don't want to make sure they have healthcare.

Time to change tactics and play the game the way they do.

This being intelligent and wanting to have productive debate centered around logic and reason is getting us NOWHERE fast.

:7

[Truthbeknown]

17. Here's the pictures

At this link: http://fallujapictures.blogspot.com /

[jhgatiss]

18. This haunts me...

I didn't sleep well last night and I think this is why.

[The Doctor.]

8. I guess it's a shoe-in then...

:smile:

[JudyM]

11. LOL and sighing

[Cadence]

9. Does anyone know

how the people that are electors are chosen?

I've always wanted to know.

[Guava Jelly]

12. they are normally party loyalist

I think bathing a bengal tiger would be easier then converting enough diehard repubs to vote kerry.
I am not saying dont try i am saying its a reallllly long shot.
I remember in 2000 we tried the same thing..it didnt work

[Hobbes199]

14. Electors are selected

Based off which party won the popular vote. If fraud comes out after Dec 13, then our best hope would be for the conscience of the repub electors to either cast in favor of the actual winner, or decline to cast at all.

[Guava Jelly]

15. the popular vote of the state not country

if the popular vote was how they selected electors then gore would have been pres in 2000