The Ohio Recount...When Ohio Flips for Kerry

[Karenca]

When do we know them?..Do you know when they will be done?
If, after the counts are done, and Kerry gets more votes than Bush, is it over...really over?


:toast:

[Kira]

1. What will the electoral count be

if Ohio flips?

[Karenca]

2. It will be a win for Kerry

I dont remember the exact number, but all Kerry needed was Ohio!

[jsamuel]

5. If only Ohio flips, Kerry 272, Bush 266

[NY lib NY]

6. 272...

I think

[Horse with no Name]

48. One article I read

stated that Rehnquist was working from home. I am sure that in such a high profile event that he would be able to vote.

[ClassWarrior]

3. I'm afraid we'll probably have to fight some more...

Freekazoid Radical RWers who'll refuse to hand over power responsibly. But I'm up for it. I've come this far - I'm not backing down now.

NGU.

[truehawk]

4. No the Rethugs are prepared to go to the Supream Court

And argue the same case they were prepared to argue in 2000, that the popular vote should elect the president.

However this time the Supreams might not go along. O Conner and Reinquist might choke on what Bush is doing this time around.

It is worth it to smoke them out.

[rockedthevoteinMA]

9. do you think rheinquist will be back in time? n/t

[politicasista]

10. Justice Clarence Uncle Thomas is scary!

The Supreme Court are Bush's friends. Another reason I voted for Kerry. Yuck!:evilfrown:

[rockedthevoteinMA]

23. some of them

they are very conservative compared with past SJC's. But four of them sometimes lean to the center, rather than far right. So if
Rheinquist is out - than it might be tied 4-4 ...but what happens then?

[Rev_Karl]

27. If Supreme Court ties then the decision of the lower court stands. n/t

[ThoughtCriminal]

22. No, a different strategy

The Constitution is too clear on that - the Popular vote is not a factor except as PR.

More likely, they will try to fight the validity of the provisional votes, Blackwell will not certify any result that does not = Bush win, run out the clock, override the vote in the legislature. The SCOTUS will favor Bush on even the flimsiest of legal arguments, but they can't completely ignore the Constitution.

[prof_science]

51. If SCOTUS throws it to * again...

...please feel free to join me as I storm up the supreme court steps and break every frail bone in their weakened bodies.

[truehawk]

7. We need to out the vote padding too.

[JudyM]

8. We will PARTAY!

:party: :toast: :bounce: :smoke: :smoke: :crazy: :loveya: :grouphug: :headbang:

[faithfull]

12. If only Ohio flips, Kerry 272, Bush 266

My original prediction exactly :nuke:

Please dont get your hopes up. Please! I cant take it again!!

[politicasista]

14. Dumb question, but

How will we know if Ohio flips? Don't the GOP electors cast their votes for Bush? I am new to this, but how does that go?

[JudyM]

37. Not a dumb question. The 'flip' is in voter majority tabulation n/t

[regnaD kciN]

58. If Kerry is declared the winner of Ohio's popular vote...

...his electors are seated instead of Bush's.

[Road Scholar]

13. Eggzackley!!!!! NT

:toast:

[KansDem]

26. Party? It's "Party Time...!!!"

Party ^Up!!!...:party:

Party _Down!!!...:party:

YEOW!!! Kicking Repub butt one cheek at a time! :kick:

:dem:

[dbonds]

11. You have to expect they have backup plans for everything

I imagine this particular scenario was not planned for. They expect Kerry to contest and the backup plans were based on that. But they are most likely working on something now. I actually have doubts if everything goes our way, the EC says Kerry is next president that bush will give up office - something will happen.

[Road Scholar]

18. I would expect Bushco would have to be escorted out by force.

I believe they would resist. They are that crazy and self righteous. Maybe notcivil war, but something ugly.

[noiretextatique]

50. let's hope there will be enough evidence

to force them out...in handcuffs.

[jsascj]

36. Yea...They'll pull out OBL again

[Ducks In A Row]

15. we'll see lots of freepers setting themselves on fire

at least the network news will report it. of course they'll say the kerry stolen the election.

there will be hysterics.

YEA!!!!!! :D

[gauguin57]

44. If Freepers are setting themselves on fire, I'll bring the marshmallows.

Someone else bring the chocolate and graham crackers. S'mores for everyone!

[Benhurst]

47. I hate to admit it, but I laughed out loud at your post. Shame on me!

:spank:

[On the Road]

16. If That Starts Looking Like a Possibility

Republicans will start asking for recounts in close states, too. Then all hell will break loose.

[no1hedberg]

56. I'm pretty sure

That most states have time limits on recount requests. Maybe Kerry's concession was to keep GOP from watching what goes on behind the scenes. That would be some justice for 2000 if Kerry slipped Ohio out from under their noses while they patted each other on the back, and time ran out on them in other states!!!

Realistically though I think we need to concentrate on getting a serious investigation off the ground nationwide on all the voting irregularities, and suppression. Obviously there was a nationwide organized effort to fix this election. If we don't catch them this time, they will better know how to cover their tracks in 2006!

[BillZBubb]

17. If this unlikely event happens, the Repugs will STALL!

Because the constitution requires strict deadlines to be met for naming electors, the Repugs will go to the courts to challenge the count. The Repug judges will slow down the process to the point where the Ohio legislature must appoint the electors to meet the deadline. They will name the Repug slate. Then only, congress can attempt to change it. Lots of luck on that.

[pa28]

24. That sounds about right.

They have the courts, the secretary of state, the legislature. In other words wired from nose to tail. Your vote does NOT count.

[Samantha]

25. No can do

On the day set aside as Election Day by Congress, each state must not only have its people vote, it must choose its slate of electors that same day. All states (with the exception of Maine) stipulate by their state constitutions the slate of elector will be determined as a result of the popular vote.

It is possible to change the way the slate of electors is decided as long as a state does that BEFORE election day. It is not possible to do that AFTER the election, because it would violate the Constitution.

My source for this information is David Boies, who published his new book about one week before the election. Great timing, right? That is explained in the portion relating to Bush v. Gore. Specifically, Boies was commenting on Jim Baker's repeated threat during the 2000 election to have the State Legislature in Florida present a slate regardless if Gore won the recount. Jim Baker, an attorney, knew as he looked into the camera and threatened that, that this would be unconstitutional because the State Constitution of Florida specifically said the popular vote would determine the slate of electors. But Baker said it anyway. Most of us did not know this finer point of Constitutional Law, but we do now, thanks to David Boies. So if Blackwell comes out with that threat, we know what to do.

Thank you, David Boies.

[BillZBubb]

43. No, stalling still works for the Repugs.

If Ohio's electors are not certified, Bush* still wins. The Repug SOS from Ohio can fail to certify the election results. Then, Ohio's electors won't be valid. So, the House of Representatives selects Bush*.

It really doesn't matter whether the Ohio legislature intercedes or not.

[paula777]

19. If it happened in this county then it can happen in Ohio

I posted this in another thread but here it is again, PROVING that a recount CAN change the outcome

http://news.bostonherald.com/politics/view.bg?articleid=53842&format=

[The Doctor.]

20. There probably won't be enough Kerry votes unless...

They find the extra votes bush** got and get rid of them - that'll be a tough one.

Without paper receipts it'll be difficult.

[Nederland]

21. Typical DU discussion

Counting chickens before they hatch. Sad, but typical.

[Carl Brennan]

30. Asking a question is not counting chickens.

:eyes:

[Toucano]

35. What's sad about it?

I don't feel sad at all. Please elaborate on your saddness.

[bullimiami]

28. then republican tricks start anew.

they will try to get extra slates of electors from any rep controlled kerry state. they will challenge the count in congress. they will put people on the streets protesting, they will attack it in the media, they will scream about the popular vote (oh yes they will).

the gloves will be OFF.

[Chomp]

29. The only game in town...

...is overturning the PV. Kerry cannot claim the crown with a 3.5m PV loss. Morally and practically impossible.

Many will say an EV victory is only a precursor to a PV victory anyway, but a 272-266 technicality wouldn't be good for anyone.

[IAMREALITY]

31. I disagree

Bush out of the White House is good for fucking EVERYBODY!!!!

[Hobbes199]

32. What's good for the goose...

There's perfect justification to it, and if there's any dispute then do a nationwide audit or recount, and it would show back up in the proper light. Or do a nationwide revote, assuming the problem systems are out of the running, I don't think anyone would be too afraid of that — anyone who didn't have something to worry about in the first place, or didn't have something to hide in the second.

[Toucano]

33. Oh, no.

That's the way the Constitution works. Electoral vote is all that matters.

It was good enough for Dubya, it's good enough for us.

[The_Counsel]

34. Uh... The Constitution Says the Popular Vote is Irrelevant.

That's exactly what the GOP-ers were saying to shut the Gore fans up four years ago. Constitutionally, they had a point...

A 272-266 Kerry victory in the face of a PV loss isn't practical, but it's enough to get sworn in January 20. Just as 271-267 in the face of a PV loss didn't really work for bush in 2000, but he was the guy they swore in, much to our chagrin. It would be about time something happened to the Republicans chagrin for a change, don't 'cha think...?

[John Q. Citizen]

41. Unless you take the US constitution into account

[mcg]

42. OH yes he can, list of Presidents elected without a majority:

Year President Electoral % Popular %
1824 John Q. Adams 31.8 29.8
1844 James K. Polk (D) 61.8 49.3
1848 Zachary Taylor (W) 56.2 47.3
1856 James Buchanan (D) 58.7 45.3
1860 Abraham Lincoln (R) 59.4 39.9
1876 Rutherford B. Hayes (R) 50.1 47.9
1880 James A. Garfield (R) 57.9 48.3
1884 Grover Cleveland (D) 54.6 48.8
1888 Benjamin Harrison (R) 58.1 47.8
1892 Grover Cleveland (D) 62.4 46.0
1912 Woodrow Wilson (D) 81.9 41.8
1916 Woodrow Wilson (D) 52.1 49.3
1948 Harry S. Truman (D) 57.1 49.5
1960 John F. Kennedy (D) 56.4 49.7
1968 Richard M. Nixon (R) 56.1 43.4
1992 William J. Clinton (D) 68.8 43.0
1996 William J. Clinton (D) 70.4 49.0
2000 George W. Bush (R) 50.3 47.8

Besides, there was massive election fraud and voter suppression.
Kerry most likely DID get the popular vote.

[johnaries]

55. Just to throw a wrench in everybody's argument...

but the popular vote does not count, only the Electoral Vote. Actually, you're not even voting for the Electoral vote, you're voting for the person who will cast the Electoral Vote. In some states, the person casting the Electoral Vote is not required to vote one way or the other. Therefore, even though the popular vote in a state may be for one candidate, the person(s) casting the Electoral Vote can legally vote for another candidate.

[KAZ]

45. Oh blow it out your ass....

Chimp did it.. Chomp on this.

[Carolab]

52. That's a CRAP argument because

* did NOT get the popular vote in 2000--REMEMBER?????????

[O.M.B.inOhio]

53. Popular Vote

Yeah, let the RepugnantOnes embrace the popular vote... and send Al Gore to the White House!

[Dancing_Dave]

38. IS THE KERRY CAMPAIGN ACTIVE IN OHIO???

I know they weren't the ones to demand a recount. Supposedly, they've got a lot of lawyers investigating possible fraud, but is it really going anywhere?

[politicasista]

39. Is it?

There hasn't been a peep out of Kerry and Edwards since Blue Wednesday.

[carpetbagger]

40. Watch for a refusal to certify in Congress.

Cheney could, in joint session, refuse to count the Ohio votes.

Then we'll find out once and for all if we really do live in a democracy.

[shakerbaker]

46. Wouldn't that

take them away from Bush then?

[grace0418]

49. I'm already sure we don't, at least

while we suffer under the BushCo regime.

[O.M.B.inOhio]

54. Repugs are reading...

... so if you've got clever ideas about what procedural roadblocks they can put up to a Kerry EC victory, is it wise to share them publicly? I'm trying to focus energy on action to get every vote counted, vulnerable technologies identified, and crooks exposed.
O.M.B.

[jsw_81]

57. Ohio isn't going to "flip" for Kerry

The election is over and Bush won. John Kerry -- along with the entire leadership of the Democratic party -- admitted this almost two weeks ago when he conceded. Why can't you face reality?

[jsamuel]

59. What hole did you just come out of... Go back to Gen. Dis.

[rfrrfrrfr]

60. You need to face reality.

The reality is currently this election stinks worse than a dead skunk.
Now if the recounts reveal that the smell is nothing more than a rotting bag of tomatoes someone left lying out and the election was ok, then come here and post that Kerry lost.

But until the recounts are done you can't say for sure that the election is over anymore than you can say that it is not over. We simply don't have the information to make that kind of determination yet. I mean we could discover massive voter fraud and still come up 1 vote short of changing the outcome of the election. But thats why its important to do the recounts.

And irregardless of the outcome don't you want to make absolutely sure the votes were counted correctly no matter who won anyway? The recounts need to be done even if it is only to confirm Bush won.

[saracat]

61. Because we don't want to accept that as our reality!

And there is just as much evidence to prove Kerry won as Bush did!.At least enough to start asking serious questions. In AZ we have a county that is registered four to one Dem and yet it allegedly voted five to one for Bush! we would also have to believe , due to the the way the vote volume was tabulated, that the Dems all voted early in the morning in that county. And as our National Committeewoman says , that alone causes her to question these votes! And there is a recount in Ohio and the Kerry lawyers have gone to investigate. I have also seen a couple of letters that Edwards has sent to party officials that strongly suggest he is continuing to investigate. I don't know what really happened, and I don't know what the outcome might be, but this is a bizarre election year and anything is possible. A Stanford statistics prof, posted on this board, said the odds of a Bush win, as currently stated, as opposed to the exit polls ,is 250 million to one. All I am saying is there are two sides to everything and to be dogmatic about either at this point, is to be so without the complete facts.

[righteous1]

64. Your right

It's one think to be hopeful, another when it's just plain delusional. We have a 133000 deficit to make up. 155000 x 80% acceptance = 125000 provisionals that have been breaking about as the general. even if the went 60 40 for JK it wont be close to enough. Remember in Florida 2000 all the recounting in Miami Dade and Palm Beach/Broward and we netted a grand total of 700 votes. Lets get busy on doing what we have to do to take back America

[RealityCheck04]

65. Absolutely

It took a month and a half to net 700 votes in FL in 2000. And that was with the whole DNC working at it. Gaining 130,000 votes in three weeks based on a vote count by a couple of minor party candidates would be unheard of.

[Dcitizen]

62. Maybe they shall ask for more recountings again by machines

in that case and then we will help them to fireup shipment of e vote devices to get refunds. ;)

[bunny planet]

63. does anybody besides me think that

the Congressional Black Caucus will formerly protest again at the January 6th certifying of the electors in the Senate, if it gets to that point. (remember the infamous scene in Farenheit 911) Cheney will preside as VP, but this time CBC will have the Senate signatures they need to contest. I'm not totally informed on this, but what happens then, if CBC lodges a formal protest and gets a Senator or Senators to sign on with them this time? Does anyone know?