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NY Times Says Holt to be Delayed (at least major parts)

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kpete Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-19-07 11:59 PM
Original message
NY Times Says Holt to be Delayed (at least major parts)
Edited on Fri Jul-20-07 12:01 AM by kpete
This still doesn't necessarily mean that there won't be a vote on some remnant of the Holt Bill, as Land Shark suggested in his thread earlier today, but the New York Times is now reporting that "House leaders now advocate putting off the most sweeping changes until 2012" regarding Holt.

For the most part, the story attempts to spin the matter as merely one of inadequate time prior to 2008.

To his credit, Rep. Holt states that there are "many competing interests." But to the NYT's discredit, they only mention election officials and advocates for the disabled, along with one referent to "some activists" as having lost here, but not even what their arguments may have been. Thus, the NYT does not do justice to Holt proponents who likely argued that existing deadlines could work.

Was anyone on DU invited to the negotiations that the article refers to, or know anyone who was?


http://www.nytimes.com/2007/07/20/washington/20vote.htm...

Overhaul Plan for Vote System Will Be Delayed



Democratic leaders in the House and Senate are slowing their drive to revamp the nations voting systems, aides said yesterday.

Under pressure from state and local officials, as well as from lobbyists for the disabled, House leaders now advocate putting off the most sweeping changes until 2012, four years later than planned.

Overhauling voting systems before next years presidential election had once been a top Democratic priority, primarily to allow greater accountability and be certain that all votes registered on computerized touch-screen systems were counted. But state and local elections officials told Congress they could not make the changes in time for the balloting in November 2008, particularly in light of the extra workload involved in preparing for next years much-earlier presidential primary season.

Confronted by similar concerns, Senator Dianne Feinstein, Democrat of California and the chairwoman of the Senate Rules Committee, said she had already decided against seeking any major changes in voting equipment before 2010.

Much more at link above...
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Bill Bored Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-20-07 12:05 AM
Response to Original message
1. Oh and then there's this part:
"House Democratic officials say they are now working on compromise legislation that could allow hundreds of counties in 20 states to simply add tiny, cash-register-style printers to their touch-screen machines for the 2008 and 2010 elections, while waiting for manufacturers to develop better technology by 2012."
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Bill Bored Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-20-07 12:11 AM
Response to Reply #1
2. So in other words...
Edited on Fri Jul-20-07 12:24 AM by Bill Bored
...they are going from a requirement for optical scan, which is the only way to comply with HR811, to TOILET PAPER VVPATs next year!!!

That will help. :sarcasm:

And then in 2012, there will be new industrial-strength DREs!

I'm so glad Congress is listening to all the brilliant activists who have been unfairly dissing the Holt bill.

Oh, and BTW, I don't think Avante has a patent on toilet paper, do you? Maybe we should have our "crack" reporter MCM investigate that one! :yourock:

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kpete Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-20-07 12:19 AM
Response to Reply #2
3. Is there some evidence in the NY Times (at least) that Congress listened to anti-Holt activists?
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Bill Bored Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-20-07 12:21 AM
Response to Reply #3
4. Yeah at least 3: Diebold, ES&S and Sequoia. nt
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Land Shark Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-20-07 12:30 AM
Response to Reply #4
5. Oh, did not know you considered Diebold, Sequoia etc "Brilliant Activists"

But even though that seems an awkward phrase you're right the vendors were involved with successfully obtaining the changes on the source code provisions in the House Admin committee
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Bill Bored Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-20-07 12:46 AM
Response to Reply #5
6. Their divide & conquer strategy is brilliant.
What you have to work out is how to ask for what you want, without them actually getting what they want.
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Heath Hatcher Donating Member (394 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-20-07 12:53 AM
Response to Reply #6
7. This is terrible
I read 811 last night, this could of broughten change and decent reform to a well needed reform system and now it's all washed away because of a couple of people that thought that 811 would be worse then e-voting.

I think i'm really gonna throw up now because of.


GODDAMN YOU PEOPLE, YOU ANTI-HR811 PEOPLE HOW COULD OF LET THIS HAPPEN!!
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WillYourVoteBCounted Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-20-07 02:37 PM
Response to Reply #7
16. The Wolves in Sheeps Clothing and Neo Cons

The Voting Machine Technology Lobby, The Election Center, and the Association of County Commissioners and Jim Dickson (Diebolds buddy) are working together to kill any federal legislation that requires paper.

Yes there are activists trying to help them.

All Your Votes Are Belong To US


HR 811: Voting Machine Companies to Congress: All Your Votes Are Belong to US...


Election Center - Wolf in Sheeps Clothing


VoteTrustUSA - The Election Center
This week a "wolf in sheep's clothing", The Election Center, will be in Washington DC in full force to lobby our Congressmen.

Bye Bye Ballot Box - Hello Internet Voting?


Meanwhile, Internet Voting is spreading in other countries, and rearing its ugly head in the United States.
An Internet Voting Company has set its roots in San Diego California, with former EAC Chairman Paul DeGregorio
as its CEO. Michigan Dems have internet primaries already, Hawaii is having some local elections
via the internet, and the Democratic National Committee recommended holding the
2008 Presidential Primary via the Internet.


Special Interests and Neo Cons leave them paperless, and us vulnerable:



Paperless voting continues to spread, with some states unable to fight it off. Then many others have no audits.

Paperless Pennsylvania - will be keeping their paperless computerized voting machines for a long long time - since there is nothing to make officials deal with paper. It is doubtful that PA will have any luck in changing state law, they just purchased loads of the paperless computers. Further, PA's SOS and lawmakers get advice from "experts" like Professor Michael Shamos and Glenn Newkirk, both paperless proponents.

Then there's poor old DRE Tennessee. Tennessee just bought a slew of paperless machines, they (their election officials and county commmissioners) will fight to keep them. They have no law, and none in sight.

No Luck Georgia - Georgia has introduced laws, but every time a bill had a chance of passing, another group came along and shot it down. SO they have no law, but might get some new paperless Diebold machines when these wear out.

Virginia fairs a little better, because they at least set a moratorium on further purchases of DRES. But - they still have many years to go on the ones they JUST BOUGHT. Hart Intercivic will get to truncate candidates names again, and more.
South Carolina has 100% paperless DRES, and no state legislation in sight.

Many other states are locked into paperless voting too, and meanwhile, internet voting is spreading its seeds right here in the USA.

Florida is going to have the toilet paper DRE for disabled voters in many counties. IN Miami Dade, that means at least 750 toilet paper DREs in that county alone. Also, since Florida has early voting, they face some pushback from election officials who will want to use DREs for that. They will argue that they NEED DREs for early voting, in order to accommodate so many different ballot styles in one location.

Maryland - Lamone's Lemons are the rule. Meanwhile, there is an effort to pass early voting in Maryland - that ought to help Linda Lamone keep her beloved Diebold DREs. Further, Maryland has a budget shortfall of about $1 Billion - and if they don't find the funds to purchase optical scanners by 2010, then their law expires, and paperless voting remains.

Secret software in New Hampshire - New Hampshire is running a significant part of its elections on Diebold optical scanners using secret software and programmed by GEMS. The state outlawed straight ticket voting, which increases the burden on the part of the state that still hand counts ballots. New Hampshire probably hand counts more ballots than any other state, but then - this state has a population about the size of Cuyahoga County Ohio, and only 1/3 is using HCPB.


What will happen if we have another election with paperless computers?


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WillYourVoteBCounted Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-20-07 02:40 PM
Response to Reply #7
17. makes you wonder, doesn't it
but the vendor lobby and other special interests are the groups that
have the real lobbying power.

The vendors don't like Holt because they think its unfriendly to
DRES, and DRES are highly profitable for them in sales and in
software licensing fees, as well as maintenance.

They make probably 5-10 times the money just on licensing and maintenance.

(More DREs needed to do job a few optical scan can handle.)
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Melissa G Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-20-07 03:49 AM
Response to Reply #1
11. Not acceptable and we need to have a unified voice in saying so. n/t
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eridani Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-20-07 01:18 AM
Response to Original message
8. Well then, let's push them our way
Keep those calls and letters coming, folks!
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Land Shark Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-20-07 07:36 AM
Response to Reply #8
14. Right, Keep those calls and letters coming, folks! and include NYT nt
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flyarm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-20-07 01:40 AM
Response to Original message
9. we are now fucked!! count on it!! eom
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Land Shark Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-20-07 07:34 AM
Response to Reply #9
13. If We means "We the People" that's an amazing statement yet you don't remark on it
Edited on Fri Jul-20-07 07:34 AM by Land Shark
and, hopelessness is never a very useful message to publish. Yet there it is. Holt or no hope, huh?
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kster Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-20-07 02:21 AM
Response to Original message
10. Never let your guard down
They are Pros at the art of deception, You know, Let them think they are winning... Type shit... We still have not heard nothing outloud and/or IN THE OPEN ON TV from the people that should be MOST CONCERNED about the counting of ballots, THE CANDIDATES.

My Two Cents...
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kpete Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-20-07 06:12 AM
Response to Reply #10
12. Kster
Your "Two Cents" is appreciated. We have learned the hard way that COUNTING the ballots by WE THE PEOPLE and NO ONE ELSE is what we MUST DEMAND!
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FogerRox Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-20-07 08:36 AM
Response to Original message
15. Does that give me more time to advocate improvements to HR 811....
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Land Shark Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-20-07 02:45 PM
Response to Reply #15
18. They may well be proceeding to a vote, when real debate doesn't make NY Times.... nt
Edited on Fri Jul-20-07 02:46 PM by Land Shark
they would just change the implementation dates to 2012 or whatever (ridiculous to think they need that much time, absolutely ridiculous)
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Yellow Horse Donating Member (462 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-20-07 06:10 PM
Response to Original message
19. Well, well, well... what happened to the "no congressman would not support a DRE ban", hmmm?
Oh Brad, perhaps you meant "no congressman would not support buying more DREs", I must have misread you.

So sorry.
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