One more time, Hand Counted Paper Ballots, or HCPB

[kster]

HCPB Implementation Strategy 2007

by Rady Ananda

While machine advocates try to justify electronic voting, even going so far as to add yet another electronic gadget (assuring us this is the magic bullet that will fix all our electronic voting system "glitches"), here's a less expensive, common sense strategy for 2007.

1. Require the Secretary of State to order each county that purchased DREs to prepare to implement a hand-counted paper ballot (HCPB) system by January 1, 2008.

2. Have each set of County Commissioners send a letter to all printers in their county seeking an estimate to print paper ballots, and asking them to submit a written protocol on chain of custody, so that the ballots printed are all accounted for at every moment from production to delivery to the Board of Elections.

3. Choose the printer according to most secure protocol, by reputation for quality and integrity, and then by cost. Each county is limited to using a local printer, and this will boost the local economy.

http://www.opednews.com/articles/opedne_rady_ana_070102_evoting_exit_strateg.htm

[Rock_Garden]

1. Yes, yes, yes!

I wish one of the presidential candidates would take this up as a major cause. Just because Bush will be leaving doesn't mean that most of the crooked cronies aren't still in place.

[Stevepol]

2. Si, Si, Si!! Pronto! n/t

[nicknameless]

3. .

K&R

[Kurovski]

4. Kick

:kick:

[In Truth We Trust]

5. Hand Counted Paper Ballots NOW! Nothing more and Nothing less!

K&R

I am proud of your diligence Kster! Never Give Up!!!

[galloglas]

6. K'n'R. Unless we're too dumb??

I saw another thread today, wherein a poster (questioning HCPB) said that they had never been able to engage in debate with pro-HCPB people about its "feasability".

I think it was probably a crock, so I didn't reply. But it *did* remind me of something else.

I have been asking if the folks against HCPB for an argument as to why it cannot be done. 1) Are Americans too stupid?, or 2) Can't we count that high? And, I have never had a taker.

HCPB Now! Full transparency, citizen oversight/control, and HCPBs counted at the precinct!

ShowMeTheVote!

[kster]

7. We are not dumb anymore, they can't keep us

away from our ballots, they may pretend that they can, but that is not the case, we know that the Politicians/vote count companies are working together to prevent us from counting and or seeing as many of our ballots as they can, hopefully by now the big "we rig elections" clan is getting embarrassed that they had to once again depend on a Judge, to stop us from looking at the machines, as in 2000 they had to depend on a judge to stop us from hand counting our own ballots.

Maybe the Judges will start getting pissed at the "we rig elections" clan, for f*ck*ng up their side of the election scam.

The Judges are going to start telling the these guys

"if I have to put my credibility on the line, by having to make decisions that defy logic and common sense, because you guys messed up the rigging scam, you guys are done" :)

[galloglas]

8. HCPBs scare the wits out of machine heads !!

Thought you might like to see this. Kathy Dopp, righteous activist and machine head, is abhorred by what we HCPB Now! folks think.

She wrote a letter, which was intercut, answered, and returned to her by a very astute guy. You can find it all below.

If the machine heads are this freaked about HCPBers, then someone, somewhere must be doing "focus groups" indicating that the people want a simple fix for Election Fraud, and they want it NOW!

From: "Michael Richardson" <[email protected]>
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: Audits are Hand-Counts - a New Audit Proposal
Date: Fri, 19 Jan 2007 16:13:54 -0500

Kathy said:


>Sigh, If only the HCPB only people cared as much about ensuring that
>only correctly elected people were sworn into office as they care
>about dictating a particular voting system!

That is because we believe that the only system that can ensure honest elections is a secure hand count. We want people to be in charge, not the machines.

>It is WILD that the HCPB only folks don't think that audits of elections are needed, as long as
>THEIR favorite voting system were enacted. It is really crazy.

Your name calling insults will not deter us from seeking honest elections.

>I've been absolutely dismayed that the HCPB folks are so adamantly
>against increasing the amount of hand counts to an amount necessary
>to
>ensure that only correctly elected candidates are in office and are
>AGAINST 100% hand counts when it is an audit mechanism that requires
>the 100% hand counts.

No HCPB advocate I know is against 100% hand counts, that is what we are seeking for all ballots.


>Very sad to have the folks who claim to be FOR election integrity
>attacking the idea that the elections industry be subjected to
>sufficient manual audits to ensure that the will of the people is
>done
>- even though that plan does require 100% hand counts whenever it is
>mathematically needed to ensure election outcomes

100% hand counts are always needed in every election not just those you have cleared on some math formula.

- but the HCPB
>folks
>refuse to even take a few minutes to play around with the
>spreadsheets
>that would enable them to understand or to take the time to study
>any
>proposal but the simple one that they think is the best, without
>taking the time to consider other proposals.

We have considered other proposals, the machine proposals for machines that run on software that can be hacked without detection, and we have concluded we don't want to play with spreadsheets when the simple answer is already at hand. Just count all the ballots. Count them by hand, in full view of the public with filming rights, in the precinct. A secure hand count system is the ONLY way honest elections can be guaranteed.

>Jeez. I wonder if I ought to just give up and leave the country
>since
>the majority of self-proclaimed election integrity activists seem
>not
>to care if we live in a democracy or not judging from their behavior
>where I am subject to immediate constant attacks from the HCPB folks
>every time I slave for hours, weeks and months, giving up my own
>life
>completely ......

Your decision to give up and/or leave the country should not be blamed on those of us that are not interested in a partial audit system of untrustworthy voting machines. The fact that you have voluntarily fried yourself to a crisp with burnout cannot deter those of us that believe the only way for real election integrity is to abandon the machines. Modern software has rendered voting machines obsolete with the ability to hack into the machines always present.

I do appreciate the hard work you have done. A lot of the work is quite impressive. But the fact that you still want to use untrustworthy voting machines and expect an audit scheme to save the day is not my idea of election integrity. I am saddened that you are reduced to name calling and insults against those of us that want the ballots to be counted in the open for all to witness.

[kster]

10. Do you think she will answer one more question?

If the Hand Counted Paper Ballot People where to say, Fine, keep your Machines, Do your 2 or 3% hand count audit, we don't mind, BUT, make all the ballots so that a person can read them, as easy as the computer counting machine, so that if and when concerned citizens (that don't mind taking the extra time) want to put a group together, in an orderly fashion to count any and/or ALL of the ballots in ANY county in ANY state, at the precinct, with NO QUESTIONS ASKED, can do so, and if there is a difference between the Hand Count and the machine count, the Hand Counted Paper Ballot, AUTOMATICALLY becomes the ballot of record (for obvious reasons).

Everyone gets what they want, Machines, Audits, and Hand Counted Paper Ballots. That way it is not, my way or the highway for anyone, Everyone gets what they want.

[Febble]

18. kster, I don't know about

Kathy, but I agree absolutely with what you have just written. That is EXACTLY why I was in support of HR 550, and why am disappointed with the new version, and why I think it needs to be amended.

What federal legislation needs to do, IMO, is to ensure that in EVERY election, EVERY vote is recorded on a MANUALLY COUNTABLE (i.e. legible, probably flat) paper ballot, and that that ballot is the "ballot of record" in the case of any discrepancy between a manual recount and a machine count.

Once you have that in place, your way is clear for 100% hand-counts (although you will still need audits, IMO, and also strict protocols regarding chain of custody of the ballots).

Do we have a breakthrough here? Is the war over? ;)

[hunter]

11. Personally, I'd rather be known as a bonehead rather than a machine head.

I mean, if you are making lists or something...

:P

[kster]

12. OK, hey Bonehead what do you think of this

Question?

If the Hand Counted Paper Ballot People where to say, Fine, keep your Machines, Do your 2 or 3% hand count audit, we don't mind, BUT, make all the ballots so that a person can read them, as easy as the computer counting machine, so that if and when concerned citizens (that don't mind taking the extra time) want to put a group together, in an orderly fashion to count any and/or ALL of the ballots in ANY county in ANY state, at the precinct, with NO QUESTIONS ASKED, can do so, and if there is a difference between the Hand Count and the machine count, the Hand Counted Paper Ballot, AUTOMATICALLY becomes the ballot of record (for obvious reasons).

Everyone gets what they want, Machines, Audits, and Hand Counted Paper Ballots. That way it is not, my way or the highway for anyone, Everyone gets what they want.

[BeFree]

20. Thanks Galloglas

For this info. I had a great level of respect for Dopp until I read this.

She can now kiss my ass!

[galloglas]

9. One more time

then again, and again, until they get it right!!

[kster]

13. Kick.nt..........

[kster]

14. Kick.nt

[New Earth]

15. it's a crime

that no one has given you a heart yet!

until now :hi:

[kster]

So it was you

Thank You! :blush:

[kster]

16. So it was you

Thank You! :blush:

[New Earth]

17. you're welcome

I don't understand why you don't have more :shrug:

[BeFree]

19. Really

Kster is a very deserving fellow; all you gals ought to be heaping the hearts upon his keester!

[L. Coyote]

21. With technology today, BOE can easily print paper ballots

No custodial concerns. The BOE has custody of all ballots at all times in the process. And, only they know how many are printed, what paper, etc.

I can print ballots for a county on my home computer, so any modern office can handle this. If small counties relied on state election officials to print, custody would still always be in the hands of public officials.

Modern printers are capable of imprinting a cryptic verification that identifies the printer used. This might also be deployed in the security process.

[kster]

22. kick.nt