Why didn't the Democrats in Florida challenge the huge irregularities in Attn General race?

[philb]

Sumter County in Florida had undervotes reported of over 15% in 95% of their precincts and over 25% in 31 percent of precincts in early voting; one precinct over 50%
yet for absentee voting on paper the undervote rate was 2.8%
No precinct had under 10% undervotes on election day
6 other counties had undervotes in the Attorney General's Race of similar magnitudes

Who would trust the results on these ES&S touch screens in this race or any race?
Similar result in Congressional District 13 in Sarasota on ES&S touch screens

So why didn't the Florida Dems challenge the obvious major manipulation in the Attorney Generals race
www.flcv.com/Florida6.html

There was even more obvious manipulation in the Florida 2004 races that they also didn't challenge. Why?
www.flcv.com/fraudpat.html
www.flcv.com/fla04EAS.html

Distribution of Undervotes in Attorney General Race
-----------------------------------Cumulative Percent UV
--------Election Day-Early Voting-- greater than x%
over 50%----------------1
over 40%----------------1
over 30%--------1
over 25%--------7 10------- 20.51% 30.77%
over 20%--------21 17------- 74.36% 74.36%
over 15%--------8 6-------- 94.87% 89.74%
over 10%--------2 2
less than 10%---0 2
less than 5%----0 0

----------------39 39
----------------23% 24.60%

Charlotte, Sumter, and Lee Counties. Excessive "undervotes" in the contest for state attorney general. 21%, 22%, and 18% respectively on ES& S touch screen machines.
http://www.votersunite.org/article.asp?id=6839


Broward, Miami-Dade counties and Fort Meyers. Over 100 voters complained that neither the attorney general nor the chief financial officer races appeared on their ballots on the ES&S iVotronic voting machines
http://www.miami.com/mld/miamiherald/news/local/states/florida/counties/broward_county/15965816.htm
http://www.votersunite.org/article.asp?id=6741
http://www.votersunite.org/article.asp?id=6745

Seminole County also had high undervotes in the Attorney General race

[Dr.Phool]

1. The Democratic Party in Florida is completely irrelevent.

We've been telling Karen Thurman about these machines since she took office, and DEC's for years, and they didn't do squat. As far as challenging results, it's every man for himself.

I posted this, this morning.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=102x2677710

In both articles, the Chairman of the Pasco Republican Party, blames the challenges on Karen Thurman. Truth is, that no candidate could get the time of day from her without the DCCC and DLC's prodding.

And the reporter from the St. Pete Times is a right wing hack. She quotes us in the article, but we never returned her phone calls. Just google her name.

[Stevepol]

2. There's absolutely no reason to have any confidence in any election in the US anymore.

As long as the vote is counted in secret without verification, there's not the slightest reason to trust any vote count. Why should there be?

FL is among the worst offenders, second maybe to GA, but there's hardly any place in the country where the voter can have the slightest confidence that his or her vote will be counted fairly.

[philb]

3. Neither state nor national Dem party gave most Fl. Dem Cong. challengers support or money

even though there were a lot of strong candidates and relatively close races,
but hugely underfunded- often outspent 10 to 1 but still coming within a few percent of winning
and that margin questionable because of obvious major irregularities that are known and others likely

The state and national Dem party gave support or money to only 4 Dem races that I'm aware of, with about
15 with no support. Dem party considers a candidates ability to raise money as the most important issue-
irregardless of issues or competance/background. If a candidate isn't rich or doesn't have rich friends, they don't
bother to support them.

Its likely the same with the Repubs except in Florida they have a lot more money, since they control the system in spite of being a minority party.

For example the Repubs in Hillsboro have Repub registrations of about 36% but win most of the elections and control the elections process. In such circumstances, how do the Dems think they could ever win, irregardless of which candidate
the majority prefers? In the current gerymandered system, the Dems have a majority in a few strangely constructed districts, mostly structured to contain large minority poplulations. But the Repubs control the rest, even though in these the results are relatively close, and even there the Repubs are in minority in many.

Should how much money a candidate has to spend be the primary issue in elections?

[philb]

4. Over 230,000 undervotes in Fl. Attorney General race- marjority on ES&S touch screens

enough to swing the election if they were all Dem, anyone wonder if there might have been other problems
(all who reported disappearing votes to EIRS hotline were Dems, how do we know whose votes these were?)
(an audit of the DRE memories would determine the other votes of those with undervotes- majority were likely predominant Dem voters- why wasn't an audit done?- is the race not that important?)

(this emailed to me from Ellen in Broward County)

Summary Undervotes FL 15 Paperless DRE Counties.

ES&S iVotronic & M650 Absentee Scanner

Broward: 35,615
Charlotte: 11,611
Collier: 1162
Lake: 3106
Lee: 27,514
Martin: 1673
Miami Dade: 34,984
Nassau: 572
Pasco: 5839
Sarasota: 18,382
Sumter: 6652

Total: 147,110
______________________________________________________________________

Sequoia AVC Edge & Optech 400C

Hillsborough: 9143
Indian River: 1439
Palm Beach: 9172
Pinellas: 9971

Total: 29,725
______________________________________________________

Total Undervotes in 15 DRE Paperless Counties: 147,110 ES&S iVotronics & M650
29,725 Sequoia AVC Edge & Optech 400c
________
176,835 Undervotes
228,600 + 410 + 637 + more counties. 229,647 and counting.

[philb]

5. High undervotes in some counties in Fl. CFO race- but Dem won so no investigation?

Should major irregularities only be investigated if its clear they were sufficient to swing the election?

[dlaliberte]

6. All irregularities *should* ideally be investigated, eventually

We have limited resources, limited time, and maybe there is an easier way to fix the problems that will be good enough.

The legal process, being what it is, slow and expensive, is not a very effective way of making changes, except in very clear cases which will make a difference. So if democrats won in an election that has high under-votes, and of course we suspect they were lost votes for the democrats, then there is not much point in expending our limited resources on such cases.

The exception would be if a case is clear and obvious what happened, and if we can thus expose the problem and/or the culprits and thus force changes (i.e. get rid of the electronic voting machines, and/or put people in jail), through the judicial system that will have a positive impact for the future.

But if enough democrats win despite the irregularities, as I hope we have, then we can legislate changes. We can't put people in jail that way, but we can get rid of the electronic voting machines.

[nicknameless]

7. .

:kick: & nom.

[flyarm]

8. ever feel like you are beating your head with a hammer???

thats how we feel in fla with the dem party!!

they are worthless!! less than worthless!!

at the state convention people were having meetings about the machines..the couple od state committee people that came into the room where there to heckle ..and to treat the activists like they had a serious disease..

I had one gal i mentored with Andy Stephenson who left there in tears and called me and told me how rude the damn dems at the top were to them!!

I could not be there as i was involved in something else..important...but so many were treated like they had the plague...it was disgusting..

As a dem delegate ..i have had a feeling that the powers that run the party in fla are getting marching orders..from someone..i can't say it is dlc..or who it is..but they are definitely getting marching orders from the national level!!

Because the FDP will not even discuss the matter...

in fact i did get an email from Karen Thurman wanting money for district 13 ..and iwrote back on it for her to scratch my ass...i said..nowwwwwwwww you want help?? now you want to deal with this issue when we were begging anyone in the FDP to listen to us...i was furious!!

no i was more than furious..i was outraged!!

we have been on our own..and the only thing we got from the FDP was a slap in the face..and worse!

look because of jebbie..the Fl dem party has so many ( rethug) infiltrators..its disgusting..

In 2004 in my large county..i was the only one to train at the convention about the voting machines..the only one !

I worked as a poll watcher for 1 general.& 2 primaries and i was one of only 2 at-large poll watchers inmy county..when i came back from convention..our county had put a guy in charge of poll watchers..who had no back ground in it..and was ass kissing the SOE..
now i was a delegate..and i was housing the Kerry Field rep for Pinnellas..Bradenton and Sarasota...and my kitchen table for months had been the Kerry camp hdqtrs...

and yet the guy that was now running the poll watchers..did not send me out the first day of early vote..because he said i was too aggressive!!..now the training this dip shit gave was worthless..and i went to see what he was doing and when i was there there were 6 people who had volunteered..2 were men in their 80's who fell asleep..........

but this guy deemed me too agressive!!

i had to have the kerry camp in dc request me..as did a couple other local candidates..

thats how much bullshit goes on in FL!!
now mind you the Kerry field reps mom was dying in NY ..and he had become like a son to me..and while he was in Ny i was running the huge headquarters!!

and watching who had access to the computers with the voters info..and running volunteers who came from town ( from all over the usa) for gotv..

Iwas opening and closing the office every day..and it was a huge headquarters..we had hundreds of people working daily...

lol...

and with all the rallys Kerry had there and Edwards..i was usually in charge of volunteers..and i was on the phones late at night GETTING THE VOLUNTEERS ..AND CALLING AND giving lists to secret service to get people cleared...

but i was too aggressive ..to be a poll watcher!!..lmaooooooooo

NOW I LIVE IN 2 STATES... and i will tell you Fl is it's own animal!!

and i have lived in 9 states and worked with the dem party in all the states i have lived..and i have never seen anything like Fl...

the Jeb factor has been a major factor!!..and an evil one!!

fly

[philb]

9. It is interesting when Jeb controls the SOE in the biggest Dem county-Broward

and the SOE hires lawyers and does business with law firms with direct ties to Jeb and who were involved in his campaigns

[Danascot]

10. Ya can't spell Florida without the

DUH