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WillYourVoteBCounted Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-15-06 01:46 AM
Original message
Diebold Whistleblower/ Stephen Heller Fundraiser
Stephen Heller is facing 3 felony strikes in California, for
turning over legal documents to Bev Harris, who then turned them
over to the CA SOS.

**Heller may be paying for the truth with his freedom and
his family's home!**

Stephen's legal defense bills are huge. Up to now, Stephen
and his wife have paid his legal bills with their personal
savings and by taking a second mortgage on their house. At
this point, their personal savings are gone and their credit is
almost tapped out. Please consider donating whatever you
are able to afford.

BACKGROUND:

* See Bev Harris burned her source
Wed Mar 22nd 2006, 04:09 PM
"I just caught this news story about Stephen Heller,
the fellow facing felony charges for revealing that Diebold
broke the law in California.
This graf leaps right off the screen: Bev Harris, founder of Black Box Voting,
told investigators that Heller met her in a Ventura County park
in early 2004 and gave her the documents. She turned them over
to the secretary of state and the Oakland Tribune.
Why in God's name did she reveal the source of the documents?
This is a women who styles he..."
http://journals.democraticunderground.com/Kelvin%20Mace...

HELP OUT -

Donate directly to Stephen Heller's Defense fund:
http://www.hellerlegaldefensefund.com/Donate.html

OR

Buy tickets to a fund raiser being held for him

The fabulous and wonderfully talented actor and writer Paul
Stroili, along with Kevin Cochran and Charles Johanson of
the Grove Theater Center, have graciously dedicated 100% of
the ticket sales for his Saturday, June 2 performance of his
one man show Straight Up With a Twist to the Stephen
Heller Legal Defense Fund.

Tickets are on sale now! Just click the button below and you'll
be taken to the website where you can purchase tickets to
the show.

Whether or not you can attend the June 2 show benefiting the
defense fund, don't miss this opportunity to see a
tremendously talented and funny actor performing his one
man show Straight Up With a Twist.
http://www.hellerlegaldefensefund.com/benefit.html

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Steve A Play Donating Member (638 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-15-06 02:27 AM
Response to Original message
1. One quick correction
Bev Harris did NOT burn her source. While what the paper printed was technically correct in that "Bev Harris, founder of Black Box Voting, told investigators that Heller met her in a Ventura County park in early 2004 and gave her the documents.", she in fact never identified who he was to the investigators. She only told them where she got them.

That unfortunate choice of wording used by Hemmy So of the L.A. Times was picked up by the Associated Press and reprinted elsewhere. It's being held up here by some as "PROOF" when in fact it is nothing of the sort. If anyone here has any actual "PROOF" to the contrary, please post it.

Black Box Voting.org does not out our sources despite what some here would like people to believe.

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hwmnbn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-15-06 06:26 AM
Response to Reply #1
2. Something I don't understand ......
... "Bev Harris, founder of Black Box Voting, told investigators that Heller met her in a Ventura County park in early 2004 and gave her the documents."


That sounds like she burned her source.

she in fact never identified who he was to the investigators. She only told them where she got them.


Then how can you say "what the paper printed was technically correct." It doesn't make sense.
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Pachamama Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-16-06 11:57 AM
Response to Reply #2
14. I thought Journalists protect their sources?
Hasn't Bev at times claimed the rights of an investigative journalist? :shrug:

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Kelvin Mace Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-17-06 08:36 AM
Response to Reply #14
42. Many times
and it REALLY pisses of real reporters.
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Kelvin Mace Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-17-06 08:35 AM
Response to Reply #2
41. Because the paper got it right
All anyone would have to do with Bev is mention jail, and she would have sang like Whitney Houston.

Notice Steve a Play works for BBV.

One might speculate that "he" is Bev or one of Bev's inner cirle.
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acmejack Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-15-06 06:53 AM
Response to Reply #1
3. I imagine you will have plenty of opportunity to explain that.
There are quite a few folks here that will find that quite difficult to accept for various reasons. You may wish to don your best set of nomex undergarments in preparation for what is sure to ensue...
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WillYourVoteBCounted Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-15-06 01:10 PM
Response to Reply #1
8. sorry, is on Hellers website, has a retraction been asked for?
I am sorry if the Oakland Tribune got it wrong, I know that newspapers
do that. (for sure!)

If the article is incorrect, has a retraction been requested?


Note, The Stephen Heller Legal Defense Fund website has the Oakland Tribune
article posted via this link:
http://www.hellerlegaldefensefund.com/oakland.html

Here is an excerpt from that article, which is posted on Heller's site:

Harris told investigators that she met Heller in a Ventura County
park and was handed 500 pages of documents. She told this newspaper
that she was asked to "get them to the right place."

***this guy certainly needs donations, so if people can spare $10 or $20,
think of his family....

http://www.hellerlegaldefensefund.com/Donate.html

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JimDandy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-16-06 11:37 PM
Response to Reply #8
35. I sent him $50 the first day they had their site up.
Thanks for keeping this issue out front and also for supporting Bruce Funk.

I'm curious too about that news article. I'll call Mr. Heller tomorrow and ask him about it and see whether he has requested a retraction.
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Kelvin Mace Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-17-06 08:33 AM
Response to Reply #1
40. So...
Black Box Voting.org does not out our sources despite what some here would like people to believe.

You work for BBV?

If the paper "got it wrong" Bev would have threatened to sue them by now, as is her MO.

Thus, the paper got it right.
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Steve A Play Donating Member (638 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-18-06 12:14 AM
Response to Reply #40
73. No, I work
with BBV.org. :)

Kickin' for Stephen and the truth! :kick:
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fooj Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-18-06 03:37 PM
Response to Reply #1
82. You must think that we're all as stupid as...
Oh nevermind.
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WillYourVoteBCounted Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-18-06 10:14 PM
Response to Reply #1
85. question was did Bev ask for retraction
the question wasn't whether Stephen Heller asked for a retraction regarding this article,
but whether Bev Harris asked for a retraction.

Did Bev Harris ask the newspaper for a retraction or a correction?

No one is asking Stephen Heller if he asked for a retraction of what the newspaper attributed
to Bev Harris.
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Steve A Play Donating Member (638 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-18-06 10:56 PM
Response to Reply #85
86. Not only do we NOT out our sources
we don't comment on ongoing criminal investigations!

Stephen's facing charges + Bev was interviewed as a witness = NO COMMENT!

Is that really so hard to understand? If you really cared at all about Stephen's defense, You'd let his attorney do her job and stop this foolishness.

You'll find out exactly who did and said what when this matter has been resolved. :)

Thanks again for your understanding.
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Boredtodeath Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-15-06 10:42 AM
Response to Original message
4. Where are the REST of the documents?
Edited on Sat Apr-15-06 10:43 AM by Boredtodeath
Prosecutors say Heller, of Van Nuys, took more than 500 pages of Diebold-related documents, including memos from the company's lawyers at the Jones Day law firm.
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/n/a/2006/0...

Isn't it Bev Harris who is always complaining about the ACCURATE scientists who hide stuff from the public?

Well, BBV has never published even ONE page of those documents. Only LACityBeat printed a FEW documents.

So, shouldn't we all be asking Bev Harris where the other 475 pages of documents are that she got from Steve Heller?????

But, just imagine, what those other 475 pages might bring to a FEDERAL Qui Tam lawsuit and you have the motivation for why Bev Harris doesn't WANT to publish them.........


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WillYourVoteBCounted Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-15-06 12:55 PM
Response to Reply #4
5. the main thing is folks have forgotten Stephen Heller
Edited on Sat Apr-15-06 12:56 PM by WillYourVoteBCounted
The Blog World and the MSM have forgotten this man!
Seems like we have too.

I wonder what would have happened if he had gotten legal counsel
before he turned over the docs?

Maybe there would be a way to tip off the SOS without getting burned.

Interesting that Diebold didn't sue anyone - but it was easier for
them to file criminal charges.

But, what about Stephen Heller?

He is already losing everything he has, he has a second mortgage,
no job, and it keeps on going.

Now he is having a fund raiser for his legal fund, so he obviously needs help.

It seems obscene that we have forgotten him.

3 felonies is a serious matter, much less just 1!

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Boredtodeath Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-15-06 01:04 PM
Response to Reply #5
6. I took a whistleblower to EFF
and they offered him representation, advice and protection - for free.

EFF has taken on Diebold before and would have been there for Stephen Heller, I feel sure. But Bev Harris didn't give him the opportunity - she took his documents and ran.

Just like the other Diebold whistleblowers she burned - James Dunn and Rob Behler.

In the meantime, I've donated to his defense fund. But he's going to need a lot more than the lousy $10.00 I could afford to send.
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Boredtodeath Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-15-06 01:09 PM
Response to Reply #6
7. EFF representing the AT&T/NSA wiretap whistleblower now
Edited on Sat Apr-15-06 01:12 PM by Boredtodeath
Probably past time to get Stephen Heller hooked up with them.

On March 31 and April 5, 2006, EFF filed papers with the court asking that it order AT&T immediately to stop illegally disclose the contents of its customers' communications to the U.S. government. In support of this motion, EFF filed numerous documents and declarations which evidence both the technology and behavior involved in AT&T's illegal activities. These include a declaration from Mark Klein, a retired AT&T technician, and J. Scott Marcus, a telecomm expert who formerly worked at the Federal Communications Commission. Due to the controversial nature of the evidence and the rules of the court, EFF filed the majority of these papers temporarily "under seal." However, we have asked the court to unseal them for public access as soon as possible. AT&T has a week in which to respond to our motion and explain why these document should not be made available in the public court file.
http://www.eff.org/legal/cases/att /

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troubleinwinter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-15-06 02:06 PM
Response to Reply #4
9. Why am I NOT surprised she has not posted the rest of the docs...
She raised money to file 3,000 FOIA across the country after 2004 election, with the promise to post the docs for study. Over a year ago, she begged donation of a high speed scanner (which she obtained) to scan and post the resultant materials.

To this date, a year and a half after the election, I cannot find an accounting of how many FOIAs were sent, how many were/were not complied with fully or partially.

I can find none of the resulting documents posted.

If anyone can provide a link showing where Bev has fulfilled her promises to those who sent her money, I'd be fascinated to see it.
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-16-06 01:40 AM
Response to Reply #9
10. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-16-06 02:18 AM
Response to Reply #10
11. Deleted sub-thread
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-16-06 11:12 AM
Response to Reply #10
12. Deleted message
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-16-06 11:57 AM
Response to Reply #10
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Kelvin Mace Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-17-06 08:42 AM
Response to Reply #9
44. I notice that Bev went to the trouble of outing your real name
on her site.

Just another day of Bev Harris' ethical behaviour.
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fooj Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-18-06 03:42 PM
Response to Reply #44
83. Ethical behavior, my ass.
Black is white. Cold is hot. Rough is smooth. Lies are truth.

Desperate times call for desperate measures, I guess.

Peace.
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JimDandy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-16-06 11:42 PM
Response to Reply #4
36. I wonder if Heller's pending court case is the reason they aren't
being published. I'll call him tomorrow and ask about that.
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Kelvin Mace Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-17-06 08:41 AM
Response to Reply #4
43. Bingo!
This is why Bev is opposed to 550. It could jeopardize here real payday.
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Boredtodeath Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-17-06 09:13 AM
Response to Reply #43
50. And BURNING activists seems to be a favorite pasttime
when she isn't burning sources.

See the pattern here?

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Kelvin Mace Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-17-06 10:13 AM
Response to Reply #50
51. Yes.
And the time has come to put a stop to it.
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WillYourVoteBCounted Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-16-06 11:42 AM
Response to Original message
13. ever a retraction requested - handing over Heller?
If the article is incorrect, has a retraction been requested?


Note, The Stephen Heller Legal Defense Fund website has the Oakland Tribune
article posted via this link:
http://www.hellerlegaldefensefund.com/oakland.html

Here is an excerpt from that article, which is posted on Heller's site:

Harris told investigators that she met Heller in a Ventura County
park and was handed 500 pages of documents. She told this newspaper
that she was asked to "get them to the right place."

***this guy certainly needs donations, so if people can spare $10 or $20,
think of his family....

http://www.hellerlegaldefensefund.com/Donate.html
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-16-06 11:58 AM
Response to Original message
16. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
salin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-16-06 12:02 PM
Response to Reply #16
17. Appalling
and folks don't get it and instead cheer at this violation of privacy.
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WillYourVoteBCounted Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-16-06 12:34 PM
Response to Reply #17
18. name of DUer still outed on BBV.org
Edited on Sun Apr-16-06 12:40 PM by WillYourVoteBCounted
I see that folks who posted the thread to BBV.org have deleted their
threads, I hope that they manage to convince BBV.org to edit theirs
so that name of DU'er is not published on world wide web.

One only needs to remember what happened to Andy.

Maybe I should check the freep site to make sure nothing over there.
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salin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-16-06 12:41 PM
Response to Reply #18
19. To late for them to have deleted their own posts...
as the one hour to edit time has long elapsed. Thus I doubt there will be any reconsideration over at that other place. *sigh*

Unbelievable bad judgement on the pro bev folks part.
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WillYourVoteBCounted Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-16-06 12:51 PM
Response to Reply #19
20. it was Bev herself
According to the name by the message at BBV.org it was
Bev Harris herself who has posted the name of a DU'er on her website.

So, regardless of how Bev knew the identity of the DU'er, she is the one
who put the name out there.

That is where the blame should go.

The only problem I have with Bev fans is that they make excuses for her behavior
or follow her anyway, inspite of the harm she does.
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salin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-16-06 12:56 PM
Response to Reply #20
22. make excuses - and in this case
aid and abet in the bad behavior by posting it here - rather than cut and pasting and editting out bev's identity disclosure.
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troubleinwinter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-16-06 01:16 PM
Response to Reply #20
23. "...how Bev knew the identity of the DU'er.."
I wrote her an email a couple of weeks ago, with my full name and address, requesting a copy of BBV 990 tax form. Some time later, I mentioned it on DU. It was simple for her to put 2+2 together. It just shows how carefully Bev follows DU (or her devoted and dutiful fans report to her).
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WillYourVoteBCounted Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-16-06 06:57 PM
Response to Reply #23
24. now we have to wait until May to see the 990
if it is already complete, there is no reason not to make it available now,
but I guess we will be on pins and needles in May.

Amazing, the Election Center posted their 2004 tax return quicker
than the bastion of transparency, BBV.org !

I am shocked, shocked I say.
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Steve A Play Donating Member (638 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-16-06 07:22 PM
Response to Reply #23
25. You appear to have signed up at the BBV.org site under your real name
and voluntarily listed your screen name as the same one you use here.

Is that NOT you? If it's such a big deal to you, why would you have done that? :shrug:

If you search through the real names, and their associated screen names, posted on the BBV.org web site, you'll find several DUers who post there on a regular basis and list their DU nic's as their 'screen name'. You'll also find a number of very productive former DUers who have given up on this site because of posts like this.
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salin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-16-06 07:31 PM
Response to Reply #25
26. It is a HUGE deal when it is done without permission
the act, yours included of linking it here, of the name - and community (city and state) identifying information without the approval of a person, in advance, is egregious. Even if the person later gives permission - because when the action was taken, that permission was not given.

So former DUers think that putting personal information up in public - without permission - being not acceptable - all I can say is, good riddance. LONG before bev ever posted here - there were a number of incidents were DUers were harrassed at their homes and places of work due to some freeper or other person getting a hold of such identifying information - and making havoc. Done back then (when bev and her supporters) never posted here - it was unacceptable. It is the behavior that is unacceptable.

Unless one thinks that opening folks up to cyber-stalking is an acceptable means to an end.
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troubleinwinter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-16-06 09:53 PM
Response to Reply #26
30. Ohfergawdsakes.
Now she has edited my city out and relpaced it with my county (without comment). How typical of her! She loves to post inflamatory things then delete them.

I must stay away fom that sty. Gack.
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Wilms Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-16-06 08:00 PM
Response to Reply #25
27. Steve, may I offer you the benefit of the doubt.
The link posted here was in response to a question. Fair enough on it's face.

However, the fact that the linked article contained personal info is extremely disquieting, in itself, and could have been sufficient to give you pause.

It's not clear to me that there was any legitimate reason for bbv to post personal info. Rather, it strikes me as an effort to threaten and silence a critic.

I've appreciated many of your posts, and welcome them. And I hope that feeling remains.

It doesn't make sense for me to ask bbv to use discretion. But I'd like to ask you, as a fellow DUer to be more sensitive in the future.



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Kelvin Mace Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-17-06 08:49 AM
Response to Reply #27
49. Steve a Play
has revealed "himself" as a member of the organization, probably an officer.

Black Box Voting.org does not out our sources despite what some here would like people to believe.
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Steve A Play Donating Member (638 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-17-06 07:06 PM
Response to Reply #49
56. Not an "officer" just a member
and damn proud of it! :)
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troubleinwinter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-16-06 09:20 PM
Response to Reply #25
28. I signed up there today,
AFTER Bev saw fit to post my personal information, my name and city on her site, as a result of a private e-mail formal request to BBV (as permitted by law) for a copy of the 990 tax filing.

She had already violated my privacy, so yes, today, after she posted the private information of a citizen requesting legitimate IRS non-profit 501(c)(3) filings, I did register.

So what is your point?
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Boredtodeath Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-16-06 09:31 PM
Response to Reply #28
29. Standard Bev Harris behavior - burn ANYbody
who dares to get in her way.

And then her little bots come over here to brag about it.

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WillYourVoteBCounted Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-16-06 10:41 PM
Response to Reply #29
32. after she threatened to sue DU, its a darn shame
it is a darn shame that after all she has done, there are any people
claiming to be DUers who support her.

I make darn sure that election officials in my state know that I have
no affiliation with that org whatsoever.

DU tombstoned her for good reason.

Good people are getting hurt so that some headlines can be created.

Who will be the next sucker?

But some folks think that they are magically special and that she
won't turn on them. Do they think that DU was just being stupid in
dumping her?

I am sure that Stephen Heller had no idea he would get charged with 3 felonies,
or that the documents would be attributed to him. Hence the intermediary.
I don't see any links on his website to bbv.org

Had he contacted eff.org, he wouldn't be losing everything he has right now,
including his freedom.

I bet that Bruce Funk (Utah Elections Official) didn't think through the consequences
of dealing with Bev either, and what did it gain him or anyone?
Headlines for a few days, and then -dismissal, and Diebold anyway.
The end of a 20 year career.

Ion Sancho was lucky as heck, or else he used his legal background to do a great
job covering his behind, because he is one of the rare ones that didn't
lose his job or get charged with a felony.

You can't get rid of Diebold unless you write state laws
that include criminal penalties for lying to about software.

No one got burnt in my state in order to get rid of Diebold.

None of my sources got burnt.
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troubleinwinter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-16-06 11:14 PM
Response to Reply #32
33. You are right here:
"I make darn sure that election officials in my state know that I have
no affiliation with that org whatsoever"

When dealing with elections officials who WANT to do the right thing, you have to first get over the "Bev thing" in order to start talking, at least in California. A top elections official is a personal friend, and I just mentioned the name and she started moving back away as if I had lost my mind. After explaining that I was an elections reform activist NOT affiliated with Bev, she explained how upset she was that she works her butt off to keep PAPER BALLOTS and random hand recounts, but that Bev has done so much damage to the movement, it makes my friend's efforts much more difficult among her peers. All of the elections officers get together for conferences, etc., and she says that they have seen Bev in action and think she is a whacko nutcase, and does damage to the cause.

Andy spoke about the fact that not all elections officials are the enemy. We must support those who are genuine in their devotion to real transparent elections. I see part of supporting them as separating ourselves from those who would use the movement for personal gain, or discredit us.

THERE, BEV! Now that you have outted my personal information (for whatever nonsensical reason), ya can ban me from your ridiculous site. What a load of diversion and nonsense I went through today there.
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Boredtodeath Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-17-06 06:16 AM
Response to Reply #32
38. Someone should explain to Ms. Harris
That people who live in glass houses shouldn't throw stones.

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WillYourVoteBCounted Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-16-06 10:29 PM
Response to Reply #25
31. Looks like Bev was making an example of Winter
Winter didn't raise the issue, I did.

The classy thing for Bev to have done is just simply post the docs, minus the sarcasm
and the public outing.

Since BBV.org is a non profit (doesn't mean there aren't gigantic sums of money and salaries) that solicits donations from the public, people want to see what the money is going to.

And, like with The Election Center, people want to see the tax returns.

Also, people should be forwarned about what they think is whistleblowing - it might not
be legally described as whistleblowing, please get a lawyer before you hand over a bunch of
docs to anyone.

Now, Stephen Heller is in deep trouble - does California have the three strike felony law?
3 strikes and you get life?

It isn't ok to just get what you want from people and say to heck with them.

Who benefitted from the documents?

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WillYourVoteBCounted Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-17-06 08:00 AM
Response to Reply #25
39. was retraction requested? or does Oakland Trib article stand?
Has Bev Harris asked for a retraction of the Oakland Tribune article?
If so, then lots of people need to know, as even Stephen Heller
has the article posted on his website.


r/e
I am sorry if the Oakland Tribune got it wrong, I know that newspapers
do that. (for sure!)

If the article is incorrect, has a retraction been requested?


Note, The Stephen Heller Legal Defense Fund website has the Oakland Tribune
article posted via this link:
http://www.hellerlegaldefensefund.com/oakland.html

Here is an excerpt from that article, which is posted on Heller's site:

Harris told investigators that she met Heller in a Ventura County
park and was handed 500 pages of documents. She told this newspaper
that she was asked to "get them to the right place."

***this guy certainly needs donations, so if people can spare $10 or $20,
think of his family....

http://www.hellerlegaldefensefund.com/Donate.html
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JimDandy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-17-06 09:55 PM
Response to Reply #39
68. On the advice of his lawyer, Stephen Heller can't comment.
He can't speak about the alleged documents or your speculations about them. He can't comment about the alleged meeting or your speculations about it. He can't talk about the truthfulness of certain newspaper articles or your interest in a retraction. He is defending his freedom now, because he already defended ours.

On the advice of many of us, please don't comment any further about specific aspects of his case.

Steve is scheduled for a preliminary hearing next week and, although they have appreciated immensely all of the fundraising efforts so far, we heed to make a bigger push to help them with their large legal bills.

Please donate what you can.
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troubleinwinter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-17-06 10:01 PM
Response to Reply #68
70. Your relationship to Stephen Heller in order to speak for him is....
??????????
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JimDandy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-18-06 12:21 AM
Response to Reply #70
74. No relationship... simply his permission to explain on this thread
what his situation is and why he can't comment. Commenting about his case on this forum could jeopardize his case in court -- the forum where it really matters.
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Steve A Play Donating Member (638 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-18-06 01:14 AM
Response to Reply #74
75. Thanks for posting that 'J'
A bit 'OT' but, I almost split my gut laughing when I saw them calling you Jim March on that other thread! :rofl:

There's wrong and then there's WRONG, but DAMN, THAT WAS

WRONG!



I'll bet ol' Jim got a :kick: out of it too! :)
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Kelvin Mace Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-17-06 08:45 AM
Response to Reply #25
48. Ah, the excuses begin
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Kelvin Mace Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-17-06 08:45 AM
Response to Reply #23
47. Bev is determined to
hurt ANYONE who questions her.
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Kelvin Mace Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-17-06 08:43 AM
Response to Reply #19
46. Typical behaviour
on their part.
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troubleinwinter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-16-06 12:56 PM
Response to Reply #18
21. The freeps already know who I am.
The Scamdy idiots already posted my name when I had their garbage site taken down for about a month for Copyright Infringement.
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Kelvin Mace Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-17-06 08:43 AM
Response to Reply #17
45. That the kind of people who believe in Bev Harris
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troubleinwinter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-17-06 09:57 PM
Response to Reply #16
69. SHE LIES.
A day after Bev decided to post my personal information and town (oops... she changed it to county) publicly on the internet, she posted a SHITLOAD of lies and spin and crap and garbage as her final post on the subject. After I had written a post to address her BULLSHIT, and went to post it, SURPRISE!!! ... my account is deleted. So Bev's fucking LIES are the last word. No opportunity for me to call her on them.

It comes down to: whatever Bev wrote, are bullshit lies, and the truth is exactly the opposite.

Hahahahah!!! Who didn't see that one coming???!!! Standard Operating Procedure.

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:
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troubleinwinter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-16-06 11:35 PM
Response to Original message
34. Back to the subject at hand... Stephen Heller's Defense fund...
I gave, won't you PLEASE join me in supporting this patriot?

Here is where to help: http://www.hellerlegaldefensefund.com/Donate.html
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JimDandy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-17-06 12:09 AM
Response to Original message
37. What about taping the June 2 show as a fundraiser also?
I'd never heard of Paul Stroili before I saw this announcement -- probably because I live in Utah. I wonder if he would tape his show, burn it on a CD, sell it to those of us who are out of state and donate the proceeds (minus costs) to Steve Heller. He would get a wider audience for his comedic talents that way, especially if he would also allow us to screen it with friends and charge our friends a fundraising fee to also send to Heller.
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steveheller Donating Member (32 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-17-06 06:09 PM
Response to Reply #37
52. I am Steve Heller
This is Steve Heller. I received a phone call about this discussion thread so I came to read it. I am under felony indictment, so I am not able to comment in any way about my case. Nor will I be responding to other posts on this thread or to anyone who contacts me; this will be my only post.

Regarding Bev Harris - My experience with her has lead me to believe she is a person of integrity. She has never done anything to cause me any harm. Those who insist she has done something to harm me or my legal defense don't know what they are talking about.

Someday, when I am no longer in legal jeopardy and I am free to talk about the case, I will do so, and many of the people who have posted about my case or Bev Harris' role therein will learn they were wrong.

Steve Heller
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kster Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-17-06 06:24 PM
Response to Reply #52
53. Thank you, Mr.Heller
:patriot: :patriot:
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WillYourVoteBCounted Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-17-06 06:57 PM
Response to Reply #52
54. how do we know this is really Stephen Heller?
I could be Stephen Heller.

It was Stephen Heller's website were I saw the article
that says Bev outed Heller.

Anyway, wherever the real Stephen Heller is, we will try to get you donations.
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steveheller Donating Member (32 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-17-06 07:09 PM
Response to Reply #54
57. I know I said I would only post once...
But in order to prove I am who I am, WillYourVoteBCounted should go to the Donate page of my defense fund website. About half way down is a link to send an email to the email address my wife set up for the fund. Only my wife and I have access to that email account. Email me a word or short phrase and I will post that word or short phrase here. That will prove that I am Steve Heller, or at the very least Steve Heller's wife (but I'm not my wife, I'm not nearly cute enough to be her; I'm me, Steve Heller).
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WillYourVoteBCounted Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-17-06 07:26 PM
Response to Reply #57
61. I went to your website and to whois.com
Edited on Mon Apr-17-06 07:28 PM by WillYourVoteBCounted
I just realized, that with the internet, everyone is anonymous,
unless of course someone "outs" you with documents or evidence.

I looked up the domain name on www.whois.com and someone besides
Stephen Heller is the owner of the domain.
That means nothing really, as this person is probably doing a favor for
Stephen.

But it just demonstrates that via the internet, or via email, we don't know who
we are dealing with.

I might use the email address on your website, and it might be Stephen Heller or
Ms. Stephen Heller. Or, it could be anyone with control of the website.
I have no way to verify anything.

I could provide 500 free email addies to my website, or I could give access to
my email addies to a proxy.

There just is no way to tell.

Sorry, it just wouldn't make sense to email some anonymous person on the internet, to
an email that might be theirs or a proxy, and base my decisions on that.

This is the internet, for pete's sakes.

If you really are Stephen Heller, defending Bev wouldn't surprise me.
Many people here remember Andy Stephenson defending Bev.


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Steve A Play Donating Member (638 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-17-06 08:41 PM
Response to Reply #61
62. WOW! How pathetic!
YOU start a thread to supposedly 'help' Mr. Heller and get in some shots at Black Box Voting.org at the same time, and now you attempt to cast doubt on him and the web site that you yourself urged people to go to. :crazy:

It's odd that you didn't think it important to check on who set up the web site before asking people to donate there. It's also odd that the e-mail address michele-xxxxxxx@earthlink.net has nothing to do with the web site, but you throw in a non sequitur about how many accounts you can give out on your web site and crap about 'proxies'. It's obviously a private earthlink account belonging to the Fund Administrator, Michele, his wife!

The Stephen Heller Legal Defense Fund
c/o Michele D. Gregory, Fund Administrator
17216 Saticoy St., Box 234
Van Nuys, CA 91406-2103

The fund itself is a non-interest bearing, FDIC insured
checking account opened on March 7, 2006 at the First
Federal Bank of California, Encino branch. The account was
opened with an initial deposit from Stephen and his wife
Michele. Stephen's name is not on the account and he does
not have access to the money. Michele is the fund
administrator.
The only withdrawals will be in the form of a
check(s) made payable to Stephen's attorneys. All
administrative costs (this website, a P.O. box, and the small
fees paypal charges) will be covered with Stephen and
Michele's personal funds, thereby ensuring that 100% of all
donations will go to Stephen's attorneys. If by chance the
legal situation is resolved and all costs are paid and there are
still donations in the account, those donations will be
returned; credit/debit card donations would be refunded with
a credit to the individual's card via paypal, and check
donations will be returned via check.


Are you now claiming that this might be a 'scam'? I think your agenda is obvious. :eyes:

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Steve A Play Donating Member (638 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-17-06 07:00 PM
Response to Reply #52
55. Thanks Steve!
We at BBV.org will withhold any comment until this matter has been settled.

Thanks again! :hi:
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salin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-17-06 07:13 PM
Response to Reply #52
58. You have been very brave,
and we thank you for that bravery.

I appreciate and will respect your wishes per commenting about bev and her actions with relation to your situation. (I don't think that I have commented on it - but I will not do so in the future.)

I still do not trust her due to antics I have witnessed over the years (including, now deleted, on this thread.) But that is me and has nothing to do with your experience.

Thank you again for what you have done. Know that you are supported and that many will send what can be sent to try to help in some small way.
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I Have A Dream Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-17-06 07:19 PM
Response to Reply #58
59. This is very important. I will definitely send a donation. n/t
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troubleinwinter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-17-06 10:10 PM
Response to Reply #58
71. I must admit
that I have no first-hand knowledge of the situation regarding Mr. Heller and Harris.

I only know Bev Harris to be a liar in regards to matters that I have first-hand, personal knowledge of.
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JimDandy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-17-06 09:03 PM
Response to Reply #52
63. Hi Steve. Thanks for talking to me on the phone earlier.
:hi:

We're going to keep doing what we can to fundraise and help you out. Sorry about the un-pleasantries here. I think the majority of the election integrity community is behind you 100%, though. We appreciate the truly decent and selfless act you did on behalf of all of us. I'll email you those links I spoke about in a few hours -- it's been non-stop work today. Thanks again!!!

JD

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Kelvin Mace Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-17-06 09:06 PM
Response to Reply #63
65. NO question that the
election reform community is behind Heller.

This is quite different from being behind Bev Harris.
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troubleinwinter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-17-06 09:47 PM
Response to Reply #65
67. Tell me about fucking pathetic...
Edited on Mon Apr-17-06 09:53 PM by troubleinwinter
A day after Bev decided to post my personal information and town (oops... she changed it to county) publicly on the internet, she posted a SHITLOAD of lies and spin and crap and garbage as her final post on the subject. After I had written a post to address her BULLSHIT, and went to post it, SURPISE!!! ... My account is deleted. So Bev's fucking LIES are the last word. It comes down to: whatever Bev wrote, are bullshit lies, and the truth is exactly the opposite.

Hahahahah!!! :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

Who didn't see that one coming???!!!

EDIT: apologies... posted in the wrong place.
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Steve A Play Donating Member (638 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-17-06 11:15 PM
Response to Reply #67
72. BBV.org isn't DU
We have a very low threshold for trolls and disruptors on our site. I'll leave it up to everyone else to read through the threads there and decide for themselves whether you should have been banned as a disruptor based on the general tone of your posts vs. any of the other threads posted there.

Our site rules are not DU's site rules and DU's site rules are not ours. Unlike DU, Black Box Voting.org is a legitimately registered 501(c)(3) 'non partisan', 'non profit', organization, and our forums were set up with the specific purpose of helping concerned citizens and other election reform organizations request and get timely information to help them further their ER related goals. You made it quite obvious that your reason for being there was not for the reasons we set up our forums. We don't allow people to come there and waste our time. You deserved to be banned IMHO.

whatever Bev wrote, are bullshit lies, and the truth is exactly the opposite.


Ironic that you would post that statement on this particular thread. :eyes:

I'll bet Steve Heller is laughing his ass off at the absurdity of it all right now. :crazy:



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WillYourVoteBCounted Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-18-06 10:07 AM
Response to Reply #72
78. he's laughing all the way to prison
"I'll bet Steve Heller is laughing his ass off at the absurdity of it all right now."

I doubt Stephen Heller is laughing his ass off at anything considering that he is
facing the prospect of fighting three felony charges.

Too bad he wasn't referred to www.EFF.org for legal advice, he could have then
been a hero without becoming a martyr.

The sad thing is, folks get burned making headlines for Bev or her organization.

They didn't get good legal advice, and they paid with their job(Bruce Funk)
or their life and well being (Stephen Heller - charged with 3 felonies).
Thanks to lives being ruined, what was the end result? Did Diebold get thrown out
of Fl and CA, or is Diebold still there, eating up votes and making a mockery of
our democratic process?

But - you can get Diebold out of your state without someone's life being ruined,
or at least we did it in NC. We didn't have whistleblowers, but EFF did help
us with several legal battles. We did work hard, many many of us, and
we did do it without a pay pal button or a "donate here" button, and without
bbv.org

Maybe we were lucky, but consider this - Diebold manufactures the touchscreens in our
state, and isn't selling them here.


Who cleans up?
Who cleans up the mess that has become of these persons' lives?
The sad thing is - it could have been avoided with good legal advice.

Ion Sancho almost became a victim, but VTUSA launched a major effort to
lobby local and state officials from across the country. Perhaps
Ion's legal background saved him as well. He may be more savvy about
protecting himself.

Bev is banned from DU, but her proxy is allowed to take her place here, casting the
same pall over this forum as she did, maybe not as bad, but bad.

Did Bev Harris get the newspaper to issue a retraction?
Did Bev Harris ask for a retraction?

These two questions remain unanswered. They would be easy to answer.

It is clear that the election forum is dominated by folks who have no
strategy for making things better. Or a will to do so.

And by strategy, I mean doing more than just chanting out demands
or slogans.
It takes hard work to make progress, and if folks want instant
gratification, then they are going to fail.

It is the drive for "instant gratification" that made electronic voting
so popular in the first place.

If someone wants to start a "Bev Free" thread to help Stephen Heller,
please do.

I will silently applaud you.

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Kelvin Mace Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-18-06 08:17 AM
Response to Reply #67
77. Yes, you meant to post in repsonse to Pat's post
You know, the guy who won't post under his real name, just anagrams of his real name.
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Kelvin Mace Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-17-06 09:04 PM
Response to Reply #52
64. OK,
So someone other than Bev gave your name to the cops?
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Steve A Play Donating Member (638 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-17-06 09:08 PM
Response to Reply #64
66. Three words, "Ongoing criminal investigation"
Sorry, it just had to be said! :)
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Kelvin Mace Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-18-06 08:05 AM
Response to Reply #66
76. No one asked you, Pat
You know, Bev has this big thing about people posting anonymously and yet, all her shills constantly post anonymously.

The hypocrisy is staggering.
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Steve A Play Donating Member (638 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-18-06 01:42 PM
Response to Reply #76
79. Uh huh! Yeah, right "Kelvin"
You don't mind if I call you "Kelvin" do you? That is your real name isn't it? :shrug: What is that, Nordic or something? :eyes:

The hypocrisy is staggering.


I'll say! :rofl:





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WillYourVoteBCounted Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-18-06 02:06 PM
Response to Reply #79
80. its all funny to you
so Stephen Heller sacrifices, and it is all a big joke for the
Bev Proxy.

Like I said, someone open another thread for Stephen Heller, and make
it a Bev free one.

How about getting an answer about whether a retraction was requested or granted still.



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Steve A Play Donating Member (638 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-18-06 08:33 PM
Response to Reply #80
84. No, it's not "all" funny
Edited on Tue Apr-18-06 08:39 PM by Steve A Play
its all funny to you ... so Stephen Heller sacrifices, and it is all a big joke for the Bev Proxy.


There are two problems with that statement. The first is that you presume what I think about Stephen Heller's situation and then state it as fact. I note your use of a period at the end of that sentence rather than a question mark.

For the record, I find absolutely nothing "funny" about his situation. I find nothing humorous about the 'swift boat' style attacks launched against anyone who dares to speak out against this administration, or of those who work toward open, honest, and transparent elections. I find it appalling that the few good honest public officials who have made the decision to come forward and speak out, and have been viciously attacked, like Ion Sancho, and in some cases like those of Kevin Shelley and Bruce Funk, who have been hounded out of office.

What I do find "funny", in the ironic sense, is that you and several others here attempt to portray their heroic actions, and the resulting backlash from them, as somehow being the fault of Black Box Voting.org, rather than focusing your anger at the true villains who are attacking them.

Ion Sancho and Bruce Funk both contacted Black Box Voting.org because they knew we were in a good position from both a technical and financial standpoint to help them test their systems. They both were honest and concerned enough about what we had previously made public to seek definitive answers about their system's vulnerabilities on their own. Neither of them had any illusions that there wouldn't be repercussions from their decisions to have their systems tested. It took months of negotiations involving a number of lawyers and around $100,000 dollars just to arrange the 'Hursti hack' alone. This was something that was not rushed into without thought of the potential consequences.

I've seen no other organization, nor any other group, that has been successful at arranging similar testing on any election equipment, done with the understanding up front that the results of the tests would be made public. It took lots of time, hard work, and most importantly, lots of money to make that happen.

From the way the same little group of people here keep focusing on our fund raising to accomplish such testing, and assigning blame to our organization for the repercussions coming from elsewhere, it almost seems that some here are deliberately attempting to block any further testing of this equipment by our organization. The constant repetition of the same lies about what we've accomplished, and our motives for doing so, may work on a few people here, but I think they've vastly underestimated the intellect of the average DUer.

While some people here have surely been successful at keeping some of the more closed minded folks from ever visiting our site, they've actually helped to drive some of the more open minded people to visit our site just to see what the fuss is all about. When people hear someone make false claims alleging that we've 'stolen people's donations and produced NOTHING', or claim that 'no one in the election reform movement will have anything to do with them', and then they visit our site and see all that we have done, and who we've been working with all along, it's not hard for them to tell who's telling the truth and who's lying. The truth is that they've probably driven more people away from this forum with their tactics than they have ours. Worse yet, they've most certainly turned some people off to the whole election reform issue, as most people have neither the time nor patience to speak their mind on the issue, lest they suffer relentless attacks here. Just look at what happened to Land Shark for daring to come to the same conclusions that we did about the HR 550 bill.

That brings me to the second thing wrong with your statement above. I'm not "Bev's proxy". I don't speak for Bev Harris nor do I speak for Black Box Voting.org in any official capacity. I'm just a member of the organization and I speak only for myself. When I use the term "we" when referring to BBV.org, I'm doing so to indicate that I'm speaking as a member of the organization. If I say that "we don't out our sources", I can do so because I know enough about what is really happening behind the scenes to know it's the truth. It's no different than if I were a member of the Boy Scouts who says "we don't allow girls to join".

We are a rather diverse group. Like any other group, we all have our own opinions on a variety of election reform related issues. We don't walk in 'lock step' by any stretch of the imagination. Anyone who has spent any time on our forum knows very well that we all see different paths to reach our ultimate goal. We do stand shoulder to shoulder when it comes to restoring transparency to our elections. We're a 'non partisan' group with a membership that is comprised of individuals from every political party, yet we have learned how to hold civil discussions in regard to our personal opinions as to how to best achieve our common goals.

Like I said, someone open another thread for Stephen Heller, and make
it a Bev free one.


Since you started this thread and brought BBV.org into it, perhaps you should ask that the mods lock this one at your request, and maybe then you can start another one. If you don't want to do it, I'll be more than happy to start one. Stephen Heller absolutely deserves our support for what he's done for all of us. It's the least we can do for him.

How about getting an answer about whether a retraction was requested or granted still.


Per Stephen's request, all I can say at this time is "no comment". Thanks for your understanding. :)

On Edit: Corrected wrong spelling of 'Stephen'. Force of habit!
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Kelvin Mace Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-18-06 03:28 PM
Response to Reply #79
81. Play innocent
You are quite aware that I have pusblished my name here as well as my email address on hundreds of occasions.

David Allen
www.blackboxvoting.com
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Paul Stroili Donating Member (1 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-27-06 11:47 AM
Response to Reply #37
87. From Paul Stroili, response for JimDandy
The show is taped, and your idea is a good one. It will take me a little time to work out the logistics of sales through my site, so in the interim, contact me at Paul@Straight-Up.com and I'll send you a complimentary copy. Please donate to Steve's fund in lieu of payment to me. Please note: The show has a few four letter words, so please preview it before you share it with any younger people.

Many thanks-

Paul Stroili
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BeFree Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-17-06 07:22 PM
Response to Original message
60. Two monks
Edited on Mon Apr-17-06 07:24 PM by BeFree
... were walking down a road.

They came across a river and found a beautiful, elegantly dressed lady standing on the bank crying.

"Please" she said, "would one of you gentlemen carry me across the river?"

The two monks had, of course, been taught that the touch of a woman could lead them to hell.

Against the other's demands, one monk did carry the lady to the other side of the chest deep river. Then the two monks continued down the road alone.

Almost with out stop the one who wouldn't touch the woman complained loud and long about the other's good deed. "You shouldn't have carried her!, You just shouldn't have carried her!"

Finally, the one who did carry her said, "I left her back at the river, but you are still carrying her."

-------------
My contribution to the Bev hour on DU.
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WillYourVoteBCounted Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-27-06 08:25 PM
Response to Original message
88. 4 DU members have been outed by Bev Harris
I have requested that this thread be locked, since
Bev Harris has outed 4 of the DU members posting on it.

She has used her forum to publicize a DU member's name, city and street,
to out 4 DU members, and has also used BradBlog out those same
4 Democratic Underground Members.

Anyone in DU, just know that this could happen to you.



Minimize Harm

Ethical journalists treat sources, subjects and colleagues as human beings deserving of respect.

Journalists should:

Show compassion for those who may be affected adversely by news coverage. Use special sensitivity when dealing with children and inexperienced sources or subjects.
Be sensitive when seeking or using interviews or photographs of those affected by tragedy or grief.
Recognize that gathering and reporting information may cause harm or discomfort. Pursuit of the news is not a license for arrogance.
Recognize that private people have a greater right to control information about themselves than do public officials and others who seek power, influence or attention. Only an overriding public need can justify intrusion into anyones privacy.
Show good taste. Avoid pandering to lurid curiosity.
Be cautious about identifying juvenile suspects or victims of sex crimes.
Be judicious about naming criminal suspects before the formal filing of charges.
Balance a criminal suspects fair trial rights with the publics right to be informed.

http://www.spj.org/ethics_code.asp
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mvd Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-27-06 09:13 PM
Response to Original message
89. Locking
at the thread starter's request.
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