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OK, people, you all have your theories. I have mine.

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Seabiscuit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-11-04 05:24 AM
Original message
OK, people, you all have your theories. I have mine.
Without a doubt, there are numerous reasons why Bush supposedly won this Presidential election, including the extremely high probability of massive voter fraud, a crime, which the neo-cons have perpetrated on this country since they infested the Reagan administration.

I've read all kinds of apologies for Kerry. I've read all kinds of angry posts about Kerry's campaign, and all the mistakes he made, whether I agree or not.

But this is the bottom line. This is where Kerry fucked up.

9/11.

The Bushistas convinced with their constant LIES, over more than a three year period, if we are to believe the voting results propagated in the mainstream media (which I, frankly, do not), the majority of Americans believed, as of November 2, 2004, that:

(1) Saddam Hussein had some connection to 9/11;

(2) Saddam Hussein had some connection to Al Queda, which no one has seriously disputed was responsible for 9/11 (beyond a video I saw on the internet which raises serious questions about whether anyone other than the Bush administration itself was responsible for 9/11);

(3) Saddam Hussein was determined to immenently attack Israel and the United States;

(4) Saddam Hussein would carry out such attacks with massive stockpiles of chemical and biological weapons (which the U.S., during the Reagan administration, through Donald Rumsfeld provided to him), despite all scientific evidence that such weapons, according to the figures they quoted, matched the quantities we supplid him with, could not possibly surive and be usable between the late 1980's when we gave them to Saddam and August, 2002, when the Bushistas began their media campaign about it all;

(5) Saddam Hussein not only possessed such "WMD"'s since the 1980's when we gave them to them, and all such "WMD"'s were still usable, despite all scientific evidence to the contrary, but he was, since the U.N. inspectors left Iraq (not because, as the Bushistas claimed, that they were "kicked out", but because they left out of frustration from lack of cooperation from Hussein) continuously developing such weapons to maintain their stockpiles at exactly the same level as the ones we sold him in the late 1980's, despite the fact that the Bushista administration could never provide any evidence of this beyond rehashing old evidence of what he possessed when we armed him to the gills with that shit during the Iraq-Iran war when Iraq was losing it, and Reagan's neo-cons (Cheney, Wolfowitz and Rumsfeld) wanted to make sure that the Ayatolla Khomeini could not defeat Iraq, and spread more Shiite opposition to America's influence in the Islamic world. Interesting footnote: just before exiting Iraq in 1991, Bush I invited the Shiites to revolt against Saddam, promising American support. When they did, we abandoned them, resulting in the "mass gravesites" the current Bush administration has been citing as evidence of Saddam's "evil" since they began selling their Iraq invasion in the summer of 2002.

(6) Saddam Hussein had a huge stockpile of missiles that could not only hit Israel, but could hit Great Britain and the United States with massive amounts of chemical and biological weapons. This lie was repeated by Tony Blair.

(7) Saddam Hussein had "reconstituted" his "nucular" weapons program, and could strike Breat Britain with nuclear missles in a matter of months, if not weeks, even according to Tony Blair.

ALL OF THE ABOVE WAS CLEARLY, IF ANYONE PAID ANY ATTENTION TO THE ACTUAL CIA DOCUMENTS OFFERED TO THE SENATE INTELLIGENCE COMMITTEE IN OCTOBER, 2002, A PACK OF BLATANT LIES.

Yet, John Kerry, a member of that committee, apparently didn't read the CIA documents, didn't question any of the witnesses about any of the above sufficiently, and not only argued against the Iraq War Resolution on the Senate floor during October, 2002, just before the Congressional elections, he quietly contradicted his public stance by voting in favor of the IWR, which was based entirely on the above 7 outright lies and OBVIOUS falsehoods.

Howard Dean saw them as I saw them from the beginning: they made no sense at all - they deliberately confused what happened in the late 1980's with what happened in 1991 with what happened by 1996 with what was supposedly happening in 2002. None of it would have passed muster in a court of law - such an argument on such flimsy false evidence would have been laughed out of every court of law on this planet.

Yet Kerry bought into it and voted to cede the power of Congress to Declare War under the U.S. Constitution to a known liar and moron, George W. Bush. And you think John Kerry didn't know about the PNAC and their fanatical middle-east imperialistic agenda by then???

Turn the clock forward to the summer of 2004. Ina now infamous interview, John Kerry was asked if, after all the published results of all the investigative governmental committees which proved that all seven of the above reasons for invading Iraq were false, with the benefit of hindsight, would he have changed his vote on the IWR? INCREDIBLY, JK SAID "NO"!!!!

So JK presented to the American voting public the following totally absurd rationale for his position on Iraq, which made him look even loonier than a proven liar, George W. Bush:

"I have consistently maintainted the same position (translation: I am not a flip-flopper; I needed to translate that because Kerry never exactly addressed the term "flip-flopper" during his campaign): I voted to give the President the authority to invade Iraq because I thought that was the right thing to do, in order to persuade the United Nations to send their inspecters back into Iraq. But George Bush rushed to war before the inspectors were able to complete their mission and before assembling a 'true' coalition of our traditional allies (read: NATO)."

What's wrong with this picture?

Aside from the morally, ethically, and legally wrong positions Kerry took regarding the IWR, his argument in his defense that he would not have gone to war without our traditional allies (NATO) is ludicrous and absurd - it was clear, in February and March of 2003 to our NATO allies that not only was the Niger Uranium connection bogus, but so was Colin Powell's argument about Saddam's current capabilities and his so-called "imminent threat" to Israel, Europe, and America, and every daily report from the U.N. inspectors proved to our NATO allies that every place the U.S. claimed that Saddam had stored or hidden WMD's was bogus. Not one site checked out. No WMD's were found by any of the inspectors by the time Bush kicked them out and invaded.

So Kerry was trying to tell American voters that he supported the authority to go war, but only would have gone with our NATO allies, and then changes the subject to criticize how Bush has handled the war?

No wonder so many American voters had such a hard time deciphering any difference between Bush and Kerry on Iraq.

NATO ***NEVER*** would have supported Kerry, if he were President at the time, in an invasion of Iraq, given the bogus intelligence presented the Bush, and that Kerry used to justify his IWR vote, that Kerry ignored when he said he'd vote the same way with hindsight, after the bogus intelligence was proven false numerous times beyond a shadow of a doubt.

So why did Kerry support this war??? Why was it important to him to "win" a war, that if he were honest about it, should never have happened, and if he were honest about it, he could not have convinced NATO himself to go along with, while telling us that he thinks it was the right thing to do at the same time telling us that he wouldn't have invaded without NATO's support even though everyone including him knows NATO would never and could never have supported that illegal invasion because they saw through Bush's bogus intelligence which, apparently, Kerry was unable to????

THIS, FOLKS, IS WHY I REJECTED JOHN KERRY'S CANDIDACY IN MARCH 2003 AND JOINED THE HOWARD DEAN CAMPAIGN.

JOHN KERRY WAS ALWAYS AND STILL IS FULL OF SHIT ON THE SUBJECT OF IRAQ. IT WAS OBVIOUS TO ANY AMERICAN VOTER PAYING ANY ATTENTION WHATSOEVER TO THE CAMPAIGNS AND THE DEBATES.

*THAT'S* WHY HE LOST!!!!!

And that's why we lost. We were stuck with a compromising career politician who was no longer capable of ethically standing up for principle. He fucked us blue and ruined us black and blue.

So I invite all of you from Massachusettes: VOTE KERRY OUT OF THE SENATE AS SOON AS POSSIBLE. HE IS PART OF THE DLC ENEMY WITHIN THE DEMOCRATIC PARTY. HE AND THE DLC HAVE PROVEN FOR THE PAST FOUR YEARS THEY ARE INCAPABLE OF TELLING US THE TRUTH, TELLING THE AMERICANS THE TRUTH, AND WINNING A SIMPLE ELECTION AGAINST THE MOST STUPID, IGNORANT, MISGUIDED, CORRUPT, SCANDALOUS, FUCKED-UP PRESIDENT THIS COUNTRY HAS EVER SEEN!!!
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Carolab Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-11-04 05:56 AM
Response to Original message
1. Now, THAT's the kind of liberal I can relate to
Edited on Thu Nov-11-04 05:59 AM by Carolab
Thanks for seeing things so very clearly.

You are, beyond a shadow of any doubt, absolutely correct on all counts.

We have been fucked over. And it's HIGH time we fucked them all back.
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Seabiscuit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-11-04 07:05 AM
Response to Reply #1
2. Thank you. FINALLY someone sees it my way.
Sorry for the long rant.

I was feeling very emotionally spent tonight.

As a result I didn't bother to edit that post and it was full of misspellings and other grammatical errors.

But I am still trying to come to grips with four years of pure hell.

Culminating in a stunning defeat on Nov. 2.

Culminating in a stunning betrayal from Kerry when he quit on Nov. 3.

I am sick to my stomach and just want to :puke:

The Bush cartel which stole our country in 2000 is far and away the most evil, secretive, dishonest, abusive, arrogant criminal group of bastards I have ever witnessed in the entire planet since 1945 when I was born. That covers a lot of abusive shit I had to live through - the "Japs" talk of the late 40's to early 50's, the "Jews" shit through the 50's, the "nigger" shit through the 40's, 50's and 60's, the civil rights battles, the Vietnam nightmare, the Watergate nightmare, the Reagan nightmare, the Bush I nightmare, the Monica nightmare, and now THIS??? Alienating the entire planet in their greedy bloodbath in Iraq and their greedy rape of American institutions and traditions?

FOUR MORE YEARS OF THIS INCRECRIBLY VILE, EVIL CRAPOLA?

And Kerry and his DLC backers shoveled it down our throats with their doublespeak B.S.

I just can't help but :puke: :puke: :puke: :puke: :puke: :puke: :puke: :puke: :puke: :puke: :puke: :puke: :puke: :puke: :puke: :puke: :puke: :puke: :puke:

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BeFree Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-11-04 07:43 AM
Response to Reply #2
4. The simple truth
If Kerry had said he was against any war in Iraq, he, nor any other Dem expressing the same idea, would never stand a chance in the election.

That's politics. We may not like it, I sure don't, but that's the way it goes.

Don't get me wrong, the war is amoral. But given the lynch-mob mentality infecting this country, it doesn't surprise me one bit that support for this damned war is well over 50%.
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SheilaT Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-11-04 07:32 AM
Response to Original message
3. I am very, very sorry
that I didn't write in Howard Dean's name on Nov 2. I live in Kansas, so my vote for Kerry didn't matter anyway.

Aside from the fact that you are absolutely correct in your analysis of Kerry's campaign, I've been saying for over a year now that in a fair, free, and honest election, any Democrat would have won.

I do not believe we had a fair, free, and honest election.

John Kerry was an ineffectual Senator for twenty years, so it's no surprise he was an ineffectual campaigner. But the country does not really deserve four more years of the complete evil that controls this country.
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Maddy McCall Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-11-04 07:43 AM
Response to Reply #3
6. Write in votes aren't counted.
Check your state laws.
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SheilaT Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-11-04 02:10 PM
Response to Reply #6
8. Here in Kansas my write in vote
would have been counted, even though it would not have mattered. But then, my vote for Kerry didn't matter either.

I'm angry about a lot of things connected to this election, not the least of which is that the Kerry campaign drew people across the state line from Kansas to Missouri to help out Kerry, and there was not one iota of reciprocity for the many Democratic candidates on the Kansas side of the line who could have used some help.

For that matter, our Democratic Congressman, Dennis Moore, who won re-election in an extremely Republican district (it had been re-configured in the hopes of getting him out of office) had no coattails whatsoever, and did nothing to help local Democratic candidates. He also sucked money and volunteers from other races that needed them more.

I'm angry that Kerry didn't try to appeal to his base, but instead tried to appeal to Bush's right wing base. I'm angry that half of the voters in this country, more or less (depending on who fair and honest the election actually was) voted for the worst president we've ever had.
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rainy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-11-04 07:43 AM
Response to Original message
5. yes! Bush energizes his base of bigots but most Democrats
are afraid to energize their base of "anti-illegal wars" people. People who want health care for all, people who want to stop the corporatization of the country. People who want to reform elections etc...
What are the Dem. leaders afraid of with its base?
I know, they know the corporate media will tear up anyone calling for liberal agendas. The republicans will slaughter any dem. candidate who stands up for the huge liberal base of the dem. party. So how do we and our leaders get the message out? Kucenich tried but he was joked and dismissed. It seams the bigots can rant but liberals cannot. Better in America to be a bigot then a liberal. Your voice will be heard. Kerry knew he had no chance if he stood up for us and his base. How, now does a Dem. win? We cannot win until we have a real public media that we do not have to pay for as we own the air-waves. We should get fees from the conglomerates to pay for our public broadcasting. It is the least we could ask for since they make so much money using our air-waves and paying us nothing.
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mutius Donating Member (118 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-11-04 08:23 AM
Response to Reply #5
7. I believe Kerry was between a rock and a hard place.
After 9/11 the country came together because we were attacked. Bush the idiot was able to convince the American people that anyone in disagreement with his war policies, were Anti-American. The democrats even knowing the true, voted for the war because they were afraid of being unpopular. Anyone who said they were against the war was anti-American and didn't support our troops. Which by the way is still going on. We know certain celebrities suffered consequences because they spoke out against the war. Who ever came up with this strategy and i know it wasn't the moron had the Democrats over a barrel. remember Kerry's statement when he thought he was off camera said, "this is the most crooked administration that ever came down the pike." he never retracted his statement.
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Straight Shooter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-11-04 02:40 PM
Response to Original message
9. You used a lot of words to say you don't like or trust John Kerry.
And I was one of the first to support Howard Dean's campaign and stayed with it until he gracefully exited. He didn't take his toys and go home. The ultimate goal is too important.

This sort of vitriolic rant against Kerry doesn't get us anywhere. It is nonproductive and, frankly, unfair to the man to assume we know what he is thinking. It's all about perception, anyway.
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