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Celebrating our "moral victory" in OH-2: this party pooper's response

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Fly by night Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-06-05 07:09 PM
Original message
Celebrating our "moral victory" in OH-2: this party pooper's response
Maybe I should stop visiting the "Greatest" forum for a few days. Or maybe I need to get out of the heat and humidity of middle Tennessee for a while and find my way to the mountains of New Mexico where the rest of my heart lives, to be 9,000 feet above the sea's level again; close by Placita, Penasco, Vadito and Rodarte; within site of Jicarita Peak (Basket Mountain); near the Santa Fe National Forest, where I can let my feet dangle in the Rio Pueblo river or my less rabidly political friends there can soak my head.

But before I left the computer today, I ran across another thread which does deserve to be on the "Greatest" page because it celebrates the decidedly different approach that Paul Hackett took to his OH-2 race. Here's the link:

However, after enjoying DemoDonkey's live blogging from the 100,000+ voting rights rally in Hot-lanta today, I am just not in the mood for "moral victories". So here's my response to that "Greatest" thread. Read, enjoy (or not) and comment yourselves.

Now to go set the "Have-A-Heart" trap in the garden for the sweet corn stealing critters who seem to have paid my two dogs off or scared them into submission. Maybe if they were "yellow dogs", they'd be treating those corn thieves like unwelcome elephants and send them pack(ederm)ing. Peace out.

Can we -- for once -- count the votes somewhere in OH and not celebrate...

... another "moral victory"? Politics ain't beanbag and it also ain't horse-shoes. Coming close might feel good to political parties (like ours) that are becoming accustomed to losing everywhere. But it feels like a cluster-fuck to me.

Don't get me wrong. I admire Hackett and agree totally that his aggressive campaigning is a long-needed breath of fresh air for our Party that is becoming too accustomed to playing "nicey-nice" with pederasts and horse thieves. But folks, Ohio-2 voters ALL voted on paper ballots (either punch-cards or optical scan ballots) and there were some last-minute shenanigans in Clermont (a-f'in'-gain) involving computer "glitches", delayed vote counts, humid ballots and contradictory stories on election night and the day after about what happened -- ALL OF WHICH DESERVE TO BE INVESTIGATED. For once, just for once, I would like to see a brave, articulate and serious Democratic candidate show some staying power, pursuing every nook and cranny until the fat lady doesn't just sing but until she passes out from multiple orgasms, with her eyes rolled back in her head. Come on, Paul, let's make our overweight and neglected Lady Liberty REALLY happy for once.

As I understand it, any candidate can request a hand recount of ballots in any Ohio race if they are willing to pay $10/precinct for the privilege. I'm poor as a church mouse right now, but I'll sure as hell find $10 somewhere to contribute AND I will drive to Clermont county (about five hours north of here) to participate in a recount. If you're waiting on me, you're backing up.

Why are our most promising candidates so damned anxious to get out of Dodge the morning after a questionable vote-count? What is it about the phrase "if we NEVER quit fighting, we cannot lose" that our leaders don't understand these days?

Today, in the heat and humidity of Atlanta, speaker after speaker at the voting rights rally there (many of them Congresspeople) stood up in front of 100,000+ marchers and said, "THE 2004 ELECTION WAS STOLEN." Goddamn it, if we really believe that, when on earth are we going to start acting like it? Once a thief, always a thief -- until we start chopping off hands, locking election thieves up or giving them a taste of "real" religion, not the kind that their money-changing brethren dole out these days to the sheeple in their sway.

Come on, Paul, there's already enough circumstantial evidence to warrant a recount in at least some OH-2 precincts. I can't imagine you're afraid of anything, so please start acting like it. You have my respect for what you tried to accomplish -- but you will have my undying admiration and life-long support if you will be one of the first Democrats to start walking the talk about election fraud. We are fighting for the future of our country with torturers, traitors, liars and election thieves. There are no rules in a knife fight ... but you seem to be the sort of candidate who would be smart enough to show up to a knife fight with a gun (metaphorically speaking, of course). And in Ohio, in 2005, with Katherine Blackwell and Daffy Taft at the helm, demanding a public recount is coming well-armed into that lawless border town called the "Buckeye State". It's not like we weren't forewarned.

Contest Clermont County -- count the ballots. The elephant piss that made them "too humid" to count on Election Night should have dried by now.
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Maraya1969 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-06-05 07:23 PM
Response to Original message
1. I wholeheartedly agree - until we get proof of VALID elections
Edited on Sat Aug-06-05 07:26 PM by Maraya1969
I don't think any of them should be considered a "win" or "loss". We have enough evidence from the last 5 years to compel an investigation into ANY elections that is "close".

And it doesn't matter a damn what the Democrats say or do if the elections are fixed. This should be priority #1. I'll be happy to pay for some county recounts, $10 is a pittance compared to Republican lead poverty.

EDIT for grammar
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wli Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-06-05 08:04 PM
Response to Reply #1
2. it's so much worse than that
If any of these criminals were subject to any law whatsoever an investigation would be mandatory.
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Spock_is_Skeptical Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-06-05 08:37 PM
Response to Original message
3. I agree - a recount is warranted!
I say count the ballots. Nominated!
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sunnystarr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-06-05 08:37 PM
Response to Original message
4. You so eloquently expressed my frustration over that election ...
A recount is definitely in order. I'm so outraged over the curl-up-and-die actions of Dem candidates. I really long for Gore's spirit of fighting for what you know you won.
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roseBudd Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-06-05 09:14 PM
Response to Original message
5. I think it is because candidates most of whom are also lawyers are...
Edited on Sat Aug-06-05 09:16 PM by rosebud57
computer illiterate. Unfortunately the focus on DREs and Diebold have shifted the focus and allowed the assumption that people don't or won't cheat when there is a punchcard or optiscan ballot to bust them with. That's like saying no one will rob a bank because banks have cameras. Punchcards and optiscans are still tabulated by propriatary computer programs that can pass preelection testing but be triggered to count fraudulently. And the computer illiterate BoE officials would never know it.

I am hand delivering to Paul Hackett's law office anything any DUer wants me to bring him. I brought the first packet on Friday and his receptionist was really nice.

PM me with your letters and I'll copy and paste into Word and print.

IMHO we also really need a private detective to investigate this.
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Fly by night Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-06-05 10:43 PM
Response to Original message
6. Weirdness after posting this thread: any computer geeks who can explain?
A few minutes after this thread made it to the "Greatest" page tonight, I looked down at the bottom bar on my computer screen and noticed a TON of activity. Every few seconds, I would get a different internet address, with the message that data was being transferred FROM that site to my computer. The funny thing was that I was not trying to access any of these sites and nothing different was appearing on my screen.

I wouldn't have thought much about it but one of the web-sites was an address for the Ohio Secretary of State's office. That one GOT MY ATTENTION. I then started writing down the sites as quickly as I could, but they were coming in hot and heavy. I was able to get four of the addresses written down before I decided that whatever was happening was probably not good. So I disconnected from the 'net (I have dial-up), but not before noticing that my computer had taken on quite a bit of "content".

Since I am not very computer literate, I am going to PM a few more computer-savvy folks to see how/if I can determine just what was going on and whether my computer was indeed receiving stuff from sites I had not contacted and had no desire to connect with. But if any of you have any ideas, please let me know. I run on Windows XP and use Netscape 7.2 as my browser. I also have the latest version of Norton Internet Security.

As weird (and probably harmless) as that little experience was, nothing would please me more than to be causing someone in Katherine Blackwell's office some conniption fits on a Saturday night. Certainly it's not news to them that 40% of Americans now believe that they helped high-jack this country from legitimate rule by the consent of the governed and that there are lots of folks out here like me who want us to empty Gitmo of innocent Muslims to make room for these stinking traitors. Paranoia is not my usual mind-set but seeing the Ohio SOS web-site address flashing rapidly on my computer screen gave me a little chill (or maybe it was a thrill).

Fuck you, Katherine Blackwell. Anybody who would be complicit in the theft of our democracy deserves everything that he has coming to him. I would suggest you start practicing the old "duck and cover" maneuver, if only to kiss your ass goodbye one last time.

Sure hope you like Cuban food and look good in an orange one-piece suit.
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Fly by night Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-07-05 08:32 PM
Response to Reply #6
18. Turns out there was a simple explanation for this. Thanks rosebud57.
This decidedly non-geek farmer appreciates your explaining what was going on. (It had to do with the sources of information embedded within the DU thread I was on being shown in the status bar as my slow computer was uploading the thread.) Thanks again, rosebud57, for pointing me in the right direction.

At least I got to fantasize a little while about keeping someone awake in Katherine Blackwell's office on a Saturday night. But it's better to know that rust (and this angry small "d" democrat) never sleeps than that those election thieves are burning the dark-30 pm oil.
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Fovea Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-06-05 10:58 PM
Response to Original message
7. I concurr
there is no future in trying to be civil in a civil war.
And that is what Jeb, Harris, and the Rovester started in 2000.

We can finish it, because they are venal AND stupid, but we have to start fighting like it's a back alley knife fight.

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Fly by night Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-07-05 08:39 AM
Response to Reply #7
8. Thanks. One kick for Sunday morning
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mopinko Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-07-05 11:27 AM
Response to Original message
9. put up the bat
put up the bat, put up the bat.
one of the things about coup 2004 that pissed me off the most is that i presume that the citizens of this country have never dipped into their pockets to recount votes the way we all did to recount ohio. that was a story in and of itself. nobody msm reporter ever wrote it, nobody ever read it in their newspaper, few, besides us tinfoil hat loonies, ever heard it.
we NEED to count those votes. somebody, please, put up the bat.
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Fly by night Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-07-05 11:56 AM
Response to Reply #9
10. We do need to count those OH-2 votes. But what does "put up the bat" mean?
I was thinking more like "pass the hat" or "put up or shut up (re: celebrating "moral" victories)" or "rally the troops again".

You're right. Folks not only put up the money to recount Ohio in 2004 (Greens, Libertarians, and lots of Democrats -- both large and small "d") but many hundreds -- if not thousands -- mobilized in Ohio or descended on Ohio from around the country to do the actual work of the recount. For as phony as the 2004 Ohio recount was, it is nice to know that we have those hundreds (or thousands) of people who can serve as witnesses to the lawlessness that is Ohio these days, when and if we ever get Blackwell and his ilk into a real court of law.

But once again, I expect that many people would contribute again to a Clermont recount and to recounts of other suspicious OH-2 precincts, and would show up to help. Besides, I expect the Clermont election commission headquarters is air-conditioned so humidity would not be a problem. And maybe we can keep elephants with leaky bladders away from the process this time.
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mopinko Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-07-05 12:05 PM
Response to Reply #10
11. put up the bat means
pass the hat, just the new, digital age version. thank you dr dean. or i guess i should say, thank you joe trippi. for one thing, anyway.
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MelissaB Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-07-05 12:06 PM
Response to Reply #10
12. I'd be in for $$.
Has anybody started this?
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Fly by night Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-07-05 12:30 PM
Response to Reply #12
13. Not that I'm aware of. But I will PM the DUer in touch with Hackett
If we get an affirmative, I will post a thread.
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roseBudd Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-07-05 01:39 PM
Response to Reply #13
14. Hackett's receptionist told me Paul was in VA with the marines...
and when he gets back he and his family are probably going on vacation. She put the packet of letters supporting info on his desk, but I'm not sure when he will see it if he doesn't swing by the office before vacation.

In the meantime please contact Howard Wilkinson of the Cincinnati Enquirer with data and your suspicions.
Especially by phone. Last Dec. I spoke to Wilkinson about Greene County recount volunteers finding the BoE open and he already knew about it even though it wasn't his beat. Well he's back on that beat since he covered the Hackett race and the Clermont County humidity story. A reporter may find it easier to get BoE data since it's well known that newspapers sue for info, they are being denied by public officials. Not to mention the contacts Wilkinson would have developed over decades of covering local politics.

Besides the Enquirer has got to be worried about the Toledo Blase sweeping the journalism awards this year.
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Fly by night Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-07-05 01:54 PM
Response to Reply #14
15. Thanks, Rosebud. Do you sense that Hackett cares about election fraud?
After all, there's little need to beat a dead donkey. But if you have any feeling that Hackett is receptive to our concerns, I sure hope you will give him hard-copy of the several threads on 2004 ERD (TIA and others) that have discussed some of the oddities evident in OH-2.

Also, since you seem to be in communication with Howard Wilkinson, you might offer him the assistance of DUers in doing some of the leg work necessary to review the more suspicious precincts in that district. Again, a number of DUers (including myself) would probably be willing to help. Keep us posted, either here or through a PM. Thanks.

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roseBudd Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-07-05 03:20 PM
Response to Reply #15
16. I give Hackett the benefit of the doubt because I came to realize Kerry's
Warren County lawyer was a complete computer illiterate who thought he by himself the only observer admitted and having to split his time between two rooms on Nov. 2 was able to tell whether there was tabulation fraud. They gave us lawyers to protect the vote and we needed programmers :(

I'm not sure any lawyers know how computer programs work

if such and such is true
then such and such will happen

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Time for change Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-07-05 04:16 PM
Response to Original message
17. I agree, and I'll help out too
We should push for recounts after any suspicious votes, especially in Ohio.
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Fly by night Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-08-05 09:46 AM
Response to Original message
19. Even Republicans are questioning the vote count in Clermont ...
Edited on Mon Aug-08-05 09:48 AM by Fly by night
... according to a recent thread on . Here are some excerpts:
Republican Blogger Suggest 'Fraud' a 'Possibility' in Clermont County... Even Rightwingers are Beginning to Ask Real Questions...

Apparently there are some brave Republicans out there who are willing to display some intellectual honesty in regards to Election Fraud. It's only the root of democracy at stake after all. The following is from the Rightwing "Red State" blog and surprisingly asks some real questions and expresses an honest concern about what the hell may have happened in Clermont County during last Tuesday's OH-2 U.S. House Special Election race between Democrat Paul Hackett and Republican Jean Schmidt ...

"While you may think Democrats cry wolf on election fraud at the drop of the hat, and I agree, suspicion of the results from Clermont County in Ohio is reasonable based on what's happened there in the last year. What am I talking about? Within the last year, in this one county, there has been; an FBI investigation, a "second draft" of voting results, and yesterday's "machine breakdown". I am one of those "kossacks" who thinks that the election irregularities in Clermont county are not a fluke. Before you write me off as a lunatic, please just look at the following situation;

"1. The FBI investigated allegations of fraud ... in this county in 2004.
2. There were also irregularities in this county in the GOP primary this year, favoring Schmidt....
3. The "ballot sticking" explanation may indeed be a true one; however, it does sound fishy, you have to admit. You have to ask, why was this the only county with this problem, and why did the problem only materialize halfway through the vote counting process?
4. Why did the live-updating vote counting website go down immediately before the new results were posted?

"... I think it's obvious there's a possibility that a county in which there are 3 irregularities in the space of a year is doing something wrong."

Right out of a Republican's mouth. Go to and read the whole story. Then write Hackett and tell him not to mothball his huevoes just yet.
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mirrera Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-08-05 04:43 PM
Response to Original message
20. If we never count the paper what good is it?
My town is giving up ballots hand counted for a scanner, thinking we will just count them by hand if there are problems, PROBLEMS? We have to fight for every hand counted ballot. I wish Hackett would pay for a HAND recount. I think any glitches at all should cause an automatic hand count.

See my other thread at:

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