Democratic Underground Latest Greatest Lobby Journals Search Options Help Login
Google

Which of these facts convinced you that the election was stolen?

Printer-friendly format Printer-friendly format
Printer-friendly format Email this thread to a friend
Printer-friendly format Bookmark this thread
This topic is archived.
Home » Discuss » Topic Forums » Election Reform Donate to DU
 
TruthIsAll Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-27-05 08:57 PM
Original message
Poll question: Which of these facts convinced you that the election was stolen?
Edited on Fri May-27-05 09:06 PM by TruthIsAll
If it's none of these, add your own favorite fraud-busting factoid.

Sorry, polls are turned off at Level 3.

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
ohioliberal Donating Member (458 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-27-05 08:59 PM
Response to Original message
1. How about everything above.....n/t
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Career Prole Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-27-05 09:01 PM
Response to Original message
2. I'm recommending. If we had a front-page poll like CNN does
this would be the one I'd like to see there! :thumbsup:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Selteri Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-27-05 09:02 PM
Response to Original message
3. Wher eis the all the above option? Or does it keep moving?
Edited on Fri May-27-05 09:02 PM by Selteri
nice idea - seconded
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
unblock Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-27-05 09:03 PM
Response to Original message
4. apparently las vegas odds on election eve had kerry the 2 to 1 favorite
no way las vegas would get things that wrong.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
KaliTracy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-27-05 09:04 PM
Response to Original message
5. much more than One.... recommended n/t
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
AlwaysDemocrat Donating Member (326 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-27-05 09:10 PM
Response to Original message
6. All of the above (n/t)
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
johnnypneumatic Donating Member (461 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-27-05 09:11 PM
Response to Original message
7. how about that the last 600 votes
Edited on Fri May-27-05 09:12 PM by johnnypneumatic
changed everything so drastically. Were the last 600 or so all for Bush? Where did they come from? not the west coast!
I also was wondering if you can tell does the data show how many percent republicans voted against Bush, and if this doesn't match the alleged official count.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
ohioliberal Donating Member (458 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-27-05 09:15 PM
Response to Reply #7
9. Welcome to DU johnnypneumatic!!!
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
vince3 Donating Member (224 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-27-05 09:14 PM
Response to Original message
8. Something else, that, when taken with the other evidence...
tells us the election was rigged is the Vegas odds. Lampley told us a couple weeks ago that Kerry had moved from even money to a 2/1 favorite at the Vegas casinos and the Caribbean betting sites on election day.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
DemBones DemBones Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-27-05 09:28 PM
Response to Reply #8
14. Got a link on that Vegas story? I haven't heard that before
and it's verrry interesting.

So, let's get this straight. . . the pre-election polls were "wrong," the exit polls were "wrong," and Vegas was "wrong."

Fortunate Son rides again.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
vince3 Donating Member (224 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-27-05 11:35 PM
Response to Reply #14
22. Lampley's blog piece about Vegas odds:
Edited on Fri May-27-05 11:41 PM by vince3
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
DemBones DemBones Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-28-05 12:00 AM
Response to Reply #22
24. Thanks, that's a good piece. I suppose it

actually can be checked, i.e., that Vegas doesn't disappear betting records down the memory hole?

I can't decided whether I agree with him when he says, "the collective media silence which has followed is the greatest fourth-estate failure ever on our soil." The enabling they've done ever since the 2000 coup is the greatest failure. Important news stories disappear while we hear about Laci Peterson, Britney Spears, killer sharks, etc., etc. And I mean that in both senses -- that the important stories are ignored altogether and also that some literally disappear off websites.
:mad:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
vince3 Donating Member (224 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-28-05 02:58 AM
Response to Reply #24
25. I agree.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
bunny planet Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-27-05 09:20 PM
Response to Original message
10. All of the above.
Also believe the story about Karen Hughes having told His Fraudulency that he lost. Plausible deniability you know.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
SharonRB Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-27-05 09:26 PM
Response to Reply #10
12. LOL
Edited on Fri May-27-05 09:27 PM by SharonRB
That's so funny, Bunny -- I didn't see your post before I posted mine and I was answering your PM while you were posting yours. We must be meant to meet!

On edit: Actually, I didn't see any of these responses before I posted mine. A lot of us are thinking alike tonight!
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
bunny planet Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-27-05 09:27 PM
Response to Reply #12
13. Absolutely.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
SharonRB Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-27-05 09:25 PM
Response to Original message
11. How about all of the above?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Roland99 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-27-05 09:33 PM
Response to Original message
15. Touchscreens are VERY easy to modify and "fix"
I used to work for a consulting company that had developed touchscreen quality control software for manufacturing plants (automotive).

The touchscreens (we were using Microtouch) come with software to calibrate the "pressure points". Depending on how one was looking at the monitor (either from above, below, to the side, or straight-on), the position on the screen that a person would touch could vary noticeably.

If a short person calibrated the screen, a taller person's touch would possibly select a different option.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Nothing Without Hope Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-27-05 09:35 PM
Response to Original message
16. All of the above - It started with the abrupt about-face in the results
and then moved from there through the ever-unfolding series of additional indpendent indications.

If you make a version with links for each choice, we could send it all over and get more people to take another look.

Recommended and kicked. Thanks, TIA!
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Botany Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-27-05 09:39 PM
Response to Original message
17. I live in Columbus, Ohio .....
and saw it with my eyes and heard it with my ears.

http://www.thousandreasons.org/get_article.php?article_...

Greene County, OH 3 or 4 precincts 3,800 hundred registered
voters @ 2 all black schools Wilberforce & Central State ......
50 votes recorded......
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
mod mom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-05-05 08:09 PM
Response to Reply #17
37. Me too, Botany. Worked on the near east side. When I saw 5 hour waits in
Linden and 15 min waits in my precinct (went for *, same as Gov Taft voted)at 8 am (pre-work rush) and knowing the history of Blackwell's directives-my heart grew heavy. I worked with Kerry staff and attended the hotel reception after the polls closed. So confident of victory was the Kerry team that we didn't even have to phone the west coast after our polls closed. I worked with several people who had connections at network news. Everyone was saying the same thing: Kerry Victory. I went home at 1:30 am and the Kerry staff was still saying the same thing: don't worry our "boiler room" (never got that one) says Kerry won big. I left with that same heavy heart-I figured that the dems did not combat the fraud we warned about. I will never let this go!
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
sabra Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-27-05 10:11 PM
Response to Original message
18. OHIO GOP
They are being exposed right now via the Coin-gate scandal in Ohio. It's getting so bad, that a GOP head is requiring all OH GOP to take ethics seminars (as a refresher). And these are the same people that gave Bush Ohio and the election.... connect the dots....

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
TheUnspeakable Donating Member (960 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-27-05 10:30 PM
Response to Original message
19. The Fact a Chimp was re-elected convinced me it was stolen!
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
bling bling Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-27-05 11:25 PM
Response to Original message
20. When I saw that CNN had changed the exit polls for Ohio with my own eyes.
On election night the exit polls changed from favoring Kerry to Bush sometime around 1 am in the morning. I'd seen the exit polls on CNN.com at my moms house around 12 am (Kerry was ahead at about 53%). I came home and logged onto DU and someone started a thread stating CNN had changed the exit polls! I went back to CNN.com and sure enough, they had changed the numbers to show Bush ahead, without a footnoot or explanation or anything.

I knew at that moment something was wrong. I have yet to be convinced otherwise. I still firmly believe it was stolen.

CNN is still the shadiest "news" organization of them all, IMO, too.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Amaryllis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-27-05 11:34 PM
Response to Original message
21. TIA, why do you never include "knew it was gonna be stolen before
it was." Any of us who'd been following e-voting and what was going on in FL and OH knew it was going to be stolen again. A number of people were writing articles about how it would be stolen before it was.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
TruthIsAll Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-27-05 11:56 PM
Response to Reply #21
23. I knew it too. The point of this poll is to find out
which is the most conclusive evidence that it WAS stolen.

In fact, they ALL are, but there has to be ONE which really jumps out.

For me, the BIG 3 are:

1. 86 of 88 touchcreens switching to Bush (direct evidence)

2. 16 states deviating beyond the MoE to Bush (circumstantial evidence of massive fraud)

3. Changing the How Voted in 2000 weighting from 41% for Bush in the 13047 timeline to 43% in the Final 13660 Exit Poll (this is absolute proof that the exit polls were manipulated to match a corrupted vote, even if it meant using weightings which were mathematically impossible)

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
paineinthearse Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-28-05 10:26 AM
Response to Original message
26. That the skull and bones frat brother caved within a matter of hours. nt
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Kansas Wyatt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-28-05 04:56 PM
Response to Original message
27. Jesus Christ, Bush hit every Mega Lottery in the entire galaxy...
On the same day (entire galaxy - includes undiscovered planets with lotto playing populations on them).

Kind of odd how he can be that lucky and so unlucky at everything else.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
deacon2 Donating Member (396 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-29-05 01:17 AM
Response to Original message
28. All of the above... and you.
Thanks for keeping the fires stoked and burning.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
autorank Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-29-05 11:44 AM
Response to Original message
29. All of the above and I repeat deacon2's remarks-You!
But I like to go with the odds and this is my choice:

16 states deviating beyond the exit poll MoE to Bush, none to Kerry. 1 in 19,000,000,000,000 odds

This shows the utility of DU polling!

NEW LEADERS FOR A NEW DEMOCRATIC PARTY!

Contact the DNC and Give 'em Hell About NOT Acting on Election Fraud
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Coexist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-29-05 01:28 PM
Response to Original message
30. I can only choose one??!!
boy that's tough.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
bleever Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-29-05 01:34 PM
Response to Original message
31. Undecideds historically break for the challenger. * below 50%.
And on and on.

I actually never expected the evidence to be quite this abundant.

:thumbsup:

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Carolab Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-29-05 03:13 PM
Response to Original message
32. All of the above. The census data you provided is the cherry on top.
n/t
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Peace Patriot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-29-05 08:05 PM
Response to Original message
33. Actually, the thing that tipped it for me was the Democrats' blowout...
...success in new voter registration in 2004 (nearly 60/40)--which I first read about in Steven Freeman's first paper (not too long after the election). Then, the preponderance of the evidence--all of the above--reading TIA and how many different ways that the various numbers showed an impossible official result. It's overwhelming.

But the evidence doesn't even end there. The 86 of 88 touchscreens changing Kerry to Bush. That's a lot of "machine malfunctions" favoring Bush--too many, could not be random error. How could that happen except by a fraud program?

The overt stuff in Ohio just told me that the Bushites were desperate--it was a landslide, and they had to go all out to defeat us, using every in-place operative and every backup plan (except the "terrorist alert" plan, which was only used in Warren County).

Why did the Dem new voter registration tip it for me? Because it felt right and fit with everything else I knew about the campaign. A friend of mine talking to someone she knew who never voted, telling her she MUST vote THIS TIME (and she did!). The Gore 2000 voters were very motivated to get Bush out. This motivation and enthusiasm resulted in so many new voters, and also in Nader voters and independents voting for Kerry in big numbers--and in very big overall turnout, which always favors Dems. Freeman giving me stats on it told me that MY perception of the election was not wrong. (Cheney-Rove gave me pause, with their "invisible" GOTV campaign B.S.--the bloody lying dogs! I wondered-could it be true? (--typical open-minded liberal that I am)).

I didn't become convinced about the exit polls until a bit later. And now, as I said, it's ALL OF THESE. The sheer weight of the evidence--and its manifestation in all number sets and facts EXCEPT the official tally.

The FINAL one for me has been Bush's approval ratings. 42% currently! Bad over the whole of last year. Only 49% on his very "inauguration" day. And dozens of opinion polls showing huge American disapproval of all Bush policies--up in the 60% to 70% range.

My favorite is this, because it touches my heart: 63% of Americans disapprove of torturing prisoners UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCES. That's a people you can love and trust. They didn't "re-elect" Bush. No way.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
LightningFlash Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-05-05 07:14 PM
Response to Reply #33
35. What about Gender weightings that reverse themselves?
Census Gender statistics matched Exit Poll weights to within
0.5%:
Female Male Votes (000)
Exit 54% 46% 122,267
Census 53.51% 46.49% 125,736
Vote 67,281 58,455

The tables below give various scenarios and probabilities
using Census gender voting statistics and the 13047 exit poll
voting percentages.

Kerry ties Bush when he gets 52.75% of the female vote and
45.75% of the male vote. This is the breakeven (B/E)
scenario.

The probability that Bush would at least tie in the popular
vote is 0.71% (1 in 140).

The probability that Bush would go from 48.25% in the poll to
his recorded vote of 50.25% is
1 in 2,083,900.

The probability that Bush would go from 47.75% in the poll to
his recorded vote of 50.25% is
1 in 485,887,839

Kerry Vote scenarios
13047 B/E 13660
Male 47.5% 47.0% 46.5% 46.0% 45.75% 45.5% 45.0% 44.5% 44.0%
Female 54.5% 54.0% 53.5% 53.0% 52.75% 52.5% 52.0% 51.5% 51.0%

Votes:
Male 27766 27474 27182 26889 26743 26597 26305 26012 25720
Female 36668 36332 35995 35659 35491 35323 34986 34650 34313

Total 64434 63806 63177 62548 62234 61920 61291 60662 60034
Kerry% 51.25% 50.75% 50.25% 49.75% 49.50% 49.25% 48.75% 48.25% 47.75%




Bush Vote scenarios
13047 B/E 13660
Male 51.5% 52.0% 52.5% 53.0% 53.25% 53.5% 54.0% 54.5% 55.0%
Female 44.5% 45.0% 45.5% 46.0% 46.25% 46.5% 47.0% 47.5% 48.0%

Votes:
Male 30104 30397 30689 30981 31127 31273 31566 31858 32150
Female 29940 30276 30613 30949 31117 31286 31622 31958 32295

Total 60044 60673 61302 61930 62245 62559 63188 63816 64445
Bush% 47.75% 48.25% 48.75% 49.25% 49.50% 49.75% 50.25% 50.75% 51.25%

Prob 0.00% 0.00% 0.00% 0.16% 0.71% 2.50% 16.35% 50.00% 83.65%
1 in 486mm 2.1mm 22,577 609 140 40 6 2 1

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
TruthIsAll Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-05-05 01:08 AM
Response to Original message
34. Could it be that they are down to the pathetic rBr liepothesis?
.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
senegal1 Donating Member (489 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-05-05 07:33 PM
Response to Reply #34
36. How about the face of the newscasters on election night
when the blue states started to change to red ones... several newscasters were visibly shaken. Then that feeling that something was wrong... then when I typed in election fraud for the hell of it the next day and saw so many many web pages on the internet and started reading...
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
DU AdBot (1000+ posts) Click to send private message to this author Click to view 
this author's profile Click to add 
this author to your buddy list Click to add 
this author to your Ignore list Sun Apr 30th 2017, 08:59 PM
Response to Original message
Advertisements [?]
 Top

Home » Discuss » Topic Forums » Election Reform Donate to DU

Powered by DCForum+ Version 1.1 Copyright 1997-2002 DCScripts.com
Software has been extensively modified by the DU administrators


Important Notices: By participating on this discussion board, visitors agree to abide by the rules outlined on our Rules page. Messages posted on the Democratic Underground Discussion Forums are the opinions of the individuals who post them, and do not necessarily represent the opinions of Democratic Underground, LLC.

Home  |  Discussion Forums  |  Journals |  Store  |  Donate

About DU  |  Contact Us  |  Privacy Policy

Got a message for Democratic Underground? Click here to send us a message.

© 2001 - 2011 Democratic Underground, LLC