My friend, disgusted w/2004 election, is moving to China

[Jo March]

He just sent me an email telling me. He was so disgusted after the 2004 election that he started making plans. As he knows people in China, he started planning.

I tried to convince him of election fraud but he refused to believe me, choosing to believe that Americans are just stupid. "Arnie, I know that you want to believe in fraud but Americans just want those bastards to stay in office. I can't live in a country that wants Bush for President. Things are going to get worse and worse. I need to get out while I can."

Dammit! I feel so awful about this. I feel a bit guilty even. I sent him all kinds of links and he just refused to believe in fraud.

"At least," I said, "you can fight! You can stay and fight these guys and not take your very intelligent voice to China!"

Dammit. Dammit. Dammit.

I've alienated most of my friends due to the election fraud talk. I've cut off my repub friends because - well, they are infuriating and life is too short.

I love DUers but it's nice to have a flesh and blood friend to discuss things with, you know??

I didn't think that it was possible to despise * any more than I did but it is possible.

Dammit.

[demnan]

1. You could move to China

It would be cool to have a DU'ers perspective from over there.

[Jo March]

5. No. I prefer to stay and fight

My health lately has not allowed for much fighting.

Besides, I'm not one for communist countries. I like democracy too much!

Besides, Mr. Arnheim would kick my ass.

[Silverhair]

2. So he is going to China??

He may be in for some real awakenings after a year or two there.

[Jo March]

6. Like I said, he has friends over there

He's been in the IT field for years and is a computer whiz. Seriously - he scares me because he is so smart.

I think that he just wanted away from the US.

[Bill Bored]

18. How could a computer wiz NOT believe in election fraud? nt

[Jo March]

21. We all see what we want to see and

we refuse to see what we don't want to see.

I had him on the fence when I mentioned Microsoft Access but he just refuses to believe.

[tubbacheez]

3. Have your friend convert some of your dollars to yuan.

There's huge upward pressure on the yuan compared to the dollar. When it unpegs from the dollar, you gain a profit.

[Jo March]

13. That is a great idea

I think that's a great idea. May have to do that! :) Thanks!

[tubbacheez]

15. Anytime! :) n/t

[beyurslf]

4. I am not sure that China is known for its forward thinking, progressive

policies. Or, for that matter, their freedom of expession or fair elections.

[Jo March]

8. I know! I know!

I guess if you don't really have elections then they can't be stolen.

Sigh. It's such a waste. He writes every bit as intelligently as Will Pitt and he's every bit as smart as TruthIsAll. He could have helped our cause tremendously.

[tommcintyre]

16. He may be intelligent, but he's not thinking clearly

This is a classic case of going "from the frying pan to the fire". (He won't even have an uncensored Internet over there.)

Maybe he's rationalizing this decision (even subconsciously) because he really wants to move there for other reasons (homesickness, perceived economic opportunity, etc)? If so, there's nothing you can do but wish him well, and join up with even more like-minded progressives who are committed to stay and fight (at least until 2006).

Keep up the good work Arny, ya make us proud. :D

[Jo March]

22. It's really a loss for me. I am going to miss him

He gets a little infuriating at times and isn't always the best at responding to emails (lol) but he is a good guy and very loyal to his friends.

Thanks for the praise but I've done nothing compared to others on this board. My health hasn't been the best lately. I must have the * flu or something.

[Jo March]

25. He's never been there before.

He says that he can live there for the rest of his life on just his savings although he does plan to get a job.

I do wish him well. I just hate that he's not joining the fight and is choosing to leave the US.

[Warpy]

7. If I had either youth or health going for me,

I'd be tempted to leave, too. This goes so much deeper than just Bush. Both parties have presided over the destruction of this country because both parties are in debt to the multinational corporations and their greed.

Since I'm trapped by age, poor health, and poverty, I'll continue to sit here and rail against the destruction of my country and its people by the rich and the corporate. I'll just have to be content with being an irritant.

[Jo March]

10. He is young, healthy and financially secure

So, I guess it's easier for him to leave.

Personally, if I were going to leave, I wouldn't have picked China.

It's just a shock that he is actually going to abandon the US.

[BillyDoc]

11. Come and irritate with me!

Collect signatures for a State constitutional amendment against political bribery and cut the bastards off at the knees!

http://breakthelink.org

And don't let a little detail like no initiative process in your State stop you!

[Jo March]

12. This is quite a new thing - I'll add it to the VOTE database

We need all of the organizations who fight stuff like this - and may help out with election reform in the process! ;) (It all comes back to election reform!)

[BillyDoc]

26. Thanks!

Our biggest problem has been getting the word out that we CAN fight these bastards. We just have to fight smart and be willing to engage in a little civil disobedience now and then. By that, I mean collect signatures even if there is no formal initiative process in a particular state.

Showing up on the legislature's doorstep with a couple hundred thousand formal signatures is bound to have an impact, and if not . . . protests have been organized before.

[Jo March]

29. I think at this point that we have to hit the streets

I think that nothing short of 5 million people marching on DC will work.

Whoops! I forgot my handy dandy MSM calculator:

Faux News: 5000 or so dissidents
CNN: 10,000 poorly organized Democrats

I keep forgetting that I can't just write straight numbers anymore!

:evilgrin:

[On the Road]

9. I Understand the Sentiment

but it seems like an odd choice of destination.

[Jo March]

14. I guess he felt that since China owns so much of our debt ??

I don't know. He has friends all over the world. Why there?

Part of me thinks that he is a coward for leaving but that's not really fair.

I'm angry and sad at the same time.

[kypper]

17. I'm moving to France...

if the Conservatives get into power here in Canada. I refuse to be Bush's butt-boy, and Harper will only speed up the process.

I completely sympathize with your friend.

[tommcintyre]

19. Voila! A much better choice.

France still has a strong democracy - people's interests still come before corporate interests. I say "still", because there is pressure to erode their hard-fought social gains in the name of "international competitiveness".

So far, the people have fought off these attempts for the most part - even though they have a conservative PM (Chirac). The people are still willing to take to the streets if the rich elite try to "steal their lunch" again. I say "again" since that's what they had to overcome in the French Revolution. (It appears the French have longer memories than us Americans. ;) )

On the subject of the French: The French are misunderstood by many Americans. Over Christmas, I was in France with a group of over 100 Americans (they were mostly conservative - I was one of the few progressives). We had an orientation about the country. One of our group asked: "Why do the French hate us so much?" The questioner explained further: "The French must hate America to have opposed us the way they did in the UN <Iraq war vote>.

I bit my tongue, and let one of our guides answer. They said, "We don't hate Americans (or America). "Au contraire", we LOVE you and what you stand for! But sometimes we disagree with you, and we're NOT afraid to say so when we do. Afterall, that's what Democracy is all about, n'est pas?" <Her answer was much better (and polite) than mine would've been. :evilgrin: >

Anyway, I think France is a much better choice if one finds it necessary to leave. If we do not succeed in election reform by the 2006 election, Bushco will probably extinguish the last vestige of Democracy in this country - the Senate filibuster. Right now, they are only 5 seats away.

If that happens, I will most likely move to France too. I don't really want to... that's why I'm fighting so hard now.

[Jo March]

23. See, I can understand France

or Ireland or England or Scotland or Italy or anywhere other than China!

[suffragette]

20. ngu

Arnie:
It's a double whammy that your friend is going and that he still doesn't realize the election was stolen. I can think of no better convincer than you on this issue. You have poured heart and soul into your efforts to expose the truth about the 2004 election.
One of my closest friends moved to Europe in the late '80's. Since then, we've kept in constant touch, through writing letters (ah, her patience with my serial letters - cobbled together as I thought of something to write and consisting of all manner of odds and ends of paper - whatever was at hand at the moment), phone calls, email (love it, love it - it's great to be able to jot and send short bits) and visits across the big pond. Keep in touch with your friend and share with him his amazing new experience in another place. And keep sending him info on the election fraud. Who knows - once he has been away awhile, the new distance and perspective may help open his eyes.
Wish I was able to give you a real hug, but virtual will have to do.
:hug:

[Jo March]

24. Thanks! I'll take that virtual hug and raise you one!

:hug: :hug:

I've not done enough, apparently, when I can't even convince an extremely smart IT guy of election fraud. x(

[FogerRox]

27. No offense but we need folks who will fight

If he aint gonna fight then dont dilute the effort --

Tell him that --

to reconcile in his own mind--he is a quitter--and he is not worthy of being an American, SO GET OUT-- I dont want him here in the USA.

He is a whimp-a pussy a quitter a spinless turd, NO need for that kind is the resistance.


NOw leave me, Corp Lebeau told me to report to COl Hogan. >wink<

[Jo March]

28. Roj, when are you going to learn to speak up & say what you mean?

LOL!

I am angry because he is just saying, "Screw the rest of you, I'm getting out."

On the other hand, I've thought about leaving as well. I just can't think of any country that is as great as ours or worth my fight.

I guess I'll stay in the USA until they round me up.

Roj, I hope that I get to see you in the camps! :rofl:

[FogerRox]

30. You can have my civil rights when you pry them from cold dead hands

"Oh wait COl. Hogan is on the radio--I have to go--"

you know being in the resistance is such an intensive affair--

*Roj takes coffee pot apart and reassembles it into The "Secret radio"

"Yes Col Hogan. how are you today?"

[Jo March]

31. It's hard work being in the resistance

Just saying.

:shrug:

[FogerRox]

32. OMG ROFL slapping my thigh. falling off my chair, crying while I

lay on the floor

[Jo March]

33. Roj, you are so easy to please

Just like I like 'em! ;)

[FogerRox]

34. Ahhh shucks---stop it

[Jo March]

35. Nope - I see that you need 1 more post for 800

So, you HAVE to reply to this post. ;)

[FogerRox]

36. DO you think for 1 second that that kinda shit interests me?

i'm a mod @ the warp.net--and I purposfully had my post count altered down.

Why ? because I dont friggin care about 800 posts. Or 1000 or 1500

Now excuse me I have to put the coffee pot back together before COl Klink walks in and sees the radio.
Its hard work being the resistance ya know------

[FogerRox]

37. I feel dirty--you goaded me into spamming ahhhhhhhhhhh

[Jo March]

40. Ha!! I got you!

I'm doing a little happy dance!

:woohoo:

Rog is mine, all mine! I control him now!

:woohoo:

[tommcintyre]

38. So who ARE you REALLY? Steamboy? ;)

(A poster that was being advertised at http://thewarp.net/ when my insatiable curiosity made me go there.)

[FogerRox]

39. at the warp----FogerRox

[tommcintyre]

42. Your determination, grit and energy seems similar to his

By the look on his face, just like you, it seems like nothing can deter him!:patriot:

[Jo March]

41. You care about it! You really care!

Or you wouldn't have posted!

:evilgrin:

[punkvoterdewd]

46. I hear ya brother!

Hey guys, I just wanted to say this is a great site! Finally, we truly enlightened left wingers have a place to talk about those conservative scumfucks. Those selfish capitalist corporate scum don't deserve to keep the money that they robbed from the oppressed workers. That Nazi Bush is going to get what he deserves when the great freedom-fighters like Osama Bin Laden and Zarqawi eliminate the bastard (and hopefully all Republicans) just like they did to those corporate stooges in the WTC. Yeah, that's right, every one of them deserved to die! Man, the USA really had it coming. Finally, we got what we deserved! Bush stole the election which proves that democracy is just a tool of the corporate elite. He needs to open his eyes an realize that the real terrorists are the Republicans who want to wipe out those noble Iraqi freedom fighters like Zarqawi and Bin Laden. Fuck democracy! The masses will only be empowered when the enlightened leaders of the left-wing like us are in a position to determine their destiny! Sites like this are the vanguard of the great revolution that is imminent! Keep up the great work!

Rock on!

- Che

www.punkvoter.com

"Ward Churchill in 08'"

[berniew1]

43. He should instead help with the audit; its not over yet

[Jo March]

44. he'd be great at that

Alas, he feels that he can make a better life over there.

I guess when there's only one candidate on the ballot, there can be no election fraud per se.

[FogerRox]

45. Where is this punk? i'm goin to kick his front door down

wrestle him to the ground - twist his arm behind him until he says "UNCLE"