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tommcintyre Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-12-05 06:27 AM
Original message
A MUST READ DU ARTICLE: Means, Motive, Opportunity - BBV EXPOSED!
<This excellent article is on the front page of our own DU. Read it and propagate it far and wide. Things are starting to heat up! With all that is happening in the last couple of weeks, THEY WON'T BE ABLE TO KEEP THE LID ON THIS MUCH LONGER!>

http://www.democraticunderground.com/crisis/05/006_ep.h...
<snip>

"...if GOP partisans own the voting machines, count the votes, refuse to allow independent validation of the tallies, and if the Republicans choose to take advantage of this opportunity for fraud, is there any way any way at all that the Democrats could win the 2006 election and regain control of Congress?

If not, then why do the Democrats persist in looking hopefully to 2006 - "the next time?" After all, 2002 and 2004 were "the next time," and there is abundant evidence that in both cases, the peoples' will was reversed by the Diebold and ES&S black boxes.

Clearly, the Democratic Party and its allies look forward to victory in 2006 because they are in denial: they simply cannot bring themselves to face the compelling evidence that in the United States today, the electoral process is rigged, thus the will of the people is irrelevant to the governance of the nation, and thus the United States has ceased to be a democracy.

Neither the 2004 Democratic Party candidate, John Kerry, nor the Party's Chairman, Howard Dean, will publicly entertain the notion that the fix is in. The issue of electoral fraud is simply not on the agenda of the Democratic National Committee. Prominent progressives such as Vermont's Bernie Sanders, Al Franken, Paul Begala, and Arianna Huffington insist that Bush won the election, "fair and square," and that the "anomalies" in Florida and Ohio were not sufficient to have determined the outcome."

<snip>
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acmavm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-12-05 06:36 AM
Response to Original message
1. There are people, many, many people, who are aware of what happened
Edited on Tue Apr-12-05 06:37 AM by acmavm
this last election. But if our leaders are too gutless, or have sold their souls out to the corporations and the wealthy donors, we are boxed into a corner. We need a man or woman, a champion if you will, to come out swinging with the rest of us standing behind him/her.

edit; We need a credible, political, well-known person to publically say what we all know. The liars, crooks, murderers, and thieves have stolen our country.
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tommcintyre Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-12-05 07:13 AM
Response to Reply #1
2. "We are the ones we have been waiting for." my friend
From: "I Showed Up -- Reflections on the "Nash-ional" Conference"
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...

We can no longer "wait" for our leaders to lead on this issue. "WE" must become those leaders now - too much is at stake to do otherwise.

In the last couple of weeks, remarkable things has been happening. I truly believe we have a realistic opportunity to "turn the tide".

It's time for the "many, many people, who are aware of what happened" to shake off their discouragement and FIGHT BACK!

Here are a couple of links to show you that the momentum is turning our way:

IT'S HAPPENING: 19 days that could "turn the tide":
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...

Man, did a lot happen in the last week or what?
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...

Please "stay tuned" to what is happening in this forum (and ask others to do so also), and join in the suggested actions that are posted here to help us...

TAKE OUR DEMOCRACY BACK!


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Peace Patriot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-13-05 06:56 PM
Response to Reply #1
23. "We are the ones we have been waiting for." I agree!
"We need a man or woman, a champion if you will, to come out swinging with the rest of us standing behind him/her....We need a credible, political, well-known person to publically say what we all know. The liars, crooks, murderers, and thieves have stolen our country." --acmavm

It seems to be the lesson that the Gods of Democracy are trying to teach us, that we cannot rely on our leaders, and that we ourselves must BE the democracy that we desire to have. We must create it ourselves. We must live it every day.

If leaders arise, they will be slain. And if we rely on them, there goes our power. Those of us who lived through the JFK, RFK and Martin Luther King assassinations know this deeply. And it has been more recently experienced with the uninvestigated death of Senator Paul Wellstone (who had pledged to lead the fight against the Iraq war, and had the skill and depth and political support to do it). In a less dire--but equally bitter--circumstance, our vigilant Sec of State in Calif, Kevin Shelley, was recently driven from office and his career ruined, in a media campaign of unproven, trivial changes. He had decertified all DREs in Calif, and sued Diebold for their lies about their machines, and set the highest standards in the nation for electronic voting. Now gone. Replaced by a Schwarzenegger appointee and patsy. (Step on a Bush buddy, and interfere with the Bush Cartel's election crimes, and see your career in ashes.)

Just when we think we have a leader who will fix things for us--gone, fini.

The premise of democracy is the sovereignty of the people, not the leaders. We've come far, far away from this premise. I blame it partly on the development of atomic weapons, which turned the president into a virtual God, with the power to annihilate all of us and all life on earth. One man. One button. You cannot have a democracy in those circumstances--or it's damned difficult. The person who holds that power is too much reverenced, and the system that upholds him is too worshipful and too fetishistic, and those attitudes bleed down into the lower halls of power.

Why is it so nerve-wracking to have a president whom many of us feel is nuts, or teetering on nuts, and/or is furthermore the puppet of only partially visible corporate and financial powers? It's because of nuclear weapons--the fear, the reverence that such power inspires--and, of course, the necessity of having a stable, reasonable, decent person with their finger on the button (someone whom we feel would think of the rest of us, if it came to that). All other policy comes into it as well. We want someone as president who is looking out for our interests, the public interest. But it's the nuclear (and perhaps also general military) power that makes us feel that we are teetering on the brink of chaos, with this lunatic in the White House.

In our democracy--even as designed, a Republic--it shouldn't matter so much. We should be able to trust in the balanced powers of government to restrain a bad president. There is TOO MUCH AT STAKE. That is part of the problem.

Also, in theory anyway, the leaders of our country, state and local jurisdictions are there to serve US. What they are doing, or supposedly doing, is public SERVICE. Think about that for a moment. How far have we come from that idea?

Most of our leaders seem to be either into self-puffery and aggrandizement, or self enrichment, or both. The Bush Cartel has done much to destroy the idea of public service, but it didn't start with them. It goes back several decades to massive infusions of corporate money into the political system, and our inability, as a people, to put a stop to it. (We should have enacted a Constitutional amendment, long ago, banning all private money in political campaigns--and should have done it when we had the chance to, with Democratic Congresses. I know, alas and alack--we didn't.)

Add the Bush Cartel into this picture--the picture of an already eroded democracy--and you have fascism: leaders who are so removed from the people that they freely implement their own agenda to benefit themselves, don't care in the least what the majority of the people want, and seek more and more power to continue serving themselves.

We cannot correct this long-developing situation with a leader arising and doing it for us. For one thing, as I said above, the fascists who control our government right now--the Bush Cartel--will not allow a populist leader to arise. They will kill or ruin him or her. And that will send us back into the doldrums again, as has happened before. And they will corrupt others (they are masters at that). Many of our Democratic Party leaders fall into that category--corrupted by HAVA money (over $4 billion), or by "revolving door" employment with electronic voting machine companies (local/state election officials), or by military-industrial complex bribery and collusion, or--and I think this is a big one--they favor war in the Middle East, and were not all that interested in ousting the Bush regime. Or--another big one--they live in a bubble of riches and power, and want to stay there. They may think they are doing good there, but then gradually become protectors of the ruling elite.

Leaders expecting privileges and reverance; expecting protection from the huddled masses. Flying high above us all. (Paul Wellstone was one of the last leaders on the national stage who didn't live in that bubble--he was a genuine populist.)

And add to all this, the fear that the Bush Cartel inspires--fear of being ruined, fear of being anthraxed, fear of your plane falling out of the air--and you have a paralyzed political system.

So...what do we do?

I think we have to look hard at this situation, and see it clearly. It has similarities to historical situatons but they are not exact. Hitler's Germany, for instance, was (is) a small country, with a homogenous culture--much more easily controlled. Ours is a huge country, with a greatly diverse population, very difficult to control.

So maybe the solution here is not national. That's what I'm pointing at. I see a lot of things pointing that way, to our diversity, to this huge landscape, and its divisions into states and counties, as our strength.

I think we have to give up any notion of a White Knight coming along and saving us from the Bush regime, or any big dramatic event, like revelation of their election fraud. At best, such a revelation might usher in a more liberal cartel, who may back off from the more extreme corporate policies (privatization of Social Security, preemptive war), but won't likely go forward with real reform. It might bring short term relief, but won't tackle the underlying conditions that led to this fascist coup.

I'm not saying don't go for it--revelation of the fraud (and other crimes), and a political fight, a fight for the White House and the Congress--in so far as we can fight, with a rigged election system, and the news propaganda machine. I'm just saying don't count on winning a national battle just yet. We've seen just how bad things are with the election reform bills on Congress. We do not have a just and fair Congress, one that acts in the public interest. We can't count on them, or on any national entity (not even the League of Women voters, it turns out--the leadership is totally out to lunch, or corrupt.)

Secondly, we need to fight where our strength is, locally. And the first battle is election reform, which I think has to take place--and is taking place--from the bottom up.

Our mistake is in thinking that we can leap from the bottom of the political heap all the way to the top--to the national political scene (wholly controlled and corrupt, as it is)--in one big leap--either by the sudden enlightenment and action of some political leader, or by the interaction of forces (politics, news media investigation, court cases) that, individually, show no signs of helping this country restore democracy, but that some of us keep placing unreasonable faith in.

Democracy always happens from the bottom up. It is never granted by grace of the powers that be. We have to get that through our heads. And start ACTING LIKE people who BELIEVE IN DEMOCRACY. Us. Our collective consciousnes and will. The power, the sovereignty of ordinary people, as a people, as a nation. That's what we have to believe in, and ENACT.

The powers that be who took away our right to vote are not going to give it back because we ask them to, or because it's the right thing to do. They wrongfully took it away in the first place, on purpose, to disenfranchise us. But we might just be able to influence our local registrar to get rid of DREs. We have much more power to throw such a person out of office, than we do to throw Bush out of office. And we have a much smaller population base to activate to that purpose.

We need to exercise patience and humility, and we need to work together. Patience--this is a long term project. Humilty--it's not up to you or me, it's up to us all, collectively. We each just need to do our part, not everything. Put aside the idea of heroes and leaders. Think democracy. Real democracy. Not this sham we have now, of the rich and the poor, and the powerful and the unpowerful. Democracy as the collective sovereignty of the people.

If you believe in democracy, in real democracy, then know this, friend: You are not alone.

"We are the ones we have been waiting for."




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papau Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-12-05 07:31 AM
Response to Original message
3. Our media has sold its soul
until that changes there is little hope without taking to the streets.
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tommcintyre Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-12-05 07:38 AM
Response to Reply #3
4. YES! "Take to the streets", tell others, send emails, faxes or call...
In other words...

TAKE ACTION!
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MeDeMax Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-12-05 07:47 AM
Response to Original message
5. those arguments are very true...
each time I think about our loss in 2004 my first reaction is - "they rigged the votes".

Whether you want to believe the rigging was by - software in the electronic machines, lack of receipts, voter intimidation, vote suppression in democratic areas...any what have you.

But my next reaction is - "based on 2000, we knew this was going to happen in 2004, why didn't we prevent it ?"

I concur with the article has to say.

Our democracy is doomed in 2006, 2008...20xx


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tommcintyre Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-12-05 07:59 AM
Response to Reply #5
7. "why didn't we prevent it ?" We expected our leadership to "fix it"
We can only speculate on why they did not. The one thing we know for sure, is OUR LEADERSHIP DID NOT FIX IT.

So should we count on them to do it THIS time? I think not.

So, if it is to be done, it is up to us - the grassroots - to "take the bull by the horns" (or the elephant by the ears ;) ), and...
TAKE THE NECESSARY ACTION!
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SophieZ Donating Member (254 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-13-05 12:53 PM
Response to Reply #7
17. The "elected" leadership has failed. Well. They weren't elected.
I'm going to start a thread discussing this.

This excerpt states the problem succinctly:


There is a great deal of evidence, both statistical and "hard," that vote counting, the bedrock protocol of our democracy, has been subverted; that the avowedly partisan right-wing corporations that build, program, and service the computerized vote recording and counting equipment have been given a free hand to determine the outcome of elections; that this happened in 2002 and 2004 (at least) and will continue to happen indefinitely, since the ruling regime cannot be forced to effectively reform the system (and thereby kill the goose that is laying their golden eggs) if rigging has taken away the people's power to defeat them at the polls (this is the appalling catch-22 we face).

We who have unearthed and analyzed the evidence have been ruthlessly spun into "conspiracy theorists" and marginalized, with the cooperation (sometimes enthusiastic, sometimes unwitting) of essentially the entire mainstream media.
It appears that revelation of fundamental and massive fraud in the American electoral process, and of course the gross illegitimacy of the ruling regime, would be too devastating to the social, political, and economic structures (consider, e.g., the dollar) upon which this strong and fat nation has come to rely. It is maddenly clear that those who have engineered the stealthy takeover of the election process have taken this into account, recognizing that they have little to fear from the evidence that does emerge because the entire system will, perhaps unwittingly, cooperate to resist the "disaster" of exposure.


Jonathan D. Simon, writing in response to a Washington Post op-ed, around 4 10 05, quoted in an email from Mark Crispin Miller
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Wilms Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-13-05 01:56 PM
Response to Reply #17
18. That would make a cool thread. n/t
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SophieZ Donating Member (254 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-13-05 02:00 PM
Response to Reply #18
19. Okay. Here's the thread.
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keepthemhonest Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-12-05 07:52 AM
Response to Original message
6. great article will pas it on. n/t
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tommcintyre Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-12-05 08:08 AM
Response to Reply #6
8. I know you will :D
You, and all the others who attended the National Election Conference, are in the front lines on this battle to SAVE DEMOCRACY - and an inspiration to us all!

Update from the NASHVILLE conference / and bradblog suggestion
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...

We will continue to fight the "good fight" until justice prevails!
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keepthemhonest Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-12-05 09:11 AM
Response to Reply #8
9. Tom you give us the tools
to help this movment grow and sometimes make us look bigger than we actually are. I hope we will grow this movment even bigger with help from people like yourself, we all have to be our own heros'/leaders noone is coming to rescue us. I love that one it really opened my eyes hearing that. take care
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Wilms Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-12-05 02:37 PM
Response to Original message
10. Kick n/t
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kster Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-12-05 02:49 PM
Response to Original message
11. Kick.........N/T
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jen4clark Donating Member (812 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-12-05 06:30 PM
Response to Original message
12. Kick!!
Tommcintyre you ROCK!

It's just so weird 'cuz Howard Dean actually rigged the tabulator himself and he's not talking about this. We know Kerry knows about it - he's not talking about it. The only conclusion one can come to is the Dems are in it deep enough that they can't fight it.

Wonder about Nader? Doesn't this seem like the kind of thing he'd join in on? It's a very scary, frustrating thing - it's like a weird scifi novel or movie and very hard to accept that what we're watching is the death of our own democracy.

Even some of our own liberal/progressive friends don't believe the our elections are rigged! How can that be?

The article on the front page gave me an idea - maybe the Dems have been threatened by the * Crime Family? I mean,they seriously could not lose or the whole house of cards would have been destroyed. I dunno, I just feel so lost about this whole thing and now I'm rambling... :cry:
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tommcintyre Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-13-05 03:51 PM
Response to Reply #12
21. It's most likely the Dems are embarrassed by their incompetence.
Some major mistakes were allowed (VERY POOR JUDGMENT) by the Dems to let this happen AGAIN! Now, if it came out about the fraud, the dem majority would turn to them and ask: "WHY DID YOU LET THIS HAPPEN?"

Read this article, it will give you more of a feeling of what I mean:
http://www.computerworld.com/governmenttopics/governmen...
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adolfo Donating Member (525 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-12-05 07:48 PM
Response to Original message
13. Kick
:kick:
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KoKo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-12-05 08:26 PM
Response to Original message
14. Our NC Legislature is preparing to vote on this and this is a great
article to distribute amongst our Activists for Voting Reform...Thanks and to Skinner for putting it on the front page! :bounce:
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tommcintyre Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-13-05 03:48 AM
Response to Reply #14
16. I totally agree on both points!
Thanks skinner! :headbang:
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Wilms Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-13-05 03:47 AM
Response to Original message
15. kick n/t

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Kip Humphrey Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-13-05 03:00 PM
Response to Reply #15
20. In my dreams...
No, really, this IS one of my dreams! One day...

Can you make one of Wolf Blitzer too?
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keepthemhonest Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-13-05 06:13 PM
Response to Original message
22. Hey Tom
I was wondering if the things coming out like Landsharks Lawsuit and Miami Dade going back to Paper ballots and stuff like that would warrant the use of the mediablaster? what do you think?

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tommcintyre Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-14-05 03:25 AM
Response to Reply #22
24. Yes... they definitely will
It will include:

MSNBC/REUTERS on lawsuit to terminate Sequoia
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...

BRADBLOG: Miami Herald discusses Clint Curtis! Calls for Paper Ballots
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...

The Silent Scream of Numbers -- Robert Koehler's "Nash-ional" column
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...

The Carter Election Reform Commission (using the Conyers blog.)
BradBlog: Conyers to Carter: James Baker 'Inappropriate' for...Commision
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...
John Conyers blogs today. Topic: The New Election Reform Commission
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...

Scientific Analysis Suggests Presidential Vote Counts May Have Been Altered Group of University Professors Urges Investigation of 2004 Election
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...

------------------------------------------------------------------

"Can it be that we are breaking through the curtain of silence? Are our newspaper people getting their spines back??"

Maybe the infamous "lockdown memo" is being repealed? Well... let's assume it is, and keep peppering them with information.
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