Yesterday was a little depressing for me....

[garybeck]

It was the 2nd anniversary of the start of the Iraq war. I went to the protest in downtown Burlington VT.

It wasn't all bad. The speakers had some very powerful things to say, and the people that were there seemed motivated.

But...

I was disappointed by the low turnout. I don't know anyone that's really "for" the war, but not many people were willing to leave the comfort of their own home on this Sunday afternoon.

As well, I found that virtually NO ONE there had any idea what was going on with the stolen election. The speakers talked about Bush winning the election. I had my table of info on the election there but most people who I talked to didn't even know about electronic voting machines.

Note, the Green Party and the Socialist party were set up at the protest, but the Democratic party was M.I.A.

I also had an sick conversation with a Vet who was for the war. Said only 1500 casualties in 2 years is less than they usually have even when we're not at war. Raved about how the Iraqis are so glad we saved them from Saddam.

So, can anyone cheer me up and tell me that the protests in the other cities and states were much bigger?

[doublethink]

1. Keep your head up ....

Go here .... pictures of San Diego protest .... Peace. :)

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=104&topic_id=3309148&mesg_id=3309148

[rodeodance]

2. the Terri S media show was what was depressing to me-diverted

coverage of any 2 year anniversary.

[garybeck]

4. thanks, that did help

maybe I need to move back to the west coast.

[Wilms]

3. Perhaps not that bad.

I read a report saying that there were a lot of smaller protests around NYC area. And another article under-reported the number of demonstrators in NYC, saying 350 people. Photos posted on DU tell a different story.

Beyond that, it's a Shiavo-Centric time here at DU while "as the world burns". :shrug:

FreePress Article...very solid.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=203x346974

[babylonsister]

5. Check these pix out. I watched Democracy Now yesterday,

and they showed coverage of demonstrations all over the country. Fayetteville, NC, had the most demonstrators since the VN war. People are angry and responded. And with what's going on in this country, the numbers can only grow.


http://community.webshots.com/album/299199293XoUhYJ

[dzika]

6. DemocracyNow did have the best protest coverage yesterday

And they still found time for an interesting Greg Palast report about the plans for Oil in Iraq.

Truthout.org also had a nice online video report about the protests at Fort Bragg.



I live about 40 miles from Fort Bragg and the local coverage was far better than 10-20 second clips that the MSM played just a few times.


Overall, DemocracyNow was the best with these stories:

From New York to Fayetteville, London to Rome - Major Protests Mark Second Anniversary of Iraq Invasion

Thousands Protest in Fayetteville in Largest Army Base Demonstration Since Vietnam

[marions ghost]

15. "War's not Working..."

Truthout's video from Fort Bragg is excellent. Thanks for posting, dzika. Special thanks to all the military families who are coming together to say, "War's not working." (my favorite quote from the videoclip).

[YvonneCa]

7. garybeck...

...this thread you started has some great pictures. They need to be in a place where they can be seen. I tried nominating for the greatest page (as others did) but it's too late. I can't start new threads yet. Can you??????? :D :D :D

[emlev]

8. Glad to hear we have some easy potential converts

Here's my spin on virtually no one at the Burlington demo knowing about the stolen election. The folks that would go to such a thing are ripe for believing us if we can find more effective ways to get the word out. It feels hopeful to me that the few of us who are working on this issue don't represent the only people willing to get active, but simply the only people *who have the information* and are willing to get active.

So some of our next steps, which I know you're already working on, are about getting the word out more. It's more than "being the media," it's "being the leaders." The bumpersticker "If the people lead, the leaders will follow." comes to mind.

My personal belief is that low turnout at demos, where it occurred, is due to people feeling hopeless and perhaps fear of increased police violence at demos as a result of curtailment of civil rights.

[Freddie Stubbs]

9. The Democratic Party was "MIA" because

protests usually don't accomplish very much in this country. Right before the war started there were large protests. Not only did they not stop the war, they also didn't sway public opinion (the way that the war went did that). Protests in this day and age are simply a way for people to feel like they are doing something constructive.

[garybeck]

11. protests do accomplish a lot

what was the 1963 march on washington?

or the anti-war protests in the 60s?

S. Africa divestment campaign protests in the 80s?

sometimes protest is our last recourse and it IS effective. But people have to show up.

-Gary

[Helga Scow Stern]

10. Our friend at Dublin, Ireland protest

Paddy Maynooth, handed out all 100 of his election fraud flyers and wished he'd had more.

He said people were surprised by the information. A cop said it was a waste of paper, but then his boss took one!

[Peace Patriot]

12. Gary, you are mixing two things together than don't necessarily go...

...together: people who are distressed by the country's leadership (and, in opinion polls, overwhelmingly against every major Bush policy, domestic and foreign--in the 60% to 70% range--the vast majority of the country extremely unhappy with Bush Inc.), and people who feel that an antiwar protest might do some good and are willing to attend one.

As for anti-war protests, or any other protest on a matter of conscience, NEVER, NEVER, NEVER dis a small crowd. NEVER. One person standing up is a blessing and a miracle. One person! And two is cause of celebration! Greet them with cheers and joy!

And remember, with the justifications for the Iraq war, it took a year--a YEAR!--to get the truth out to the general population. Now it's accepted knowledge--even by the news monopolies. No Iraq WMDs. No connection to 9/11. How did that happen? By people like you not giving up on the truth, and continuing to try to spread the word.

We are a big sprawling country, and what happened with Election 2004 was a national event, controlled by the news monopolies, who quite deliberately denied the American public major evidence of fraud--the exit polls showing a Kerry win. (They altered them to fit the official tally.) To understand the Election 2004 fraud, people have to challenge very basic assumptions about our country and their perception of events--for instance, grasping that the news monopolies would CHANGE the data--and it's hard. It's even more basic than the B.S. about Iraq (although the lies about Iraq are a good place to start--people now know they were lied to on that). They'll get it. Don't worry. They know in their guts that Bush does not represent the majority of Americans.

Another thing about our big sprawling country and national events such as elections, is that there is no Bastille. I mean, what stronghold of government do we storm with our pitchforks? And furthermore, the fascists in power could give a crap what we think. Big demos are nothing to them. They don't care. Truly. They hold power illegitimately, and now have a lock on the election system itself. They are not accountable. So hitting the streets does not seem like an effective action to a lot of people.

And maybe people know this, deep down, too--that a million people in the streets would not affect things at all, and only get heads bashed, and leaders sent off the Guantanamo Bay.

In any case, big demos generally happen only after years and years of education and organizing, and many, many small demos. It took more than a decade with the 1960s civil rights movement (for the big DC march to happen). It took about four years with the Vietnam war (and a decade from the first US interference there). And think of the years of organizing and agitation it took in India before Gandhi came on the scene.

The election fraud of 2004 is a profound scandal--on a scale with slavery and 2nd class citizenship here and in India. It is no wonder that the establishment resists and denies it. It is going to take a long time to fix, and the dramatic part--a major transformation of our democracy--may not even happen in our lifetimes.

We must take the long view. And we must develop compassion for other Americans who are in various states of ignorance and oppression. No sense in getting irritated or angry about it. It's just how it is. But do know this: The injustice is very deep, and people do know it--even with the normal information systems in the country being useless and bad. They may not have all the facts, but they do know something is very wrong. They have been very misinformed, and so, cannot pinpoint the causes (a big one being our fraudulent election system). And they therefore don't know what to DO. They feel powerless. (They voted in droves, and...nothing. Things get worse. And the Democrats are saying Bush won. How are they supposed to figure out that everybody in authority is wrong?)

Disinformation. Widespread feelings of powerlessness. That's what we have to work on.

[marions ghost]

16. agreed--it will be a

gradual awakening of a public that has been deliberately kept in the dark. We're not at the tipping point...yet. Gotta keep putting the evidence out there. As usual Peace Patriot, you speak with great wisdom. At this point, even small numbers turning out matters. The main reason why protests are not effective right now is because of the complicity of the corporate media which does not cover them. So take pix, post pix, post videoclips. Send emails. Overcome the media blackout. I will NEVER forget watching C-Span on inauguration day Jan 05 and seeing all those thousands of hardcore protesters in the frozen streets, yelling their hearts out...while those black armored cars slunk by in all their guilty waxed and polished arrogance. I'm still energized from that scene. This struggle is going to be inch by inch, brick by brick, vote by vote all the way. Am trying to appreciate small accomplishments right now.
Thanks for your post garybeck--giving us a chance to rekindle our own spirits, and hope it helps yours.

[garybeck]

18. thanks n/t

[Bill Bored]

13. It's 1500 DEATHS - not just casualties, and those are just the Americans.

Also, as I've said before, there's no draft now. I think if there were one, we'd see a lot more protesting. And don't forget, there was a lot of disinformation about the connection of Iraq and this war to 9/11 which a lot of people still believe. If it were their kids going, they'd be more informed.

[rigel99]

14. CHEER UP GARY, Here's a Present, 5000 of Us, 70 of Them in FayetteVille NC

Gary... I understand, I cry now daily. But here is a present for you..
about 10 videos and about many pictures of the Ft. Bragg Peace Demonstration..
http://www.countpaperballots.com/peace/peace.htm

In doing election fraud, I've had to challenge the Democracy For America folks in Georgia who love Cathy Cox, I've had to challenge the founder of Air America Jon Swinton, who loves Cathy Cox, I've had to challenge the DNC cause the idiots are spending $500K on Ohio and not one single penny anywhere else (wow, that is major eggs in one basket or like putting all your money in Worldcomm stock),

I have lost friends. I have lost jobs, I have lost money, i Have lost sleep.

it is really not fun.

BUT I HAVE A PRESENT FOR YOU TO THANK-YOU FOR YOUR EFFORTS.. did you know I see my Powerpoint on your website in the hands of Cynthia McKinney Aids, in the hands of congress.. business leaders... other state Fraud experts... you are doing amazing work, keep it up....... Look at this video... look at these pictures. I spent all day putting this online. I was at Ft. Bragg protest in Fayetteville NC. There were 5,000 of us and 70 of them. Really, it was amazing. This 10X factor has been my theory all along. There are 9 of us for every crazy Bush fan.

But most of all watch the video of the amazing little boy just skipping and twirling to the backdrop of thousands (and I mean spine tingling thousands ) of very peaceful, nice people saying NO TO THIS INSANITY.

I want you to know the tide has changed.. it's downhill for Bush. From my personal experiences with lawsuits, etc. we are all getting much much much closer...

keep up the faith.. visit this link!!!!!! it will be slow to load, but be patient... worth the wait.....
http://www.countpaperballots.com/peace/peace.htm

[garybeck]

19. thank you

peace on earth

[Melissa G]

17. Keep the Faith Garybeck! You are a Hero! We bring enough light

and this darkness too shall pass. May it sweep Tom Delay out on its first pass!!The knowledge of election FraWd is growing! Thanks to you and lots of others!

[garybeck]

20. Thanks, you all inspired me to...

I realize now that there was some significant protesting going on. And I also realize that the media is stuffing it away, just like the election.


So after looking at the photos you sent and seeking more, I decided to make this new web page, a collection of protest photos from around the world:

http://www.solarbus.org/election/protest.shtml

I don't have the time to really do it justice, but hopefully some people will find it and realize they're not alone.


If people post more links to photos here I'll add them to the page.

peace on earth
g

[Wilms]

21. That's beautiful

[doublethink]

22. That's Awesome !

And judgeing by the counter on the page it seems quite a few people are allready realizing that they are not alone in this cause. Thank you for the 'justice' you have done by creating this site. I will send everyone I know to it. All the best. :toast:

http://www.solarbus.org/election/protest.shtml

[understandinglife]

23. Super! And, hopefully, the following event(s) will provide reason....

....for many more photos:

www.missionnotaccomplished.us

Expect more info shortly. And, thank you again for all your contributions at Solar Bus! :toast:

Peace.

[Pacifist Patriot]

25. Here is a link to photos of our small gathering...

Unfortunately the photos were taken before the sun went down. Right at sunset we filled the corner. Sixty sounds like a small number of people, but that is double what showed up at the anti-war demonstration just two months ago and remarkable for our conservsative county.

http://www.unitarianminister.org/vigil_mar19.htm

[garybeck]

26. great, I just added you n/t

[Pacifist Patriot]

24. I'm so sorry that was your experience.

The turnout at our vigil on Saturday evening had a better than expected turnout and I'd say motorists who passed by and expressed their opinion were running about 90% in support.

I did a forum Sunday morning about the election and was also floored by a room full of democrats who knew diddly squat about election problems and allegations of fraud. I was encouraged because almost all of the attendees asked me for follow up information, but thoroughly depressed at the level of ignorance in the first place.

[dandrhesse]

27. Share your feelings, sorry not much to uplift but I comiserate with you

The county dem chairman told me the other day that he doesn't believe in all the conspiracy theories, because if he did then everything he is doing is a waste of time and elections will never be perfect.

I was blown away, but that seems to happen on a daily basis.

I also feel that we need to look to alternative methods of protest. We can have hundreds of thousands of people protest like they did in new york at the rnc and we hardly heard a word about it in our local paper. It was presented as no big deal, you would have thought there were 10 people protesting.

New ideas and new innovations. I leave it to the techno wiz kids to think up ideas of how to get the attention of the american people. I do know this theory of physics for every action there is an equal and opposite reaction.

You can't keep pushing and pushing and pushing without a reaction. It is just said that we may have to reach the point of breaking or collapse of our country in order for many to recognize the severity of the situation.

All we can do is keep on keeping on and not give up. Thanks for fighting the good fight.

[garybeck]

28. Velvet Revolution

is a "different" way of protest. I like it.

[marions ghost]

29. yes brainstorm some different ways to reach out...

--somebody in another discussion had the idea of exploring more positive reasons to get people together. The idea came up to do some community things like visiting veterans. Why not try getting people out to hear *political/social* music, poetry, plays or skits, comedians, speakers with inspiring and visionary ideas for the future, etc. Mix it in with the bad news about the hard work that must be done. I think many people are so discouraged and depressed about politics now, especially with so many economic woes. It's just easier psychologically to think "somebody else is going to fix it...that's a job for activists, not me." They are not seeing protests as fitting their lifestyle.

There's a lot of anger under there, too...I know I deeply resent that we have this herculean task of "bringing democracy back to America." I have plenty of other goals in life. We are spoiled in a sense, having been taught that everybody can take democracy for granted, so no need to worry about it. But that is the very lie that is unacceptable, the illusion that must be blown away. Somebody's gotta do it...the stubborn ones. But we may have to find new ways to involve others. Activists cannot allow ourselves to be painted as whiners, obsessives, fanatics and all those negative stereotypes, or nobody will join us. We have to inspire others to action, and make our message more positive and uplifting. It's going to take creativity, community. What I'm saying is don't wait til "it's over" and hope to survive...start surviving better now. Others will be inspired by that. NGU