Nevada: what type TS paper trail?? & why Nev. activists thought K won?

[berniew1]

Nevada had a close election using all touch screen machines but most assumed their election was ok since they had a well publicized "paper trail" with their machines.
What did this "paper trail" consist of and how did it work??

Did the voter get a vote receipt?

Was a copy of all the individual vote receipts collected in some manner in case of audit/recount??

Or was the "paper trail" just in the computer compilers memory?


And What ever happened to the Nevada recount which last I heard was in Court, with someone trying to keep it from happening??

And what were the reasons that Nevada activists thought the evidence showed Kerry won??

And was the problem in getting a recount lack of support from Dem Party or even the Greens(who didn't have enough resources to do everything)??

[berniew1]

1. Here's what Nevada EIRS hotline irregularity reports say about problems th

there.


Nevada Election Problems (Las Vegas & Reno)
(Registration fraud-discarding of Dem registrations, Widespread systematic dirty tricks to mislead minorities about their proper polling place, student voter suppression, some polling sites poorly signed and lighted, machine problems, long lines affecting minorities and students, some late opening and some early closing, DMV registration problems, intimidation at some sites, many registration problems, absentee ballot problems and provisional problems)

Details: http://www.flcv.com/nevada.html


the only active EP systems in Nevada were in Las Vegas & Reno but I think thats where most of the votes are anyway.
Anyone know of reported problems in other counties?

[WillYourVoteBCounted]

2. Nevada uses the "toilet paper" ballot

I have personally seen the type of voting machine and the ballot printer that was used in Nevada.

The "ballot" is printed on a roll smaller than the size of
a toilet paper roll, and narrower. The voter can only view a few inches of this "ballot" at a time. The ballots are not printed on individual slips, they are on a continuous roll. It would be difficult for most people to verify their vote on this tiny roll of paper.

The paper "Ballot" did not prevent undervotes in Nevada:
Nevada's two most populous counties — Clark and Washoe had about 10,000 “undervotes” in the Presidential race. Undervotes are ballots that don’t register a vote for a particular candidate.
Read more:
http://www.rgj.com/news/stories/html/2004/12/12/87428.php?sps=rgj.com&sch=LocalNews&sp1=rgj&sp2=News&sp3=Local+News&sp5=RGJ.com&sp6=news&sp7=local_news

The "Ballot" is useless for recount:

Vendor's technicians are needed in order to recount the paper
ballots on the machines. I derive my information from the "Vote Cobb" website.

The Green Party had planned to do a recount of the Nevada vote.
Please read what they say about doing re-counts on the Sequoia AVC Edge voting machine, the one used in Nevada:

Apparently, using privately owned Sequoia voting machines creates a situation where the Secretary of State needs to bring in outside technicians at great expense in order to recount the ballots of Nevada voters. This creates an unacceptable obstacle for ensuring the integrity of Nevada's elections," added Bobier.
http://www.votecobb.org/press/2004/dec/pr2004-12-02b.php

What good is a paper ballot that cannot be used for audit or recount purposes?

[berniew1]

3. Think you should post this on the VVPAT & VVPB thread

[berniew1]

4. Major problems known about Nevada election that might have swung it

Local activists and the Greens thought there was enough evidence that irregularities in Nevada swung a close election there from Kerry to Bush, and wanted a recount. But apparently the Greens, who have been the most rigorous pursuers of recounts, decided that the S.O.S. had made recount impossible by their choice of election equipment.
Was the system publicized as most fool proof in the country in fact the least so????
Or were the Greens concerns exagerated?

Whatever, there were major problems documented in the Nevada election that might have been enough to swing the election, if pursued. http://www.flcv.com/nevada.html

There was documented major registration fraud in Nevada- as in many states.

Reports some Democratic voter registrations thrown away by GOP hired registration companies.
http://www.klas-tv.com/Global/story.asp?S=2421595&nav=168XRvNe

There was also a major problem regarding Dem registrations through the motorvoter DMV program that didn't make it to the voter rolls.
http://www.flcv.com/nevada.html

As in a lot of states(enough of these in one county(Duval) in 2000 to swing the Florida election)

There was major problem with Dem voters and students who registered and weren't on the rolls.
apparent bias in ID policy & voter intimidation in some precincts

and major problem with misinformtion and misfeasance by poll workers/ officials that swung large number of votes.

And would have swung many more through provisionals except Nevada has a more reasonable provisional policy that states like Florida and Ohio that adopted a policy to go along with misfeaance/dirty tricks to swing large number of minority votes). The Nevada rule allows provisionals to count for federal races as long as the voter is in the correct Congressional district. Much better than Florida, Ohio but still not good enough.

There is no excuse for a voter voting in wrong precinct and its the election officials/system at fault when it happens.
In this election the voters weren't properly informed of their correct precinct, many precincts were changed in minority areas just before the election(in some cases apparently to confuse the voters), many precincts in minority areas were poorly signed and lighted, many of the precincts had too few machines, broken machines, long lines. (all counties have computerized voter rolls and know the correct precinct of all voters- some were encouraged/influenced by officials to vote in the wrong precinct and lose their vote) this is trivial technology so no excuses.

[m.standridge]

6. NV was going to be CLOSE

--ALL the stats, from the 2000 election trends, to more recent election trends, to Hispanic influx, to 2004 pre-election Presidential polls, and even the exit polls.
Bush knew it. Kerry knew it. Clinton was out there, campaigning for Kerry at the last, after recovering from surgery.
It was close, but there is a distinct possibility that John Kerry carried Nevada, if there could have been a sufficient investigation of all the data.
A judge refused to issue voting permits on a statewide scale to voters who'd been defrauded by a bogus "voter registration" drive linked to the GOP. This HAD been done by a lower-level judge, but the upper judge refused to expand his ruling, on grounds there was no overwhelming evidence such voting would turn the state around.
A recount was so expensive, that the Greens couldn't afford it. The Democratic Party could have, though.
But it has sat on its hands on this one.
This, New Mexico and Iowa were also controversial. There were enough Electoral votes to tie up the election in these three. Then there were Ohio and Florida, and maybe Colorado and Arkansas, as well as a lot of glitches in North Carolina.
There was money to spare, but a disconnect set in among the DNC or someone. There seems to me to have been discomfort with the possibility that Kerry could only have been readily demonstrated to have tied or won in the Electoral only, in a shorter-run analysis. And the DNC had had a lot of rhetoric about Electoral-only wins being invalid in past elections, because it seemed the Dems were invulnerable to this happening to them. It COULD have happened this time, at least in the shorter-term.

[Wilms]

5. kick n/t

[berniew1]

7. See any potential significant fraud in this sample of cases?

Malfeasance/potential fraud
033093 11/02/04, 7:38 AM PST Other polling place problem C.W. Woodberry Middle School - 3875 E. Harmon Avenue, Las Vegas NV, Clark County, Nevada Polling place workers not asking voters to sign their signature when checking in. Is this a problem?

027264 11/01/04, 6:45 PM PST Registration-related problem Las vegas, Clark County, Nevada has lived at same address with her Father since house was built - was informed yesterday that other persons are registered at same address

038743 11/02/04, 11:14 AM PST Other Clark County, Nevada Canvasser/caller talked to a voter who said she voted in early voting on November 1 at her local DMV. However, early voting ended in Nevada on Friday. Voter said that there was a table outside the DMV saying "Vote Here" and others were voting too. Canvasser/caller talked to his chain of command and then they went back to the voter's house to talk to her. She wasn't there but they left a note to go to her polling place today and talk to them there.

045796 11/02/04, 3:58 PM PST Other Adcock Elementary School, Clark County, Nevada Poll worker reports that a union had come into the polling place and checked the roles to see which of their members had voted. They then cotacted the voters who had not voted, and some of those people said that they had voted early on Saturday. The poll worker and union are concerned that these people had been defrauded becaused early voting ended in Nevada on Friday.
047855 11/02/04, 4:52 PM PST Other ballot-related problem Las Vegas, Clark County, Nevada Voted by early ballot at advance polling station one week ago - Member of Sierra Club stopped by her house today to inform her and her husband that the voter roles indicated that they had not yet voted.

059949 12/06/04, 7:01 AM PST Other ballot-related problem
Early voting problem CP Squires Elementary, 1312 E. Tonopah Ave, Las Vegas, Clark County, Nevada Voter had pre-voted at another location. Was told he couldn't pre-vote for president. Showed up on election day to vote, was denied because he had already done so. Why was he told he couldn't pre-vote for president?

059996 12/06/04, 8:39 AM PST Other polling place problem Chuck Minker Sports Center, 275 N. Mojave Rd, Las Vegas, Clark County, Nevada Some voters were incorrectly told that they had to vote at a different polling place

060037 12/06/04, 9:40 AM PST Non-English lang. assistance problem Mohave H.S., Las Vegas, Clark County, Nevada Channel 13 called monitor. Hispanic voters are being denied vote and sent away saying no ballots in Spanish. Guy sending people away wasnt currently there during call (coming and going).

060103 12/06/04, 12:39 PM PST Registration-related problem; Other polling place problem Lincol-Edison Elementary, 3010 Berg St., 89030, Las Vegas, Clark County, Nevada Voter was turned away at another polling place because his name was not on the roll. He came to this place, where his not on this roll either, but he was in the computer. His not was found on the list for the original site, and he was allowed to vote there provisionally

060127 12/06/04, 2:06 PM PST Registration-related problem #212, Sunrise Acres Elem., 211 N. 28th Street, Las Vegas, Clark County, Nevada at DMV she checked a box re-registering to vote, but never recieved a registration form. Never registered before.

060101 12/06/04, 12:23 PM PST Registration-related problem Lynch-Edison Elementary 4850 Kell Lane, Las Vegas, Clark County, Nevada Voter registered at the DMV, but never received a registration card in the mail.

060044 12/06/04, 9:44 AM PST Registration-related problem Mabel HOggard Magnet 950 N. Tonopal Dr., Las Vegas, Clark County, Nevada at least 4 individuals who registerd at DMV in Cary, Sohara n Flamingo were not on list. Apparently a company was doing registration and also registration was being done by state employee.


there were lots more of these