Ok...so why isn't Blackwell in trouble yet? Orlando Mayor Buddy Dyer

[KaliTracy]

Surrenders in Ballot Probe (Dyer is a Democrat)

By MIKE SCHNEIDER, Associated Press Writer

"ORLANDO, Fla. - Mayor Buddy Dyer, a judge and two campaign workers surrendered Friday on felony charges that they violated a state law barring payments for the collection of absentee ballots.

"Defense attorneys quickly denied the allegation against Dyer, Judge Alan Apte, Dyer campaign manager Patti Sharp and Ezzie Thomas, a campaign consultant to Dyer and Apte.

"The indictments were issued a day earlier by a grand jury looking at whether Thomas illegally collected absentee ballots in predominantly black neighborhoods for Dyer's and Apte's campaigns before last year's election.

"The successful campaign, which cleared the threshold that triggers a runoff by only 234 votes, has drawn accusations of fraud, and the runner-up is seeking in court to have the results thrown out. "

More....

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=519&ncid=519&e=2&u=/ap/20050311/ap_on_re_us/orlando_mayor

[nytemare]

1. Maybe the repubs opened a jar of worms they didn't want opened here

The allegation is that Florida election law was violated.

I am trying to remember the deal in Ohio. I know there were groups that were being paid for republican voter registrations and tossing the dem ones. Did that happen with ballots as well? So much happened I can't remember.

If they go after Dyer here, they may set a bad precedence for themselves if we get into the federal arena.

:shrug:

[kcass1954]

2. I agree - Bring it on!

If Dyer or anyone from his campaign did anything illegal - and I'm not implying that they did - there are consequences to be paid.

However, the repubs need to remember that this is a double-edged sword. If they want to push the issue, fine; they need to know that in the future we'll be looking doubly hard at their reprehensible behavior. And payback's a bitch!

[nytemare]

5. You said it!

[KaliTracy]

3. all sorts of things happened in Ohio, which Blackwell just shrugged off

and refused to answer -- some things that fall directly in the the path of his Office, which is to oversee elections. If you haven't read it already, the House Judiciary Committee Report Preserving Democracy: What Went Wrong in Ohio gives a pretty eye-opening overview (though it is pretty long -- it includes ALL of the Questions asked of Blackwell, and the reasons why the House Judiciary Committee asked them in the first place...

http://www.house.gov/judiciary_democrats/ohiostatusrept1505.pdf

[nytemare]

4. Thank you, I will check out that link this weekend!

Sounds interesting.

[KaliTracy]

6. I hope you get a chance -- I've given it to several people who thought I

was a little weird in being so agitated about the elections -- I gave it to one person who had a bad experience at her polling place when she voted, and told her to write down her experience and send it to Conyers. Just looking at the table of contents -- shows that there are a lot of things that just weren't "right" that day....





(posted for those who don't know what is in the report)

[nytemare]

10. Much appreciated!

:)

[denese]

7. what Dyer just said on the local news

I live near Orlando and just heard Dyer on the news saying that he certainly isn't the only one who has done this.
He seemed to implicate Glenda Hood as well as Mel Martinez.
This could get interesting.
Denese

[DoYouEverWonder]

11. Yep, Martinez and Hood are in it up to their ears

The same guy who 'collected' ballot for Dyer, Ezzie Thomas, also 'collected' ballots for Martinez and Hood.

However, the real problem here is not that Dems or anyone else is giving away a postage stamp. This 'collecting' votes trick is how Bush won the election.

There are guys like Ezzie Thomas all over FL, if not the country, doing this. Their specialty is elderly illiterate African Americans. They not only put the stamp on the ballot and deliver it for, this is a full service operation. They fill the ballot out for you too. And if you can't read, then you could vote for Satan and you would never know it.

The beauty of this trick is that these are perfectly fine looking ballots. They are from a valid registered voter, at a verified address and it is signature matches the one on file. Makes winning elections so much easier.

[sandnsea]

8. The payment was the friggin' stamp

According to this article. Lots of interesting info in here, the Repubs are just dancing circles around us. It looks like they won Florida because they ran Latino Republicans to give Bush a boost with the Latino vote.

http://forums1.sonymusic.com/eve/ubb.x/a/tpc/f/628107211/m/9361087211

[KaliTracy]

9. This is quite an interesting passage from the article...

"Mr Thomas and his organization, the Orlando Voters' League, has not been accused of paying for votes, but they have acknowledged paying the 37 cent postage for some people's absentee ballots. The allegations seem particularly absurd because such practices are par for the course for both political parties.

"Mr Thomas has previously been hired by Republican candidates to perform exactly the same services he provided for Mr Dyer - without falling foul of the law. Among his past clients is a name with particular resonance: Glenda Hood, Jeb Bush's Secretary of State. {emphasis mine}

"It was Mayor Hood, not Mayor Dyer, who allowed the firefighters union to spend up to $40,000 a year in city funds on political activities. In those days, the firefighters were considered Republican allies. But in early June, disappointed with the White House's failure to stick to pre-election promises, they endorsed Mr Kerry for president in 2004.

"Days later they and their so-called "leave bank" were under investigation by the FDLE. The leave bank was eventually ruled legal and Mayor Dyer asked Florida's attorney general for a ruling to get the FDLE off the firefighters' back."

http://forums1.sonymusic.com/eve/ubb.x/a/tpc/f/628107211/m/9361087211


hmmm....this whole issue could either get swept under the carpet quickly, or, could get interesting....

edit: clarification

[DoYouEverWonder]

12. We need to make it interesting

this whole thing came up a few months ago when Dyer got charged. As usual, the DEMS did nothing about it.

[KaliTracy]

14. I agree. So we need coverage. Blast all media outlets in Florida (and

larger ones that are National) about this sickening double standard.


edit:typo

[berniew1]

21. But the majority of Hispanics voted for Kerry

But they might not have been counted that way.
Lots of touch screen switching in Dade, Broward,Palm Beach, and Hillsboro- where a lot of hispanics are

It looks like Bush won Florida because of touch screen fraud and
suppression of minority vote
http://www.flcv.com/fraudpat.html
http://www.flcv.com/browardo.html
http://www.flcv.com/palmbeao.html
http://www.flcv.com/dadeo.html
etc.

[KaliTracy]

23. but, but, but the MSM say hispanics voted for * because of that religon

thing... they were wrong?

/sarcasm

[Wilms]

24. The MSM has said a lot of things as of late.

All based on skewed data.

America is looking at itself in a house filled with bent mirrors.

It sees and knows not who it is. The very definition of the madness it has become.

[berniew1]

25. Depends on which ones; article is partially correct

There seems to have been a trend in Hispanics towards Dem but there are also some enclaves that are still highly Repub.

[berniew1]

13. The judges in Ohio are Repub and benefited by Blackwell's actions.

Some likely would not have been elected without it I hear. Including the chief justice whose race was tainted by major illegal practices which the Ohio Chamber of Commerce was indicted for. I haven't heard what became of that. Has anyone?

[KaliTracy]

15. Moyers?

[DoYouEverWonder]

16. 60 Minutes?

I hear Dan Rather has a grudge to settle.

[KaliTracy]

17. lol -- just remember to send it to them by Snail Mail -- they don't take

story ideas through e-mail

CBS) 60 Minutes Wednesday

ADDRESS:
60 Minutes Wednesday
524 West 57th St.
New York, NY 10019

PHONE: [phone]

[berniew1]

22. Yes, he's one

There appears to have been similar fraud in his race to that in the Presidential race.
You may remember that the original Arnebeck suit involved both the Presidential and Moyers race, but he had to refile without Moyers.

Since Moyers was hearing the case.

But there were other judges who benefited and were elected in this election as well.

They had a huge amount of untrue last minute accusations against Dem judges in illegal advertising by Chamber of Commerce in a huge TV campaign. C of C was indicted but the Repubs swept the judge races.

[KerryOn]

18. Blackwell is not in trouble yet because...

Ohio is dominated by republicans, including Federal Judges who also cheated. It si also ran by a stupid republican Governor with the enitials B.T.

[Freddie Stubbs]

19. Someone needs to convince a prosecutor in OH that he has committed a crime

Until then, it is all moot.

[berniew1]

20. Difference is concerted effort by Repub activists but not by Dems

Dyer only did what other Repubs in Florida had been doing for years, including U.S. Senator elect Martinez(Rep) who hired the same firm as Dyer. But activists pursued an indictment of Dyer and this hasn't been done for Martinez and other Repubs in Florida who did the same thing. Hired a firm to carry out an automated absentee ballot campaign to get as many ABs as possible from voters who might not vote otherwise. But the votes are real votes and no fraud, just a matter of whether the methods of collecting them meet state law. Someone was paid to collect them.

In Blackwell's case, the problems and illegalities were much more serious and clearly swung an election. Its clear that he violated many laws along the way, and clearly used his public office in a partisan manner to affect the results of the election. But there doesn't seem to have been any concerted effort by Dems to do anything about it.
Of course there is the matter that the judges in Ohio are Repub and many benefited by Blackwell's actions in the elections to gain their position. (and there is an indictment related to illegal actions in the judge races). But of the Chamber of Commerce, not the judges or Blackwell.