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Amaryllis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-10-05 11:18 PM
Original message
How has your life changed since you found out about e-voting fraud?
Edited on Fri Feb-11-05 12:09 AM by Amaryllis
I found out last summer about the e-voting issue, and immediately realized the long term implications, and have not been the same since. I knew the election would be stolen, even though I worked really really hard for Kerry, hoping that just maybe there would be enough of a margin to offset the fraud. I became obsessed with trying to spread the word. I still am. I work on this stuff hours and hours a week.

I was talking to a friend today who is also very active in the election reform movement. We were talking about how obsessed and compelled we are. How we don't exercise like we should. Spend way too many hours on the computer. Are single-mindedly focused. Don't have much else to talk about when we get together with our friends. And there are good things happening in the world, too. If you spend all your time fighting evil, it seems that is all there is, because that is all you see.

It seems so difficult to work on this with any kind of moderation. There must be a way to work on this and maintain some balance in one's life. I need to smell the roses occasionally, and my body wants more exercise. Are others struggling with this?


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merwin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-10-05 11:24 PM
Response to Original message
1. I found DU and haven't left since.
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Blue_In_AK Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-11-05 06:06 PM
Response to Reply #1
31. I hear ya ...
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corbett Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-13-05 02:49 PM
Response to Reply #1
79. Same Here
That's exactly what happened to me. I doubt that I could have survived from 11/3/2004 until 1/20/2005 without it!
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zann725 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-15-05 01:41 AM
Response to Reply #79
111. Same here! And it's become a part of my life.
Sometimes with hard times, good things also come...
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NationalEnquirer Donating Member (571 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-14-05 11:12 AM
Response to Reply #1
103. Amen!
Without DU I would never know what the hell is going on.
A side effect though, I find myself growin more paranoid about things.
I dont think this is good, but I do think that scepticism is.
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Us vs Them Donating Member (725 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-10-05 11:24 PM
Response to Original message
2. Since the election
I've found DU, and it has entirely changed my life. Here's to pledging as much as I can to make a difference. Don't worry, you'll get enough exercise running from the Gestapo.

Viva la resistance.
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AmBlue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-10-05 11:41 PM
Response to Reply #2
3. LOL.... It's all so awful, sometime you just gotta laugh
But Amaryllis, please let me know what can be done. PM me if you like. I petition, I read, I e-mail my e-friends and I want to do more. Don't be discouraged. My ass has also widened more than I care to think about since November 2 and I think it might soon just decide to merge with the chair at my desk!! lol
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Amaryllis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-10-05 11:55 PM
Response to Reply #3
4. I am working with a group in my city. Other than that, there are always
Edited on Thu Feb-10-05 11:58 PM by Amaryllis
plenty of action items on this forum. I think right now one of the most important is the Shelley issue. See those threads. There are a lot of us kind of looking for more direction; it was more clear before Jan. 6. We each need to find out what is going on in our states. I think this is crucial. It really helps if you can connect with others in your state. Our county dem organization had formed a work group for election reform. You might check out your county dem group and see what you can do to get something organized.
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Untouchedalarm Donating Member (76 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-12-05 12:43 AM
Response to Reply #2
59. lol
I am late reading this. I needed a good laugh. thanks Oh! I agree.
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skids Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-11-05 12:03 AM
Response to Original message
5. Maybe if we got hooked up locally...
...with fellow election activists and went out for a run, or game of basketball, etc.

That way you can still talk about it *while* you excercise. It would be like our own version of the "prayer breakfast" except we wouldn't be eating greasy bacon and plotting to hasten the apocolypse.

Me, I got a double whammy. I relied on my job for excercise mostly, and have zero ability to convince myself to do it for its own sake. I quit my job before the election (new bosses, total idiots, just couldn't stomach them getting fat off my work) and this whole thing has provided me with more than enough excuse to sit on my ass and not bother filing applications.

Plus I used to leave my cigarettes at home so I only really smoked 10 hours out of the day before. Now they are always there. Overall it has been pretty taxing, but I've kept my weight down by starving myself occasionally.



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Land Shark Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-11-05 12:04 PM
Response to Reply #5
15. Skids, I believe i'm local to you and i'm game... n/t
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KaliTracy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-11-05 12:09 AM
Response to Original message
6. I found DU after the election.... I didn't know about fraud then, just
Edited on Fri Feb-11-05 12:10 AM by KaliTracy
about something not "being right" -- a gut feeling if you will. The fact that I live in Ohio, which seemed to condone disenfranchisement of voters completely set me off.

There are times when I promise to go to bed on time, then the next thing I know, it's 2 hours later. I don't get a lot of sleep because of that. I try to hone in on specific things -- and send letters when I can.

Check out this thread for a letter I sent to the Cincinnati Enquirer last night. Please. There is a link to another letter that was published on-line last week, and if people respond to it, maybe that would wake the media up (no one really responds to their new letter-posting/blog-type feature, though one person did so far...)

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=203x321918

my goal is to wake the media up -- I can't tell you how many letters I've written about glossed over articles about the election and its problems -- or about the Tone of reporters on the radio when they talk about "Kerry supporters=sore losers"

It absolutely scares me that reporters are either afraid to touch this stuff, or don't think that it's a big deal. I mean, anyone with half a brain can see that if 99% of the "problems" favored * then we have a problem. I'm still trying to understand how anyone can discount that fact. I'm still trying to understand what really happened to our country, and what will happen to it if we don't say anything now.

edited: typo
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Amaryllis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-14-05 01:45 AM
Response to Reply #6
97. Either way is alarming, whether they are afraid or simply don't think it's
a big deal. I watch what MSM covers (Scott Peterson, etc.) and often think of the fall of the Roman empire (give them bread and circuses, and the masses will be happy.)
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proudbluestater Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-11-05 12:16 AM
Response to Original message
7. I was totally stunned in the days following the election.
Edited on Fri Feb-11-05 12:19 AM by proudbluestater
I followed closely the election forum and waited and wrote letters until January 6th when Boxer stood up and others joined her. Like you, I'm sure, I was outraged, upset, saddened deeply.

But after that date, well, I had to let go of it all.

I don't want to come up preachy, but there are words to help you. One is that silly Debbie Reynolds song, "que sera, sera." Whatever will be, will be.

The other is "Let go, Let God."

Sorry for waxing philosophical on you. I don't know your religion or your beliefs and it's none of my business, but if you believe in a higher power, you might want to consider turning this all over to him/her to take care of. I really believe that much of what happens in life is preordained. So you do what you can and pray to God/Allah, whomever your choice/ and let him handle it.

Now, don't get me wrong. I am still active. I send email through Sojourner's, Moveon., Speakspeak, etc., but I had to leave the election stuff in God's hands. The deck there seems so utterly stacked against us, I just had to surrender that issue.

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Amaryllis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-11-05 01:32 AM
Response to Reply #7
10. You are right on about the higher power thing and I absolutely agree. I
do okay when I remember that...thanks for the reminder. Keep doing what you can and surrender the rest... the basic serenity prayer.
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Imagevision Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-12-05 11:11 PM
Response to Reply #7
72. If Diebold machines aren'tremoved? why won't it happen again?
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marions ghost Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-15-05 11:12 AM
Response to Reply #7
114. Election Reforms R Us
Understandably no one person can do it all and you must pace yourself, but the devil will be all too happy if we surrender the election issues. :evilgrin:
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KerryReallyWon Donating Member (297 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-11-05 12:31 AM
Response to Original message
8. I found out too but worked for kerry. i am in florida and I am
totally consumed. My legs hurt from sitting. I can't work on anything else! YOU ARE NOT ALONE!!!

I was a staffer for Bill McBride as well and now know we did not really win the primary, Janet Reno did, and they fixed it for her.

I must say I feel as sick about winning when we really lost, as I do about losing when we really won! I am on the winning and losing side and they are the same. Wrong, painful, and it must be FIXED!

Take care i am happy to know I am not alone, bad health habits, etc. You are not alone.
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Vadem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-11-05 12:58 AM
Response to Original message
9. Well, I cuss a hell of a lot more!!!!! .....n/t
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Amaryllis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-11-05 01:32 AM
Response to Reply #9
11. That made me laugh!
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eomer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-11-05 07:08 AM
Response to Original message
12. "We're going to have to do an intervention on Dad".
That's what one of my kids told my wife one day in early December. One of those half-joking, half-serious comments that really sums things up.

More recently I've pulled myself away from the computer more often. Also they (wife and kids) have come to accept a lot of the claims I was making.

Still not getting any exercise. I've been blaming that on the holidays and the weather but the truth is that the election is mostly to blame. I think it's time to stop with the excuses and get out there. Of course, that doesn't mean I'm giving up on election issues. Just looking for a balance I can sustain over the long haul.


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Amaryllis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-11-05 04:20 PM
Response to Reply #12
22. That's the thing, is we have to be able to sustain over the long haul. Not
burn out.
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John Q. Citizen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-11-05 10:43 AM
Response to Original message
13. This all consuming quality of grassroots organizing
has been noted by many reformers/activists working on a whole array of issues and campaigns.

We need to be careful to find a balance or we run the risk of burning ourselves out and that does nothing for achieving change.
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Amaryllis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-01-05 12:41 AM
Response to Reply #13
132. Fighting evil can definitely burn one out. I am finding it takes a very
conscious effort to build in balance; schedule in exercise, meditation, watch the tenedency to think that if I don't jump on every single thing, the world is going fall apart
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abbiehoff Donating Member (356 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-11-05 10:59 AM
Response to Original message
14. I've always been kind of a laid back person
but since the election, I've become obsessive. I have trouble doing the most ordinary things, because I can hardly think about anything else. I remember talking with my brother last summer about the black box voting machines, and knowing that the shrubbery would certainly try to steal the election, expressed my fears that no one would ever find out. My brother said, "They won't be able to steal it because the exit polls will show that the vote count is wrong." Well, he was right. The exit polls do show that the vote count was wrong, but somehow logic has escaped almost everyone, and they did get away with it. I still can't believe that we saw it coming, and it happened anyway.
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Applepie Donating Member (143 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-11-05 08:08 PM
Response to Reply #14
44. Me too
I have always been very easy going. Since Nov 2 am in a continuous mood swing. I am getting better but still have some real dark days. I am hoping that when the weather gets better so will I. I don't spend as much time at DU as I did.I continue to email Representatives to let them know my feelings. I get encouraged when I listen to the Dems speak out against this administration.
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Land Shark Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-11-05 12:14 PM
Response to Original message
16. What Would Jefferson Do?
WWJD: What would Jefferson do? Probably get some exercise with one of his slaves and then get back, refreshed and recharged, to the cutting edge of freedom and democracy in his day. LUckily we get to build on top of a little more progress than that, but there's still lots of promise for the future.

I think ya'll SHOULD be working at this like you are, given what we believe. BUT, one should also realize that exercise and some time away with family, etc., make us much more efficient, lucid and effective. That is, "time away" is time away, and yet it is Not time away because it relates back to the work at hand.

Think thusly: even if I were slavemaster I would still want slaves to have some breaks, meals, etc., or else morale and health would ultimately fail.

Work hard, play hard, die young. (Someone said) But in the end, life seems to go by especially fast because our minds, on rewind, skip over all the routine parts and only recall those special moments of victory, meaning, friendship, struggle or triumph that can be experienced in both family and movements. So even in the worst case scenario of dying young, you've actually lived more, and have more to flash before your eyes in those final seconds.

Carpe diem.
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jdog Donating Member (569 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-11-05 12:24 PM
Response to Original message
17. Ditto to everyone!
And I am definitely having the same problem of finding my proper focus. I am involved locally with a couple groups, but I find meetings excrutiatingly slow...and then I worry that there are all these people working through all this minutae that will only be overridden by some Repug bureaucrat along the way and it will all be for nothing. UGH!

I wish we had a leader who was a bit more radical to call us to action outside the cyberworld. I've emailed, written letters, made phone calls, and sent money for the causes (Boxer, ACLU, Ohio lawyers) but I'm willing to move to action in other ways. Letter writing only goes so far, and there HAS to be something more dramatic we can do in an organized fashion in order to make a dramatic impact.

What is it??

(and I too confess to no exercise, moving to the next size up)
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Amaryllis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-11-05 04:24 PM
Response to Reply #17
23. I think Dean will be that more radical leader. Thank god he knows about
election fraud.
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Helga Scow Stern Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-12-05 12:33 AM
Response to Reply #17
57. Getting groups together to go to legislative offices?
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Amaryllis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-14-05 01:49 AM
Response to Reply #57
98. Doin that! My group gets to do a presentation on the 18th at a forum
on election reform with our SOS and two US reps. I am helping write the presentation. Our soundbites are gonna be:
We must stop oursourcing our votes! We must stop privatizing our votes! (that one thanks to inspiration from Land Shark)

Do you like it?
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dogindia Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-11-05 12:39 PM
Response to Original message
18. I too have stayed glued to this forum. There are some rocky
roads ahead I think not just with the political.

The earth is fast running out of oil and the entire world (with developing cos.) runs on it. Our culture is now totally mediated....in that it is riding on this surface of consumerism and media entertainment. It is not that we just won't be able to move around so freely there are grave predictions of the possibility that we won't be able to eat.

Not many know how to grow food. Not many want to do that kind of labor.

Plus the weather with global warming will be extreme.

Many species could die

Man just simply is too focused on his own comfort and cares little about the ecosystem and all the creatures.

So there are great things to try to do.

love to DUers
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Bill Bored Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-13-05 02:03 PM
Response to Reply #18
77. Right. The election might have helped fix this.
Kerry had a plan to wean us off the oil. I think Howard Dean was ahead of him on this, but Kerry did pick up on it.

Meanwhile, what we should be doing is using the power of the marketplace to buy green energy, whether our local utilities offer this option or not.

There are Green Certificates that anyone can purchase for a small fee, or a large one, every month. They force more green power onto the grid, whether the customers want it or not because they're not the ones paying for it. I don't even think you have to be an American to participate, do you? Imagine if the rest of the world just paid us to get rid of our fossil fuel habit! But meanwhile even if only we did it, it would "fuel" the demand for renewable energy, forcing construction of windfarms, hydro and so on to meet demand. The nuke plants could eventually close and so could some of the others that use non-renewable fuels.

The remaining oil and gas could be used for transportation, heating and agriculture until better solutions are found.

Hydrogen should only be made using renewables too. To separate hydrogen from hydrocarbons (such as natural gas) is worse than making an egg-white omelet! It's like getting half the energy for twice the price! I really think this is going to be the next Bush scam if they are allowed to stay in power. The hydrogen hype is just getting started.

The point of this post is that we don't have to wait for elections to take action to save the environment. It just takes a bit of cash, although in many cases, the cost is minimal. See if you can replace the power you buy from the grid with renewable energy purchased from your local utility or a competitor. The cost is almost the same in some markets! If not, consider buying Green Certificates. And tell your friends!

In other words, vote with your wallet!
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dogindia Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-13-05 02:41 PM
Response to Reply #77
78. green energy
I did not know about Green Certificates. Do you have any links to this.

DU has a Peak Oil group which I just discovered.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topics&forum=266

Also I belong to a great energy/resources email group
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/energyresources/

lots of great folks and ideas. A lot to read and keep up with

I am wondering if DU might be interested in a group titled Green Energy and Sustainability or something like that. Many topics could be included: architecture, energy....new kinds of economies and transitional systems as well as food production. I will send adminstrators a note about it. When I asked about it I used word Peak Oil and they sent me to the group above.

I am particularly concerned with not just energy and economy but with fostering human concern and stewardship of nature and saving species as well as preserving our culture but in a sustainable way. Much work to help nature and observe wildlife and plant communities could replace some mindless entertainment and needless moving around.

I am just starting a project called Sustainable Land Development. At this point is is just a simple pdf description booklet but am working on preliminary site plans and trying to raise funds to hire a young architect to help me flush the idea out.

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Bill Bored Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-13-05 05:34 PM
Response to Reply #78
83. Here's a link
Edited on Sun Feb-13-05 05:45 PM by Bill Bored
<http://www.eere.energy.gov/consumerinfo/buyelectricity/green_certificates.html>

If you're in NYC, you might be able to buy green energy from Con Ed Solutions, or another deregulated energy service company (ESCO). It's 25% wind/75% small hydro (supposedly fish-friendly). Check out <http://poweryourway.com/>.

While deregulation has kind of an Enron-like ring to it, I don't think it's all bad as long as choices such as green power are available. They even have independent auditors who make sure the energy they sell is as green as advertised. Imagine how it would change our fuel consumption patterns if everyone chose to buy green power!

Now, given the choice between putting up your own solar array or windmill, or outsourcing your green power production to a public utility, you have to admit the outsourcing approach makes some sense. For one thing, there's no capital investment on the part of the consumer. Of course some of us are so into this stuff, we'd do both!

I've been so preoccupied with the election fraud stuff, that I too haven't kept up with the energy situation. But buying Green Power is almost a no-brainer. It's just not too well-publicized! Gee, I wonder why? ;)

On edit, let me say that since 9/11, I have become obsessed with renewable energy! This election fraud stuff has really been a big but necessary diversion. Check out GaryBeck's site too:
<http://solarbus.org>.
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dogindia Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-13-05 06:58 PM
Response to Reply #83
87. will explore
Edited on Sun Feb-13-05 07:53 PM by dogindia
Govenor Pataki has been doing a green energy ad. But it has not been clear. Perhaps this is what he is speaking of. I did not write the phone number down but the site is askpsc.com. I think.

Upon edit here is the link to NYstate Green energy site

http://www.askpsc.com/campaigns/?action=viewCampaign&id=1033

and coned green page

http://www.conedsolutions.com/gp/default.asp
http://www.conedsolutions.com/business/greenpower/default/
http://www.conedsolutions.com/residential/greenpowermain.htm
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Bill Bored Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-13-05 08:30 PM
Response to Reply #87
89. You got it!
I'm not here to advertise anything, but Con Ed Solutions charges only .5 cents per kwh more for Green than for Regular power. This is a mere pittance! Might be 5-10 cents a day. For those who live in an area where the utility doesn't offer Green Power, or for those who want to buy more then they actually use, the Green Certificates can be purchased. They basically pay for the difference between Green and Regular power in the amount purchased. So it might be 1 cent per kwh, or whatever.

When you think about this, it's amazing! If people don't want to pay 5% or 10% more for Green Power, other people can do it for them. Imagine what would happen if everyone, or a substantial part of the population did this? No more nukes and much less fossil fuel dependence.

Has this never been mentioned in the other groups where you hang out?

I like those energy labels in NY too. They look like nutrition labels, stating which sources the power comes from.
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garybeck Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-11-05 12:42 PM
Response to Original message
19. ditto. one of my fears is
that i'm getting so focused on this one issue, I can't do anything else. I don't have time to work on environmental issues, I can't watch the news. I don't even know what happened with the Iraq election. I feel like everything else is assumed to be going bad and I almost can't handle watching it all unfold. Trying to fix the election problems, raise awareness, bring criminals to justice, etc is the one thing I can hold on to or I may lost it completely. But I do worry about the other issues that I'm not having time for.
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Zan_of_Texas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-11-05 04:01 PM
Response to Reply #19
20. Great thread. I was just thinking about this, this morning.
I have been working, pretty much non-stop, for two years on this.

48 months, or even 12 months ago, most of what I told people sounded like Greek to them. I had to explain what Diebold was, etc.

Now, there is a definite ill-at-ease feeling that people already have, before I open my mouth. They know something is wrong, but they may not have the facts in any sort of clear, ordered way in their minds.

I think that election reform (I wish it had a sexier name) can be the way that the left, and the non-nutty members of the right, can join together, and it can be the fulcrum to try to really get some traction. For the whole movement/movements. I do not worry about the environment, or the war much, because without democracy, the rest is just PR.

Right now the powers that be are serving a TINY number of people, to the detriment of the entire rest of the planet.

So, I'm broke, like most of the people who have spent the past two years working on this (including some of your national leaders whose names I won't mention because I don't want to call them out -- but, I would suggest that those of you who still have jobs set up a monthly or annual budget to send a bit each month to someone or some org. who has been working full-time on this for free -- you know, like churches ask for).

I spend all my time on it. I have little else to offer my friends in conversation. Luckily, my dog gets me out for a daily walk. But, he's pretty bored with the whole issue! When I start talking about VVPB, he goes to the next room! <G>

Anyway, we live in interesting times. Each of us is only one person. I have already seen what one person can do, when they work together with lots of other "one person"s.

Remember that tsunami that leveled buildings, killed people, and overturned trains? It was just drops of water, folks. Drops of water that got together and did the same thing, all at the same time.

We can be the visionary tsunami for good.

But, go take a walk, too. We need everybody!
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Amaryllis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-11-05 04:33 PM
Response to Reply #20
25. Our name: Visionary Tsunami for Good :)
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Amaryllis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-11-05 04:32 PM
Response to Reply #19
24. I mostly don't even watch or listen to anything on the new, even AAR,
because it is all so depressing to know this awful stuff is being done by someone who not only wasn't elected but also cheated the country out of a president who would have done good things.

In my car I keep uplifting tapes of a spiritual or positive nature and listen to that instead of AAR. There are other forces at work other than evil! I forget that pretty fast if I only put my attention on is the negative, plus I depress my immune system and get less effective.

I think it's important that we find ways to uplift each other wtih inspiring words as well as commiserate.
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garybeck Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-11-05 04:51 PM
Response to Reply #24
27. me too, but is that good?
that we are getting too narrowly focused? does this weaken support for other important issues?
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Amaryllis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-11-05 06:30 PM
Response to Reply #27
35. There are a whole lot of people working on those other issues who don't
have a clue that this election was a computer generated coup. If we don't deal with THIS issue, none of the rest will matter anyway. In 2006 they will get more house and senate seats and the fraud will happen in state races as well, and forget all the other issues at that point.
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garybeck Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-16-05 01:59 PM
Response to Reply #35
123. agreed, but I feel bad letting my other projects slide
the Solar Bus is supposed to be an educational vehicle that teaches people about renewable energy. If I can't find time to go around to some schools this spring because I'm too buried in election issues, something won't seem right.

i guess I can always cut back more on sleep. heck, 3 hours a night is too much anyway.
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Helga Scow Stern Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-12-05 12:43 AM
Response to Reply #27
58. Working on these issues gives us traction for other issues,
Edited on Sat Feb-12-05 12:43 AM by Ojai Person
once we make some progress here. The fact is that once they start stealing elections, there is little else that can be done until we get the vote working again. They have no reason to compromise.
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Wilms Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-11-05 04:12 PM
Response to Original message
21. I feel great!!
Since finding DU, I realized that:

1. Indeed, the election was stolen.

2. I'm not crazy or alone with my 'crazy' notions.

3. Less than half of the voters are crazy.

4. The internet (or one of them, anyhow) might save the democracy.

5. My dog's (Wilms) need for walks will save me from the internet (or one of them, anyhow).
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keepthemhonest Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-11-05 04:45 PM
Response to Reply #21
26. thank goodness for your dog
but when you say the internet(or one of them), does this mean that there is more than one internet? Sorry if that is a dumb question to you, not very internet savvy.
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abbiehoff Donating Member (356 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-11-05 04:57 PM
Response to Reply #26
29. I believe that * refers to the internet as "the internets" - nt
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Wilms Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-11-05 04:57 PM
Response to Reply #26
30. During the debates...
C+ (Bush) referred to the "internets", and a lot of folks caught that and laughed.

To be fair, however, I think that there may be a 'military only' web. If so, we could forgive *, for that one, anyhow.

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keepthemhonest Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-12-05 07:36 PM
Response to Reply #30
66. Ok thanks abbieoff and wilms for the
unfo. we can let * slide I guess on that one
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dandrhesse Donating Member (500 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-11-05 04:56 PM
Response to Original message
28. I have been busy for 3-4 hours a day at least
I started an email, letter writing, telephoning campaign and we have been doing the full court press since about a week after the election. My group started with a core of volunteers from the Kerry campaign and then picked up a vets for peace group from our area. We have about 30-40 people. Almost everyday I forward action items and I swing between feeling overwhelmed and feeling hopeful. Until the vote situation is fixed it really doesn't matter what the message is or how we attempt to deliver it.

From my perspective the right made a very grave error in judgement. They didn't count on the backlash that is now occurring. I am 43 years old and a mom. When you piss off the middle aged moms in this country you better get out of their way, because there is now stopping us! One mom who lost a child in a drunk driving accident started M.A.D.D. and look what that organization has accomplished. I have great faith in the women in this country that are mad as hell and aren't gonna take it anymore. My husband is mad too, but right now he relies on me to keep him informed. So that's how my life has changed.
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blue4barb Donating Member (367 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-11-05 06:17 PM
Response to Original message
32. I'm going to make a chart/schedule for myself to allow only a certain
amount of time per day for immersion into the election fraud issue and plotting how the shrub will be brought down. I haven't decided yet how much time to allow, but I do need some kind of intervention as my house looks pretty bad these days. I find I'm not even keeping up with paying my bills like I used to pre-November 3. I just can't keep off the computer. I hate watching the msm news now, I only trust the "liberal" websites. I also check news daily from aljezeera and other foreign sites as I like to know the rest of the world sees shrubco for who they really are.

I'm married to someone who likes the shrub so it can get tough around here at times. DU, you're giving me strength!

(I wrote my first LTTE a couple weeks ago and it was published!)

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Amaryllis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-11-05 06:57 PM
Response to Reply #32
40. Do you know about this great fraud article for Shrub fans?

Best fraud article I've seen for repubs, dem non-believers, and dems who just don't know:

Empathy Training for Compassionate Conservatives: Why the Democrats Are Still Whining About the Election (and Why Maybe We Should Be, Too)

Chuck Herrin, CISSP, CISA, MCSE, CEH

American, Voter, Republican In That Order

www.chuckherrin.com

Author's note: **As of right now, 11-23-2004, there is no conclusive evidence that massive voter fraud took place, but there is overwhelming evidence that the weaknesses in our voting system could have allowed it. I hope it didn't happen, but the simple fact is that whether it did or not, our election systems, particularly those using DREs, appear to have been designed specifically to allow fraud, rather than prevent it. Who put these systems in place, and what is the real current state of e-voting? Read on, gentle surfer, and I'll do my best to tell you.**

I was talking to a dear friend of mine yesterday, and he asked me what I had been up to. "This voting machine security thing" I told him. "It looks really bad. I can't believe how insecure these systems are and how easy they would be to Hack."

He chuckled and said to me, very sincerely, "Well, just as long as they go Republican, right? Heh, heh."

There was an awkward moment of silence as I processed that. Now, this is no raving Neo-Conservative that I'm talking to here. I love him, but he probably couldn't pick Karl Rove out of an Evil Genius Lineup with Dr. Evil, Max Scorpio, and that Steve guy from the Linux cartoon (www.ubergeek.tv/switchlinux). I'm visualizing it now - "Suspect number 3, please turn to the right and say 'Mwuahh-haa-haa.....'"

More:
http://www.chuckherrin.com/ConservativeEmpathy.htm

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blue4barb Donating Member (367 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-11-05 09:27 PM
Response to Reply #40
48. Wow! Great article for talking points to give to non-believers.
Thanks, Amaryllis. I'm printing up Chuck's article.
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Amaryllis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-11-05 09:58 PM
Response to Reply #48
50. Isn't it great? Only fraud article I've seen I could give my repub brother
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justice4all Donating Member (35 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-12-05 07:44 PM
Response to Reply #40
67. Your mileage may vary
I thought the article and the entire web site was great so I sent the link to my redneck "get those welfare cheats" brother. His reply was that Herrin was "too long-winded to be credible". My bro's way of saying, "I'm not ready to have my comfy bubble busted yet."

I wonder what it will take?
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Amaryllis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-13-05 07:00 PM
Response to Reply #67
88. Well...I think Herrin is great for those who really want the truth. For
those who don't, probably nothing will shake them up until or unless they experience the effects of Bushco personally.
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Amaryllis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-11-05 08:24 PM
Response to Reply #32
45. An online 12-step group for election fraud obsessives? :)
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Verve Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-13-05 01:35 AM
Response to Reply #45
74. Step #12- Shrub is impeached! (thanks to our hard work on steps 1-11)
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Stevepol Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-11-05 06:21 PM
Response to Original message
33. I was obsessed for a long time, still am to some degree.
I found out following the 02 mid-term election. I was amazed at the GA results and started googling, and it didn't take me 15 minutes to find out about the Diebold machines and to get enough of an awareness that I, like many others I guess, could see what was happening. I knew if nothing changed, the 04 elections would be just like GA 02: the pre-election polls would give it to the Dem, the exit polls would give it to the Dem, but then amazingly the late results would come in and the Repubs would win.

I started sending emails to an editor at the local paper I thought might be sympathetic (he acknowledged and seemed to agree but he's done nothing, tho maybe he will in the future after a couple more stolen elections), I called the election commissioner, sent letters, talked to profs at the university where I work, sent them downloads of statistics, stories re BBV from Bev Harris, gave away her book free to 20 people.

Nothing really worked, yet I know there's a very slow groundswell coming. People eventually will have to wake up. It just can't continue to go like this. I know these people on the nat'l level are intelligent people: Bill Moyers, Dan Rather, etc. Why doesn't just one of them start a crusade? To me, it's the greates peril the country has ever been in. People with other jobs and interests shouldn't have to spend so much time doing this. Where are the people who by all rights should always have their ear to the ground, who should react immediately to this. The MSM are in a deep sleep. I feel very depressed about it a lot of times.
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Amaryllis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-11-05 06:37 PM
Response to Reply #33
37. When I despair, I remember that all through history the way of truth and
When I despair, I remember that all through history the way of truth and love has always won. There have been tyrants and murderers and for a time they seem invincible but in the end, they always fall - think of it, ALWAYS. - Gandhi

What happened to you happened to me, only not until last summer. Found Ronnie Dugger's article when I googled Diebold, and like you, took about fifteen minutes for my whole world to change. The implications hit me like a ...tsunami.



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Jo March Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-11-05 06:29 PM
Response to Original message
34. This issue has near consumed me
I worked ferverishly in the weeks following the elections. I stay on the computer way too much, even now.

Instead of focusing on finding a job, I'm working on getting VOTE off the ground. Hubby feels like an election widow.

I do find that my voice is quavering less when I speak to people about the election fraud. :) That's a good thing.

I'm broke. I'm tired. I'm disillusioned. I'm angry. Somehow, though, I can't give up.

I just wish that I could go back and ignore all of this or be like those who believe that there wasn't any election fraud. Then I could sleep at night without my mind racing at the implications of what the election fraud means for this country.

I force myself to craft. It helps me to take some time away and clear my mind.

I find that naps are helping tremendously.

I pray a lot.

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Amaryllis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-11-05 06:32 PM
Response to Reply #34
36. I LOVE YOU ARNIE! Look at my signature:
When I despair, I remember that all through history the way of truth and love has always won. There have been tyrants and murderers and for a time they seem invincible but in the end, they always fall - think of it, ALWAYS. - Gandhi
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Jo March Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-13-05 05:56 PM
Response to Reply #36
84. That quote is perfect.
I keep that in my head. That and the Beatitudes:

Blessed are the poor in spirit: for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.
Blessed are they that mourn: for they shall be comforted.
Blessed are the meek: for they shall inherit the earth.
Blessed are they which do hunger and thirst after righteousness: for
they shall be filled.
Blessed are the merciful: for they shall obtain mercy.
Blessed are the pure in heart: for they shall see God.
Blessed are the peacemakers: for they shall be called the children of
God.
Blessed are they which are persecuted for righteousness' sake: for
theirs is the kingdom of heaven.
Blessed are ye, when men shall revile you, and persecute you, and
shall say all manner of evil against you falsely, for my sake.
(Matt 5:3-11 KJV).
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Stevepol Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-11-05 06:45 PM
Response to Original message
38. An interesting Sufi story I think of sometimes in this connection.
A man was told by his guru that in a couple weeks the water would stop flowing for awhile and when it started back up it would be different, and if you drank it you'd go crazy. He told his disciple to store all the good water he could so that when that happened he could have good water to drink.

It all happened as predicted. The water stopped, then when it started again and paople drank it, they went crazy.

After a long time, the man grew very lonely because he couldn't talk to anybody. Everybody had gone crazy. He decided to drink the bad water.

When he did, he became crazy like everybody else, and all the people thought he was a crazy man who had suddenly become sane.

After awhile you begin to wonder if you're actually just crazy or existing in a parellel universe.
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Amaryllis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-11-05 07:00 PM
Response to Reply #38
41. It is a parallel universe. It's like a sci fi novel. Those who know and
those who don't. I look around my world, and think nothing has really changed out there that I can see visibly, and yet everything has changed inside my head.
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jdog Donating Member (569 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-12-05 06:47 PM
Response to Reply #41
65. Wow! That says it! n/t
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Zan_of_Texas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-11-05 11:41 PM
Response to Reply #38
54. In response to your Sufi story, here's Gandhi....
An error does not become truth by reason of multiplied propagation, nor does truth become error because nobody sees it.

QUOTES FROM M.K. GANDHI
http://www.carolmoore.net/articles/gandhi-quotes.html

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~



Remember, sending Galileo to the inquisition did NOT make the earth flat.
--Zan
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deacon2 Donating Member (396 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-11-05 06:52 PM
Response to Original message
39. Profoundly
I have always trended toward "cynicism" but with a leavening humor. For the first time in my 47 years, I feel the jaws of outright despair nipping at my heels. I have passed on all data (considerable) that I have on this issue to everyone I know. I have written numerous letters to the LA Times - four published this year about the Bush junta, but NONE on this topic- as well as every Senator I thought might listen. The response has been, to say the least, underwhelming. I find that I am completely immune to all entreaties to "gear up for 2006." This strikes me as some kind of sick joke, really. Gear up for what? To be trounced again by this cabal of thieves and hypocrites? I don't think so. Why do so many Americans, especially Democrats, fail to realize what has occured? Further, how can they ignore the obvious truth that it is the very essence of insanity to continue to do the same thing over and over again and expect a different result. I spend way too much time on this topic. The final thing that put me over, however, was the Alberto Gonzales debacle. Because of the charade of the 2004 Election, we now have a torture advocate as the highest "legal" representative of the land. And the future promises more of the same. In a nutshell, we have all been witness to the death of our democracy. For this patriot, it doesn't get any more depressing than that.
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Amaryllis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-11-05 07:21 PM
Response to Reply #39
42. I have hope because of Dean; he knows we won't win again if we don't deal
with this. Every time I get one of those emails talking about how we have to reframe the Dem message so we can win next time, I email back and say if you don't get behind e-voting reform, you will never win again.
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Amaryllis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-14-05 01:53 AM
Response to Reply #39
99. I'm thinking that if we all keep at it, we will hit the hundredth monkey
any day now!
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bush_is_wacko Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-11-05 07:48 PM
Response to Original message
43. I'm like you, my ENTIRE extended family has been talking about this for
Edited on Fri Feb-11-05 07:49 PM by bush_is_wacko
years. We knew the election would likely be stolen, but, like you, thought if we worked hard enough we could over-ride the fraud. I think many of us realized it was unlikely before we voted. It seemed we were all resigned BEFORE Nov. 2.

As far as exercise goes, well, My job provides it in droves. I lift heavy equipment and run around like a chicken with my head cut off, but I DO need more family time/down time. I do see the good in the world. My job insures that, but to keep up with things I rarely take more than a day or two off from the computer when I'm at home!

I have to say though, despite my kids obnoxious behavior (they don't really understand that I'm doing this for THEIR future) I am still inclined to spend as much time at this as I possibly can. I am seeing REAL results lately. Not like in past years where MOST people didn't really believe in the possibility of stolen elections. I think our devotion is making a HUGE difference!

Take a couple days off! Come back and review the daily update threads after you have caught your breath. I am finding they really are quite comprehensive, but word of warning, two days away from here and spent with my family only makes me want to fight harder! I just can't stand to think what the world could be like for them if these DELUSIONAL individuals keep taking away EVERYTHING this country was founded on! I am envisioning my parents, my husbands mother, AND my children all living under the same roof and STILL not being able to pay the damn bills or get proper medical care,or...

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New Earth Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-11-05 08:34 PM
Response to Original message
46. it's gotten easier
Edited on Fri Feb-11-05 08:34 PM by Faye
since i started working again - i dont' really think about anything at work other than what i'm doing.

up until then, it was 24/7 election fraud focus for me, especially being on DU so much - fortunately (in a way) i was unemployed for the last month or two so i've been able to spend more time here and on the issue.

i will admit, yes - i have gone to the protests, the rallies, etc. - i have emailed a few Senators or signed a few petitions - but i am not very active like that as i should be. you guys are something else with your letters, faxes, emails, etc.....sometimes i feel more useful by just being silly and keeping people in good spirits. i think because of that it hasn't been as stressful for me as you explain.

i don't even HAVE in anyone in real life (meaning not online) that i can talk to election fraud about (at least no one that cares about it like i do).
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European Socialist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-11-05 09:12 PM
Response to Original message
47. Dean and Dems
I'm willing to give Dean a chance on election fraud, and let's hope the Dems can hang tough Social Security. But, Blue State separation may be the only way to save progressive government- because election geography keeps getting worse.
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SarahB Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-11-05 09:35 PM
Response to Original message
49. I found out about it a couple of years ago.
It pretty much shook my foundation as to what I believed this country to be. I wasn't naive enough to view there wasn't inevitable corruption on some level, but the mass level that is so blatant and difficult to change is well, kind of overwhelming. :(
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New Earth Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-11-05 10:03 PM
Response to Original message
51. to really answer the question
which i don't think i did last time - this whole thing has really proved to me how fucked up TV media (especially) is these days, and how disgusting it is that sleeping sheep don't look to any other sources for their news and believe what they see and hear without looking into it or thinking twice. other than Keith Olbermann occasionally, i refuse to watch ANY TV news - if anyone in my house tries to put it on, i tell them 'turn it the fuck off, i am not listening to the lies'.
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Bill Bored Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-11-05 10:50 PM
Response to Original message
52. I feel like our founding fathers and mothers must have felt.
Edited on Fri Feb-11-05 10:54 PM by Bill Bored
And this is why we keep doing what we're doing.

I think that we're at a crossroads now. The case has been made. Jan 6 actually happened! HAVA funding isn't going to be around much longer. We will either regain some semblance of our democracy again soon through legislation (maybe by 2006), or it may be lost for a very long time, possibly forever unless some whistle blower comes forward with irrefutable evidence of fraud (assuming the MSM will actually print or air it and someone will actually prosecute it) or some clever attorneys such as Land Shark succeed in a number of states.

Too much computer time is no good! Get out each day and feel the elements, wherever you are and whatever they may be!

Think of the next generation! Grade school kids get this stuff if you explain it to them! Do you want them to live under tyranny? Of course not, and they don't want to either!

And don't forget your boring old state legislature! They have the power to change this. Here in NY, we're making some progress. Other states will too.

Stop spending so much time on the exit polls and take some action! Learn election law, talk to your state reps, read pending legislation. Suggest the necessary changes they may not have even thought of!

If you're not happy with the machines or the ballots, vote absentee this year! If enough people do it, maybe someone will get the message.

Dean may be helpful too. This is progress. The media are already replaying the scream tape! That's a good sign! (Stupid bastards.)

The following is pretty much in the public domain all over the web, so do not delete this post please. Don't freak out about the 2nd Amendment stuff at the end. As Dems we don't want to repeal that anyway do we?:

Find peace, and in case you're wondering, I've been stressed out about this stuff since 2000!

Here are some inspirational words:


The Price They Paid

by
Garry Hildreth
Erie, Pennsylvania

Have you ever wondered what happened to the 56 men who signed the Declaration of Independence?

FIVE SIGNERS were captured by the British as traitors, and tortured before they died. Twelve had their homes ransacked and burned. Two lost their sons in the Revolutionary Army, another had two sons captured. Nine of the 56 fought and died from wounds or the hardships of the Revolutionary War.

What kind of men were they? Twenty-four were lawyers and jurists. Eleven were merchants, nine were farmers and large plantation owners, men of means, well educated. But they signed the Declaration of Independence knowing full well that the penalty would be death if they were captured.

Carter Braxton of Virginia, a wealthy planter and trader, saw his ships swept away from the seas by the British navy. He sold his home and properties to pay his debts, and died in rags.

Thomas McKean was so hounded by the British that he was forced to move his family almost constantly. He served in the Congress without pay, and his family was kept in hiding. His possessions were taken from him, and poverty was his reward.

Vandals or soldiers or both, looted the properties of Ellery, Clymer, Hall, Walton, Gwinnett, Heyward, Rutledge and Middleton.

At the Battle of Yorktown, Thomas Nelson, Jr. noted the British General Cornwallis had taken over the Nelson home for his headquarters. The owner quietly urged General George Washington to open fire, which was done. The home was destroyed, and Nelson died bankrupt.

Francis Lewis had his home and properties destroyed. The enemy jailed his wife and she died within a few months.

John Hart was driven from his wife's bedside as she was dying. Their 13 children fled for their lives. His fields and grist mill were laid waste. For more than a year he lived in forest and caves, returning home to find his wife dead, his children vanished. A few weeks later he died from exhaustion and a broken heart. Morris and Livingston suffered similar fates.

Such were the stories and sacrifices of the American Revolution. These were not wild-eyed, rabble-rousing ruffians. They were soft-spoken men of means and education. They had security, but they valued liberty more. Standing tall, straight and unwavering, they pledged: "For the support of this declaration, with a firm reliance on the protection of the Divine Providence, we mutually pledge to each other our lives, our fortunes, and our sacred honor."

They gave you and I a free and independent America. The
history books never told you a lot of what happened in the
revolutionary war. We didn't just fight the British. We were British
subjects
at that time and we fought our own government! Perhaps
you can now see why our founding fathers had a hatred for standing
armies, and allowed through the second amendment for everyone to
be armed.

Frankly, I can't read this without crying. Some of us take
these liberties so much for granted. We shouldn't.
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Amaryllis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-11-05 11:33 PM
Response to Reply #52
53. Wow! Thanks for what happened to our founding fathers. And,
as far as your recommendation to take action, I think every single person who has posted on this forum IS taking action; a lot of action.
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Bill Bored Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-12-05 01:54 AM
Response to Reply #53
63. I agree, we are taking action. I just think we spend too much time
on certain things that may not be the most productive -- myself included!

It's been a difficult 3 months!
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demodonkey Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-11-05 11:41 PM
Response to Original message
55. Got out today & protested the war with a great group of new Green friends,
Edited on Fri Feb-11-05 11:54 PM by demodonkey

standing on the same corner in my County Seat where only four short months ago I stood, full of hope, wildly waving a Kerry sign in numerous Dem rallies.

Today was freezing cold, and windy, and we all danced around and waved our signs with similar abandon... against the war, yes, but also as a hedge against the February cold. This particular group of Greens was not entirely up to speed about the Ohio Recount story or about the Election Issues, so while we smiled and waved and cheered at passing cars, I was able to spread the word just a little further about the crisis America's Democracy faces in our polling places.

Four months ago? I was a long-time pollworker who, yes, was concerned about the coming E-voting problems but had NO idea where this path would lead. I knew nothing of the Green Party, or David Cobb, or even the Progressive Democrats of America. Dems were Dems. Greens were... ecology nuts? Nader? And Kerry was hopefully going to win.

It's four months later, and in those sixteen weeks I have met literally dozens of new friends both on and offline -- deeply committed, inspiring people who aren't afraid to stand tall for what they believe in. I've been through a historical but frustrating Recount in Ohio, and a jubilant march down Pennsylvania Avenue and up Capitol Hill. I've learned new respect for the Greens and other third parties, and learned new ways of looking at my own Democratic party where I have voted since I turned 18. I've been to conferences in several cities and conference calls on my living room phone. I've taught and learned and blogged and demonstrated and faxed and maybe even prayed.

So this afternoon, there I was, out in the cold but with a wonderful new group of friends. Tonight I'm alone at my computer screen, but not really alone, because I am with another wonderful group of friends. Tomorrow we all may face the revival of our democracy, or we may face years of oppression. The struggle -- and the joy of facing what comes together -- are ours today.
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helderheid Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-11-05 11:46 PM
Response to Original message
56. you described me
only I found out about the machines a couple years ago. Worked to educate people on them and told people that so long as we get rid of the machines, we'd win in a landslide. Then Holt's bill died and a part of me did too. Still, I thought maybe if enough of us voted, it could counteract the problem. How naive and hopeful. I had no idea how far they'd go, right down to vote padding in safe states.

I am now a woman obsessed, and yet I have moments of fear going down this road given the power of those in power have. Some days I wish I could just be a mom and wife and every day person without trying to change everything.
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WillYourVoteBCounted Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-12-05 01:19 AM
Response to Original message
60. it hit me very hard
when I found out about the electronic voting ruse, I searched for the national groups, then I sought out a group in my state.
There was no group in my state, so I set one up on yahoo, back in Jan of 2004. Here we are in Feb 2005, have about 134 members.

Set up a website early this year, nothing to brag about, but a virtual encyclopedia of NC election problems and issues.

I have made hundreds if not thousands of phone calls to officials, activists, political groups, reporters, etc. Many times more emails.

It seems to me that this issue is one that precludes us from having any impact on the other issues that mean so much to me.

I think working at the state level is important, because we already went through the frustration of working at the federal level beginning with Rush Holt's bill from 2003.

Our biggest opposition is some of our election officials, and The Election Center, who provides them with the fodder to spread their fabrications.

We need more help in NC, but so do other states.
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Land Shark Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-12-05 01:21 AM
Response to Original message
61. Energy Conservation Tip
When fighting fire with water or any kind of extinguisher, point at the base (source) of the flames, not the flames themselves.

If not succeeding in fighting fire, problem is either not enough resources, wrong firefighting tools (grease fire, perhaps?) or the strategy is wrong, such as not attacking the source of the fire.
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Amaryllis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-13-05 06:57 PM
Response to Reply #61
86. I.E. lawsuit against secret vote counting rather than legislation that is
bandaids on festering wounds?
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banishbush Donating Member (29 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-12-05 01:34 AM
Response to Original message
62. Gloom, despair, and agony on me...
Deep dark depression excessive misery. you know the song.

Wow has my life changed!!! I was not even politically active before this past sssselection. The high stakes of war brought me into the arena and the blatant deception in my face will not allow me to let this go.

This awakening has left everything else in a void. It is the most surreal experience I have ever known. It shakes the foundation of your beliefs and requires serious eternalizing. I think this is why the general public cannot deal with it. They honestly cant handle the truth, but they are not completely oblivious like many here believe. The reaction of the general public(and media), or lack of, is probably the hardest lesson I have learned from all of this. How stupid I was to think that, at the very least, the majority of Americans cherished democracy. Thank God for all of you guys here, you all make it easier to deal with.

The roller coaster ride up until Jan. 6th was almost too much to bear. I am a full time student in college and my grades suffered drastically as a result of making this a priority. I had no choice, it screamed for attention.

Since then, I have been trying to access the corruption of our government. You know, how bad is it really? Well, its worse than I ever could have imagined. At this point I feel helpless and border on hopelessness.
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dandrhesse Donating Member (500 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-12-05 09:44 AM
Response to Reply #62
64. don't get sucked into despair - that's why we are here ;)
everytime I have felt really down I have prayed for something to break or a good post about something to lift my spirits and I have never been let down.

I got into this much the same way as you. One of my daughter's who is 14 told my mom recently "I know this voting stuff is reaaalllly important, but mom doesn't smile and laugh the way she used to."

It makes me feel bad but at the same time, she is right about it being really important. There is no other issue to me. The Dems can talk all they want about the message, or who to run but it doesn't matter, it's all secondary.

I personally believe there is a much bigger plan to deal with this whole situation but we can not and will not be let in on it until it breaks in a huge way. Somedays I feel that time is close and other days I think I'm delusional. All I can do is keep on keeping on and never give up hope.

Only you can surrender your hope and your belief that truth and the power of the people will prevail and our adversaries would like nothing better than to see you waving a white flag.

So buck up and keep hope alive!
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banishbush Donating Member (29 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-12-05 11:08 PM
Response to Reply #64
71. Thanks for the encouragement
Your words are uplifting, and mabey I was being dramatic when I used the word "despair." I just can't help but wonder what it will be like for my kid when he grows up. I can't stop thinking about all of the Americans who gave their life for freedom and democracy. The sheep are many and out number us! For now anyway.

:crazy:
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Amaryllis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-14-05 01:57 AM
Response to Reply #71
100. Not overly dramatic. I think all of us feel despair at times. It's so
inportant to have people we can turn to who will remind us that there is always hope, there are forces of good as well as forces of evil, miracles do happen, and we are getting stronger as a grassroots community. And we have Dean as DNC chair now!
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earth mom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-12-05 10:11 PM
Response to Original message
68. I've been glued to DU ever since I found out about the 2004 election fraud
Edited on Sat Feb-12-05 10:19 PM by TheGoldenRule
I've been apolitical for most of my life and it's only been the past year that I've awakened to the whole hideous reality of * and his never ending tsunami of evil, lies and deception. A year ago, for the most part, I was just a 43 year old mom, who believed in happy endings and that the majority of people in this country were good, kind and humane. Then I started reading another message board and stumbled into the nightmare that is the * parallel universe that I never knew existed and wish with all my heart did not exist! Every day that * is in his stolen office brings new horrors which have taken over my life in a big way. Though for the most part I'm glad that I'm now armed with the truth, I do mourn the loss of my innocence since it's been replaced with feelings of vulnerability, sadness, fear and absolute fury at what * and the rethugs have wrought. Now the only way I feel better is knowing that I CAN AND WILL continue to fight them and expose them every chance I get.

p.s. And I also know beyond a doubt that I need a vacation from this shit! LOL!
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Laurab Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-12-05 11:02 PM
Response to Reply #68
70. Pretty much my story, too
I'm a few years older, but aside from that, you sound quite like me. Completely apolitical up until *, started reading a few books about his administration, read a few more, and I'm still reading. Shocking, scary stuff it is, too. I too thought people were basically good, and certainly nothing like THIS could ever happen in my country.

I then got involved with the Kerry campaign, became obsessed with getting the nutcase out of the WH, and after the election, I KNEW something wasn't right - I just didn't know what it was until I found DU. I sometimes come on "just for a minute" to check out what's new, and end up leaving 3 hours later, not knowing where the time went.

DU has really been the only light in the darkness for me, as far as the future of our country. I can take some action, feel like I'm doing something useful, and keep up with what they're trying to pull over on us next.

I just don't see any way a person cannot be somewhat obsessed if they are exposed to what is really going on in this country. I too feel better just feeling like I can make at least a little bit of difference, and for that, I thank DU. Where else could I find all this information in one place, and where else could I have found that so many other people felt the same way I did? Certainly not the "liberal media". I am so glad I stumbled into this place.
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earth mom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-13-05 04:58 PM
Response to Reply #70
81. Glad to know there are others like me discovering the truth
in spite of the MSM bias and all the lies they attempt to feed the public on a daily basis. I agree with you that DU is the greatest...I'm so glad I stumbled in here too...like what took me so long?! And I do the exact same thing...click on a thread or two...then 3 hours later...opps it's dinner time already?! LOL!

The best part is that we are all in it together-ready to fight! :grouphug:
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MelissaB Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-13-05 09:01 PM
Response to Reply #70
91. Ditto
Both stories fit me. I'm 39 with 2 children under 10. I had never been involved in politics until I started waking up and discovering what * is doing to our country and us. I say "discovering" because there is so much to learn and so much to read.

I spend many hours a day on this forum. If I'm not reading and searching for information, I feel guilty. If I spend the hours reading and researching the way I want to, I feel guilty because I am missing time with my family. Guilt! Guilt! Guilt! I need to make myself take a break so that I don't crash and burn. I'm just too afraid that I will miss something...
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helderheid Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-13-05 02:51 PM
Response to Reply #68
80. My God that's me
I feel like I'm in the Matrix (and I could definitely use a vacation!!!)
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earth mom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-13-05 05:02 PM
Response to Reply #80
82. The Matrix sounds about right, LOL!
At least we're all in it together and willing to fight! :grouphug:
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Land Shark Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-12-05 10:20 PM
Response to Original message
69. If you've gotten this far, and want to read something hopeful:
DREs (secret vote counting) to be ejected from democracy, sooner rather than later:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=203x318785

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Amaryllis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-13-05 12:43 PM
Response to Reply #69
75. This gives me more hope than anyting I've seen that we may actually
be able to take back our country! Thank you, Land Shark. You are an inspiration.
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blue4barb Donating Member (367 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-12-05 11:35 PM
Response to Original message
73. Another way my life has changed since Nov. 3 is that I am trying
to buy blue (which isn't easy). I never even thought about this before the e-fraud, I just wasn't very involved with politics.
There's no turning my back on this now or ever again.

A good site I found:

http://www.buyblue.org

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AnotherMother4Peace Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-13-05 01:17 PM
Response to Original message
76. I'm experiencing the 5 stages of grief
Denial - I would only watch the cooking & travel channels
Anger - I would take peeks at the news channel, but would end up ranting at the T.V. (that's when my son introduced me to DU)
Bargaining - I started praying to my God to tell me what I can do to help our great nation
Depression - I'm still struggling with this one, but surfing helps
Acceptance - NO - NEVER
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MelissaB Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-13-05 08:49 PM
Response to Reply #76
90. Welcome, AnotherMother4Peace!
:hi:

I love you name! It happens to fit me, too.
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AmBlue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-15-05 02:33 AM
Response to Reply #90
112. Me three!!
I have two children, ages 7 and 4. I worry about the world they will have to grow up in. Mom is pretty boring these days and hard to pry away from the computer.
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Amaryllis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-17-05 12:54 AM
Response to Reply #112
129. I'm a teacher. I look at my kids and think about their futures...
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Griffy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-13-05 06:35 PM
Response to Original message
85. I amSO with you... in fact, Im making it my job! at www.left.org
We must win this.. we know it and it drives us forward.. so day we will all take a collective break, when bush and his lies are exposed!
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lonestarnot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-13-05 09:42 PM
Response to Original message
92. Turned me into a RADICAL fucking liberal! n/t
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MelissaB Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-13-05 10:12 PM
Response to Reply #92
93. I'll drink to that!
The more I read the more liberal I become!
:toast:
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AnotherMother4Peace Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-13-05 10:36 PM
Response to Reply #93
94. We might be more mainstream then we think
When my conservative mother joined the "AnotherMother4Peace" antiwar group when my brother was in Viet Nam, we teased her about becoming a "radical". My draft age sons are now making the same tease to me because of my support of peace & justice groups. I believe more & more people are beginning to realize George Bush & his group are not being truthful to anyone.

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Amaryllis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-14-05 01:42 AM
Response to Reply #93
96. I have been thinking a lot about what makes someone a liberal or
conservative. I am a fiscal conservative. Shrub certainly is not. Does that make me more conservative than Shrub?

I believe every vote should count. Shrub does not. Does that make me a liberal? Does that make him a conservative?

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lonestarnot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-14-05 09:20 AM
Response to Reply #96
101. Not a damn thing wrong with being a lib, so why are you worried about
the label? :think:
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Amaryllis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-14-05 10:39 AM
Response to Reply #101
102. Not worried in the least. Just interested in the way the terms are used.
I am a fiscal conservative yet I am considered a liberal.Bush is supposedly a conservative yet he is the farthest thing from fiscally conservative we'd ever had in a president.
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lonestarnot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-14-05 07:10 PM
Response to Reply #102
106. words and labels are powerful n/t
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AmBlue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-15-05 02:41 AM
Response to Reply #102
113. I am so offended by the distortion of the words....
"liberal" and "conservative." It's just another deception. Another way to pull the wool over the eyes of the sheep.
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AnotherMother4Peace Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-15-05 08:12 PM
Response to Reply #113
116. They are right wing extremists hiding behind
a Conservative label, or maybe they're corporate pigs. Conservatives don't bankrupt their own nation. They don't tweak the Constitution to invade personal relationships. There is nothing conservative about George Bush and his group. At the same time, they spit out the word "Liberal" like it's an obscenity. They are masters at word play and talking points. But ya know, I think Dean is going to be able to start cutting through all their crap, and we should all unite behind him to defeat these phonies, and take back our nation. Oops - this is off topic from the original tread, but it sure needs to be examined.

Amblue - this is a pretty cool place, don't ya think?
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AmBlue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-17-05 09:53 AM
Response to Reply #116
130. Yes, DU is a breath of fresh air
I have been really down since the election, but the holidays had me so busy I didn't have time to process it all. I devoted sooooo much time, money and energy over the past year to making ABSOLUTELY SURE that Bush would not be reelected, I was lucky to remember to pick my kids up from school! The monumental grief and shock over the election finally had a chance to coldcock me after Christmas, that is, after the tsunami left me in shock.

BUT, thanks to DU and Howard Dean getting the DNC slot, I'm really beginning to feel hopeful and ready to work again. I'm also starting (for the first time) to think that the BushCo house of cards might be starting to come down...

BTW, nice to see the "mom contingency" is well represented here!

P.S. Why do so many here refer to our embryo-in-chief as "*"??
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rigel99 Donating Member (621 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-14-05 01:23 AM
Response to Original message
95. Lost Jobs, Friends, Money over all this crap...

and I'm not a happy camper.. used to fly around the world making 6 digits now I just analyze Diebold DRE tape receipts trying to make sense out of garbage and trash we now call our votes.. it's sick sick sick...

it's ok, if you are feeling stressed, remember, you are doing good things, and try now and then to give yourself a break from it all... helps to get massages, baths... even a nice dinner with someone who will not entice you to discuss the exit polls, Shelley's resignation, or Diebold's future contract wins..

overall, great thread, and thanks for starting.. I needed to vent this... I also have work parties, every sunday at 2pm, so I can commiserate in person with other stress puppies in the election world... it helps a little to just vent all this now and then in person.....

sending you lots of exercise energy, amaryllis.... your posts keep me riveted... keep up the good work....
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emcguffie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-14-05 03:55 PM
Response to Original message
104. in many ways --
I've known that it could happen for a long time. Seeing it happen in this election -- I came to DU the next day. And I no longer read the NY Times, cancelled my subscription, don't watch the news. No more Hardball. Only Keith. No more CNN. I've finally seen West Wing. (I used to be a news addict.)

Instead of reading the awful Times on the train, I knit. So, I have knitted my dog a sweater -- that she really needed -- and my daughter. After not knitting for 20 years.
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Kip Humphrey Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-14-05 06:56 PM
Response to Original message
105. I used to be just a 52 year old IT consultant...
Then, while awaiting spinal surgery, I surfed Blackboxvoting.com...
Then, I joined blackboxvoting.org...
And VerifiedVoting.org...
And researched the evoting machine I and my family would vote on...
And discovered the exploit running on Hart Intercivic eSlate machines...
And watched my family vote on rigged eSlates...
And started 51CapitalMarch.com...

My life has been turned upside down...

And I will not stop until we have our democracy back!
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Amaryllis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-14-05 09:26 PM
Response to Reply #105
108. Hi Kip!
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Peace Patriot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-14-05 09:09 PM
Response to Original message
107. Here's my suggestion. Prior to my involvement in 2004 Election Fraud, I..
Edited on Mon Feb-14-05 09:14 PM by Peace Patriot
...had developed painful, crippling sciatica--because of a sedentary life style--and had to take measures to repair myself. One of the permanent fixtures of my life then became a weekly two hour yoga class. I never miss it, because I know that my health and mobility are at risk. But I don't do any yoga at home. I just go to the class. Every week. Two hours of slow stretches and breathing exercises, once a week. (It cured me, by the way.) And I've wondered why I don't do yoga at home. I could. But I don't. And I think it's the other way around--it's that I do yoga BECAUSE there is a class. A scheduled event. An orderly thing. It's a small free class--so I'm motivated to go, just to keep the class going. Sometimes just a few people show up. But I think that my religious attendance is mainly just because it's a class. I have to go! I've always been a good student!

And maybe I'm about to generalize too much here, but I have a feeling that people who are into election fraud--especially the most obsessive types--are very orderly people, at least orderly minded. They--we--want things to work the way they are supposed to. We just want things to work right, to be fair, to be lawful and orderly. To be the way we thought they were. And when they are NOT working right--especially something so fundamental as voting--we get this adrenalin rush of anger, first off, but then a slow burning determination to set things right. To put the world back in order.

I also noticed upthread that some people have dogs to walk--and that gives them a break from working on this issue at the computer. Dogs need walking. The orderly universe of dog life. You have to do it. So you DO it.

If this fits you (the need for order), then what I would suggest as a break--as a means of maintaining your physical and mental health--is SOMETHING YOU HAVE TO DO. Sign up for a scheduled exercise class--or something comparable. (And paying for it might help--since you may lose money if you don't do it. Not true in my case, though--but I have a definite health problem to deal with, and would likely pay with a relapse if I didn't go.)

Just a thought. If that speaks to you--that the DISORDER of the Bush regime gets to you, and impels you to try to re-establish order in our country--then establish a bit of compelled order in your life, something you HAVE TO DO.

I've just read this whole thread at once. And there are many things I want to respond to, but for now I will just respond to something Stevepol wrote upthread, that this--2004 election fraud and loss of our right to vote--is the greatest peril our country has ever been in.

I completely agree with this. I also agree with Amaryllis, GaryBeck and others, that there IS no other issue. If we do not restore our right to vote, then we have almost no power to affect any other issue. It is fundamental. And the loss of it is catastrophic.

I do not think it is the death of our democracy, though. Our democracy is alive as long as WE are alive, believing in it, and trying to restore it. And it is such a grand idea, on the whole, that it will always be reborn again out the ashes of human experience.

This peril to our democracy did not happen overnight. You can trace it back at least to the 1970s. I remember reading a 3-part New Yorker article at that time, that laid out corporate plans to destroy the sovereignty of national governments (beginning with ours)--as collective democratic powers with the right to regulate corporations. Don't remember author or details. But it stayed with me.

This peril has been a long time coming. Direct private corporate control over our elections is the end of a long game plan, not the beginning. And that is a very important thing to know. Because it means, not that they are a vigorous new fascist force of some kind, but that they are spent, and desperate, and almost panicky to grab every little last bit of power, money and resources. And their system cannot last. It has no core values--unlike, say, the Church in the Middle Ages, or the British schoolboy bonds that built the British Empire, or even the dream of the late Republic that kept Rome going for so long. Our corporate state has tried to tack on Christian fundamentalism--but it is a poor fit--and I'm certain that the grass roots of Christian fundamentalism will rebel, finally. Many are sincere people who ultimately won't be able to stomach the hypocrisy--and the screeching contradictions.

So Corporate is left with..what? Maybe, temporarily, "fighting terrorism"--but that is NOT what they are about, and they couldn't care less about it, except in so far as it affects profits and resources. What they are really about is acquisition, and that really cannot hold peoples' loyalties. It is is a thin belief system, at best.

Corporate is hollow, empty, spinning its greedy wheels. Very powerful, yes. And extremely dangerous. But not a thing that soldiers in Iraq want to die for--as more and more of them are realizing. And it's not a thing that the people of this country care about--global corporations. I mean, who cares? Why would anyone be loyal to them? They've turned out to be shits--outsourcing all the jobs, ruining communities, destroying the environment, and now out to loot Social Security to prop up the stock market. Business and honest trade are one thing--but these monstrosities can't even hold the loyalty of their CEOs and vice presidents, let alone the lower workers, or those suffering the impacts of their behavior.

I think their power is very brittle--as is the power of their puppet Bush and the BushCons around him. I think some of the BushCons are motivated by the PNAC, Israel and those kinds of ideas (the "New" American Empire--as if that were new!), and a few are into the Christian Armageddon thing. But the core of it all is just raw, ugly, greedy, bloodthirsty financial power--and that is not very inspiring, and it makes most people--especially its direct victims--into rebels.

We WILL overthrow them, peacefully, and probably through a methodical and relentless campaign to recover our right to vote.

And I mean WE. For those of you harming your health (and I'm preaching to myself here, too), get over the idea that it's all up to you. That is the democracy lesson here, I think. This is a DEMOCRACY movement--the greatest one of all, from what I know--and it will be a collective realization, and a collective effort, or it will fail. They can knock off our leaders, but they cannot knock off our collective will as a democratic people. Each one of us must do our part. But that's all. Our part.

So don't drive yourself to distraction--and ill health--thinking that only you can save your country. For one thing, you cannot--all alone. And for another, if you go around in a messianic mode, you will be ill fit to educate and mobilize others. Many of those whom you are trying to convince are obviously and literally brainwashed, and they need to be treated gently and encouraged to think for themselves. And above all they need to be empowered--not bludgeoned with facts.

And if you find yourself obsessing at the computer--as I sometimes do--just for companionship, for not feeling so lonely in this Matrix delusion that the corporate media has spun around us, that's okay. We NEED that companionship. And we are blest to have it here.




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Amaryllis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-14-05 09:31 PM
Response to Reply #107
109. That was brilliant. You are so right about the need for order, and your
point about scheduling in things you HAVE to do is excellent. I have some of those, but not enough. I am going to do more. Thanks so much for this very thoughtful post. I could respond to many of the things you said but I don't have time because I have to leave for an meeting with my group to plan a presentation on election reform!
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BeFree Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-14-05 11:03 PM
Response to Reply #109
110. Peace Patriot, bless you
I too have read this thread all the way through and am empathizing with all the hurt and delusion others feel. Then I read your words about democracy.

'Tis true... it will change because all of us are working toward that change. It is not up to each individual to effect nationwide change, that would be impossible. But together, each doing a little here and a little there, we will force the needed change.

It has been quite the experience, sharing DU with all of you, especially since the election. I had thought, before this thread, that most of you on this forum were long time dedicated activists. The surprise that most of you are new to this game does inspire this old soul with the idea that all the new souls coming on to help will ensure a certain victory and help this ill democracy to a cure.

Thank you all. We shall overcome!
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NJCher Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-16-05 04:02 AM
Response to Reply #107
119. Bravo, Peace Patriot
Much to think about in your post. I am especially intrigued by the article you read in the 70s and your thoughts on the emptiness of the corporate movement.


Cher
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marions ghost Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-15-05 02:23 PM
Response to Original message
115. Everything has changed. Radically.
I tend to see things in psychological terms and believe in channelling anger into work. I was glad to find this support group at DU early on, and so many obviously intelligent people calling this election what it was--a "computer-generated coup." The group gives focus and moral support, and is an excellent source of information. Yes, I'm often tired physically, but more and more I'm mentally and spiritually energized by this group effort. There is still deep resentment though. I resent the fact that we are now compelled to work so hard to regain our fundamental right to vote in this country that is touted as such a shining example of "democracy." The Big Lie of that is just intolerable. Since Nov 2 I have to do this for my own sanity. I want to live in a better world than this. No more putting up and shutting up.

I saw a case of blatant vote tampering and suppression over 10 years ago, and I also saw then that there was NO authority, NO effective law, NO realistic recourse to fight it. So the anger about that has been sleeping like a dormant volcano. But I am still amazed at the new heights of election theft in the America of the 21st c. I did not foresee the Supreme Court deciding a presidential election, widespread voter suppression, or the proliferation of auditless voting systems.

There are so many other issues and causes and worthy places to spend time than on election investigation and reform. All of us have better things to do, I'm sure. But somebody has to do this job. Anger about this extreme abuse of power keeps me going in this direction. I interpret what has happened in these recent elections in terms of mass manipulation. We are being systematically abused. I tend to become indignant and ready to fight when abused, and I suspect others here are the same way. :mad: I wouldn't tolerate victimization in a social or family relationship and I won't tolerate it in a governmental relationship.

It's all about Trust. If you can't even trust that your vote is counted accurately and fairly, then what or who can you trust? We are fighting at the most basic level to achieve some form of real Democracy in America, and in so doing, we may create a more ethical society. I want to live in a country where white collar criminals are not running everything and stealing the people blind.

Everything has changed in my life now.
Everything is in the context of whether to knuckle under to a grasping and insane regime, or to help create a bold new vision of a better world. I'm already living in that better world. Feels good.
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Fly by night Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-15-05 10:18 PM
Response to Original message
117. I'd give anything for a big bag of naive innocence right about now.
Like a lot of us, I feel like I fell down the rabbit hole on November 3. But it is so heartening to have fallen into the company of many more old-fashioned and new-skilled Americans who share our singlemindedness to solve the crime of the century.

Nothing about my life is the same. But then nothing about my views of my country, of the media, of the "process", of who my neighbors and countrypeople are, has stayed the same either.

We must be eternally grateful to Al Gore for inventing the "internets" and to George Bush for not being able to understand it. Now if we can match our DU mind power, energy and inter-connectedness with an equal amount of feet on the ground in our communities, our cohorts, our spheres of influence, our state and national legislatures -- we can take our country back.

But a big, fragrant bag of naivete still sounds nice sometimes. Maybe I can con some off of my family and friends who still don't get it, whose eyes get duller as the pods under their beds shrivel up. If we keep working, we will find an antidote to the Kool-Aid that somehow we were spared from drinking but that has stained the lips of so many around us. Keep working, folks, there's no one left but us.

Fortunately, we are the ones that we (and the country) have been waiting for.
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Amaryllis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-16-05 12:19 AM
Response to Reply #117
118. I often am struck by the irony that if anything saves our butts it will be
the internet. It's technology that got us into this fix in the first place, and technology that will help us get out of it, if we can. I comfort myself with that thought when I see the parallels to Hitler's rise to power; they didn't have the internet to organize and communicate.
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NJCher Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-16-05 12:47 PM
Response to Reply #118
121. good thought
that is somewhat comforting, especially when reading about the efforts of the people on this thread.


Cher
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Fly by night Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-16-05 01:29 PM
Response to Reply #118
122. Kick n/t
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Amaryllis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-19-05 01:35 AM
Response to Reply #117
131. I think about naive innocence sometimes, too. Sometimes I wish I
didn't know. But I wouldn't like thinking that all those people actually voted Bush back in. That might even be worse. This way I have less faith in the system but much more faith in my fellow Americans. And I've met some wonderful people working on election reform.
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NationalEnquirer Donating Member (571 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-16-05 12:42 PM
Response to Original message
120. You have to set aside time.
I set aside a couple of hours of my work day to do these things.
Then thats it.
I force myself off the computer.
No offense, but alot of us need to get out more, because if we let our health and lives to get ruined by this, then THEY WILL HAVE WON!
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skids Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-16-05 02:10 PM
Response to Reply #120
124. Man, I never should have linked this article.

Everyone seems to get sucked into this (great) thread, and forget how they (most likely, judging from how it pops back up when I kick the other one) got here. Which means they don't sign on for "body, mind and ballot."

So now that you're done reading this thread (or almost) go back and sign up. A movement full of introverted people with weak cardiovascular systems doesn't get too far.

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emcguffie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-16-05 02:58 PM
Response to Reply #124
125. the one positive thing --
-- is that this, like the civil rights movement, the anti-war movement, the sexual revolution, all that that happened before, is energizing, inspiring, emboldening. Of course, in a desperate way, but think how desperate things were in the past for women, for African Americans in the south, for gays.

Yes, we're going way backwards, but it is waking people up. And shaking people up. How does that old song go? Change is gonna come.

It's funny, in a time of peace and plenty, people become so complacent that something like this can be perpetrated on the populace, because we are three-quarters asleep. It's too bad, really, that we can't take advantage of peace and plenty as we should, to prepare for the future.

But who is that disciplined and self controlled? Not me.

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Greenberg240 Donating Member (12 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-16-05 04:24 PM
Response to Original message
126. Nope
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tommcintyre Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-16-05 05:28 PM
Response to Original message
127. It changed my focus completely
Before the election, I saw movies like "Invisible Ballots", "Everywhere but Florida", "Unprecedented: The 2000 Presidential Election", "Votergate", etc. But I thought (hoped), there was no way that the Dems would allow this to happen. After all, why invest so much time and energy to have it stolen from you?, I thought. So I focused 16-18 hours a day on beating the shrub.

Then 11/2 happened. I had CNN on for 12 to 14 hours while I ran a tabular election tracking table. I watched Kerry predictably pull ahead in the exit polls early on. Then it turned. The first real ominous sign was around 6pm ET(?) when someone asked Bob Woodward what he thought of the election. He said that he was troubled that the early Florida count was not matching the exit polls. <That seemed to make the commentator nervous, so they quickly changed the subject. Apparently Bob hadn't gotten the lock-down memo yet.> As the day wore on, it seemed whenever someone even hinted at questioning what was happening, the others would quickly change the subject or laugh it off.

The next day, after Kerry quickly conceded, the CNN pundit round-table quickly all agreed that at least this election (unlike Florida), it was clear who won so everyone should be totally accepting of it. I felt totally propagandized. That was the last time I ever watched MSM, and I doubt I ever will again (not even PBS). <I used to watch several hours a day.>

After the election (and Kerry won), I planned to change my focus to corportization - campaign fiance reform, globalization, etc. Of course that plan was totally changed by the "GREAT THEFT". On 11/3 and 11/4 respectively, I wrote the following two articles, and haven't looked back since.

A Stolen Election - AGAIN! (It is time for everyone to be an activist!)

"November 3rd - In hindsight, we never stood a chance - the "fix" was in from the beginning. Nothing we could have done - no matter how many voters we registered and got to the polls - would have made a difference. In the end, the numbers would've been "adjusted" so Bush would win enough electoral votes. And - so he would have a majority popular vote; so he could declare a "mandate" and push through his extremist agenda."
(more)
http://www.independentmediasource.com/evotingfraud_articles_stolen_election.htm

Evoting Fraud: THE most important issue for all of us

November 4th - 30 percent of all Presidential ballots were cast this year, using electronic voting (Evoting). With Evoting, it is very easy to change the results of an election. And no one can prove it, since there is no paper trail (no hard copy).

I believe this is the most important issue all progressives face. Bush didn't "win" reelection - it was stolen (read here)*. Not only did Bush steal the White house again; but they also swept the South's Senate seats. And, they even ousted Senator Tom Daschle** by a very "close" margin. This probably sent a very ominous message to the other Senate Dems: "mess with us and we won't keep you around as a "token" minority." This is the first time in 53 years that a party Leader has been beaten. A GOP spokesman described Daschle as an "obstructionist" (threat - don't get in our way!).
(more)
http://www.independentmediasource.com/evotingfraud_articles_most_important.htm

I worked 16-18 hours a day on this issue (making email blasters, etc. until 12/20, when I was forced to take a family vacation (scheduled and paid for in 3/2004). The hard work (both prior to the election and after), has taken its toll in burn out. So I have had to "cruise" for a while. But, it's time, and I'm ready to turn up the heat again.
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beammeup Donating Member (26 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-16-05 10:26 PM
Response to Original message
128. I no longer receive a daily newspaper- cancelled my subscription...
to the (MSM) Boston Globe, after their story with the headline that started, "Conspiracy Theories Grow, but ..."

I'm convinced we no longer have a free press.
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