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tommcintyre Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-10-05 08:13 AM
Original message
Giving testimony to the Hawaii Senate Judiciary Comity. What to include?
Our DRE/paper ballot bill will be heard on Friday. I will prepare both a summary to be read, and a more detailed reference for them to refer to. Any suggestions (preferably with links) will be appreciated.

After it is completed, I will post it here for others to use as desired.

Thanks
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Al-CIAda Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-10-05 09:59 AM
Response to Original message
1. Ask Andy Stevenson.....kick! -eom
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tommcintyre Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-10-05 03:20 PM
Response to Reply #1
5. Good suggestion. I will PM him now. n/t
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Peace Patriot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-10-05 10:52 AM
Response to Original message
2. Here's my standard list of educational materials on this matter:
Edited on Thu Feb-10-05 10:59 AM by Peace Patriot
Exit poll analysis: astronomical odds against Bush win

Dr. Steven Freeman: http://www.appliedresearch.us/sf/epdiscrep.htm
Dr. Ron Baiman: http://www.freepress.org/departments/display/19/2004/997
Dr. Webb Mealy: http://www.selftest.net/redshift.htm
Jonathan Simon:http://www.scoop.co.nz/mason/stories/HL0411/S00142.htm
(9 Ph.D's from leading universities call for investigation of 2004 Election:)
http://uscountvotes.org/ucvAnalysis/US/USCountVotes_Re_Mitofsky-Edison.pdf

(Florida: 130,000 to 230,000 phantom votes for Bush--paper vs. electronic voting:)
Dr. Michael Haut & UC Berkeley stats team: http://ucdata.berkeley.edu

Johns Hopkins report on insecurity of electronic voting (general): http://www.scoop.co.nz/mason/stories/HL0307/S00196.htm#5

Easy demo of the how insecure voting machines are:
http://www.chuckherrin.com/hackthevote.htm

"Myth Breakers: Facts About Electronic Elections" (2nd edition): www.votersunite.org

Ohio vote suppression: http://www.bpac.info

Documentation of widespread machine fraud and dirty tricks in over 20 states:
http://www.flcv.com/ussumall.html

Democratic Underground (ignatzmouse):
(North Carolina: absentee ballot vs. electronic, inexplicable 6% edge to Bush in electronic:)
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=203x45003
(also at:) http://www.dailykos.com/story/2004/11/12/233831/06

Democratic Underground (TruthIsAl)l: "To believe Bush won, you have to believe…"

Part 1
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=132&topic_id=1316010

Part 2
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=132&topic_id=1358806

Part 3
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=203x197878

Democratic Underground (TruthIsAll): The Time Zone Discrepancy
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=203x318693

In progress compilations of various articles and materials on 2004 Election Fraud:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=203x311105

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=203&topic_id=304579

------

Note 1: I've just added this to the list above--good for lawmakers and public officials

"Myth Breakers: Facts About Electronic Elections" (2nd edition): www.votersunite.org

Note 2: I will see if I can come up with a list that is formatted in such a way, that you don't have to go to each these incomplete DU urls to get the whole url.
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Peace Patriot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-10-05 11:32 AM
Response to Reply #2
3. Some other notes:
Dr. Steven Freeman wrote two reports on the 2004 election. The first is available at his web site, listed above: "The Unexplained Exit Poll Discrepancy."

The second was circulated on the internet in draft form, then withdrawn, because it is being published as a book in May, but legislators and other interested parties can easily obtain a copy from Freeman at his web site. It's entitled:

"Hypotheses for Explaining the Exit Poll-Official Count Discrepancy in the 2004 US Presidential Election (Working Paper #05-01, January 5, 2005)"

Click on the title, and it says write to Dr. Freeman at: [email protected]

------

Freeman's second paper contains an intriguing analysis of what Kerry's vote should have been, based on factors other than the exit polls. Here's my summary of it:

Dr. Steven Freeman provides an astute analysis of the predictable vote for John Kerry in 2004, using the base vote going in (who voted in 2000), the big switch from Nader to Kerry, and new voter registration which favored Democrats by 57% to 41%. Adding these three groups of voters together, Dr. Freeman finds a discrepancy of over 4 million votes (and possibly as high as 8 million) that Kerry should have gotten and didn't, in the official results. (This analysis appears in Dr. Freeman's second study on the 2004 election, available on request.)

------

And here's my summary of the 9-Ph.D. report on the election:

In another new study, on January 29, 2005, nine Ph.D.'s from leading universities issued a report that also calls the 2004 election result into serious question. They find that Kerry won the exit polls (by a 3% margin). They find the odds against exit poll error--and thus, the odds against the Bush win --to be 1 in 10 million. They find a large, unexplained skew toward Bush at the precinct level in electronic voting vs. paper ballot (a skew that has been confirmed by other reports--see the U.C. Berkeley/Florida, and democraticunderground.com/North Carolina reports).

This report also finds the explanation by Edison/Mitofsky (the exit pollsters) for why Kerry won the exit polls--that Republicans were shy of the pollsters--to be without foundation. In fact, the data points to the opposite conclusion--that the exit polls actually favored Bush--which makes the unexplained discrepancy between the exit polls and the official results even larger in Kerry's favor. The report calls for a full investigation of the 2004 election--the latest in a growing list of expert reports that do so.

-----

This 9-Ph.D. report has an ungainly title:

"US Count Votes: Response to Edison/Mitofsky Election System 2004 Report"

The report is only 5 pages.

Here are the 9 Ph.D.'s:

Josh Mitteldorf, Ph.D. - Temple University Statistics Department Kathy Dopp, MS in mathematics - USCountVotes, President
Steven F. Freeman, PhD - Center for Organizational Dynamics, University of Pennsylvania Brian Joiner, PhD - Prof. of Statistics and Director of Statistical Consulting (ret), University of Wisconsin
Frank Stenger, PhD in mathematics - School of Computing, University of Utah
Richard G. Sheehan, PhD - Department of Finance, University of Notre Dame
Elizabeth Liddle, MA - (UK) PhD candidate at the University of Nottingham
Paul F. Velleman, Ph.D. - Department of Statistical Sciences, Cornell University
Victoria Lovegren, Ph.D. - Department of Mathematics, Case Western Reserve University Campbell B. Read, Ph.D., Professor Emeritus, Department of Statistical Science, Southern Methodist University

Also Peer Reviewed by USCountVotes’ core group of statisticians and independent reviewers.

Press Contact: Bruce O'Dell, USCountVotes, Vice President [email protected]

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tommcintyre Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-10-05 03:40 PM
Response to Reply #2
6. Thanks for all the input Peace Patriot
I will use the info you have provided and whatever I put together I will share it here. I think more and more states will be deciding on similar bills. It would be useful if we had a pre-prepared "library" of "tools" (such as testimonial statements, scripts, letters, etc.). I would be glad to provide web space for this at my site if there is an interest. Once this State bill thing settles down a little, I plan to rebuild, update and expand my election fraud/ reform resource center. It would be logical to include such a library of tools.

Thanks again for your help.
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Peace Patriot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-10-05 12:06 PM
Response to Original message
4. List corrected for DU cutting off of the url:
Note: In some DU postings of urls, DU cuts off the end of the url, so that you must click to the original to obtain the full url. This list attempts to overcome that program and give you the full url. In order to do so, I've put a space after the point at which DU cuts it off and have added the missing end part. In cutting and pasting, remove the ". . . " and the space, for the full url. (And note, on the Baiman url, only one number was cut off the end, the number 7. Also true of the John Hopkins url--just the number 5 was cut off.)

Dr. Steven Freeman: http://www.appliedresearch.us/sf/epdiscrep.htm

Dr. Ron Baiman: http://www.freepress.org/departments/display/19/2004/99... 7

Dr. Webb Mealy: http://www.selftest.net/redshift.htm

Nine Ph.D's from leading universities call for investigation of 2004 Election:
http://uscountvotes.org/ucvAnalysis/US/USCountVotes_Re_... Mitofsky-Edison.pdf


Florida: 130,000 to 230,000 phantom votes for Bush--paper vs. electronic voting:
Dr. Michael Haut & UC Berkeley stats team: http://ucdata.berkeley.edu

Johns Hopkins report on insecurity of electronic voting (general): http://www.scoop.co.nz/mason/stories/HL0307/S00196.htm#... 5

Easy demo of the how insecure voting machines are:
http://www.chuckherrin.com/hackthevote.htm

"Myth Breakers: Facts About Electronic Elections" (2nd edition): www.votersunite.org

Ohio vote suppression: http://www.bpac.info

Documentation of widespread machine fraud and dirty tricks in over 20 states:
http://www.flcv.com/ussumall.html

Democratic Underground (ignatzmouse):
(North Carolina: absentee ballot vs. electronic, inexplicable 6% edge to Bush in electronic:)

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph... hp?az=view_all&address=203x45003

(also at:) http://www.dailykos.com/story/2004/11/12/233831/06

Democratic Underground (TruthIsAl)l: "To believe Bush won, you have to believe…"

Part 1
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph... p?az=show_topic&forum=132&topic_id=1316010

Part 2
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph... p?az=show_topic&forum=132&topic_id=1358806

Part 3
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph... hp?az=view_all&address=203x197878

Democratic Underground (TruthIsAll): The Time Zone Discrepancy
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph... hp?az=view_all&address=203x318693


In progress compilations of various articles and materials on 2004 Election Fraud:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph... hp?az=view_all&address=203x311105

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph... hp?az=show_topic&forum=203&topic_id=304579
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Bill Bored Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-10-05 05:57 PM
Response to Original message
7. I would mention that the HI phone co. was purchased by the Carlyle Group
Edited on Thu Feb-10-05 05:58 PM by Bill Bored
from Verizon in 2004. Someone else mentioned that they are selling it now, but during the 2004 election, Carlyle had control of all the phone and DSL connections in HI.

This has to be done delicately as Republicans may bristle at the insinuation that a private Bush-connected company might want to use telecom lines and records to hack the vote when transmitted to the tabulators, etc. but I leave the diplomacy up to you!

The fact that a New England Repuke operative was convicted of jamming Dem phone lines recently might help your case. You might just say something to the effect that this was a private company with less public accountability than say, Verizon might have had, and that phone records and physical infrastructure could be used to influence the election outcome.

The VVPB would help to ensure that at least the vote totals are accurate, even if manipulated via the phone lines somehow. You should also insist on random surprise audits of 5% of the machines in each jurisdiction.

Here are some bills in NY. They aren't perfect, but you'll get some ideas. The Citizen's Committee is a nice one, but of course it depends on who serves on it. Also, these bills give too much leeway to the BOE to determine exactly how recounts are performed. At least they have some random audit language and the voter-verified paper record must be used for audits and recounts, I think. They also give the choice of DREs and OpScans.

NY Senate:
<http://assembly.state.ny.us/leg/?bn=S01809&sh=t>

NY Assembly:
<http://assembly.state.ny.us/leg/?bn=A00005&sh=t>

Enjoy, and good luck! Let us know how it goes!
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tommcintyre Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-10-05 10:15 PM
Response to Reply #7
9. Thanks very much for all the info
I will see how the Carlyle info works in. The repubs aren't too much of a problem since we have a strong majority Dem congress here. They seem to want VVPAT (paper ballots) as much as the Dems do.

Our big challenge may come when it gets to the finance committee. There are people in power who don't want this, but not apparently for political reasons. <See this thread for more info:>
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=203x322308

<BTW: You can watch the doc "The Carlyle Group: Exposed!" free online here:>
http://www.independentmediasource.com/video2/carlyle.htm

Thanks for the other suggestions and links to the bills. And I will report back here as things progress.
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Bill Bored Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-11-05 12:01 AM
Response to Reply #9
12. If it's not political, why not try for OpScans?
Edited on Fri Feb-11-05 12:26 AM by Bill Bored
Would probably save some money, no?

Use the Automark for disabled voters.

In NY, the BOEs will probably be given the option of using OpScans or DREs with VVPBs. Costs could determine the solution and precinct-level OpScans are supposed to cost a lot less than DREs, aren't they?

It's hard to argue with cost savings! (Sorry I don't have the figures handy.)
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tommcintyre Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-11-05 03:42 AM
Response to Reply #12
15. As I understand it, the election commission wants one system (DREs)
They do not want two systems. They seem to be set on DREs, so it's a matter of "working with what you got". However, I will run this option (OpScans) past the principles of safevotehawaii, as an alternative when the bill goes before the finance committees. If DREs are inevitable, I take some comfort that claudiajean (probably our most qualified expert posting here), said that DREs are a reasonably safe alternative if the proper safeguards are in place.

Thanks again for all you input
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L. Coyote Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-10-05 06:26 PM
Response to Original message
8. Check out how screwed up the HI exit polls were, Senate and Pres
Compare the Senate and Pres exit polls in HI.

Spreadsheets, including the Exit Polls.
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tommcintyre Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-10-05 10:28 PM
Response to Reply #8
10. I couldn't find the Hawaii info
maybe they changed the page?

Excellent "Election Fraud, Irregularity, and Reform Headlines" page here tho. I will include it in the updating of my Election Reform Resource Center.

Thanks for the info
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L. Coyote Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-11-05 12:06 AM
Response to Reply #10
14. If Hawaii was the Ukraine, they would be voting again.
Kerry vote margin (Keery % less Bush %) was 8.683 percent. The exit polls gave Kerry a margin of 13.1 percent. Dem (Kerry) result margin is -4.417 compared to the poll.

Inouye's poll margin was 45.8, the result was 54.5, a +8.70 for the Dem.

So the split in the two poll margins is 13.12 percent. What is odd is how they go in opposite directions. When exit polls results are considered, the same exact people answer the Pres. and Senate questions. So why is there such a huge split in the accuracy?

This also happened in North Dakota. Except there, Kerry does 7% better than the poll and Dorgan's margin is 6% less than the poll predicted.

The Ohio Senate poll margin missed the mark by 15%, in Conn. 14%, NY 13%, NH 12%, PA and VT over 10%. These are margins, so the poll/result discrepancy for the candidates is half these numbers.

The Ohio Senate exit poll was the poorest performer, with the Dem margin at -15.10 compared to the poll. If the poll was accurate, the Dem would have received 7.55% more votes!! Go figure.....

For more, go to the spreadsheet. At the top of the "Election Fraud, Irregularity, and Reform Headlines" page, click the spreadsheets link. Then download the Exit Polls spreadsheet. Go to the Senate worksheet. Scroll down to row 60.

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tommcintyre Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-11-05 03:51 AM
Response to Reply #14
16. Thanks for getting back to me with the specifics
This certainly gives me another arrow in my quiver. Right now, I will include the info in the written reference section, and use it later as oral testimony if "things get rough". Right now, the positive mo' is with us, but that could change down the road (finance committees, etc.).
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KaryninMiami Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-10-05 11:55 PM
Response to Original message
11. Good luck Tom.
Keep us posted!
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tommcintyre Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-11-05 03:54 AM
Response to Reply #11
17. Thanks Karyn... will do.
I will PM you this weekend. :)
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holomua Donating Member (16 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-11-05 12:05 AM
Response to Original message
13. Good luck tomorrow!
Mahalo for all of your hard work!!!
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tommcintyre Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-11-05 04:11 AM
Response to Reply #13
18. 'A'ole pilikia holomua :)
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Bill Bored Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-14-05 12:27 PM
Response to Original message
19. Update please! nt
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