Danger, Will Robinson! Something reeks in the state of DU.

[Vektor]

Dear friends and fellow Duers -

As you know there has been some dissension in the ranks of DU regarding the 2004 election irregularities, and particularly, Senator Kerry's role in the entire process.

While a large number of Kerry's supporters remain faithful that Kerry is pursuing the matter in the most logical and effective way possible, there is also a contingency that is not in agreement with his actions, and feels let down, abandoned, and dissatisfied with his actions thus far.

Which is fine.

MOST of us are loyal Democrats/Liberals/Greens/Progressives, etc. - or any combination of those...we may differ on who our favorite politicians are, and what our course of action ought to be in the future, but the majority of us are at least little left of center. Most of us support progressive politics, and most of us belong here at DU.

What concerns me (and many other DUers I have recently conferred with) is the recent influx of "users" who are opportunistically latching onto these "election irregularities" threads in an attempt to deliberately disrupt and promote discord. These people are clearly NOT progressives, but freepers, who are enjoying a veritable feeding frenzy because of all the uncertainty in our camp regarding the election, and in particular, Kerry's role in the investigations. Several of these individuals have been tombstoned, but many more are out there. The general consensus among many users, basically, is that DU is swarming with trolls right now. Maybe worse than ever before. And these are not always the "hit and run" ones who drop an F-Bomb and flee, but who lurk for weeks and months, logging hundreds, and sometimes 1000+ posts, that are either subtly or downright disruptive. Many create a profile and attempt to blend in.

While it is natural for any thread on the topic of Election fraud and John Kerry to garner a large number of responses running the gamut from I support him and he's doing a great job" to "I am disappointed in him, he could have done better/more/different" - there are a number of particularly troublesome disruptors who frequent these types of threads only, and repeatedly say things like "coward," "weak fuck," spineless bastard" "lying sack of shit" "traitor" "flip-flopper" "dick" "asshole" etc...you get the picture. When one attempts to engage in discourse with such individuals, one gets evasiveness, more of the same, or personal attacks. This is suspicious. Granted some of these folks might be REALLY PISSED OFF Duers who are venting, so I can only encourage those people to try refrain from using those words and phrases to describe any progressive candidate, simply because it feeds the trolls and helps them to divide us. By all means, speak your piece, but avoid giving these unwanted visitors fodder. Even if you are livid with Kerry or any other Democrat the "admit nothing" system can and often does have its merits when freepers are watching and feeding. I will not attempt to tell you what to say on this board, I can only graciously ask. It's ultimately your decision. Enough said on that.

Another type of thread that these trolls like to crash is the ones pertaining to Kerry's visit to the middle east. The fact that Kerry is visiting world leaders and meeting with our troops, and is being well received, KILLS the freepers, and they are hijacking these sorts of threads attempting to promote the rhetoric that "the military hates Kerry" "he shouldn't be there." A real thorn in their side is the fact that the final statistical tally on how our military voted has never been released. We all know that if Shrub-hole got the military vote, the MSM, especially Faux Snooze, would have been screaming it from the rafters from day one, and still would be to this day. We'd still be hearing about it. LOUDLY.

One recently tombstoned troll claimed "no military veterans voted for Kerry - that's why we lost." This prompted some users who ARE veterans to step up and challenge the troll - she crashed and burned in a slew of misspelled obscenities, and was promptly tombstoned. With that little ditty in mind, be prepared for the wave of freepers entering these threads claiming they have "happened to have bumped into some soldiers returning from Fallujah yesterday who told them that all the American troops are thrilled to be there and support Shrub 100%."

Never in my life have I met SO many people who happened to have bumped into soldiers returning from Fallujah the day prior, with nothing but glowing stories of how great it is over there!

So please, be aware of disruptors who have a lot of swearing, insults and fantastic tales of the "Oasis of Peace and Democracy" that Iraq is right now (thanks to Shrub) to offer, but little else in the way of conversation. Especially if they are unable to back up these claims with any verifiable or even remotely believable details. If you notice users who do a whole lot of griping, but seem to never participate in legitimate discourse about progressive politics, that might be a red flag. Don't be afraid to alert the mods. Remember, it is not tattling, if someone is genuinely disrupting and you just forward the message to them and ask them to check out that person's posts. The moderators have way too much traffic on this site to catch every infraction, and there is no harm in pointing out suspicious activity. This is a progressive site after all, so why let the trolls run amok? Send them back to freeper land where they belong and let them spread their B.S. over there.

They have their own boards on which to rant and rave all they want. This is a board catering to progressive politics, and while other viewpoints are welcome, attacks, disruption, and the spread of propaganda shouldn't be. I'd hate to see the little leeches take over.

Just a thought...thanks guys, and for those of you who are legitimate supporters of D.U. regardless of your opinions of Kerry or Election Fraud, thanks and keep up the good work.

Be vigilant, DUers!

[EFerrari]

1. Thanks, Vektor. A little OT: Has anyone heard/seen the numbers

for the military vote? You'd think if it went to Bush*, they'd have trumpeted it.

[Vektor]

7. Exactly, and I'll tell ya...

Myself, a rash of other bloggers, and two reporter friends of mine have tried unsuccessfully day and night to find this figure.

It's never been verified or released.

Any attempts to contact news sources and ask have prompted this response: "We haven't received that figure yet."

So, you know how every man, woman, college student, African American, Jew, Muslim, Catholic, Protestant, Soccer Mom, Nascar Dad, etc... voted, but not the military? You just "haven't gotten around to adding that up?"

Then how can you say all the votes have been counted?

They've been counted I'm sure as has any other demographic. I suspect the numbers don't look good for Shrub is why we don't hear about it.

[EFerrari]

32. That's what I thought. Anybody check with Army Times or one

of those other publications? stars and Stripes?

You may laugh but when the war started, we subbed to Army Times here because we didn't trust MSM to report. I let it expire but it was an eye opener the way the complaints were published and the Ed Board lambasted the misadministration for their rottenness.

[BlueEyedSon]

2. Kerry is my hero, my savior, my president. He is also now irrelevant.

He didn't win & he didn't fight back.

I recognize all these realities. Deal with it.

[New Earth]

5. maybe

people who feel like that, need to deal with it.

[BlueEyedSon]

6. Uhhh... deal with what... reality?

OK. Maybe YOU will join me in dealing....
:)

[Joe Chi Minh]

20. Now where have I heard that expression before...?

The Dems will deal with *your* party, buddy. So go back to sleep now. Ah, I see you have. You've been tombstoned. Loved the name though... An ubermensch ring to it, kind of KKK.

[BlueEyedSon]

25. Are you talking to me?

I think I'm still a very much alive & vibrant contributor to DU!

[New Earth]

3. w00t! best post of the day

:toast: that is exactly what is going on here. although the 'obvious' disruptors have diminished in number, there are still a few running around focusing heavily on Kerry bashing and his trip to the middle east. it's actually a difficult situation at times b/c there really are some real DU'ers that aren't happy with Kerry. Regardless, there is no reason for the kind of words being used and names being called.

btw, hi frprs :hi:

[KC21304]

8. And no reason for someone to recite 8 of the most vile

in a thread warning about disruptors. Come on ! I don't buy it.

[Vektor]

18. Oh come on!

I was giving concrete examples of what to look for. We are big kids here, we can handle the truth, especially when it is being used in an example, to describe a real situation.

You can read every post I have ever written, not ONE, I repeat NOT ONE bashes Kerry, or any other progressive politician.

I apologize if the language offended you, but these are actual quotes from the very sort of people I am warning you about.

What's not to buy, exactly? If you don't believe me, read around...you'll find this stuff out there. I didn't make it up.

I have no problem with being bluntly honest, which is exactly what I was doing. I don't candy-coat the ugly truth to soften the blow. If all you saw were the swear words, you aren't seeing the forest.

[Vektor]

12. Thanks!

:-)
And let it be known..I don't even want to debate if Kerry is a good guy or not...that wasn't even my point in the post (I'm sure you caught on though, because you rule!) I just wanted to say...be on the lookout for disruptors, they feed off of our disagreements!

So let's be civil to each other no matter how we feel...it's us against them after all.

[liberalhistorian]

13. I think it's starting to get easier, though,

to pick out the freeps and the trolls, even if they have a high number of posts. And I think the infestation will start to fade within the next month or so, as they lose interest and as we get better at being able to pick them out.

[Ken Burch]

19. I am very angry with Kerry on many issues, but I am not a Freeper

I voted for him and did what I could to help him(which, in Alaska, wasn't much since we have an overwhelming knuckledragger majority who want to mine, pave and log the place into oblivion).

My own posts have mainly been focused on

1)what was intended as a serious critique of the Kerry campaign and its shortcomings;

2)my great reservations about the idea of renominating Kerry in 2008, as some have already suggested.

In the service of these points, I have used vivid and sometimes inflammatory language, but my intent has never been to sabotage DU or the Democratic Party. I wished instead to make both face reality.

[Blue_In_AK]

27. Ken Burch, I couldn't agree with you more

about our knuckle-dragger majority. It's hard to be a dem here, isn't it?

[Ken Burch]

33. Yeah...

Almost as hard as being a wolf now that aerial lobocide has been legalized

[Vektor]

40. Keep in mind....

I wasn't attempting to elevate OR trash Kerry on this particular post. I only wanted to point out that while the adults here are trying to have a legitimate debate, the trollies are gnawing on the scraps and begging at the table. Sure, you and I and Ken can agree to disagree - as many of us can, but some of these "visitors" are here merely to stir the pot.

[Vektor]

31. Well, Ken, we all have our moments...

...we all use harsh language and get emotional...and that's healthy. As I said, we all have different opinions, and we all should be able to debate here like adults...the ones that worry me are the ones that do NOTHING but swear, attack, disrupt, and complain..with no real discussion otherwise, and cannot provide any real evidence of ever having supported any progressive policy.

I have had times where I am less than chipper...but there's a difference between what you are saying and what some of these people are doing.

Thanks for commenting.

[Ken Burch]

34. OK.

...'nuff said.

[Vektor]

39. OK...

:)

[coloradodem2005]

4. I agree with you 100%.

The fact that Kerry is doing what he is says something about him.

[Maat]

9. I joined DU because I wanted to have polite and respectful

political and social discussions. I don't mind at all if someone says something like, 'Ma'at, what did you think I said,' or 'I'm disappointed in ...'

We do not need to lower ourselves by using insulting terminology. We just don't. I respect some venting. But attacking a DUer's belief, while using certain terminology, is .... well ... very disappointing (seeing it, in other words).

[Vektor]

14. Yes, and it helps the trolls...

to get their grubby little fingers in. If genuine DUers are attacking each other and our candidates, how do we tell who is who? It helps give the disruptors camouflage!

[thoughtanarchist]

10. Good post V.

here's to solidarity.

:toast:

[mzmolly]

11. Exactly right. My PUBLIC opinions sometimes differ from my PRIVATE

opinions when it comes to the Democratic Party.

I don't care to give fodder to the freep element.

Great post!

[seito]

17. Agree 100%

Thanks V, and mzmolly. Well said.

[Eloriel]

15. not in agreement with his actions???

Um, you mean there WERE some? Actions, that is?

[Vektor]

22. Perfect example.

AGAIN:

This thread wasn't a debate about whether Kerry was right or wrong. It was to draw attention to disruptors who opportunistically crash legitimate discussion threads to hurl insults, regardless of if it is even relevant to the topic.

You just couldn't resist could you?

[seito]

28. I have a question for you

As a DU old-timer, how does the continuous debate over what Senator Kerry did or failed to do contribute to advancing our progressive issues today? There are people here that love John Kerry and will support him no matter what he does or does not do. There are people here that loath John Kerry and will find fault with everything he does or does not do.

It seems that, at this juncture, John Kerry the Presidential candidate is no longer an issue. That may change in 2-3 years, but today, the primary issue of this forum is investigating the fraud and fixing the system.

I believe that this is something that we all agree on. However, the constant bickering over John Kerry has done nothing but create a divisive an disruptive atmosphere.

JMHO

[New Earth]

29. oh boy

.....

[Vektor]

35. True!

Excellent point. I'd like to see us all move forward and promote positive change, and leave the trolls in the dust, where they belong.

[liberal43110]

16. Freepers are having a lot of fun here recently

I visited the Free Republic site over the weekend, and they have an entire section dedicated to DU. They constantly read and POST here and are having a competition to see how many posts they can make before getting tombstoned. The highest prize goes to starting an argument that gets a true DUer tombstoned as well.

Just keep this in mind...

Nancy

[MadisonProgressive]

21. I have it on good authority that the military voted

60% Kerry 40% DumbYa (approximately)

This was skewed by the officers.

Enlisted men only:

70% Kerry 30% DumbYa


You heard it here FIRST!!!

[EFerrari]

37. wow. Do you have something like a source for that? n/t

[eallen]

42. I would LOVE to have a cite for that!

From the way you phrased it, I'm guessing it's not yet available. When it is, please post it. Two or three times! Even if it is 60-40 the other way, that would take a lot of wind out of the sails of some Bushkultie I know, who think the military spoke with a single voice.

:bounce:

BTW, as a newcomer and admitted independent, I hope long-term DUers differentiate between someone who is openly that, and trying not to be antagonistic about it, from freepers intent on sabotage. The first Bush term convinced me that the new GOP has become something radical, and that it now is the single greatest threat to American liberty and democracy. Even though my views are in the minority here on issues such as gun control, I'm fully a fellow traveler in wanting to take down the modern GOP. :mad:

[Der Blaue Engel]

46. Welcome to DU, eallen!

We need all the allies here we can get. And you'd be surprised at how some of those who appear to have been here awhile do not appear to be allies. Time and numbers mean little, IMHO.

[Blue_In_AK]

23. Vektor, thank you

from the bottom of my heart for this post. I made a little comment about this very subject somewhere else this morning but not nearly as eloquently as you.

[Vektor]

26. You're welcome...

I have been mulling this over for days now, and finally, I just had to speak up. Interestingly, this very thread about how to spot a disruptor will attract people who will totally disregard the message of unity, and just pop in and say how much they hate Kerry. Hmmmm.

We have our work cut out for us.

[Vektor]

24. P.S.!! Watch it happen on this very thread.

It's like putting a bowl of honey out for a bunch of flies.

[seito]

30. lol

Flies, not only attracted to honey

[Vektor]

38. Tee-hee!

We are going to need a big swatter.

[ginnyinWI]

43. Great post, Vector!

If we can't get unified and work toward a common cause for the good of all, we won't need any enemies to tear us down--we'll self-destruct. Democracy is about freedom of speech, but it also calls for respecting each other.

[sparky_in_ma]

36. Good post.

I supported Dean until the party selected John Kerry. Then I worked for Kerry. Any of the democratic candidates in the primaries would have been a better POTUS compared to the current office holder, who is the real enemy.

[Vektor]

41. Thanks Sparky -

Here's looking at 2006 & 2008!

[Der Blaue Engel]

44. Thanks for having the guts to point this out

I just hope this thread stays open long enough for some rational discourse.

I'm sure there will be several cries of "oh, making us all step in line with your point of view, are you?"

And I'd like to refute that before it even starts. NO ONE is saying people can't have dissenting views or express them, even vigorously.

What Vektor is talking about is just plain abusive, divisive vitriol designed to divide us. I've seen it. A lot of you have seen it. You know what Vektor means.

And for the record, not being divisive does not mean sharing the same views or espousing the same views. It means agreeing to disagree in a productive and respectful manner. (This is stated in the DU rules, if I'm not mistaken.)

Now who would want us to be unproductive and disrespectful, I wonder?

[Vektor]

47. Thanks, Der Blaue Engel. Re: Stepping in line...

"I'm sure there will be several cries of "oh, making us all step in line with your point of view, are you?"

Well, I hope not, since I never promoted my point of view. I cannot stress that enough.

I only want to encourage co-operation between progressives, regardless on where they may stand as individuals on the various topics so commonly discussed on this board.

How I feel about Kerry, Iraq, the Election, etc, isn't the topic. I also did say I was graciously asking people to think before they type, not demanding it. I did stress that this is ultimately the user's decision.

Thanks, again, DBE!

[greenmutha]

45. Amen! (And Nominated!) n/t

[Moloch]

48. Locking...

Apparently, you did not read the first post pinned at the top of this forum.

In case there is any confusion regarding this, you are not allowed to chastise newbies on DU. Do not publicly accuse people of being freepers or disruptors. If you believe someone is a freeper or disruptor, then hit 'alert' and the moderators will look at the evidence and decide.

Damkira
DU Moderator