Not that we here on DU didn't already know this, but having watched this evolve since election day, and seeing it culminate in this "just for show" debate which is covered NOWHERE in the mainstream media and will be ignored and dismissed after it takes place, I am so depressed about the system. What's the F'ing point of us all putting our heart and energy into fighting this? There is a complete control of power here, and we have none of it. I watch these guys, one after the other, say "sour grapes", "move on", "wild-eyed conspiracy theorists", and know that we won't get taken seriously. Our government has experienced a coup, and nobody cares but us in the minority, and they will not relenquish power. There will be no changes. There will be no reform. I feel it. These a**holes speaking now on the republican side invoke terrorism and "attacking the noble Americans who volunteered to work on this election". They make it seem like we are attacking Americans and encouraging terrorists, and as long as people continue to respond like sheep to these keywords, and our Democratic representatives don't retort with specifics to dismiss that those are the issues we are debating, we stand no chance. I can't watch it. I can't after today. My blood pressure will go through the roof.
Do any of you still believe we have the power to change this corrupt government? Tell me, why should I keep actively fighting? I am only getting enraged and depressed over the response to all our efforts. At this moment, I hear some b*tch state "The American people must be shaking their heads at this debate" and "these allegations are without merit". They keep repeating over and over that Bush won by 3 million votes, and that's why 100,000 don't matter. NOBODY questions whether Bush's margin is even true. They say that Bush couldn't have pulled off a massive fraud, as though we were claiming that the man himself was solely responsible, rather than a whole network of people, and probably without his involvement. I want to reach through the TV and smack these people. So, I will remove myself for at least a while after today. I can't take it. It's too personally upsetting. How do you all feel, as my only sense of community on this issue?
T.S. Eliot best expresses my feelings: "This is how the world ends; not with a bang, but with a whimper"
49. Please see my post: "We made it happen! A revised view of 1/6...
...Idea: A Peoples' Investigation?"
I went through a process, too. Real negative feeling at first. High hopes--despite years of experience, study of history, and a normally optimistic and long view of things. But I got past that reaction, and I think that my description of what I'm thinking now might interest you.
It's about the legitimacy of our democracy. And this debate in the congress is historic. What we need to do is to translate it into election reform. Don't be depressed. Channel your frustration into action.
Today went better than anyone with realistic expectations could have hoped for. It is now time for everyone to advance the cause of election reform at all levels of government. It may take years but we all must keep working for there to be any chance of real and meaningful reform. This will probably be a long drawn out battle and anyone looking for a quick solution is kidding themselves.
14. Because innocent people are dying as a result.
Keep in mind that the policies of the current regime have led to thousands of unnecessary deaths. As tax payers who fund the current regime, we have a lot of blood on our hands whether we like it or not. But if we don't like it, we should do what we can to put a stop to it.
There are a lot of people outside of the US that are being hurt by US foreign policy, but because they are so far away, it's hard for them to do much about it. However, we are right here inside this country and in a position to bring about change.
We have a great responsibility to the rest of the world.
46. Masaka - Thanks, this IS exactly the kind of reminder I need...
I definitely did not get what I wanted today and I am mad as hell about having been victimized by the theft of an election we WON -- and it helps me to remember that that I will keep doing this because there are millions around the world who wish they could do this as opposed to living the reality they are forced to live.
This is only the beginning of a war for our democratic process. Don't grow disheartened because what you expected to happen did not happen. This is a historical day that you are witnessing, and despite what the Republicans are saying, we have a lot to be proud of today. So, hold your head up and get reading to fight. Fight for those you love -- fight for the America that you know we all once had.
its posts like this that make me infuriated with the state of our party today. A coup? massive fraud? You blame Bush for this "massive fraud" and then say how it would have taken an incredible number of people to conglomerate such a fraud, and yet there is not one shread of evidence supporting such claims. If so many people are involved, dont you think it'd be easier to find a slip up?
We need to fight them on the issues, because all of this is BS and the american people know it.
47. Hi again SuperSteve! It would have taken a few hand-fulls of people
here and a few hand-fulls of people there to accomplish the thefts of millions and millions of votes. They had means, motive, and opportunity. Sorry we don't have the smoking cannon we need yet -- but it is out there. Just my humble opinion.
Being angry at those of us who believe this just contributes to the dirty work that the Republican party wants done. In psychology theory the role you are playing is called "minder" -- the person who makes sure that everyone sticks together and says all of the "right" things. Herding Democrats is like herding cats - generally, it can't be done.
In many Republican locations there were more votes than voters. In many Democratic locations there were fewer votes than voters. That suggests fraud at some level and fraud should be investigated and people responsible punished. Maybe we can start from this common ground?
21. I have to agree with you . . . this was a sham . . .
almost none of these senators or congresspersons had their hearts in this . . . when the vote came in the Senate, only two voted for the resolution . . . with all the letters and e-mails and faxes and phone calls, the best we could do was get a pro forma objection to the Ohio electors . . . when what should have happened is the entire party standing up and saying this election was stolen . . .
truth be told, both parties are playing for the same corporate team . . . until we take corporate money out of politics, we'll never see any true reform . . . what we saw today was the best we could do, and that's a sad, sad commentary on things . . .
23. We have no choice. We either fight or die like sheep.
Fascists are ruthless and merciless. They don't care about the Geneva Convention and they approve of torture. They control all three branches of this government. They will continue the war in Iraq, they will not reform the privatized election process any more than they will reform Halliburton's no-bid contracts. They will continue to dismantle social programs while expanding corporate welfare. Both unemployment and the deficit will continue to grow. They will continue to stack the courts with wingnuts to feed their immensely profitable prison industry. The object of fascism is to enrich the few while reducing everyone else to slave labor, and they revel in the deaths of millions of innocents. They are war profiteers and human rights violators.
This was the very last "victory" the Democrats will have in Congress. Even though it was voted down, it did get discussed. From now on it is unlikely that anything introduced by a Democrat will make it out of committee.
We can ignore fascism only so long as it is other people who are dying, but when our turn comes we will not be able to ignore it. The question is not why we should keep fighting, but whether we have the ability to fight at all. Our votes don't count. The votes of our elected representatives don't count. Anybody who isn't depressed, is either profiting from fascism, or has their head in the sand.
Other threads are calling us whiners or even freepers for being unhappy with today's events...but I think they are so busy patting themselves on the back for getting Sen Boxer to stand up, they can't see how betrayed we are by the rest of the Senate Dems...
I'm wondering how Barbara feels right now with all those knives in her back?
I'm thinking, let's all move to California and work hard for secession (and vote Boxer in as president)!
Sooorry I'm not feeling practical...I've just devoted months of my life to this at the expense of my own livelihood and financial security, not to mention stress on my marriage, and estrangement from friends, and so have a lot of us. Some of us will choose to be practical some other day, thank you
There were some wild theories yesterday on what could be accomplished. Most showed a lack of understanding of both history and the political process. They also showed the results of 50 years of movies and TV that have convinced too many folks tht all problems can be fixed in 30, 60, or 120 minutes; usually via some "AHA" moment. Today was an historic step toward correcting basic wrongs.
33. Paligal, everyone here feels at least a little of what you are feeling
Edited on Thu Jan-06-05 04:34 PM by McCamy Taylor
so dont feel alone or scared or worried that your fears represent reality. They dont. They are fears. We all get them. The election reform movement is moving along at a remarkable pace, much faster than I thought it would back in early November when I watched in horror as Karl Rove, with MSM complicity stole the election. In the months to come we are going to see
1. Meaningful election reform and
2. An investigation of Votergate that will be eirrily reminiscent of Watergate.
Back to the topic at hand, emotions. The best thing to do with powerful emotions to acknowledge them. You have done that.
The best thing to do when others express their powerful emotions IS TO ACKNOWLEDGE THEM. All you people who laugh and mock DUers who talk about feeling frsutrated or scared remember, even if the one making the post isnt honest, there are people reading the posts who really do have those emotions. So try to be a little bit sympathetic, ok?
So that 20 years from now you can point to this time in history and know that you participated in a movement to ensure our democratic rights were not stolen from us.
So that when your children vote for the first time, they can do so knowing that their vote DID count. Because, whether everyone wants to admit it or not, today DID matter. It's a small step in the beginning of a bigger more important movement that we'll all look back on and be extremely proud to have been a part of.
40. The value - the purpose - was to educate just a few more people
We had to try, but no one expected to make a difference in the outcome in Congress today. The long term outcome is where its at...
We got national exposure today. The proceedings on CSPAN are great, and I expect they will continue to be available online. We will maybe get 10 seconds of time on the national news. Maybe public television will cover it a bit more.
A few more people learned about what happened, and will login and discover DU and all the evidence that has been accumulated. A few more will get involved and start to do something about election reform.
The big question is will there be enough momentum to get some traction. Or will we slowly slip back into the repuckish swamp.... ????
...to see some evidence of *any* momentum. Yeah, a few more people got to hear "election problems" taken seriously. It will all be for naught if the MSM does its usual condescending hatchet job of reporting the issue, and gets away with it. We'll simply have a few more people brainwashed by the "conspiracy theory" meme.
Will the grass-roots energizing (that is, the few who will be encouraged to research the issue) ever outstrip the example of senatorial, congressional and media apathy we saw today?
Our elected representatives let us down today (most of them). Perhaps we can set a good example for *them*, since they are too fat or craven to join us. Those who say this is just the beginning, now I think I see what you meant. Our reps--most of them--were never in this for us. It was *always* our fight, not theirs. They are not of us.
44. I agree with you 100%. I think now that I am glad I didn't see it.
It feels like we are locked up in a jail in the deep south, and the sherriff owns the town and everyone is crooked. It is like an insane dream. The only thing that I think I want to focus on is trying to find the proof that fraud was committed and the hope that it will come out eventually. I think the realization that the dems wouldn't stand up and scream for the rights of the disenfranchised makes me the maddest.
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