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Just got email from KERRY: Counting on You to Make Sure Votes Get Counted

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Amaryllis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-05-05 01:47 PM
Original message
Just got email from KERRY: Counting on You to Make Sure Votes Get Counted
Dear XXXX

No American citizen should wake up the morning after the election and worry their vote wasn't counted. No citizen should be denied at the polls if they are eligible to vote. And, as the greatest, wealthiest nation on earth, our citizens should never be forced to vote on old, unaccountable and non transparent voting machines from companies controlled by partisan activists.

Tomorrow, members of Congress will meet to certify the results of the 2004 presidential election. I will not be taking part in a formal protest of the Ohio Electors.

Despite widespread reports of irregularities, questionable practices by some election officials and instances of lawful voters being denied the right to vote, our legal teams on the ground have found no evidence that would change the outcome of the election.

But, that does not mean we should abandon our commitment to addressing those problems that happened in Ohio. We must act today to make sure they never happen again.

I urge you to join me in using this occasion to highlight our demand that Congress commit itself this year to reforming the electoral system. A Presidential election is a national federal election but we have different standards in different states for casting and counting votes. We need a national federal standard to solve the problems that occurred in the 2004 election. I will propose legislation to help achieve this.

Florida 2000 was a wake up call. But the Republicans who control Congress ignored it. Will they now ignore what happened in 2004?

There are nearly 3,000,000 of you receiving this email. We accomplished so much together during the campaign. Now let's use our power to make sure that at least one good thing comes from the voting rights problems of the 2004 election. If we want to force real action on election reform, we've got to demand that congressional leaders hold full hearings. Make sure they hear from you and help hold them accountable.

Speaker Dennis Hastert: 1-202-225-0600
Leader Bill Frist: 1-202-224-3135

And please report that you've made your call right here:
http://www.johnkerry.com/signup/electoral_reform.php

I want every vote counted because Americans have to know that the votes they stood in line for, fought for, and strived so hard to cast in an election, are counted. We must make sure there are no questions or doubts in future elections. It's critical to our democracy that we investigate and act to prevent voting irregularities and voter intimidation across the country. We can't stand still as Congressional leaders seek to sweep well-founded voter concerns under the rug.

Please join with me in calling Speaker Hastert and Leader Frist and telling them that you want action on election reform now.

A recent report from Representative John Conyers (D-Michigan) reveals very troubling questions that have not yet been answered by Ohio election officials. I commend the Democratic National Committee for its announcement this week that the DNC will be investing resources and reaching out to non-partisan academics in a long term study of Ohio voting irregularities. I am only sorry that we haven't seen the same from Ohio Secretary of State Blackwell and GOP officials.

Congress must play a positive, proactive role on this issue. That's why I will soon introduce legislation to reform our election system, ensuring transparency and accountability in our voting system and that all Americans have an opportunity to vote and have their vote counted.

Please remember to let us know that you made your call when you're done. We're hoping to ensure House and Senate leaders' offices hear our demand for action on election reform in meaningful way. Please take a moment to let us know you have made your call here: http://www.johnkerry.com/signup/electoral_reform.php

Thank you,

John Kerry

P.S. Thanks to all those who participated in our USO "phone home" campaign last week. The totals are coming in from the USO, and they are thrilled with your generosity and support for our brave men and women in uniform. We will send you totals as we get them.

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Jack_Dawson Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-05-05 01:48 PM
Response to Original message
1. Will Kerry Stand?
Or is that against the rulez? If the Dems roll over tomorrow I'm starting my own party. What a pathetic bunch they've been.
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Pirate Smile Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-05-05 01:49 PM
Response to Reply #1
2. Kerry is in the Middle East. He won't be there tomorrow.
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crispini Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-05-05 01:50 PM
Response to Reply #1
3. He's not even HERE, he's in Iraq.
Senator Roll-Over. :mad:
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McCamy Taylor Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-05-05 02:09 PM
Response to Reply #3
51. Solidarity! Pres. Elect Kerry is supporting our troops in Iraq!
Edited on Wed Jan-05-05 02:10 PM by McCamy Taylor
Damn site more than * is doing.

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NickiWitch Donating Member (303 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-05-05 02:26 PM
Response to Reply #51
91. You got that right! n/t
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Benhurst Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-05-05 03:12 PM
Response to Reply #51
149. They don't need "support" -- they need to be brought home!
I so tired of liberals like Frankin and Schultz thanking our troops for "what they are doing." What are they "doing"? Fighting for their lives and having to kill innocent civilians in a country we never should have invaded in the first place. The Iraqis are not going to let the Bush Crime Family steal their oil and establish their 17 military bases without a fight to the death.

Stop the needless killing -- Bring the troops HOME!

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MandateThis Donating Member (40 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-05-05 04:30 PM
Response to Reply #149
178. Kerry went to Iraq so he can come home and put it to bu$h...
He'll have firsthand stories of the tragedies and injured soldiers. He'll make Bu$h look so bad cuz all he did was go for photo ops with fake turkeys. I have no doubt that had the election NOT been stolen, that President Kerry would've brought them home. He played to the middle a bit too much. But we still won, EVEN without the corporate media giving him a chance.
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Benhurst Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-05-05 05:05 PM
Response to Reply #178
189. I agree with you Kerry won, and I hope you are right he will
press to bring the troops home. God knows he did his part during Vietnam, but serving and protesting. I hope he lives up to the high standard he set for himself then. The killing has to stop.
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yankeedem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-05-05 05:35 PM
Response to Reply #178
200. And since he wouldn't fight, and is in the minority party
and MSM won't report it anyway, who really cares? And why didn't he "put it to Bush" during the campaign?
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NoPasaran Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-05-05 02:18 PM
Response to Reply #3
75. If we had a balloon
We could fill it with hot air.
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JohnnyCougar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-05-05 02:22 PM
Response to Reply #3
83. Come on...we all know what Kerry contesting the election will do
It would be political suicide unless the election is actually overturned. It just wouldn't be productive. It is a better idea for Kerry to be in Iraq so you can't accuse him of whining. This whole issue will sink faster than a stone in calm water if the Republicans can spin it as Kerry whining.
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SlowDownFast Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-05-05 02:48 PM
Response to Reply #83
125. BINGO!!!!!!
ding, ding, ding, ding!!!!

give the contestant a prize!!!!!!
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rodeodance Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-05-05 07:04 PM
Response to Reply #83
216. right
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emulatorloo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-05-05 04:43 PM
Response to Reply #3
183. Yeah, rolling over in safe cushy Iraq EOM
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ccarter84 Donating Member (412 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-05-05 01:51 PM
Response to Reply #1
7. Kerry won't stand, but I hope he doesn't discourage
the fledgling movement we have going now. (got the same e-mail as '3 million' others.

In other news I just got the DNC e-mail...and they're talking about social security...way to be on the ball guys so tempted to contact them here and with a courteous yet angry 30 seconds let them know they're letting down the entire country.

Main Phone Number:

202-863-8000

Just gotta do it politely cuz whoever answers the phones is probably some poor college student like myself.
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Stand and Fight Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-05-05 01:51 PM
Response to Reply #1
8. Did you read the post?
Edited on Wed Jan-05-05 02:09 PM by Stand and Fight
"Tomorrow, members of Congress will meet to certify the results of the 2004 presidential election. I will not be taking part in a formal protest of the Ohio Electors." Plus he will be in the Middle East.
:(

:crazy:
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garybeck Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-05-05 01:54 PM
Response to Reply #8
17. I disagree
Just because he's not participating, doesn't mean anything.

It is politically advantageous for this to happen without him running the show.
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merwin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-05-05 01:57 PM
Response to Reply #8
24. Kerry said they didn't find any evidence that would change the election...
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sepia_steel Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-05-05 02:22 PM
Response to Reply #24
81. I thought changing the election
was not the point, but a nice side-bonus. This is about elections, not one guy getting into the white house. It may still happen, ,and * is definitely going to have a shitty 4 Moron Years. Let's just keep at it. It is worth our effort no matter who's on board with us.
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marcologico Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-05-05 01:58 PM
Response to Reply #8
28. "very troubling questions"? "irregularities"? "questionable practices"?
Which letter did you read??
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merh Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-05-05 02:16 PM
Response to Reply #1
69. Let me know when you form your own party, I will gladly
send you a donation and balloons. :silly: (sarcasm)
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jswordy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-05-05 03:29 PM
Response to Reply #1
158. I like how Kerry says it is...
all very fishy but they "found no evidence that would change the outcome of the election."

It isn't whether your vote counts, it is whether or not he would win that motivates him!

Heheheheheh!

Then he goes on to say, while he is not personally gonna stick his neck out, his supporters ought to call Hastert and Frist to demand that Congress reform the election process!

That's our boy. Geez.
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Freddie Stubbs Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-05-05 04:30 PM
Response to Reply #1
179. Didn't you read the email?
Tomorrow, members of Congress will meet to certify the results of the 2004 presidential election. I will not be taking part in a formal protest of the Ohio Electors.
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cybildisobedience Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-05-05 01:50 PM
Response to Original message
4. It's official.
I am completely disgusted with him.

Does he not get that "electoral reform" will only mean MORE unverifiable voting machines being ram-rodded through?
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Amaryllis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-05-05 01:51 PM
Response to Original message
5. How will this impact other senator's willingness to stand is my question?
Edited on Wed Jan-05-05 02:30 PM by Amaryllis
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marcologico Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-05-05 01:51 PM
Response to Original message
6. hey not bad!
redundant maybe but that's Kerry!
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JDPriestly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-05-05 01:51 PM
Response to Original message
9. Kerry is on the right track.
We can't change the past. We need to focus on making sure future elections are transparent and fair. One thing we can do is volunteer to work at our local polling places next time around.
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crispini Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-05-05 01:54 PM
Response to Reply #9
14. Yeah, well, some of us did that.
Some of us sat there for fourteen hours with a bunch of republicans.

And some of us are STILL disgusted with Senator Roll-Over.

Ohio Dems were disenfranchised like crazy, what part of that doesn't he get?

This isn't about changing the past, this is about MAKING A POINT.

I think we need to start working on that 14th Amendment thing (was that it?) to make sure that Ohio loses some representatives.
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truth2power Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-05-05 05:28 PM
Response to Reply #9
199. "volunteer to work..." Yeah, that'll work.
I stood at a polling place, in the rain, for 11 hours on November 2, without a break. The chances of my efforts having prevented the real fraud that went on, IMO, were slim to none.

A friend told me recently, "We'll vote them out next time around." <sigh> Words fail me!
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blm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-05-05 01:53 PM
Response to Original message
10. If Kerry sticks to this investigation and BBV/vote fraud is exposed,
Edited on Wed Jan-05-05 01:53 PM by blm
including the ownership of the machines by partisan, agenda-driven Republicans, then democracy has a great chance of being saved.
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KoKo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-05-05 02:07 PM
Response to Reply #10
47. Urging us to call Frist and Hastert and report back to him....sounds
pretty agressive. He sound like he wants it done soon... Maybe as part of our "Call the Senators" program to get them to protest Ohio..

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rodeodance Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-05-05 07:05 PM
Response to Reply #47
217. I will contact them Now!-Lets light up their phones!!1
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Debbie13 Donating Member (176 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-05-05 03:38 PM
Response to Reply #10
161. He's doing the right thing. The lawyers didn't find maybe the fraud
but, the investigation, spurred on by the millions, will.

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Pirate Smile Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-05-05 01:53 PM
Response to Original message
11. I didn't see this this week.
"I commend the Democratic National Committee for its announcement this week that the DNC will be investing resources and reaching out to non-partisan academics in a long term study of Ohio voting irregularities."
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demnan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-05-05 01:53 PM
Response to Original message
12. But Kerry
we were counting on YOU to make sure the votes were counted. What are we to do when YOU won't even get your rich ass to Washington for the event? YOU are the one who can do something, but YOU won't even work for your constituents. Instead you have to go overseas.

I'm going to have myself taken off his email list. This is too much.
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lostnfound Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-05-05 02:22 PM
Response to Reply #12
78. "you HAVE to go overseas"? I think it's pretty damn brave
for him to go overseas.

We don't need a one-man target for the RW media. Better if this is a citizen's charge.
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SlowDownFast Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-05-05 02:52 PM
Response to Reply #78
131. BINGO AGAIN!!!!!!
ding, ding, ding, ding!!!!!!

we have another winner!!!!!
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politicasista Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-05-05 01:53 PM
Response to Original message
13. I figured this was another Kerry bashing post
:cry:
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Amaryllis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-05-05 01:55 PM
Response to Reply #13
19. I just posted the letter without any comments. It was not meant to bash.
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Imagevision Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-05-05 01:54 PM
Response to Original message
15. That strikes many funny> We were counting on Kerry to verify!
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candice Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-05-05 01:54 PM
Response to Original message
16. Do we know this letter is from Kerry? I got it, too and am on his list.
Is this to get Boxer not to stand up?

Have you seen the Raw Story letter that Blackwell sent out for funds to run for governor? Is this real. He brags about delivering Ohio to Bush.
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Goldeneye Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-05-05 01:55 PM
Response to Original message
18. Honestly, what is bad about this?
Edited on Wed Jan-05-05 01:56 PM by Goldeneye
It sounds good to me. I never expected him to come out and say "there is tons and tons of fraud and I'm unconceding." He's watching this from Iraq...a good sign if I could think of one.
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LittleClarkie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-05-05 02:05 PM
Response to Reply #18
43. And an email at THIS particular moment means he knows we are too
He's not saying he doesn't believe there was disenfranchisement. He's saying he KNOWS there was, but not enough to flip the election.

He says HE'S not contesting the electors, but doesn't tell anyone else not to. Even so, his opinion appears to be that his course of action, which is to work for reform, is more effective than that course will be.

I say he's headed in the right direction, but taking a different path.

It is a good thing. I remain proud of him. I will make the calls.
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Goldeneye Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-05-05 02:08 PM
Response to Reply #43
49. I agree completely
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ginnyinWI Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-05-05 02:22 PM
Response to Reply #43
84. actually it is even more than that
"...our legal teams on the ground have found no evidence that would change the outcome of the election."

To me, he is not saying that there wasn't enough fraud committed to flip the election to Bush, but that they weren't able to find enough proof of that fraud, and be able to overturn the election with it.

There's a difference there--between believing he really lost and believing that maybe he really won. I choose to believe the latter!
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LittleClarkie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-05-05 02:27 PM
Response to Reply #84
92. I noted that difference myself
Not lack of fraud, lack of proof.

I always said, unless he had solid proof, I didn't even want him to come out. And knowing Mr. Obsessive Compulsive, he wasn't going to come out without good solid proof. He doesn't have it apparently.

But he's still fighting. Good for him. And I'm still praying for his safe return.

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ginnyinWI Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-05-05 02:41 PM
Response to Reply #92
116. Yeah, and I'm glad to know --
that he knows that for the sake of democracy in this country, we have simply got to fix the election system. Time for everyone to stop hoping for the best and do something real--or the rich-but-evil and-incompetent will always be able to attain and hold power. The winner will always simply be a matter of who is the most ruthless and unethical--that will be who wins!

To me, it is the only thing to focus on until it is fixed--otherwise, who is going to even have enough hope to campaign for any good, honest candidate.
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Blue_In_AK Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-05-05 02:10 PM
Response to Reply #18
55. I agree with you, Goldeneye
He is acknowledging the issues and maybe he can do just as much from within the Senate to bring down the BFEE as he could from the white house. I'm still looking forward to the day when Bush is run out of Washington in disgrace, tarred and feathered, having lost the support of even the Republicans. It's not over yet, no matter what happens tomorrow or who stands or doesn't stand. The cat is out of the bag, or as somebody else said, the toothpaste is out of the tube.

Have faith, people.
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genieroze Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-05-05 02:31 PM
Original message
The pukes could have Satan in the WH and if he was a repugnantkin
they would support him.
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mod mom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-05-05 05:45 PM
Response to Original message
203. they already do!
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rodeodance Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-05-05 07:08 PM
Response to Reply #18
218. I, for one, am very glad to get the email!! Lets light up the phones of
Senators!!!!!!!!!
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rockymountaindem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-05-05 01:55 PM
Response to Original message
20. What is everyone complaining about?
As if I don't already know the answer...
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seabeyond Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-05-05 02:00 PM
Response to Reply #20
31. as i say this down below, this works for me
i get why he did it like this. why he isnt a part tomorrow, and saying it needs to happen tomorrow and there needs to be an investigation. works for me
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Darkhawk32 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-05-05 01:56 PM
Response to Original message
21. I question the timing of this email....
What purpose does it serve really?
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LittleClarkie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-05-05 02:17 PM
Response to Reply #21
73. I questioned the timing too, just below
I say it was done right now for a good purpose, for us to put in the minds of Hassert and Frist that tomorrow's proceeding should lead to hearings at the very least.
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Darkhawk32 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-05-05 02:49 PM
Response to Reply #73
127. Good possibility there. n/t
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In Truth We Trust Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-05-05 01:56 PM
Response to Original message
22. You got our back huh John?!? WTF I see this as complicity and failure
sorry and feel free to flame away with all your thoughts that he has a secret strategy. If he said in this letter: Paper ballots NOW! Hand counts NOW!, then I would have recieved this letter much more optimisticly.

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Broken Acorn Donating Member (590 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-05-05 01:56 PM
Response to Original message
23. I cannot believe this shit
All that crap about Skull & Bones sounded so dumb in the past, but now it makes sense.

How can a man who said he would fight for us go and stab us in the back. How can he not see that fraud was massive?

There goes the Democracy. Welcome to Jesusland.
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Darkhawk32 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-05-05 01:58 PM
Response to Reply #23
26. I prefer Dumbfuckistan n/t
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Avalux Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-05-05 02:00 PM
Response to Reply #23
34. Oh please
How do you know Kerry isn't fighting for us - just not out in the open? It makes sense to me that if a lot of shit goes down tomorrow, he shouldn't be present. I think we are going to be completely blown away by what our Democratic leaders have planned. I might be insane, but that's what I think.
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Amaryllis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-05-05 02:06 PM
Response to Reply #34
46. I sure hope you are right.
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MellowOne Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-05-05 02:16 PM
Response to Reply #34
71. I completely agree with you
He's playing it smart. He can't expose the fraud until it's proven. If he is the one protesting, he looks like a sore loser trying to win the election. If others do the protesting, challenging and investigation, etc., it will look legitimate. He's fighting behind the scenes and probably knows so much more than he is saying. Like in war, you don't give out your attack plan!!!
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Mirwib Donating Member (95 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-05-05 07:00 PM
Response to Reply #34
215. The idea that Kerry is working in the background
is wishful thinking at best.
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sepia_steel Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-05-05 02:27 PM
Response to Reply #23
93. Oh Come On!
Do we have to have everything 100% our way for this to remain a worthy cause? He stillhas work to do, and he will do it. This would be nothing but a circus if he were here tomorrow. It would be a mess. Skull and Bones?? Jeez.
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LittleClarkie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-05-05 02:31 PM
Response to Reply #23
99. It's a letter of support. Where's the backstab
It seems he can see it. He just can't prove it. And unless he can prove it, he can't do boo about it.

That doesn't mean he's a happy camper and everything is cool. He wants to reform the system so this doesn't happen again.

This is what I wanted too. Fix the vote.

See what you want. I see a good thing.
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me b zola Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-05-05 05:42 PM
Response to Reply #99
201. I tend to agree with you
I'm just a little nervous about relying on a repub congress to investigate and reform.

I'm not a vindictive person, however, I will not be satisfied if those who broke federal & state election law are not punished in a harsh way. Even questionable ethical practices that affected the election should be exposed and dealt with in a manner that those people forever lose their right/ability to work/influence another election. I consider our Democracy to be sacred..is this not how it was intended to be?
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noclonyofthechimp Donating Member (656 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-05-05 01:57 PM
Response to Original message
25. I just got the same letter. He states that He will NOT
Tomorrow, members of Congress will meet to certify the results of the 2004 presidential election. I will not be taking part in a formal protest of the Ohio Electors.
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seabeyond Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-05-05 01:58 PM
Response to Original message
27. i am glad to hear this, i am glad to hear from kerry
so he says he cant find it and challenge bush. i will buy it. saying this isnt about him. about doing something about the vote, and he is willing to do that. this is what i ask from the man. i respect this walk. now in the future i will expect to see this go on. he basically encourage the people and congress to challenge tomorrow. this is good. this works. he isnt going to be a part he clearly says, ok, not tomorrow.....but he wants it to happen
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JaneDoughnut Donating Member (402 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-05-05 01:59 PM
Response to Original message
29. We still need a senator to even force a debate.
"Florida 2000 was a wake up call. But the Republicans who control Congress ignored it. Will they now ignore what happened in 2004?"

The Democrats ignored it too. Once again, we still need a senator!
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Liberty Belle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-05-05 01:59 PM
Response to Original message
30. "No evidence that this would change the outcome of the election?"
Is he crazy? He's just undercut any Senator who speaks up to contest the Ohio votes. If the candidate doesn't think the outcome would change, why would anyone speak up?

I'm furious with Kerry for betraying the electorate this way. He'd have done better to say nothing than to do this.

The fraud, suppression, and other illegal tactics took away so many votes that's its frankly impossible to know how many votes each candidate actually received--or should have received, if all the people who wanted to vote had been allowed to do so. But there's clearly enough evidence to show that the election should be declared invalid, and that's what Kerry ought to have said.

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flpoljunkie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-05-05 02:09 PM
Response to Reply #30
54. Whoever controls the tabulator software code, controls the outcome!
As it stands, we have now way to prove they stole the election this way, as computer experts llike Avi Rubin, said he could design code to make the election come out however he wanted--"wholesale fraud"-- and it would "undetectable."

This is what we are up against. I will expect John Kerry to keep his promise and introduce legislation that will make computer voting transparent, voter-verified and mandatory random audits in every county in the nation. Avi Rubin says this is indeed, technogically feasible. Without this electoral reform, the Democrats are doomed in any future elections.
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sepia_steel Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-05-05 02:30 PM
Response to Reply #30
95. If he hadn't said anything at all
Edited on Wed Jan-05-05 02:30 PM by sepia_steel
people would STILL be mad. It seems some people will never be satisfied. We talk about him being all things to all people and then some people are still pissed off when he is not!
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ginnyinWI Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-05-05 02:33 PM
Response to Reply #30
102. I say he is leading this fight
It just may not be in the form and way that everyone expects. But I have learned to expect the unexpected from Kerry. He's a maverick, and he goes about things his own way--and surprises people. So try, everyone, to have a little faith and give him a little credit.
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In Truth We Trust Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-05-05 02:38 PM
Response to Reply #30
111. Me too. He should have stfu before saying this!!! Unfucking believable!
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Vinca Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-05-05 03:16 PM
Response to Reply #30
152. This was the puzzler for me.
No one knows if there are enough votes to change the election because no one has had an opportunity to examine the voting machines and their software. If there was a default set to Bush that was difficult to overcome, there might very well be enough votes to overturn the election.
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luaptifer Donating Member (215 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-05-05 02:00 PM
Response to Original message
32. it'd be THE WORST THING if Kerry was only Senator stepping up
it's GOTTA be someone else, at LEAST!

could you imagine how hot the media frenzy about WHINERS would get?
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Kota Donating Member (658 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-05-05 02:00 PM
Response to Original message
33. Hes asking people to call and ask for election reform.
He says he's not taking part in the "formal protest. But yet he sent this to 3,000,000 people. Informally rallying the troops?
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Pacifist Patriot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-05-05 02:02 PM
Response to Reply #33
36. I think it's between the lines where we're supposed to be reading.
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Kota Donating Member (658 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-05-05 02:05 PM
Response to Reply #36
42. Hasterts gonna have all the power, Kerry wants everyone
to let him know were watching.Even if we have a senator we have to be able to get past Hastert.We should do what Kerry tells us to do.
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ginnyinWI Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-05-05 02:50 PM
Response to Reply #42
130. He knows how Washington works!
He knows that the power of public opinion is one way to get Congress to do something. Getting re-elected to their House and Senate seats is important to every last one of them--and Kerry understands this from the inside. How else to get them motivated? They have to know that they are accountable to their constituents and that we are watching.

Kerry is leading us in this fight--that's why he sent the email. If those of you on this thread think he isn't, they why didn't he just do nothing at all. Trust an insider to know how to motivate these insiders!
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sepia_steel Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-05-05 02:32 PM
Response to Reply #36
101. So do I, Patriot. n/t
People are freaking out. This is not the end.
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femme.democratique Donating Member (969 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-05-05 02:01 PM
Response to Original message
35. Ok, heres my take....
Edited on Wed Jan-05-05 02:01 PM by femme.democratique
"Tomorrow, members of Congress will meet to certify the results of the 2004 presidential election. I will not be taking part in a formal protest of the Ohio Electors."

He doesn't mention that he won't actually be there to protest. He doesn't say however that this should not go forward, nor does he say he'd advised his colleagues to stand-down.

"Despite widespread reports of irregularities, questionable practices by some election officials and instances of lawful voters being denied the right to vote, our legal teams on the ground have found no evidence that would change the outcome of the election."


They haven't found any freakin evidence because we don't have any real access to FIND the freakin' evidence! Also, even if the fraud falls 1 vote short of overturning the election, its still fraud!


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NickiWitch Donating Member (303 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-05-05 02:05 PM
Response to Reply #35
40. I agree n/t
Hopefully they'll get the chance to find something after tomorrow.

Peace!
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flpoljunkie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-05-05 02:21 PM
Response to Reply #35
77. Catch22! Can't find evidence w/o access, tabulator hacking undetectable!
Why do you think the Republicans worked so hard to deny voters even a paper trail! It worked!

But now, we must fix our elections, or all is lost!
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ClassWarrior Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-05-05 02:02 PM
Response to Original message
37. Kerry emails a letter of support to us?? What a traitor!!
Edited on Wed Jan-05-05 02:02 PM by ClassWarrior
He just wants to drink the blood of our children with Dubya and their Skull & Bones cronies!!!

WE'RE ALL GONNA DIEEEEEEEEEE!!!!!

~ This impromptu performance was presented by the DUDQ. <bowing politely> ;) ~

NGU.


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seito Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-05-05 02:06 PM
Response to Reply #37
45. HI CW
OMG, I read the subject of your post, and I almost passed a chicken. That definitely deserves a nomination tonight.

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Amaryllis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-05-05 02:09 PM
Response to Reply #45
53. Nomination?
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seito Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-05-05 02:11 PM
Response to Reply #53
58. The best of the best DU dramatic moments
The DUDQ, DU Drama Queens.
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ClassWarrior Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-05-05 02:11 PM
Response to Reply #45
57. Passed a chicken?!! LOL
Edited on Wed Jan-05-05 02:12 PM by ClassWarrior
If I'd been drinking milk when I read that, it'd be coming out my nose right now. <LOL> Don't want to make you pass a chicken, WP. That would definitely hurt.

NGU.


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Blue_In_AK Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-05-05 02:13 PM
Response to Reply #37
63. Sarcasm?
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ClassWarrior Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-05-05 02:18 PM
Response to Reply #63
74. Performance art by the legendary DUDQ.
<never missing an opportunity to take more bows>

NGU.


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sepia_steel Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-05-05 02:33 PM
Response to Reply #37
103. Hahahaha! Thanks, Warrior. eom
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SlowDownFast Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-05-05 02:57 PM
Response to Reply #37
138. LOL!!!!!!!n/t
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seito Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-05-05 02:03 PM
Response to Original message
38. Sorry Kids
Kerry can't be the Senator to challenge if you want real reform to have legs. This is his call to action. He said he will not challenge, but has urged us to call.

He is NOT a roll over. He is where he needs to be. He can not fight this fight today. This is our fight.

WHY do you think he sent this message out today? :think:

I BELIEVE

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marcologico Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-05-05 02:06 PM
Response to Reply #38
44. right -- Kerry can't freakin' declare himself president!!
(even though he is)
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Raksha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-05-05 06:18 PM
Response to Reply #44
211. That makes sense to me. Kerry can't declare himself President.
So while we're fighting for his presidency (or at least the right to actually elect a president), he's in Iraq showing the world what a real American president looks like. I can go along with that.
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Amaryllis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-05-05 02:13 PM
Response to Reply #38
62. We are not talking about him being the ONE to challenge. We are
Edited on Wed Jan-05-05 02:29 PM by Amaryllis
talking about what kind of impact his letter may have on other's willingness to stand.
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seito Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-05-05 02:35 PM
Response to Reply #62
105. He sent this to US
You have no idea what he sent to members of congress. Was it a Gore style, "Please don't contest the election?" I think not. He wants us to bug the sh*t out of Frist and Hastert TODAY. Why is that? :think: THINK MAN, THINK!!!

He told us that together "We are going to CHANGE history" The challenge will go forth. It is OUR fight and he has NOT abandoned it. Only the people can take back this county now. We WILL do it.

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ginnyinWI Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-05-05 02:56 PM
Response to Reply #105
137. excellently well said!!!
You've nailed it--thanks, seito! He is NOT doing an "al gore" you guys!!

I believed him when he said in the debates, "I've never wilted in my life!" That's the man I stand behind.
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Cheswick2.0 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-05-05 06:09 PM
Response to Reply #137
210. You are damn right he is not doing an Al Gore...he doesn't have the GUTS
Al Gore fought all the way the the supreme court. He fought for 36 days almost singlehandedly while the assholes in his party were calling on him to give it up. kerry gave up in less than 24 hours.

Once the SCOTUS spoke, Gore realized that there was nothing else that could be done legally. He now regrets that decision because he realizes how unlawful bush is.

Kerry had an advantage that Gore did not, hindsight. Kerry could look at the last four years and read the writing on the wall and see that HAVA was a joke and electronic voting is an ISSUE. He could see how horrible bush is. He knows the 2002 elections were fishy to say the least. What the hell has he been thinking? What is wrong with him?

Folks, stop thinking he is speaking to you in code. He isn't. He is not protesting the vote because unless he can take office it is not important to do so. It is all about him.

He can call for all the investigations he wants, but he won't get them. He has NO power. There will be no election reform. The republicans like things the way they are. There is a small chance that if some Democrats do stand up the issue is going to be heard. Other wise forget it. You are never going to hear about this again except here on DU.

Call frist..............lol, WTF good is that going to do? He'll laugh his ass off at you.
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dandrhesse Donating Member (500 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-05-05 07:54 PM
Response to Reply #137
220. ginnyvinWI and seito you get my votes
I am with you guys. Stop and think about whether or not he has "guts". This is the guy who turned his boat into the fire and went at the enemy, I don't think he is afraid of a fight. I do think he knows the difference between knowing someone is guilty and being able to prove it in a court of law.

Another point to think about, does it take more "guts" to take the chance that the entire American public may falsely think you are a coward while doing the work behind the scenes or does it show more "guts" to "stand up for the people" when ultimately you can't do anything about it because you can't make it stick.

The first scenario takes courage. The second one calls for ego.

I'm not implying that anyone else investigating is egotistical because that isn't the case, I'm just saying that the losing candidate even in a fraudulent election looks like a whining sore loser if he makes accusations and can't make anything stick.

Al Gore got screwed, no doubt but the Gore situation was different, he had the popular vote, that's why Bush had to have the popular vote lead this time because the public wouldn't stand for another 2000.

If John Kerry hadn't conceded we would have all "watched" what he did to stand up for us. He got us organized and then he basically told us that he can't do it alone, he said together we will change history. There has to be a large contingent of folks like us in order for this to work. Democracy is not sit and watch and it has come time for us to participate.


John Kerry will come out of this with the admiration he deserves for being willing to sacrifice his reputation and the support of those who doubt him now in order to do the right thing for our country and all of us, in my book that takes a lot of "guts".
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Amaryllis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-05-05 10:06 PM
Response to Reply #105
221. Well, ilt doesn't seem to have stopped any senators. Good point that
we don't know what he told them.
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bunny planet Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-05-05 02:22 PM
Response to Reply #38
79. Thank you for saying this Seito, I am fuming here at how quickly people
are willing to believe the worst about an honorable man. He is in Iraq, getting to the real story of what is happening there to report back to the American people, something our Fearless Leader will not do. It would be counterproductive for Kerry to contest the electors in his own election. His being there would be a distraction. There will be a time for him to enter the fray if this proceeds past the two hour debate.

This letter says nothing that John Conyers himself hasn't said, those are the talking points, it can't overturn the election. If we started talking about overturning the election the *ies would have been all over us like white on rice. Nothing that has been accomplished so far, would have gotten this far with them breathing down our necks. It is about fixing our broken election system, debating what went on that denied voters their civil right and systematically suppressed their votes, and possibly being able to fully investigate the fraud. Kerry is aware of everything we have been doing and everything Conyers has been doing. He is not telling anyone to stand down, as Gore did in 2000. He is with us in this. It just has to be done this way to have any chance of success. I believe this with all my heart.

If one more person mentions Skull and Bones I think I might explode!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1 :grr: :grr: :grr: :grr: That is respectfully, a bunch of BULLSHIT.
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Amaryllis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-05-05 02:49 PM
Response to Reply #79
129. Totally agree with you on Skull and Bones. Now THAT is a conspiracy theory
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MandateThis Donating Member (40 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-05-05 05:04 PM
Response to Reply #129
188. Gore didn't vote to break the tie and he wasn't in skull n bones
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Patsy Stone Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-05-05 02:30 PM
Response to Reply #38
96. I claim this country in the name of FRANCE!
LOL. They'd like a Coup d'Etat.

I Believe.
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seito Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-05-05 02:39 PM
Response to Reply #96
114. Bravo Pats
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sepia_steel Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-05-05 02:34 PM
Response to Reply #38
104. absolutely, seito!
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LittleClarkie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-05-05 05:48 PM
Response to Reply #38
206. Some folks would rather a dramatic grandstand moment that does nothing
Than real reform that has legs. It's as if some want to be entertained by a dog and pony show so they'll FEEL like things are getting done, even if they aren't.

Meanwhile I hear that we are bugging the living shit out of Frist and Hassert today. One person reported the voicemail is full.

I propose a move on to email, my friends. Email, email, email. Use their web forms at www.senate.gov and www.house.gov.
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marcologico Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-05-05 02:04 PM
Response to Original message
39. He's saying it wouldn't change the outcome, but there WAS fraud
"widespread reports of irregularities, questionable practices by some election officials and instances of lawful voters being denied the right to vote"

And if there was fraud, there was crime, and if there was crime, there will be resignations.

It's pretty clear that a decision has been made and there's a coordinated plan to send the Bush boys back to Kennebunkport.
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KoKo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-05-05 02:05 PM
Response to Original message
41. He's asked folks to call Hastert and Frist and urge Election Reform....
I think that's great. I got the impression he wants us to do it now as he asked for reports back to his site to verify.

He didn't say that no Senator should protest....he just says "he" wont be protesting the vote.

Frankly it's better than I'd hoped for from Kerry...it's "veiled support" for what we are trying to do urging our Senators to Protest.

:shrug: At least that's the way I read it.
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marcologico Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-05-05 02:08 PM
Response to Reply #41
48. RIGHT!! Read between the lines
He's telling us to fight on brothers and sisters!
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LittleClarkie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-05-05 02:14 PM
Response to Reply #48
64. Hell, you don't even have to read between the lines! It's right there!
Fight on!

But think about the timing for a moment. Right now, before the possible challenge to the electors, he wants us to call Hassert and Frist. In other words, the challenge should lead to hearings if nothing else.

I wonder if he means thats where he hopes the whole process steers, toward hearings and reform, not a flipped election. Not that I'm playing Lassie games here, just speculating on intent, considering the timing.

It's not what everyone wants exactly, but isn't it a good thing just the same?
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glitch Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-05-05 02:25 PM
Response to Reply #64
89. Playing Lassie games LOL!
You may not be, but I kind of am.
You want us to fight?
Ruf ruf!
But you're not standing formally?
Ruf!
Does this mean you're standing informally?
Ruf ruf!
There was fraud?
Ruf ruf!
But not enough to swing the election?
Ruf!
No one expects a Spanish Inquisition?
Ruf ruf!
Where's Patsy?
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Amaryllis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-05-05 02:52 PM
Response to Reply #64
133. KEEP ON callling and emailing your senators and asking them to stand
don't get distracted from what we need to be doing today!
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In Truth We Trust Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-05-05 02:49 PM
Response to Reply #48
128. Why the fuck is it neccessary to "read between the lines"? Why can't
Edited on Wed Jan-05-05 02:58 PM by In Truth We Trust
this obviously intelligent man come out and call a spade a spade so to speak?

I believe he is trying to leverage our support through us emailing frist and hastert in order to have power in the federal guidelines he is seeking. Thius allows him power in 08 for either himself or someone else whom he aligns himself with. As for you and me, john and jane q public, he has abandoned us period. A man of his intelligence and political knowledge realizes what was perpetrated on the american public on Nov 2. If he was principled and "had our Backs" then he would not only be in DC tomorrow but he too would stand no matter waht you apologists say.

I worked hard for Kerry and he has abandoned me and my family and my country for his pragmatic views.

Paper ballots NOW!
Hand counts NOW!
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seito Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-05-05 02:08 PM
Response to Reply #41
50. You are damn strait
I think it is going to be "phones ringing off the hook" for those two for a loooooooong time :)
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ClassWarrior Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-05-05 02:09 PM
Response to Reply #41
52. BINGO, KoKo... it's better than MOST expected around here.
I think it's pretty damn good.

NGU.


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LittleClarkie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-05-05 02:10 PM
Response to Reply #41
56. And a happy KoKo is a GOOD thing
Anyone else getting a busy signal? I just did on both lines.
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Kota Donating Member (658 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-05-05 02:13 PM
Response to Reply #41
60. He says he wont be a part of the formal protest.
Hes telling us to call, to keep going.
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Pacifist Patriot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-05-05 02:22 PM
Response to Reply #41
80. I don't know about anyone else, but I'm getting busy signals.
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yojon Donating Member (419 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-05-05 02:12 PM
Response to Original message
59. Does he really think Frist and Hastert give a shit?
They want one party rule and now they have it!! He is not so naive as to think that they will vote to change things.

Unless this is a 'setup letter' for some kind of surprise zinger tomorrow, he is being idealistic and naive.
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marcologico Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-05-05 02:15 PM
Response to Reply #59
67. no, he's saying "call your senators and representatives"
Without actually saying it.
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Kota Donating Member (658 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-05-05 02:16 PM
Response to Reply #59
68. He wants 3,000,00 people to call them, and he wants to see
everybody let him know they did. Hastert is the obstacle not getting a Senator. We should all call and email Kerry back.
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seito Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-05-05 02:17 PM
Response to Reply #59
72. Does it matter
I, for one, hope that we bug the sh*t out of them, from this point on. They need to know that the American people are awake and watching. Force them to hire more staff just to "hear our concerns"

This is going to be a long hard fight. Who is up for it?
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ginnyinWI Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-05-05 03:07 PM
Response to Reply #59
145. naive--how could he be?
think about that for a minute. He's been in the freaking Senate since 1984! He's been in politics in some way or another since 1971.
He knows what he's doing. This is how he solves problems--patiently, deliberatively, thoroughly. If anyone can undermine the BFEE it is John Kerry. Look at his record.
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SharonRB Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-05-05 02:13 PM
Response to Original message
61. I feel left out, I didn't get the letter
Thanks for posting it. I'm sorry he feels there isn't enough evidence to overturn the election, but I'm glad to hear that he's going to work on reform for the future. As so many of the other posters on this thread, I agree that he needs to keep a low profile and not make this about him, but about fair elections. I still feel we will see one or several senators stand up with Rep. Conyers to challenge the Ohio vote -- it's not going to be perfect, but it's a start for the future. I've pretty much resigned myself to the fact that Bush will be inaugurated on Jan. 20th, but with enough "hard work," I think there's a good chance he won't finish his term.
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LittleClarkie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-05-05 02:23 PM
Response to Reply #61
86. I didn't get it either, but I'm still making the calls
and reporting back. No luck so far. But I'm on dial up, so I guess I'd better get off the damn internet and try again.
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Broken Acorn Donating Member (590 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-05-05 02:15 PM
Response to Original message
65. Why would he say there's no evidence of fraud?
I can understand if he comes out and says that he's not joining a formal protest of the election (the mention of the protest does give me hope that it's going to happen).

He goes on about how our legal teams on the ground have found no evidence that would change the outcome of the election.

I guess his legal team doesn't talk or read what Arnebeck's been doing.


But, that does not mean we should abandon our commitment to addressing those problems that happened in Ohio. We must act today to make sure they never happen again.


WTF? He applauds our efforts but disagrees that there was any fraud involved.
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garybeck Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-05-05 02:23 PM
Response to Reply #65
85. because he's flying a stealth bomber
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Snivi Yllom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-05-05 02:25 PM
Response to Reply #65
90. or his lawyers think very little of Arnebeck and his claims
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mod mom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-05-05 05:59 PM
Response to Reply #90
208. This was a grassroots investigation: OUR $, OUR TIME, OUR...
EFFORTS. What did his attorneys do? We didn't have subpoena power, we couldn't get ?'s answered from Blackwell and others. This is our fight and regardless WE MUST NOT GIVE UP!!!!
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ginnyinWI Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-05-05 03:11 PM
Response to Reply #65
148. no you missed the phase--
this is the important part: "that would change the outcome of the election." That phrase modifies the statement considerably. He is not saying "not enough fraud", he's saying, "not enough proof"
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OmmmSweetOmmm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-05-05 02:15 PM
Response to Original message
66. No evidence that would change the outcome of the election???
I clicked the link and where it asked for my name etc, I wrote that I was too busy calling Senators to contest the election.

Once again Kerry manages to confuse the hell out of an issue. On one hand no evidence, and the other hand we have to protect the vote in the future..... total BS!

Excuse me while I vent.
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flyarm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-05-05 02:46 PM
Response to Reply #66
123. you go right ahead and vent..i am screaming!!
the ultimate of flip flop crap...we can't change the outcome now, but lets get reform in place for next time..heck so many of us were screaming for this reform this time...we screamed for it here in fla..what in the heck is he talking about..we screamed it to everyone of the kerry people this time!! we had waxman fighting a lonely fight this time and the kerry people ignored it...so whats to make any difference next time..more smoke no fire?? so we in fla are now supposed to believe that after having now 3 elections stolen there will be reform next time...ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh
i am past venting ommmmm..i am screaming now..i vented for 4 years..now i am screaming crazy!! Now...Now ?? we are supposed to believe kerry or any of them..when we screamed it to the roof tops in an excersize of futality fo0r 4 years now??!! we screamed to everyone about these machines...and no one would listen..we were looked at like we had ten heads and given b.s. answers ..like well we can overcome the machines and fraud if we have more voters than the repubs do..i swear to you ...if i heard that answer once , i heard it a thousand times from the kerry folks and the dem party and anyone we could scream it to!!
i brought it up at a breakfast with all the dem reps at the Jefferson jackson weekend, i brought it up with scott maddox dnc state chair, with k meeks with nelson, with corrine brown,and no one wanted to discuss it..i brought it up in tallahassee at delegate meeting...all to get the same blank stare..i went from dem club after club warning nof this , and demanding peoole to write and call , i would even print out hundreds of papers with phone numbers and contact numbers..the people called they wrote , they yelled...and what happened..not one dem representitive went on msm and yelled about it..they never mentioned it ...they never warned people they didnt care..thats what..and now we are to believe reform will take place....hear me screaming??

people i am now convinced..we need amny of you brave souls to run for office...we need people who are not afraid to rock the boat..who will stand with integrity ..who will not be put off by people wanting their votes to count and for people who will really represent the people...think you can't do it..well you can..i never did anything political until this election..and i ran for delegate and i beat out life long politicans,,,i got the highest vote counts for all the women delegates..i tied with another woman..for first place..there were 12 who ran and three elected...we know more than most of these representitves..i sat the last night of convention in a restaurant in our fla hotel next to one of our congress women and i asked her a question about pnac...she had no clue what i was talking about..and i was dumbfounded..i said ..what?? you dont know about pnac and rebuilding americas defences?? she was blank faced and she laughed and said..you only think we know all this stuff...it left me sick to my stomach...she asked me to send it to her...
people people, you know more than most of these people who say they represent us....you care more..run for local offices, run for state offices...we need good people like all of you to make the changes nessesary...we need all of you good people!!

fly
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KittyWampus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-05-05 03:02 PM
Response to Reply #123
140. Please Find A Brown Paper Bag & Breath Into It.
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flyarm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-05-05 03:08 PM
Response to Reply #140
146. i really wish that would help!!! lol...frustrated here!!
thanks for your kind caring though!!

fly :shrug:
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ginnyinWI Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-05-05 03:23 PM
Response to Reply #123
156. you make some good points about the Dems
My only excuse for the Kerry campaign and the rest is that they believed that all of the danger of fraud would be gone if they could just win a clear majority of the votes. Because only in a close, 50/50 election is the opposition able to rig it and not be detected. In an election like Obama's for example, where he had massive support in the polls before the election, they knew they couldn't rig it and have it be believable.

But yeah, they and we knew all year that it was going to be close. I think they did have enough lawyers and observers everywhere, but the GOP just went to the next level--the undetectible rigging of the machines, so once again we were beaten. We need federal laws and to get rid of all unverified voting and voter suppression--we need laws on the books to be able to prosecute precincts that don't comply with those standards. Obviously a lot of people are not interested in democratic elections.
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flyarm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-05-05 04:08 PM
Response to Reply #156
174. what we really need is...
transparent codes to the machines in use that "we" are paying for and that hold the key to our democracy...we need the codes..and we need to get rid of corporate control over our elections..we need verified exit polls where "we the people" have the rights to the information behind the exit polls..we need to pay for it..not the corporate media...we need a peoples exit poll..so when we vote and the election returns are given we hold the key to that info not the media!! this is "our " democracy ..unless we take it seriously by a vast majority of americans..we can kiss it goodbye..i dont mean by those in the grass roots or the part time americans..i mean we all have to become involved full time americans..i am sure you all know as well as i do how many people , friends and family who pay attention for 5 minutes the day before the election...that is no a good recipe for democracy...we have had it to easy..i guess it will take people getting darn uncomfortable before the masses will wake up and smell the roses!!

fly

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Raksha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-05-05 06:32 PM
Response to Reply #174
212. Flyarm: What a great idea buried in that rant!
"we need verified exit polls where "we the people" have the rights to the information behind the exit polls..we need to pay for it..not the corporate media...we need a peoples exit poll..so when we vote and the election returns are given we hold the key to that info not the media!!"

That's an absolutely essential part of election reform and deserves a thread of its own.

BTW, I don't blame you in the least for ranting...God knows I've done my share of it since November 2nd, and not least at the gang I've started calling the corporate Democrats. I'm sure I don't need to explain.
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Laura PourMeADrink Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-05-05 02:16 PM
Response to Original message
70. The ONLY good thing I see in this is that that email went to 3
million people. Which means more will know about fraud. Otherwise, I am utterly and deeply dissappointed. So what if it doesn't change the outcome. It happened and it needs to be exposed. It will be because there are many like me who will never give up on exposing this evil, corrupt, illegitimate, moronic, idiotic, stupid, uncaring, immoral, warmongering, fuckin' idiot.
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LittleClarkie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-05-05 02:20 PM
Response to Reply #70
76. He agrees with you
He's taking his own course separate from tomorrow's proceedings, which he's not participating in. He's pushing for election reform because the email says he knows something is wrong and that it must be fixed.
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southwood Donating Member (74 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-05-05 03:17 PM
Response to Reply #70
154. Good point LPYB.....
Hopefully MSM will have to explain to the 3 million what they have not been reading or hearing about these past three months.
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insane_cratic_gal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-05-05 02:22 PM
Response to Original message
82. We have 24 hrs left. Lets not quibble.
Can we wait to bash one another then? Or Kerry for that matter.

We know this isn't going to change the outcome of the election. The hope is a fool's hope. Can we impeach the * bastard later? You betcha.

Remember that Reps hold on the house and congress is too inbeded. BUT the push to keep investigating, still has to come from us. (it took 1 year after 2000 to "prove" that Gore won it. I suspect it will take that long to prove it again. Roadblock(blackwell) Moyer have ensured will not be heard until Jan 7th.

Since HAVA was an appeasement to that 2000 violation, we have substantial arguments that companies like Diebold, Triad, Es&s, Hart civic. Need to be removed from the OUR voting process. It can't be trusted due to their proprietary software lock-downs, non partisan testing facility, and lack of paper trails (dre's).

Focus. Breathe, National reform is a good thing. A very good thing.

If a senator does stand up tomorrow, you have ensured Democracy is still being fought for. Even if they don't it falls on our shoulders to keep fighting for it. Flinging ourselves into chaos is not going to change anything. Not the outcome, not assurance of fair and free elections. It will not lessen the tampering of votes.

We have to be like a machine on this, moving forward in one direction.
I know it sucks, it's not what I wanted to hear, but I am not surprised it's being said. 2008 is on the mind of Kerry atm, perhaps he fears civil chaos, disobedience, fingers being pointed at him by the GOP should he not come out and say all of the above posted here. Think of the accusations that will be flying around that room tomorrow. He's dodging a slanderous bullet by speaking these words.

Stick together we will see this through till the end.

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TayTay Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-05-05 02:24 PM
Response to Reply #82
87. Maybe this is part of what Conyers wouldn't talk about
this morning on AAR. Maybe there are other things that Dems are planning on doing and really want them to be surprises. This would make sense.
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Alizaryn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-05-05 02:25 PM
Original message
Like he says, we can only be accountable for our own
actions or inactions. This would be a non-issue except that WE WOULD NOT LET IT DIE! So be proud of how far we've come. I can't judge him or anyone else. I think that there is much more on his plate then we can begin to imagine. SO CALL ! (And then have your friends call)
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ginnyinWI Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-05-05 03:29 PM
Response to Original message
157. remember how the 9/11 widows got their investigation--
they raised a big stink and kept at it until they got results!
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Snivi Yllom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-05-05 02:25 PM
Response to Original message
88. Kerry himself says there is no evidence of fraud
Edited on Wed Jan-05-05 02:26 PM by Snivi Yllom
Clearly he is not advocating contesting the election, but he is promoting election reform in a 'long term study'.
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marcologico Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-05-05 02:29 PM
Response to Reply #88
94. He says there WAS fraud, just that it wouldn't have changed the outcome
Or the official outcome anyway, but lots of fraud:

"widespread reports of irregularities, questionable practices by some election officials and instances of lawful voters being denied the right to vote. . ."

And if there was fraud, there was crime, and if there was crime, there will be resignations.
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Snivi Yllom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-05-05 02:36 PM
Response to Reply #94
109. not necessarily fraud
"Despite widespread reports of irregularities, questionable practices by some election officials and instances of lawful voters being denied the right to vote, our legal teams on the ground have found no evidence that would change the outcome of the election."

Nowhere in there did he use the word fraud.
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insane_cratic_gal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-05-05 02:47 PM
Response to Reply #109
124. Nope He didn't
Do you wonder why that is?

The use of the word fraud in regards to this election has been equated to :tinfoilhat:

instances of lawful voters being denied the right to vote, irregularities, questionable practices are all good indications that he knows the deal. We all know the deal. except for a few who refuse to believe that repubs really are the nasty cockroaches of society.
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blm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-05-05 02:35 PM
Response to Reply #88
106. The only way to GET the evidence is to preserve the machines for longterm
EXAMINATION.
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Snivi Yllom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-05-05 02:38 PM
Response to Reply #106
112. assuming there is anything to suggest the election
was tampered with
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insane_cratic_gal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-05-05 02:38 PM
Response to Reply #106
113. Are any under lockdown?
From OH? or any other state for that matter?

Perhaps that should be our next move, and a long over due one if it hasn't been done already.

I know Arenbeck asked for it in his request. But was it given? If so how illegal is it from the stand point of the consitution for them to tamper with the "after results".

That may be a lawsuit in itself.

Keep focusing, nothing has changed by Kerry's statment. I want to keep pushing forward and not be distracted by what he is or isn't doing.
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caligirl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-05-05 02:31 PM
Response to Original message
97.  I want them to hear our powerful voice before Boxer stands up tomorrow fo
Edited on Wed Jan-05-05 02:32 PM by caligirl
I want Frist and Hastert to get hit with a tsunami wave of our collective voices before the EC vote tomorrow. In this way I give Boxer and others some of the support I promised would be there in my fax to her last night.

on edit: spelling
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Verve Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-05-05 02:31 PM
Response to Original message
98. O.K. Stop everything and make those calls! FRIST # is eternally
Edited on Wed Jan-05-05 02:32 PM by Verve
busy but I got a Hastert aide on the 5th try. Soooo KEEP CALLING!

Let's at least keep them so busy that they go looney over this! :crazy:
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caligirl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-05-05 02:36 PM
Response to Reply #98
110. I got Frist after repeat dialing 10 time and left a voice msg. Got
Hastert more easily and left msg with clerk.

Here is an opportunity to make Frist and Hastert miserable with relentless calls before the 6th.
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jules Donating Member (11 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-05-05 02:32 PM
Response to Original message
100. Calling Hastert and Frist
Kerry has asked that we call Hastert and Frist and then report back to him... is it possible that calls to rethugs as well as Dems are necessary????

I'm sure I read a post on this forum yesterday or today where a poster mentioned that a Senate staffer she spoke with on the phone was inferring that calls to rethugs are necessary...

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electropop Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-05-05 02:36 PM
Response to Reply #100
108. Just tried to call
and both lines are busy. I hope this means they are inundated!
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keepthemhonest Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-05-05 03:13 PM
Response to Reply #108
151. yeah itk me forever to
I think I finally got through using the operator

I think it is 202-224-2131
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Quakerfriend Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-05-05 02:35 PM
Response to Original message
107. What I'm upset about is that Kerry keeps saying that
"our legal teams on the ground have found no evidence that would change the outcome of the election"

Listening to Arnebeck, I have to say that I wouldn't agree with this!

I'm pretty pissed at him now. There is tons of evidence of fraud, and that's grounds for a re-vote or a nullified election!!

He can't really believe that through the normal means he's going to be able to affect election reform with this Congress, can he??
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caligirl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-05-05 02:42 PM
Response to Reply #107
117. Call anyway, even still these calls serve a greater purpose that Kerry may
Edited on Wed Jan-05-05 02:42 PM by caligirl
not talk about in the letter. The timing is inescapable. Millions of calls to Frist and Hastert today, the day before the 6th, will drive the point home to these neocon idiots and make a giant statement about the force behind the dems in Washington DC tomorrow.

Make the calls and show our dem Senators they have support and a powerful group behind them.

on edit: spelling again
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jules Donating Member (11 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-05-05 02:45 PM
Response to Reply #117
119. Report your calls
And don't forget to report your call here...

http://www.johnkerry.com/signup/electoral_reform.php


:toast:
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Quakerfriend Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-05-05 02:45 PM
Response to Reply #117
121. Yes, you are right.
Edited on Wed Jan-05-05 02:46 PM by Quakerfriend
Thx for the thought. It is a very smart thing to do right now.
Making my calls now!!
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Amaryllis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-05-05 04:12 PM
Response to Reply #107
175. I am hoping this letter doesn't discourage other senators from standing.
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emulatorloo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-05-05 05:14 PM
Response to Reply #107
193. USE YOUR ANGER AND CALL FRIST AND HASERT AND DEMAND HEARINGS
Speaker Dennis Hastert: 1-202-225-0600
Leader Bill Frist: 1-202-224-3135

And please report that you've made your call right here:
http://www.johnkerry.com/signup/electoral_reform.php
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bleever Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-05-05 02:40 PM
Response to Original message
115. Kerry did NOT say there was no fraud. He was specific:
"our legal teams on the ground have found no evidence that would change the outcome of the election."

Someone else might have. More may follow.

IMO, that's a necessary conclusion of getting the ball rolling.
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dalloway Donating Member (744 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-05-05 02:48 PM
Response to Reply #115
126. I agree and when they get the machines IMPOUNDED
then they'll finally have the EVIDENCE. Read between the lines people! Kerry is in the game!
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troubleinwinter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-05-05 02:44 PM
Response to Original message
118. Yeah, but remember...
"our legal teams on the ground have found no evidence that would change the outcome of the election."

His legal team has JOINED THE SUIT TO PRESERVE EVIDENCE FOR INVESTIGATION.. the machines!!!!

They have thus far been unable to examine the evidence. He does NOT say that it isn't there, but that they have not (yet) been able to find it, as they have been prevented from looking at it.
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mdb Donating Member (398 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-05-05 02:45 PM
Response to Original message
120. Might as well be a letter dated 2001 instead of 2005.
Reform is great and needed and we also needed this from 2001. How many elections will be stolen while while the words reform is needed are used? No kidding reform is needed but this still don't make it alright for THIS election to be stolen.
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dalloway Donating Member (744 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-05-05 02:46 PM
Response to Original message
122. Come on! Make your darn calls and stop moaning about Kerry
He is IN THE GAME as much as he can be without sabotaging the process.

He is not part of the "Formal" protest but he is as sure as heck part of it behind the scenes.

The 3,000,000 calls to Congress are to REMIND THEM that they Have no MANDATE and that we haven't gone away.

He knows the election was stolen and to quote TIA:

They know that we know that they know that we know that Kerry won!

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Carolab Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-05-05 02:52 PM
Response to Original message
132. Hard to find evidence to change the outcome when
they aren't allowing the discovery to move ahead, isn't it, ya'll?

I wish this statement would STOP being made.

IF the evidence had been/were allowed to be collected, it would PROVE he won. IT'S JUST THAT SIMPLE.
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bear425 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-05-05 02:52 PM
Response to Original message
134. Just got the email and tried to call Hastert and Frist...
The lines are jammed!
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Amaryllis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-05-05 03:18 PM
Response to Reply #134
155.  FAX them too! Go here to fax for free:
http://www.thedeanpeople.org /
click link bottom of page and on next page scroll down about half way to fax online.
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keepthemhonest Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-05-05 02:55 PM
Response to Original message
135. Glad he wrote a letter
I am bummed I am still not getting emails from them. I changed email adresses right in the middle of the election. Any way I called the two numbers and urged both of them to challenge the lelction and then went to the link to say that I did it and there is a video to watch. I can't watch it at this office because my computer does not have speakers. BUMMER

Anyone get to watch it?
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Quakerfriend Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-05-05 03:04 PM
Response to Reply #135
142. Just watched.
I believe it's the same video clip shown shortly after the election. Not new.
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keepthemhonest Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-05-05 04:44 PM
Response to Reply #142
184. OK thanks
I was hoping I wasn't going to miss anything.
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candice Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-05-05 02:56 PM
Response to Original message
136. Tally of calls goes to Kerry team. Hastert and Frist will get a foreshadow
ing of what may be happening tomorrow. Blackwell is crowing about his bringing Ohio to Bush (see his letter to get money for his governor's campaign at rawstory.com). I can't image that the Conyers report just out is going to make the Repugs very happy. CALL!
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jules Donating Member (11 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-05-05 03:06 PM
Response to Reply #136
143. calls
I kept redialing and finally got through to Hastert's line.

Reported it to the Kerry URL and after you hit submit it takes you to a link of Kerry's post-election video message.

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davidlynch Donating Member (461 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-05-05 03:00 PM
Response to Original message
139. I Received It n/t
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Poetrygrl Donating Member (16 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-05-05 03:04 PM
Response to Original message
141. I think it's a strategy....
New to the board for posting, though I've been following along with you guys off and on since the election....sorry for just now joining in, but hey, better late than never.

I was soooooo supportive of Kerry that, like a geek, I taped the debates and was literally glued to all the coverage all the time and I can't help thinking back about how ADAMANT Kerry/Edwards was about Counting Every vote..and having watchers at the polls, etc...I just find it unfathomable that he could be so (apparently) Non-chalant (sp?) now....I wonder if his lawyers have him gagged, in order not to "compromise" their investigation?

you know how evidence has to remain "untainted" etc....I wonder if his attorneys are wrangling him and keeping him from saying what he really wants to scream to us and therefore why he's sort of side-ways telling us to read between the lines and get on the ball because tomorrow is crunch time??

Any thoughts? (Thanks for letting me throw my tin foil hat in the ring) :o)
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seito Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-05-05 03:41 PM
Response to Reply #141
163. Hi poetrygrl
I think Kerry is very much in control. He is setting the agenda on long-term reform and accountability. I expect a widespread investigation to come out of this. I expect a national call to arms to make sure it happens.

We are taking back our country. The silent revolution has begun.

BTW, Welcome to DU :hi:
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Poetrygrl Donating Member (16 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-05-05 03:43 PM
Original message
Hi Everyone!
I'm enjoying all your exchanges and agree with most. I think Kerry can't contest his own election and fiercly would if he could.

I wonder where Edwards is and how Elizabeth is doing?
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ginnyinWI Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-05-05 03:41 PM
Response to Reply #141
164. welcome to DU, poetrygrl!
I'm a geek too, because I taped stuff all through the campaign. Agree with you about Kerry's committment. We don't know everything that is going on. You know he was a top prosecuter himself who never lost a case.
My opinion is that he probably knows it is a longshot to be innaugurated, but intends to keep on fighting for what is right.
By the way,I think you'd love coming to the John Kerry group, found under DU Groups. We meet there regularly to recharge our batteries.
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Poetrygrl Donating Member (16 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-05-05 03:45 PM
Response to Reply #164
167. Exactly...a Prosecutor.....Key Word
Edited on Wed Jan-05-05 03:49 PM by Poetrygrl
And as a Prosecutor, we all know they are reluctant to take cases they know they don't have enough evidence to prosecute...but they certainly keep digging until they DO find the evidence...and I think that is what Kerry is looking for. The opportunity to fully investigate and they hopefully IMPEACH the crap out of Bush like they tried to do to Clinton.

He's a very smart guy I think...Kerry.
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katinmn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-05-05 03:06 PM
Response to Original message
144. Got the email, made the call
It is something.

I didn't expect him to contest, others probably will.

Keep the faith.

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Generator Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-05-05 03:10 PM
Response to Original message
147. Kerry earns my respect again
Some of you (those that aren't secretly trolls) are living in a fantasy world.

You seem to have no idea how much Kerry is maligned by the press. You seem to have no idea how fast those that supposedly had his back were quick to turn against him. You seem to have no idea how much power this gang of thugs that occupies our halls of government has.

Does Kerry have the support of Clinton? Of the majority of the congress? Of the media?

No no and no. Just for starters.

Him standing up and contesting his own election without demonstrable proof would make him a living joke. The media would tear him to shreds.

IT doesn't take much for our own to tear him to shreds now.

He addressed the concerns. He is asking YOU to to do something. He's aksing YOU to keep up the fight. Again, folks, the difference between those that call themselves Democrats in 2005 and those that call themselves Republicans is the difference between wrong and right.

We understand the difference. It's about doing the right thing.

It's not about winning. That will take awhile.

Maybe he was so so wrong to conceede so early, maybe not. Maybe that allowed this movement to get going. The one thing I'm sure of is Kerry understands just how rotten the system is and what he's up against. Do you?

"That's why I will soon introduce legislation to reform our election system, ensuring transparency and accountability in our voting system and that all Americans have an opportunity to vote and have their vote counted."

Wow. I suppose it would be better if he took up arms and contested the election. Good lord, you can't even get a large number of people in the streets to contest it. Without YOU Kerry is nothing.

Get it people-you are the government. Not this one man.
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woeisme Donating Member (8 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-05-05 03:13 PM
Response to Original message
150. STRATEGY: Let others take the lead in rvealing fraud n/t
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info being Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-05-05 03:17 PM
Response to Original message
153. I don' have time to call Senators all day. THAT'S YOUR JOB, JOHN.
This is a REPRESENTATIVE democracy and we expect our representatives to represent us.
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kerrygoddess Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-05-05 03:37 PM
Response to Reply #153
160. Get over yourself !
It's WE THE PEOPLE!

Stand up for your rights!

It's laziness like this that is half the damn problem with our country and Democrats!
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seito Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-05-05 03:43 PM
Response to Reply #153
165. sigh...
Edited on Wed Jan-05-05 03:44 PM by seito
I can't be bothered. It is not my job. :boring:
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Debbie13 Donating Member (176 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-05-05 03:35 PM
Response to Original message
159. Thanks for the post. I did not get. I tried, but both #'s busy
I hope it's ringing off the hook.

LOL
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Poetrygrl Donating Member (16 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-05-05 03:41 PM
Response to Reply #159
162. Just Busy signals
Just keep getting busy signals, but will keep trying.
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Scout1071 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-05-05 03:44 PM
Response to Original message
166. I've been trying to call, nothing but a busy signal. Way to go Dems!
If I didn't know any better, I'd say the wheels of justice are beginning to turn.....
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Poetrygrl Donating Member (16 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-05-05 03:52 PM
Response to Reply #166
170. Does Kerry's Phone Reporting page report total Calls?
Anyone who's gotten through and was able to report it to the link Kerry directed us to, are there any totals there to know how many calls have gotten through? (or been reported?) Just curious...

I hope people don't submit without actually calling...that would be a bummer.

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caligirl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-05-05 05:27 PM
Response to Reply #170
197. I got through this morning and reported it back to the Keryy site
in the letter. No I did not notice a total for calls. You just put your name and email in the boxes and submit. Then you can opt to see the video he put out after the election.
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stillcool Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-05-05 03:51 PM
Response to Original message
168. I got in touch with both...
The woman who answered Frists' phone was very nice, and said they were getting a ton of calls. I can't believe it but I think I actually read a post that making a phone call was too much to ask. Friends like those...geesh! Different groups have been asking to have phone calls made all week. I guess that was probably a bit too taxing as well. What a bummer this place is sometimes.
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marieaey Donating Member (65 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-05-05 03:51 PM
Response to Original message
169. Watch the video
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Poetrygrl Donating Member (16 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-05-05 04:02 PM
Response to Reply #169
171. It's an excellent Video
I'd seen that a few weeks ago, but it's an excellent video...is there a hidden message in there? About "changing History" and "rolling up our sleeves" is he again trying to tell us about the beginnings of tomorrows events? (or am I just another one of those conspiracy theorists? hmmm.....I think Kerry likes to encode things and hope we figure them out...maybe he hopes the *ies are too dumb to understand what he's saying (he's probably right about that! heh)
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sojourner Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-05-05 04:04 PM
Response to Original message
172. Couldn't get through on phone lines (GOOD SIGN?) Here's my
Edited on Wed Jan-05-05 04:09 PM by sojourner
letter (faxed to both Frist and Hastert, with appropriate changes in salutation, etc.)

"I am writing because of a deep concern for the allegations of election irregularities that occured in Ohio, Florida and other states during the most recent Presidential election.

As a government leader and elected representative, you recognize that the participation by citizens in the selection of their representatives through the casting of ballots is a cornerstone of our democratic system. This has been our pride for over 200 years, and is a system we have exported to other nations in our rightful beleif in its superiority. Yet there are serious problems in the electoral process in the United States of America.

You are no doubt aware of problems being reported in Washington state, where Republican candidate D. Rossi is seeking a revote to overthrow the gubernatorial election recount results which found his Democratic opponent, C. Gregoire to have won. This example serves to illustrate how this is an issue that truly transcends partisan concerns.

Tomorrow, Democratic House member Conyers will rise to challenge the Ohio electoral vote. In doing so, he does not attempt to overthrow the result of the general election, as Mr. Rossi of Washington is doing.

He does, however, bring to attention a number of serious problems (including instances of criminal wrongdoing) in connection with this year's general election - problems that served to deprive many thousands of American citizens of their right to participation in a representative government.

In the face of such problems, a thorough investigation and serious consideration of the issue is warranted. Although there are suspicions of fraud on the one hand, and accusations of "conspiracy theory" misinformation on the other, the course of wisdom would be to investigate and let the evidence stand on its merits.

I firmly believe that voter intimidation and voter disenfranchisement should be seen as problems in a free democratic society, as it is through the selection of our leaders that We the People give our consent to be governed. Without legitimate elections, conducted in the most transparent manner, we can have no confidence that one party or another might not "steal" elections in order to dominate and press their partisan agenda. In such a government, especially in such divided times as there, the legitimacy of elected leaders may be questioned and, as the Ukraine just demonstrated, even rejected.

To discount Representative Conyers' efforts would be to approve of the disenfranchisement and the criminal conduct his investigation has uncovered. We expect that as Leader of the United States Senate you will protect the interests of the People of the US and of the Constitution upon which our democracy rests.

Please help all Americans regain confidence in our "broken" electoral system. Take the high road and allow a real discussion and investigation into this issue."
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sojourner Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-05-05 04:06 PM
Response to Reply #172
173. already sent so no good to find my spelling errors!
Edited on Wed Jan-05-05 04:07 PM by sojourner
:eyes:
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pointsoflight Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-05-05 04:27 PM
Response to Reply #172
177. A most excellent letter. n/t
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Withywindle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-05-05 04:25 PM
Response to Original message
176. What really struck me about this...
...is WHO he asked us to call. (And yes, I do think it's tacit encouragement to call other Senators too, but...) I mean, we can harrass Boxer and Feingold and Obama and the like until the cows come home, and it's good that we do--but that's not where the power is, and we know it. Not the votes, and not of the "conventional wisdom" media narrative. Progressive Democrats' offices will be friendly to us, but their hands are tied. Unless we put Republican creeps actually running the show like Hastert and Frist on notice that the PEOPLE demand this, then contesting the votes and wanting fraud investigated will be written off as just another wacko far-left whine.
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Debbie13 Donating Member (176 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-05-05 04:32 PM
Response to Reply #176
180. Yes, Yes, that sounds right!
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FreepFryer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-05-05 05:19 PM
Response to Reply #176
194. It is also saying "Our house (sic) is in order, please deluge the GOP."
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Junkdrawer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-05-05 04:37 PM
Response to Original message
181. Dear John:
So long as the mainstream media of this country ignores this issue, I guarantee the (illegitimate???) Republican majority in the House and Senate will ignore the issue.

They need a wake-up call. They need an embarrassment that the world's press will not ignore. That is why I support the Democratic Party's rejection of Ohio's delegates tomorrow.

Sincerely,
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Patsy Stone Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-05-05 04:39 PM
Response to Original message
182. Me too.
I didn't call Hastert and Frist yet, but I did email Bill Nelson this morning. I love that video and I could watch it everyday. OK, sometimes I do.

Go, JK! Let's get some real election reforms in place.

Also, the site is now sponspred by "Friends of John Kerry." Is that us? I want to be his friend...

:loveya: JK!
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Helga Scow Stern Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-05-05 04:47 PM
Response to Original message
185. Link to Hastert and Frist fax and voice DC and local offices. Please call!
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...

and report it to Kerry on the link above in the OP.
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blm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-05-05 04:59 PM
Response to Reply #185
187. I FINALLY got through. Don't stop calling folks.
Ask for a congressional investigation and hearings.
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Poetrygrl Donating Member (16 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-05-05 05:08 PM
Response to Reply #187
191. Frists Voice Mailbox is FULL
Got through, but said mailbox is full...goodbye.

Bummer! :o(
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blm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-05-05 05:12 PM
Response to Reply #191
192. I actually talked to a staffer.
He must have thought I was a Repub calling from a red state.
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ally_sc Donating Member (238 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-05-05 04:49 PM
Response to Original message
186. thks for posting that. i really appreciate it. eom
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Kota Donating Member (658 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-05-05 05:07 PM
Response to Original message
190. Counting on you to make sure votes get counted.
Is that in the e-mail or did you add it. If he said it, it speaks volumes.
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NMDemDist2 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-05-05 05:22 PM
Response to Original message
195. i got it too, and am calling my congresscritter and senators
I don't care if they are right wing @ssholes all three, they are going to hear from me today!
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roenyc Donating Member (824 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-05-05 05:24 PM
Response to Original message
196. Randi Rhodes went nuts when she read this
wanted to know what kind of skull and bones crap this was. thank goodness conyers called her and calmed her down.

she was really P.O'd. i love her honesty. maybe she is right or wrong but she says what she feels. and many of us had that feeling on and off for awhile.

she is still upset with Kerry for not standing with the Dem's. i do think something is up with Kerry cant figure him out. very introverted man.
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Laura PourMeADrink Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-05-05 06:59 PM
Response to Reply #196
214. I was livid too! But you are right about him. He is very measured
in everything he does. He has probably thought about the whole situation from a million different angles. And he KNOWS, if they were devious enough to do what they did, he's trying to outfox them. We know election crimes were committed, but we don't know HOW they did it -- which is what everyone is mistaken as the "proof". We have the proof, we just don't have the method or the precise suspect.
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La Femme Donating Member (83 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-05-05 05:28 PM
Response to Original message
198. Phone Calls
I've been trying all afternoon with no luck getting through to Hastert. I was able to finally get through to Frist's voice mailbox but it was full, so I could not leave a message.

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xiamiam Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-05-05 05:42 PM
Response to Reply #198
202. both mail boxes are full..nt
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robbedvoter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-05-05 05:46 PM
Response to Original message
204. Translation of the letter - from another thread
Edited on Wed Jan-05-05 05:48 PM by robbedvoter
Tom Rinaldo (1000+ posts) Wed Jan-05-05 05:16 PM
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...
18.I have a translation of Kerry's letter
Posted it on one other thread so sorry if it's a dupe to you:
"We lost, get over it, but don't get over the
importance of every vote counting. Although in this
case all the votes weren't counted, in this case it
doesn't really matter, but in some other case it would
matter, and it matters that we say it matters. But
don't say that it mattered in this case.
There were some troubling irregularities and
disturbing questions remain unanswered, but we know
that the answers to those unanswered questions would
have no effect on this election. The Republicans
really should do the right thing this time to clean
things up, although they should have done the right
thing last time to clean things up also, but since
they won both last time and this time, give them a
call and ask for their help, since they are now in
charge.
And remember, irregularities are a part of life.
That's why people use Ex-Lax. If it weren't for
irregularities discount stores would have nothing to
sell, so really irregularities are not overly
alarming, just a teensy bit alarming, so don't rock
the boat about this past election but it is OK to
write a letter about it. But remember, certain words
are just too divisive to use in mixed company, and
it's not only Democrats who live in America. We have
to be considerate of our Republican neighbors. Words
like lies, liberal, and fraud, those are all fighting
words. People fight over words like that and it would
be better if we could be more civil. Less combative
words are readily available.
I chose to acknowledge voting "irregularities", and I
am standing up to say that I wish they would stop.
Please join with me in opposing voting irregularities,
in a limited context anyway. We all understand that a
certain amount of irregularities will always be
inevitable. Much more study is needed to ensure that
American voters are not subjected to an excessive
amount of such irregularities, or, in other words,
more irregularities than they are willing to accept.
The bottom line is all votes should be counted and the
overwhelming majority of those votes should be counted
accurately. And it would greatly help to be confident
that that was truly the case, which we can't be
confident of now. Still, I am confident that I lost
this election. But don't worry, I have your back.

To clarify - I called, wrote my senators, rep - much as I know it's an exercise in futility - as much as it was in 2000 when Kerry declared: "No one asked me - not that it would have made any difference"
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Diane R Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-05-05 05:46 PM
Response to Original message
205. Encouraged by letter....tip on making calls
I am encouraged by this letter. I think it is brilliant, and I found a lot of encouragement in it's contents. Remember, there is still a hearing in Ohio on the 7th on Kerry's request to protect the voting equipment.

Anyway, it sounded to me like he is telling us a Senator is on board. In any event, this is not the time to quibble; it is the time to act. He has asked us to do something, and rather than complaining, why not just do it? Debate about it at a later date.

Both voiceboxes were fill. Frist's line just hung up. Hassert's gave the option of typing in a last name to be connected to. So, I (of course) typed in Hassert. Bingo. I got connected to another voicemail system.

Don't give up when you hear the voicebox is full. If you keep clicking other options, you'll probably get to leave your message.
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Misskittycat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-05-05 05:50 PM
Response to Original message
207. As a lawyer, I think the key phrase wasn't done as well as possible.
Lawyers practice for years in the art of bullshit and saying things without actually saying them. I thought the key phrase about the "legal team" on the ground and the "evidence" could have been worded a bit more artfully -- namely, it could have been a bit more ambiguous. When I first read it, it felt like a bucket of cold water thrown on me.

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Laura PourMeADrink Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-05-05 06:54 PM
Response to Reply #207
213. I agree with you! I was thinking he could have said something like
We DON'T KNOW if the people who didn't get to vote would have been enough in numbers to overturn the election. Disenfranchisment is difficult to measure.
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sendero Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-05-05 06:08 PM
Response to Original message
209. Let me get this straight...
.... if we call Frist and Hastert they will do something? Is that it?

Because if that is it, you people need to put down the kool-aid, NOW.
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Mirwib Donating Member (95 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-05-05 07:13 PM
Response to Original message
219. I respect Kerry for sending this email

Personally, I am not a "Kerry-er", i.e., one who believes that Kerry can do no wrong. I still think that the media miss-reported the "I have a scream" speach from Dean to take the nomination away from him.
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