Gavin Newsom's contribution to the Kerry downfall

[nine30]

Why did the SF mayor have to take such a controversial step during an election cycle ? Couldn't he have waited ?

This put Kerry in a very difficult position. On the one hand he couldn't directly oppose gay marriage,and on the other he couldn't properly explain his position to middle america. The semi-literate, "God fearing" middle americans do not comprehend nuanced or complex issues, and this gave Bush Co. a huge opening to hammer away on two fronts -- One, that he didn't share their values, and two, that he didn't have clear positions on anything.
On election day a lot of these folks came out to vote strongly motivated by the gay marriage proposition, and voted for GW along the way. Just see how the bill did in all the red states.

And as we all know now Kerry paid a huge price for it in the mother of all battleground states.

[mountainvue]

1. What did

Gavin newsome do?

[The Backlash Cometh]

3. Oh, I'm going to get pelted for this.

He was the first to allow gay marriages. Once he did this, he played into the hands of conservatives who claimed that liberals were pushing a gay agenda.

[skylarmae]

2. didn't it really start in Mass. - ?

[The Backlash Cometh]

4. I think Mass. was the first to pass a law?

[sandnsea]

14. Gavin took the focus off of Mass

Which was very helpful. Oregon followed. Then New York and maybe a few other places. So it at least became a nationwide issue, which we should have followed through with. We let them turn it back into a Massachusetts liberal issue.

[AlCzervik]

5. This is about the 10th thread on this

The GOP will find any issuie at this point and use it, this time it was gay marriage and next time it will be abortion. It will always be something so blame the bigots that voted against it.

[Not Me]

6. Gavin Newsom did what he believed was the right thing to do

I will never fault anyone, regardless of the timing, for doing the right thing.

[freetobegay]

7. Thats right blame it on the homosexuals!

Why should we be the same class citizen as you. :eyes:

[AlCzervik]

10. I'm so fucking tired of people looking for scapegoats in this

I'm sorry gays are taking the blame for this heere, i really am. thats not what we are about, we are the party of civil rights and human rights.

[Smarmie Doofus]

21. I don't feel we're being "blamed"....

I think it's a legit question to ask whether or not, under these circumstances, AT THIS PARTICULAR POINT IN TIME, it was a good idea to push the marriage issue as much as the gay politicos did.

Not saying this "caused" or even contributed to Tuesday....but it did not HELP and many level-headed analysts predicted same ( ie. that the TIMING of the marriage issue was not good) MONTHS ago

One has to look at the big picture.

Paul

[GreenPartyVoter]

8. I was rooting for Matt, but I don't buy that Gavin did this with

nefarious intent.

It's all about the voter fraud.

-----------------------------------------------------------
FIGHT! Take this country back one town and state at a time!
http://www.geocities.com/greenpartyvoter/electionreform.htm

[Inland]

9. I agree:

if nothing else, the fact is that these issues seem to be raised in the most hodgepodge, unconvincing and yet unfailingly aggressive way.

I can't think of a method--leaving aside whether the substantive stand of gay marriage could ever win a majority--more likely to make enemies and fail to influence people than city mayor openly flaunting the law as it was written. Close second is for a liberal state judge to overturn laws. Neither was a substitute for trying to convince Americans, and I said so to many people at the time---to be accused of being unsympathetic to gay marriage, when I only saw a real possibility of gay marriage being set back for two or three hundred years. By the bye, 11 states amended their constitutions to forbid it, and guess what is going to reappear in the next congress?

And it isn't just gay marriage. That's just symptomatic of how social issues, which should be winners for dems, turn into incredible losers every time through complete and absolute bungling and failure to even try to grab the vast middle.

[tedzbear]

11. The gay card is to deflect attention from the voter fraud...

such as the Diebold issue and the Greg Palast hanging chad accusations. They will play the gay card as long as it works.

[Raster]

12. Please, quit blaming Gavin Newsom. He actually took a very courageous...

...stand, and I thank him for it.

We are dealing with religious fanatics that believe, or at least tell their followers they believe, that they are in personal communication with the Almighty. These fanatics are the same type and calibre of fanatics in other religions, namely Muslim fanatics. You cannot reason with a fanatic. They are right, they act with the blessing of God and therefore ANYTHING they do is beyond reproach.

I am sick and tired of the blame game. That will get us nowhere. We are dealing with a group of people who have and would have done ANYTHING, I MEAN ANYTHING to retain their power. $hrubco losing the election was NOT in the cards or the ballots. Believe me, the conspiracy theorists are really not very far off of the mark with this group.

It's time we accept the fact that we are not dealing with rational, fair-minded individuals. Their goal was to win at any costs. It's time we rethink our strategy. We cannot deal logically with those that refuse to accept logic.

[not fooled]

18. Agree that it's not his fault...who knew voters would be so stupid??

As to give such great weight to this issue as to hve it outweigh blatant * screw-ups such as Iraq, the hideous economy, unemployment, etc.?

[illumn8d]

13. Newsom is a tool...but not because of this... (EOM)

[Gyre]

15. I'm so fucking sick

of somebody's sexuality being the focus of public policy debates. I couldn't care less. I don't think it's an emergent issue; I don't think it merits the kind of international attention it gets. Do any of you? If so, can you explain to me why it's so damn important, right now? Please share. I'm open to learning why I should care deeply about this to the exclusion of other issues.

One question I have is if civil unions are legally recognized, are you home? Is that what you seek? Or is there more?

Gyre

[noiretextatique]

16. it was most important to the rw as a wedge issue

and it worked...even among democrats. as to gays...use your imagination. partners of several years can't even visit their loved one in a hospital, not so with married people. health insurance, social security, tax issues...a number of things are denied to people who can't legally marry.

[President Jesus]

17. Newsom did the right thing, and should not apologize for it.

Yes, in reality, it probably did add a couple million votes to Bush. But one should never back down from doing the right thing because it might cause a backlash. Great social change in this country comes form people who are not running for president.

Here's what blows me away:
http://www.cnn.com/ELECTION/2004/pages/results/states/US/P/00/epolls.0.html

25% GLBs voted for Bush. Wha?????

[jacksonian]

19. he did not do what is right

and I believe in allowing gay marriage. But the original post isright, gays have waited a long time, pushing it like that gained nothing.

The Massachusetts thing was at least handled seriously. There was a Supreme Court decision, then a Mass Supreme Court decision. But a rogue mayor acting before the state apparatus had ruled pushed things into panic mode.

But I also think it was just on the Repug radar all along. They wanted this, and it was a bastardly thing to pull as well. They don't give a fuck about anything - and tossing gays to the lions was the lowest trick I have ever seen.

[robbedvoter]

20. Oh, stuff it already with the GOP bigotry. Kerry won - it was stolen

Kerry didn't want to bother to fight it.

[Bluebear]

22. Gay Marriage Backlash Not Felt in Mass.

http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/ap/20041104/ap_on_re_us/gay_marriage_massachusetts_1

BOSTON - The national Election Day backlash against gay marriage never reached the state blamed for triggering it: Every Massachusetts lawmaker on the ballot who supported gay rights won another term in the Legislature.


The election outcome, combined with the ascendancy of a new state House speaker who supports gay rights, has left in doubt the fate of a proposed constitutional amendment to ban gay marriage in Massachusetts.

The amendment, which would also legalize civil unions, won first-round approval from lawmakers earlier this year. It must be approved again by the newly elected 200-member Legislature before it can be submitted to the voters for ratification in November 2006.

"I think we are in a far, far better position than ever before," said Josh Friedes, spokesman for the Massachusetts Freedom to Marry Coalition. "The electorate showed that it was incredibly tolerant."