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WilliamPitt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-30-04 12:05 PM
Original message
This may wind up getting locked
Edited on Thu Dec-30-04 12:15 PM by WilliamPitt
but I'm going to run it up the flagpole and see if anyone salutes it.

Regarding the banning of TIA:

I've been here since May of 2001, and have seen more than a few long-time posters whose work I valued get tombstoned. I, myself, skated the ragged edge of banning on more than a few occasions, but that is a story for another day.

On several occasions, way back when, I would become furious when the admins nuked someone who had been around a while. One night, I even publicly demanded a sympathy banning, and gave the admins no end of grief.

I have come to realize over time, however, that the admins do not act precipitously on these things, and that someone who gets shown the door had done something to bring it on. For long-time posters, that 'something' is usually a repetitive breaking of the rules that he or she was repeatedly warned about.

In other words, the admins know what they are doing.

The hard part about assessing a situation like this is that you nor I nor anyone but the mods and admins have a full picture of the situation. When a rule gets broken, the post gets deleted. It is impossible for any poster to keep an eye on what happens in multiple threads over time.

The mods and admins have the advantage of a) Getting alerts and seeing posts before they get nuked, and b) A special moderator forum where these things are collected and discussed before any action is taken. They are also, by the way, eminently fair in the meting of justice on these matters.

I do not say this to attack TIA. Like you, I value his work immensely. But I have come to know that putting my money on the judgment and fairness of the admins is a safe bet. I also know, from personal experience, that even long-time posters are subject to DU rules, and if those rules are not obeyed, there are consequences.

I will also, by the way, bet my shoes that if TIA opens a dialog with the admins on the situation, he will be reinstated. That is the other part of the fairness of the Blue Man Group.

On edit: If the mods choose to lock this for clearly breaking the 'discussion of banned members' rule, I will completely understand. Probably, it should be locked. I just wanted to get the other side of the story out here. I was seeing a lot of anger.
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dpbrown Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-30-04 12:06 PM
Response to Original message
1. Who's TIA?
Just wondering.
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WilliamPitt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-30-04 12:06 PM
Response to Reply #1
2. TruthIsAll
A poster here who puts together statistical analyses of the election. Very interesting and compelling stuff.
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Must_B_Free Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-30-04 12:20 PM
Original message
Compelling for a while
then it just starts to sound like more of the same old meaningless bullshit, trying to work people into a frantic state, always IN ALL CAPS!!!! OMG!!! PROOF!!! THIS PROVES IT THIS TIME!!! I AM SERIOUS!!!


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NJCher Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-30-04 12:07 PM
Response to Original message
3. I hope he is reinstated
He is a major attraction and a big asset to DU.


Cher
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salin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-30-04 12:07 PM
Response to Original message
4. wow... I missed that
seems like I just read something by TIA very, very recently.
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loudsue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-30-04 12:13 PM
Response to Reply #4
15. He just got banned this morning, Salin.. and I'm not as OK with it as Will
I've been really getting tired of the naysayers who have been baiting and harrassing TIA. But THEY aren't the ones getting tombstoned.

No, I didn't read TIA's "offending" post(s), but I know he's worked his ass off, and a lot of his information has been the basis of SOME of what has made it into Kerry's / lawyers case.

I'm REALLY pissed about TIA's being thrown off.

:kick:
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Stephanie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-30-04 12:14 PM
Response to Reply #15
18. Is the thread still there?
I'd like to see what's left of it.
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salin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-30-04 12:17 PM
Response to Reply #15
26. didn't agree with all of his analyses
but thought his work was interesting. Generally got the feel that he kept sharing information but didn't do a whole lot of discussion (eg then going into heavy battle mode). But that is a longer-view perception. He used to be more combative and really toned down and stuck to his analyses. Read what seems to be the consensus as "the" thread and it does appear that he was being baited. DIdn't watch the dynamics on all of the threads - but if he was being perpetually baited... I guess it was only inevitable that he would eventually rise to strike back. As I said he used to be more combative. I would hope that the mods would take into account that he has a long history and for a very long time avoided heated contests... and will look to see if there was an apparent campaign to push him to this point and take that into account as well.

I do have to agree with Will, though. I have watched longtimers be banned and some come back with great success - the mods and admin in the end do tend to be very fair.
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Malikshah Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-30-04 12:20 PM
Response to Reply #15
30. You hit it on the head-- baiters and harassers
They don't got tombstoned--and of course when one notes all the warning signs, the patterns of activity-- that's called "calling out" people--strictly verboten.

Sorry Will-- I think a lot of folks have had enough of trusting those who know best after four+ years of this administration. C'mon now and lets get a real dialogue started--not just tombstoning good people.

What are folks afraid of?

Sorry, but this is beyond the pale.

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WilliamPitt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-30-04 12:25 PM
Response to Reply #30
40. I don't even know what that means
If you are conflating the admins here with the admin in DC, as you seem to be, that is simply gibberish.

This foum has rules. There are hundreds of other forums without rules. There are options if you are 'fed up' or whatever.
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NMDemDist2 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-30-04 12:09 PM
Response to Original message
5. agreed Will, I knew this was not an action the admins would take
on a whim
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lonestarnot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-30-04 12:09 PM
Response to Original message
6. I haven't been around long enough to recognize a Tia
post but I hate to see anyone banned for any reason. All have something to offer. If the post is dirruptive and offensive move on to the next.
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MajorFlaw Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-30-04 12:09 PM
Response to Original message
7. Will, do you have a link to what TIA was banned for.
n/t
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WilliamPitt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-30-04 12:11 PM
Response to Reply #7
10. No idea
Again, the posts in question have been deleted.
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MajorFlaw Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-30-04 12:15 PM
Response to Reply #10
20. On its face, I don't like it. If someone gets banned for saying something
I think we should be able to read what they wrote and form our own opinions. I've been reading TIA's posts for many months and I can't imagine him saying something which would deserve banning. If he did, let's see it. Is there a Mod statement on this?
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WilliamPitt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-30-04 12:16 PM
Response to Reply #20
24. Probably
They don't make the rules up on the fly. Leaving inflammatory and rule-breaking posts up has a bad effect on things.
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Clinton Crusader Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-30-04 12:09 PM
Response to Original message
8. TIA was banned? WHAT HAPPENED???
He did such great work with the election models. Boy, Ive been away too long!
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stellanoir Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-30-04 12:21 PM
Response to Reply #8
33. here is a link
to the his last thread posted last eve. . .

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...

I too truly hope they'll reconsider, will miss his diligently compiled stats, and will be totally aware of his (hopefully temporary) absence.
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Clinton Crusader Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-30-04 12:26 PM
Response to Reply #33
41. thanks stellanoir -Im just stunned. n/t
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msongs Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-30-04 12:11 PM
Response to Original message
9. Major elected DEMS to protest election results in huge press conference...
ha ha ha just kidding. we know that 99% of elected democrats would never
do anything to challenge election results because that is not being nice to the cheaters, and being nice to cheaters is preferred to fighting for the rights of all the people who voted for DEMS in the recent election.*

Msongs
Riverside CA
www.msongs.com/political-shirts.htm

* Washington state and John Conyers and affiliates excepted.
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crispini Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-30-04 12:12 PM
Response to Original message
11. A good, sane post. Thanks Will.
It's been a rough few days around here recently. Very weird. I think there is something karmically bad going on. :(
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SmokingJacket Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-30-04 12:12 PM
Response to Original message
12. You may be right...
but it's very disappointing when people whose posts you enjoy are gone. A real loss.

Please appeal, TIA!!!
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King Coal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-30-04 12:12 PM
Response to Original message
13. Hey I just heard that quote in 12 angry men!
"but I'm going to run it up the flagpole and see if anyone salutes it."

You must have watched that too, Will.
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WilliamPitt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-30-04 12:13 PM
Response to Reply #13
16. One of my all-time favorites
:)
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Stephanie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-30-04 12:15 PM
Response to Reply #16
21. Now on Broadway - you should go
Excellent production
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King Coal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-30-04 12:20 PM
Response to Reply #21
32. I would love to, but alas, I live in New Mexico.
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xultar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-30-04 12:12 PM
Response to Original message
14. Agreed, we all make mistakes in the heat of the moment. What is kewl
is that the Admins have always been fair. I respect them and their judgement.

BTW, Will, what kinda shoes do you have since you are putting them on the table?
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WilliamPitt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-30-04 12:14 PM
Response to Reply #14
17. Nice pair of harness boots
so I don't say this lightly. ;)
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xultar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-30-04 12:18 PM
Response to Reply #17
27. Hummmmm I need you to pose in them neekid before I put my $$ down
can you do that for me? ;)
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troubleinwinter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-30-04 12:20 PM
Response to Reply #17
31. Sounds kinky.
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whalerider55 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-30-04 12:14 PM
Response to Original message
19. I've also been away
I found TIA, when I found him to be informative and thoughtful.
I agree that the admin lack whimsy in their banning decisions; I hope it can get worked out.

whalerider55

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nothingshocksmeanymore Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-30-04 12:15 PM
Response to Original message
22. I'm more interested in why some people aren't banned than why
some people are...for instance one has over 400 posts and is named after a popular soul singer but has posted nothing but support for freepish ideas and criticisms of Dems
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Stephanie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-30-04 12:16 PM
Response to Reply #22
23. there's been a very slick infiltration
IMO
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Vinnie From Indy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-30-04 12:17 PM
Response to Original message
25. I seems Truth Really Ain't All
I guess you need to have restraint and civility in addition to truth to survive on these boards. I will miss TIA's posts. They were always worth a read. I hope TIA is allowed to return!
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Darkhawk32 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-30-04 12:18 PM
Response to Original message
28. TIA has a huge bullseye on him ....
How can someone NOT get pissed off once in a while? Unban the man.
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troubleinwinter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-30-04 12:19 PM
Response to Original message
29. I find the Admins to be extremely even-handed and hard-working.
I have learned a great deal about statistics from TIA's posts.

I do hope it gets worked out.
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New Earth Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-30-04 12:21 PM
Response to Original message
34. i'm going to keep my mouth shut.
:hi:
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Malikshah Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-30-04 12:22 PM
Response to Reply #34
35. That appears to be the way things are heading
lots of mouths kept shut.

great for discourse, rational or otherwise.

yet one more victory for Rovian forces.
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WilliamPitt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-30-04 12:23 PM
Response to Reply #35
37. Whose mouth, exactly?
I don't see anyone shushing you, or me.
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Quakerfriend Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-30-04 12:23 PM
Response to Original message
36. I agree with you Will
that far too many times people were picking on TIA, and yet they don't get tomb stoned. We really needed TIA! And to tell you the truth I saw this coming for TIA as much as 2 weeks ago.

For that matter, I think Jamboi should be allowed back as well!

Perhaps, the mods should give out penalties instead. Say, one month detention from posting, for example.
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Cadence Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-30-04 12:24 PM
Response to Original message
38. TIA if you're reading this
I hope you know that there are more than just a few of us that really appreciated your work and contribution. I hope that you at least attempt to talk to the moderators to try to come back. I don't blame you for losing your temper. I understand rules are rules but there were a lot of people that aren't fighting for anything or trying, that were trying to bait you.
We need people that are willing to fight for Democracy...we need you back.
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understandinglife Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-30-04 12:24 PM
Original message
Some supportive dialogue with the admins on TIA's behalf...
...may be helpful. I've made my plea. Maybe some of you will want to do so, as well, if you haven't already.

Peace.

"Its 7 Jan 2005: do you know who your president is?"
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seabeyond Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-30-04 12:24 PM
Response to Original message
39. when given enough info on admst decision making,
i have always been impressed. being a business owner and quick decision making, i have been impressed with skinner and what he has created here.

i also enjoyed tia and all he has said, i have been right in step with him, so have a fondness for his posts

and we create what we experience, each to their own. i can respect that. no victims in my book
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SueZhope Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-30-04 12:27 PM
Response to Original message
42. this makes good sense
I think that TIA will work it out with the mods.....

He really puts himself out there and has been doing wonderfully work
Du is great place but people sometimes get triggered and
react to posts that are often designed to get reactions....

I hope to see him back soon.
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Moderator DU Moderator Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-30-04 12:28 PM
Response to Original message
43. Locking
Ya'll know why.
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