THE ONLY PROBLEM IS THE VOTING MACHINES

[Stevepol]

At some point, we've got to realize that the only problem in the country right now is the VOTING MACHINES. Until we have a paper trail that can be and is by law audited, we have no democracy. We have to make this absolutely clear in every communication with everybody we know, in every letter to the editor, in every post, in every way we can think og. We don't have to be mean about it, in fact, we can be smiling and friendly, but we have to make it absolutely clear. We can put labels on our letters: Demand a Voter Verfied Paper Ballot! We can put it on our bumper stickers. We can call and talk to the Elections Supervisors in our counties, the secretaries of state in our states, Call, write, email, visit. In a million little ways this has to become an all-consuming focus. The MSM will not cover this and we have to realize it. Until this 2% vote leak is plugged, a Dem can never be elected Prez and Dem candidates for Senate and House will continue to be defeated. The result: all war all the time.

[GetTheRightVote]

1. There are way more problems with our election process but this is

a good start to it all, we need to go back to paper ballots, only way to be sure of a fair election process.

:kick:

[berniew1]

8. Paper trails aren't enough; you have to have auditable logs & equipment al

also. Its possible to manipulate any type of voting system, if all voter logs, compilation equipment software, etc. are not available to public and auditable to compare to paper trail. Paper trails can be manipulated also; but all this together makes it very difficult.

[derby378]

2. Damn straight

"Help America Vote Act," my ass!

[kuozzman]

3. But these guys say they have the solution!

Populex apparently has the solution for all of the problems previously experienced with voting machines. Oh, and the guys who started the company are oil execs and former CIA head and Carlyle Group head for a decade, Frank Carlucci!
http://ignorantusa.tripod.com/

[Stevepol]

14. There are several good machines out there, Avante among them.

Avi Rubin named another, I think he said TruVote or something like that. Avante has an attached paper printer that asks for the voter to verify the paper before it is deposited in a box (behind plexi-glass I think so it can't be tampered with by the voter, just verified or rejected). Avante also is able to prevent under- and over-votes by asking the right questions during the voting process. But as somebody else says in this thread, you have to REQUIRE AUDITING. The scanners can be audited but almost never are. Any machine HAS TO BE AUDITED BY LAW. You can have a smaller percentage audited, if the choice is done by having Dems and Repubs choose certain precincts and having others chosen at random. Then HAND COUNTING THOSE PRECINCTS COMPLETELY. If the precincts chosen are the truly critical ones, then it shd tell if there are anomalies in the system requiring the whole election to be hand-counted.

[Cocoa]

4. nope, lots of other problems

including some problems that led to Bush being president in the first place. Punch cards, especially, plus purge lists, intimidation and other forms of voter suppression.

[Merlot]

5. Just called Senator DiFi

She is sponsoring a constitutional amendment to remove the electorial college. I told them that attached to that amendment we need to specify that votes are counted by non-partisian entities. He told me that she had worked on a bill requireing a paper trial, but I told them that wasn't good enough, paper trails will not solve the issue. He said he would pass on my comments. I'm going to write a letter next.

If they make that big of a change without changing the actual voting process who cares? Although I'm sure that if the vote counting was federalized and attached to that amendment there is no way it would pass, it would bring attention to the issue. Maybe the public would stop and think for just a second about who is counting their vote.

Oh, I can dream, right?

[jasmeel]

6. Good bumper sticker

Vote Republican: All War All the Time

[truckin]

7. While not the only problem, it is the most important IMO and needs to be

given as much attention as possible. It is something that most people recognize as a problem when they have all the facts. When the masses realize that the machines come from private companies run by republicans that employ felons who would not be allowed to vote in certain states to program the machines, maybe this issue will get the attention it deserves. When you add in the fact that in many cases there are no paper trails and no one outside of the companies can audit the programs in these machines it is obvious that our election process is broken. And if anyone still believes that the voting machines are not a problem, throw in the Chuck Hagel story for good measure.

[starmaker]

9. who controls the vote count?

really difficult without voters controling the process
good read is www.chuckherrin.com

[Last Lemming]

10. Listening to NPR

and some idiot spin the election--voting machines aren't the problem, he says--registration is the problem--we must have a better way to register people--of course this actually makes it much easier to manipulate the results--

[Time for change]

11. Yes, but

Even with a paper trail, if you can't get a full hand recount of the vote, what good does it do. Isn't that what's happening in Ohio now? The good majority of Ohio has a paper trail, it's just not being accessed in the so-called "recount".

[Andy_Stephenson]

12. Not a paper trail

Paper Ballot. Read my sig line.



When no statutory definition for a term exists, the first fallback in all courts is to consult the definition in Blacks Law Dictionary. a compelling case can be made for the fact that ballot is defined in Blacks Law Dictionary...Paper is defined in Blacks Law Dictionary but "Trail" is completely absent. Collectively the definition for ballot and the definition for paper generate a clear and easily understood legal definition of the paper ballot needed to ensure the integrity of our vote. Paper trail produces no such record.

[GOPBasher]

13. Yes, Stevepol, that's the biggest problem. We need to fix that, or

nothing else matters.

And by the way, Welcome to DU! :hi: