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VTGold Donating Member (438 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-26-04 05:30 PM
Original message
The Sadness
I've been thinking about the feelings that have passed through me since November 2nd.

I've wondered at my intense sense of sadness - in addition to the anger and sheer shock and wonder - I have this intense sadness.

Today a visual entered my brain - of these men and maybe a few women - sitting in a room - sitting in comfy chairs - sitting there planning these crimes. Hashing out the details.

This crime and many others of course - crimes that took lives - crimes that broke hearts and souls and bodies - speaking the words out loud - forming the words - the sounds of them in the air.

I find it almost impossible to absorb.

It is so sad - so tragically sad.

We have so much work to do. I hope I can find a place to make a difference.
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ayeshahaqqiqa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-26-04 05:33 PM
Response to Original message
1. I have felt the sadness as well
and a cold numb feeling as I realized how much hate and intolerance there is in this country, disguised by a veneer of religiousity.
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senseandsensibility Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-26-04 05:43 PM
Response to Reply #1
3. .....and ignorance
Don't forget the ignorance, so carefully tended by the corporate media. It's the main reason we find it so difficult to fight these repuke bastids. Our only hope is to talk to people and spread the message that everyone should trust their OWN experiences and common sense, not the spin that comes pouring out of the idiot tube.
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ayeshahaqqiqa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-26-04 05:48 PM
Response to Reply #3
4. I always figure it is important
to be as nice a person as I can be. That way, when people find out my faith or my political beliefs, they can't say, "Muslims are bad" or "Liberals are bad". May seem a bit naive, but I think it does work for certain people. I've met enough right wingnuts to know it won't work with everyone.
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Vinca Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-26-04 05:40 PM
Response to Original message
2. VTGold - ditto
I do business in Brattleboro, Vermont, where, incidentally, there's a company called "Vermont Gold." Don't know if that's you. Anyhow, IMHO, the entire town has been depressed since the election. The only thing that picks me up is going to the natural foods store where you're bound to still see plenty of Kerry/Edwards bumper stickers. Personally, I've been on the computer/stewing/writing/emailing/faxing nonstop since November 2. My mood has gone from absolute despair to "we're going to get the bastards." Now I'm mostly mad as opposed to depressed.
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VTGold Donating Member (438 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-26-04 05:51 PM
Response to Reply #2
5. I hear you - my area (between Okemo and Killington) is a pinch...
Edited on Sun Dec-26-04 05:52 PM by VTGold
... more purply - but still quite blue. Not as blue (or green) as Brattleboro but few places are :)

I don't know of the organization you mentioned - I use VTGold because I live in Vermont and I have Golden Retrievers - not very creative but there was probably a dog sleeping on my feet when I joined up :)

Sounds like we have some fireworks to look forward to in January - I can't wait to come out of the Underground!!
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Vinca Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-26-04 06:04 PM
Response to Reply #5
10. FYI
Vermont Gold in Brattleboro is a specialty maple syrup company and you're right - this area is as blue as it gets.
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consciousobjector Donating Member (173 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-26-04 05:51 PM
Response to Original message
6. Sadness, frustration...but still, HOPE
Through all the sadness and emotional turmoil of the past few weeks my subconscious is still full of hope and the dream messages I've been getting are stronger than ever...I really don't believe * will be inaugurated again
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VTGold Donating Member (438 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-26-04 05:53 PM
Response to Reply #6
7. From your mouth to God's ear - DO YOU HEAR THAT GOD!!!??
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Quakerfriend Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-26-04 05:58 PM
Response to Original message
8. One thing is certain......
There is always hope as long as there exists a beautiful group of people, like those here at DU, to go to when our hearts are heavy.

I get great strength when I think about all those who have gone before us in great battles! I feel that there will be great changes coming, and that good will prevail. And, the person that John Kerry is also gives me great comfort.
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madison2000 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-26-04 06:00 PM
Response to Original message
9. When I think of the citizens of Iraq I have the same feeling of sadness
There must have been a lot of hope when the Americans first came and everything was focused on removing Saddam Hussein quickly. But think how long its been that they have been living under chaotic conditions. Think how many people have died who were not opposing our military in any way. If we don't know what the big plan is over there, how can they possibly know?

We've given jobs to Haliburton and other American contractors while Iraqis with education and training have no work. We've broken down their infrastructure without rebuilding it. We are naively preparing for an election in a country that never asked for democracy in the first place and doesn't understand it. How can anything good come of all this for the Iraqi people?
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KE_04 Donating Member (18 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-27-04 09:07 AM
Response to Reply #9
65. No bid contracts...
Just FYI, President Clinton gave the same company no-bid contracts when we went into Bosnia and Yugoslavia. Not that I agree with it, just the facts.
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Cherie59 Donating Member (92 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-26-04 06:13 PM
Response to Original message
11. Me too! I remember "hope was on the way"
Now we have a been cheated once again out of a president.
The world is in such chaos and Bush should be impeached
for putting us in this war we have no business starting.
I just don't get it, where is the outrage? People should
be in the streets screaming! Yet the MSM is silent and
most people are just paying attention as far as their
fences surrounding their yards. It saddens and sickens me.
Yet, I am so thankful for the DU and all who participate.
It is truly my sanity each and every day now that I no
longer watch MSM news.
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Carl Brennan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-26-04 06:18 PM
Response to Original message
12. Maybe this will help.
I have moments of sadness too. But you know this crap has been going on a long time. Stuffed ballot boxes, destroyed ballots, CIA tampering with elections for decades, etc. The upside is that we are starting to look at it more closely and fighting back with an enlightened perspective.

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NurseLefty Donating Member (489 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-26-04 06:25 PM
Response to Original message
13. I alternate between denial and sadness.
Edited on Sun Dec-26-04 06:28 PM by NurseLefty
I sometimes just have to give myself a break and take my mind off of it. The reality is unbearable and I get exhausted thinking about it. But, I can't help but wonder: if * had never been president, think of what could have been done w/ the hundreds of $billions$ he has squandered. Fixing health care, REAL drug benefits for the elderly, more money for education, and not harnassing future generations with massive debt.
Money aside, I wonder: without *, our troops wouldn't be dead/maimed/in harm's way, 100,000+ Iraqis would be still be alive, we would have healthy, productive alliances with nations of the world, and our environment would be free of his threats/actions.
Instead, the greedy, corrupt, and phony gloat and reign supreme, progress is squashed, and we watch as our country is beginning its decline.
I feel hopeless, powerless, and leaderless.
:hangover:

edited for typo x2
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VTGold Donating Member (438 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-26-04 06:34 PM
Response to Reply #13
15. You'll enjoy this Maureen Dowd NYT piece: A Not So Wonderful Life
Its a take on Its a Wonderful Life - what if Rummy had never been born. We can insert * in there as well...

http://www.nytimes.com/2004/12/19/opinion/19dowd.html

****************
A Not So Wonderful Life
By MAUREEN DOWD

Published: December 19, 2004


EXTERIOR BRIDGE OVER POTOMAC RIVER - NIGHT

CLOSE SHOT - Rummy is standing by the railing, staring morosely into the water. The snow is falling hard. Feeling a tap on his shoulder, he wheels around and wrestles an old man with wings into a headlock.

OLD MAN: Ouch! Tut, tut. When will you learn that force doesn't solve everything?

RUMMY: Who the dickens are you?

OLD MAN: Clarence, Angel First Class. I've been sent down to help you.

RUMMY, squinting: You're off your nut, you old fruitcake. You can't help me. I was a matinee idol in this town, a studmuffin. Now everyone's turned on me - Trent Lott, Chuck Hagel and that dadburn McCain.

CLARENCE: No more self-pity, son. I'm going to show you what the world would have been like if you'd never been born.

Clarence, who can fly now, takes Rummy's hand and they soar over the icy Potomac to the Pentagon. Beneath the glass on the desk of the defense secretary is a list of members of Congress and their phone numbers.

RUMMY: Who put that there?

CLARENCE: Sam Nunn. He's the defense secretary. Sam consults with Congress. Never acts arrogant or misleads them. He didn't banish the generals who challenged him - he promoted 'em. And, of course, he caught Osama back in '01. He threw 100,000 troops into Afghanistan on 9/11 and sealed the borders. Our Special Forces trapped the evildoer and his top lieutenants at Tora Bora. You weren't at that cabinet meeting the day after 9/11, so nobody suggested going after Saddam. No American troops died or were maimed in Iraq. No American soldiers tortured Iraqis in Abu Ghraib. No Iraqi explosives fell into the hands of terrorists. There's no office of disinformation to twist perception abroad. We're not on the cusp of an Iraq run by Muslim clerics tied to Iran. Here's Sam. He's with the chairman of the Joint Chiefs.

GENERAL SHINSEKI: We got some good news today on the National Guard, sir. Recruiting is up 40 percent. With the money we saved killing that useless missile defense system, we up-armored all our Humvees.

RUMMY, fists and jaw clenched: Grrrrrrr...I want to see Wolfie!

CLARENCE: Sam never hired any of those wacko neocons. Wolfowitz is a woolly headed professor at the Johns Hopkins School of Advanced International Studies, and a consultant to Ariel Sharon. Richard Perle was never in charge of the Defense Policy Board, so he was unable to enrich himself through government connections, or help Ahmad Chalabi con the administration. Perle stayed an honest man, running a chain of souffl shops. His souffls were so fluffy he became known as the Prince of Lightness. Doug Feith never worked here, either, so he never set up the Office of Special Plans to spin tall tales about W.M.D. and Qaeda ties to Saddam. And he never bungled the occupation because there was no occupation. Without you to swoon over in a book, neocon doyenne Midge Decter became a fallen woman, like Violet.

RUMMY, dyspeptic: Holy mackerel! Take me to Dick!

CLARENCE: Dick and Lynne run a bait, tackle and baton-twirling shop in Casper, Wyo. You didn't exist, so you never gave him those jobs in the Nixon and Ford administrations, and he never ran for Congress or worked for Bush 41 or anointed himself 43's vice president. W. chose Chuck Hagel as his running mate. So without you and Dick there to dominate him, he was guided by his dad and Brent Scowcroft, who kept Condi in line. Colin Powell was never cut off at the knees and the U.N. and allies were never bullied. There was never any crazy fever about Iraq or unilateralism or "Old Europe." Here's Colin now, heading for the Oval Office.

POWELL: Merry Christmas, Mr. President. With the help of our allies around the world, we have won the war on terror. And Saddam has been overthrown. Once Hans Blix exposed the fact that Saddam had no weapons, the tyrant was a goner. No Arab dictator can afford to be humilated by a Swedish disarmament lawyer.

RUMMY: Goodness gracious, I've heard enough now. I'm going home. Unless you're going to tell me my wife is an old maid, because I wasn't around to marry her.

CLARENCE: Oh, no. Joyce lives across the street from your old house on Kalorama Road. She's happily married to the French ambassador.

"Auld Lang Syne" swells as we FADE OUT.


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RevCheesehead Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-26-04 07:03 PM
Response to Reply #15
19. Thanks for posting that piece by Dowd!
I've been really, really sad today, and saw this thread.

You brought a smile to my face, and I thank you for that.
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VTGold Donating Member (438 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-26-04 07:17 PM
Response to Reply #19
21. Thank you for letting me know - that makes me smile :)
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Farah Donating Member (185 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-26-04 06:30 PM
Response to Original message
14. What's great is that we can ALL make a difference!
Even though the deadline for the college votes is fast approaching, we have a lot of time to expose all of this.

I have been absolutely overwhelmed at how active a role people here have been taking, and I sometimes wonder what would have happened had we not done a thing?

So everyone needs to keep all their efforts into pressurizing the media, and also their senators to help our cause.

It is amazing what can happen when we unite our common passions!
EVERYONE HERE IS AMAZING!!!!!!!
:yourock: :yourock: :yourock: :yourock: :yourock: :yourock: :yourock:


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fooj Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-26-04 06:44 PM
Response to Original message
16. take some comfort
in knowing there are many people actively working day and night to thwart the evil ambitions of these bandits! I have felt a great deal of sadness,too...along with many other emotions! I know it's hard to wrap your mind around something so sick and twisted!!!! They have also tried (may I say unsuccessfully) to break our spirit! Our efforts will not be in vain! GOOD WILL PREVAIL! I sincerely believe in our cause...it is a moral and just cause. You can be sure that you have ALREADY made a difference by not being INDIFFERENT! Together, we'll move forward!!!! This great country of ours needs us more than ever before! PEACE! :)
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Blue_In_AK Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-26-04 06:57 PM
Response to Original message
17. I feel kind of
in suspended animation, like the election was some kind of horrible nightmare and that soon we'll all wake up and find out that it didn't really happen that way at all. It's just so-o-o-o depressing, and I find myself coming here more and more just to be uplifted.

But I also like to think that if our efforts are successful and the election is overturned, or if Bush & Co. are forced out of office for all their crimes, what a wonderful example of democracy it would be for the rest of the world to witness and what a ray of light it would shine on this dark planet with all its problems.

So I kind of alternate between these moods of intense despair and blinding hope ... probably pretty much like everybody else here. It's so good not to feel alone in this craziness.
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VTGold Donating Member (438 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-26-04 07:21 PM
Response to Reply #17
22. I know just what you mean - I stayed up all night Election night - I was
in such shock - I refused to believe it.

No one I know, blue as they are, would believe that the election was stolen.

I felt like I was in some psychedelic bubble.

Then I found DU - thank the Heavens!!
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Blue_In_AK Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-26-04 07:33 PM
Response to Reply #22
24. Psychedelic bubble -- heehee
Edited on Sun Dec-26-04 07:39 PM by Blue_In_AK
I haven't been in an ACTUAL psychedelic bubble for many years now (too many?), but it might make things a little easier than this damn reality. :hippie:
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corbett Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-26-04 06:59 PM
Response to Original message
18. http://capwiz.com/pdamerica/utr/1/JYLWECPWIH/EYNIECPXBP
Make a difference by signing this petition

http://capwiz.com/pdamerica/utr/1/JYLWECPWIH/EYNIECPXBP

and then reading this AMAZING thread.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...
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VTGold Donating Member (438 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-26-04 07:21 PM
Response to Reply #18
23. Yes, I saw that letter - and it did indeed give me so much hope!
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politicasista Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-26-04 07:10 PM
Response to Original message
20. Still blue
Edited on Sun Dec-26-04 07:19 PM by politicasista
Ever since November 2, I have found myself at time wondering of what could have been, seeing Kerry/Edwards inagurated on a bright, sunny January morning sworn-in, and enjoying the parade and inaguaral balls, walking through the Rose Garden or sitting in the Oval Office. I was hoping to hear on Election Night before Kerry made his acceptance speech "Beautiful Day" or "No Surrender" but instead it was a concession speech with a funeral atmosphere.

I continue to pray every night that things will sort themselves out and something good will come out of this or the truth will be revealed, but with Smirky in power, I don't know if the country can survive the next four years. Our soldiers are dying over his lies, children are hungry, parents are out of work, families are living in poverty without health insurance. Sometimes I feel sad for those who needed for help/hope to be on the way like the 9/11 widows, anti-Bush celebs, peeps, and us.

Anyway, I was hoping it wouldn't have to come to this, but I guess things happen for a reason. I don't want another four years of Smirky, but I guess this is God's way of allowing Smirky to be worshiped by the MSM and clean up his own mess(despite his incompetence and mistakes)and he just didn't want to put Kerry through all that. I don't know. My parents said hey we survived eight years of Reagan, we'll survive the next four years of *.

I live in a red state (unfortunately) so I have stayed away from the Smirky gloaters and I haven't watched much news since Nov. 2. It's just become such a joke it's not even news anymore. :nopity:
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DemGirl7 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-26-04 08:04 PM
Response to Original message
25. I've been really sad also...
so much so that I've become a little indifferent to the whole political procress since Nov.2nd...and It was the first time I voted for president
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VTGold Donating Member (438 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-26-04 08:13 PM
Response to Reply #25
26. Stay with it! Even tiny bits of light helps - darkness HATES the light.
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fooj Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-26-04 09:53 PM
Response to Reply #26
34. check out my post at around 5:30- 12/26
The message is truly inspirational!
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Oversea Visitor Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-26-04 08:23 PM
Response to Original message
27. You not alone
in feeling this way, Many around the World feel it too. Sadly many of them dont know how many American feel this way. Thanks to the mass media.
My battle is more to tell people that not all Americans are morons etc. Its hard, look at all the official news coming out of US.
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Blue_In_AK Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-26-04 09:15 PM
Response to Reply #27
32. Oversea Visitor
Did you know that people are looking for you?
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Oversea Visitor Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-26-04 10:38 PM
Response to Reply #32
35. Yeah already reply
:hug:
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Karenina Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-26-04 09:31 PM
Response to Reply #27
33. Peeps are VERY CONCERNED
and want to know you and yours are OK given the chaos in your region.

Please check in here:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...
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VTGold Donating Member (438 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-26-04 11:11 PM
Response to Reply #27
39. That is what I worry about - that the world doesn't know - very painful.
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Amaryllis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-27-04 10:49 AM
Response to Reply #39
66. Do you know about sorryeverybody.com & apologiesaccepted.com?
Edited on Mon Dec-27-04 10:53 AM by Amaryllis
Not only is the word getting out to the rest of the world, but it is amazing how many of them know the election was stolen. There are signs from people all over the world saying things like, "We have PAPER ballots in Malaysia!" and "You really need to check out those voting machines!"

These sites will warm your heart and make you cry and let you know that many in the world understand and are with us. Someone said these sites have done more for international relations than anything else.
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zimba Donating Member (148 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-26-04 08:32 PM
Response to Original message
28. Yeah, its been a tough two months.
I know alot of folk who have never been prone to depression or "the blues", but find themselves today having trouble wanting to get out of bed. I think thats why so many jump for joy at the slightest hint of good news on this forum. For me I bounce between sadness and rage. Not much else these days. I sure pray the future is better for America and the rest of the world.

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fooj Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-26-04 08:35 PM
Response to Original message
29. this might help...
http://www.therandirhodesshow.com/randi_audio/IAMNOTLEA...

I listen to this several times a week...it helps ground me and reminds me how important our fight is! It gives me great hope!
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VTGold Donating Member (438 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-26-04 11:17 PM
Response to Reply #29
40. Yes, I love this - and it so pertinent because I did want to leave...
...I lived in England and Germany and I thought about going back to Europe very seriously.

The thing that made me sweep that thought from my mind was hearing the testimony of the voters and volunteers in Ohio.

I thought, these are amazing people - my people - how can I leave when such people are fighting?

So I'm staying. :)
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Gregorian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-26-04 08:36 PM
Response to Original message
30. Rome has always been burning.
Another line from my 80 year old dad. He said that when I felt just like you do. Distraught beyond belief. Men have sat in rooms since the beginning of time, plotting. Shit, they killed Jesus!
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VTGold Donating Member (438 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-26-04 11:20 PM
Response to Reply #30
41. Yeah - and like Obi-Wan Kenobi - they made him stronger - this too shall..
..make us stronger.

Down with the Death Star!
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Ladyhawk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-26-04 08:53 PM
Response to Original message
31. It's been hard on everyone. I have severe, treatment-resistant Depression
This election and all the questions surrounding our nation have left me bereft. I feel like someone took a two-by-four to my head. I'm left sitting here going, "What the hell? What the hell?"

First of all, was the election stolen?

If it was, we're screwed unless we can prove it. If not, we're screwed because that many people actually voted for Emperor Fuckface. Oh, and by the way, with Fuckface, his swearing in is a coronation, not an inauguration.

Then, when Kerry conceded, I began to wonder if the whole two-party system was simply a sham to keep us believing we have a choice when we don't. I still feel that way to a great degree. What is real? What is a hoax? I've questioned this on every level.

Regardless, it looks like we're in for some really tough times. I'm sorry for everyone here who is hurting. Hell, I'm sorry for myself! (C'mon, we all are. This affects every one of us personally on some level.)

Even if the whole democratic thing is a construct and John Kerry cares not one whit about us, we have to start somewhere. Election fraud is the place to start.

In the spirit of the Chinese curse, may the next few weeks be as interesting as hell. :toast:
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VTGold Donating Member (438 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-26-04 11:28 PM
Response to Reply #31
44. It's been devastating I know - but all we can do is learn...
We're puttin' out an Amber Alert for this baby - this young nation - we're going to get it back.

And we're never going to take our eyes off of it again!

And I'll tell you the best part is that our good fellow countrymen on the other side of the isle are going to be instrumental. That is going to make it all the sweeter.
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rigel99 Donating Member (621 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-26-04 10:50 PM
Response to Original message
36. DON'T DESPAIR, help is coming
I want to give you some hope. There are committed people who have worked this issue for over 2 years. Georgia is a place that has such committed citizens. I"m honored to have met many of them tonite. I just got back from a meeting.

I CANNOT SHARE DETAILS, but something big, VERY BIG is in the works. stay tuned. There will be some very credible data soon. I will have the car mileage to prove it.
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politicasista Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-26-04 11:03 PM
Response to Reply #36
38. That's good even if we can't kick Smirky out of office.
Edited on Sun Dec-26-04 11:26 PM by politicasista
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New Earth Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-26-04 11:25 PM
Response to Reply #38
42. is that crying emoticon
permanently embedded in every post you make or what
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politicasista Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-26-04 11:27 PM
Response to Reply #42
43. No
:)
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New Earth Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-26-04 11:34 PM
Response to Reply #43
46. good
use more of those

(these :) )
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VTGold Donating Member (438 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-26-04 11:31 PM
Response to Reply #36
45. I LOVE hearing stuff like that - I really do feel a buzz and pray...
...it isn't just the hope I feel.

I pray it is the sound of millions (ok maybe only thousands) of feet marching toward the light!
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eowyn_of_rohan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-27-04 06:44 AM
Response to Reply #36
61. Encouraging news...
I was shocked to learn, after this "election", that 100% of Georgia voted with Diebold electronic voting machines. Then I started digging, and read about the way your Sec. of State "scalia-ed" the equipment into your state in 2001/2, and the bizarre results in your 2002 elections. You all were (knowingly) directly affected by this 2 years before most of the rest of us. I am so glad to hear that there are Georgians who are committed to exposing these criminals and their methods, and that you are on to something BIG. Save us!!
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tamtam Donating Member (450 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-26-04 10:56 PM
Response to Original message
37. As a first time voter
As a first time voter I didn't expect losing this election would be so hard, I cried for two days. The sadness came because I knew deep down this election was stolen. The sadness was overwhelming when I seen the video of the disenfranchised in Ohio. The anger came when I seen how so many people voted against gay marriage. The ignorance and hate in this country is down right sickening. I've lived a shelter life. I've never had gay friends and to my knowledge I still don't. I imagine gay people feel the same way my ancestors felt during the civil rights movement and this is beyond sad to me.

I hope that one day we can overcome the cheating right. I also hope that one day we can overcome the ignorance and fear that has swept across this country. Yes, I am still sad but I have a small glimmer of hope left.
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VTGold Donating Member (438 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-26-04 11:40 PM
Response to Reply #37
47. This force we all feel has a purpose - a very powerful purpose -
like that dreadful Quake this weekend - we are a force of Nature and we'll eventually know what our purpose is.

I find it fascinating how we are this relatively small group who absolutely KNEW what had occurred election night - in such an organic way. I couldn't explain it to anyone - I just knew. I had no facts or figures - nothing to offer in the way of proof or even suggestion. I just knew.

It reminds me of the film, Close Encounters of the Third Kind. A small group of people just spontaneously know they are to go to this one location at a given time and have no idea why. This feels like that to me.

It must have a meaning in the Universe. We are blessed to be awake - even if it doesn't feel that way most of the time :)

Don't despair (look out dreadful old cliche coming..) This too shall pass...
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progressiveandproud Donating Member (129 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-27-04 12:31 AM
Response to Reply #47
53. Gee, you have a way with words...
Thank you for them. I also could not accept the election "results". It was horrible. In the early evening the TV network I was watching (CNN?) said that Virginia was too close to call, and I was shaking in anticipation. When they called VA for Bush by 57%-43%, I was shocked. After all that drama, it wasn't even close. Or so they said. I got really angry at the MSM. Maybe you did too. It was like they were toying with my soul, throwing me a bone that was only a mirage. From that point on, I felt like I was trying to stop the tide from going in, especially when they called Florida for Bush.

What I mean to say is that, like you, I knew in my gut that something was horribly wrong in this country. Either my country had elected a dictator, or the whole thing was rigged.

For what it's worth, I still feel the same way. Only, the tide seems to be coming out again, validating my suspicions about fraud. Gee, I'm waxing lyrical like a crazy man. Maybe it's 'cause I've dwelled on this election for the last two months, for so long that I've started seeing imagery about it. ;).

Jonathan
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Der Blaue Engel Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-27-04 01:32 AM
Response to Reply #47
59. VTGold, I know what you mean
My candidates have lost elections before, and it sucked.

But this was something different, even from the 2000 fiasco. There was an actual moment where I felt (or maybe saw in the faces of the news broadcasters) that SOMETHING had happened.

I didn't even listen to Kerry's concession speech the next morning, because I knew that things had stopped making sense. After spending a few days in the depths of my depression, I started looking online for proof, because I knew it had to be here. I knew there was fraud, and that I couldn't be the only one who knew.

My partner and friends have accepted what's happened; oh, they suspect there was some foul play here and there, but nothing that can be proven, and they're just "moving on."

There was this creepy, stupid fundie propaganda movie that I was forced to watch in Sunday school as a kid in the 70s: Like A Thief in the Night. A woman wakes to find her husband and friends have all been raptured, and she has been left behind. All around her, the evil ones are trying to make her believe that up is down, and black is white.

I feel like that woman. Only I haven't been left behind, I'm just...AWAKE.
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progressiveandproud Donating Member (129 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-27-04 12:13 AM
Response to Reply #37
51. Thank you.
As a gay youth and first-time voter, I feel exactly as you suspect I might. Your empathy is touching. Like you, I remember weeping on Nov. 3 when John Kerry came onto the stage and conceded. I kept thinking of the opening scenes of "Fahrenheit 9/11" and wishing fervently that this was all only a dream.

I was in Ohio volunteering for MoveOn from Oct. 31 through Nov. 3, and you can imagine my grief and rage as not only Bush seemed to have won, but when the TV networks announced that the anti-gay "Issue 1" amendment passed 61% to 39% (as far as I remember, those were the numbers). I was crushed: I was in no way expecting this worst-case scenario, losing both votes. As you might imagine, I felt personally threatened by the passage of Issue 1. And I felt personally threatened by the tens of millions of Americans who had voted for Bush. I remember, it was a slap in the face when Bush was asked during the third presidential debate if he believed gay people chose to be that way and he had the audacity to say he didn't know. (I think that was when I shouted, "Fuck you!" at the TV screen.) I knew what that f*cker meant. It wasn't like Bush said he didn't know if sexual orientation in general was a matter of choice -- a sentiment that I can kind of understand. No, what he was really saying was, "Straight people are naturally that way... but gay people... hmm, let me think about that... you know that's one of them controversies. I don't think anyone knows for sure the answer to that question."

Oh yeah, it was around that time in the third debate that I came to the realization that this disgusting man was actually MY President, regardless of the fact that he was elected fraudulently in 2000. Somehow it hadn't hit me that hard before.

I think I'll stop now. I don't want to get carried away; in any case, I hope to store my energy for working on the future, for getting Bush out of office. Seeing him impeached and thrown out of office would be worth a thousand Georgia peaches!

Thanks for listening,

Jonathan
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VTGold Donating Member (438 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-27-04 12:29 AM
Response to Reply #51
52. I hope this helps in some small way ....
Edited on Mon Dec-27-04 12:33 AM by VTGold
...Firstly I want to say that I really do hear and feel your pain. You were most certainly targeted and attacked by these hateful people.

But don't let them lie to you and convince you that the numbers of people they "fooled" into voting the way they did on those "Issue" votes was "real".

Read this article by Tom Oliphant of the Boston Globe - I love him and hearing him talk about this issue on the Al Franken show after the election raised my spirits a little concerning our fellow Americans. He explains how they didn't really understand what they were voting for or against. I hope it brings you at least a pinch of peace as well:
***************

The Gay Marriage Deception - By Thomas Oliphant,
Boston Globe Columnist | November 7, 2004

WASHINGTON
THE NEWS media have grossly misreported the contents of state referendum questions targeting Americans who are apparently seen as more dangerous to national security than John Kerry -- gay people.

Using unthinking shorthand that carries out the hidden agendas of the people who want gays banished to the fringes of society, the press has over and over again referred to these measures as banning gay marriage. In fact that is only accurate regarding three of the 11 initiatives passed last week.

In state after state -- most prominently in Ohio (which Bush barely won) and in Michigan (which he nearly did) -- these referendums went far beyond the question of who gets to be formally married. They also banned legal and other conventions incidental to marriage, which are central to the evolving institutions of civil unions and domestic partnerships.

For political reasons, it was central to the hidden agendas of the groups pushing these restrictions (the target is homosexuality, not relationships between homosexuals) that they not become the focus of the debate.

Therefore marriage was used as the cover for the far more consequential effort to strip contractual rights from gay couples who have formed hundreds of thousands of families in recent years across the United States.

That is why proponents described them repeatedly as efforts to ban gay or same-sex marriage, a formulation the press has mindlessly repeated. It reminds me of the success of groups who spent nearly a decade on behalf of banning a rare pregnancy procedure, the name for which was invented solely for political and shock-value purposes -- partial-birth abortion. Again, the press's lazy penchant for a catch phrase, unexamined for accuracy, led reporters and editors to mindlessly repeat the phrase.

The point about that phony campaign -- already rejected once by federal judges of all stripes, including the Supreme Court, and back in the courts now -- was to use the shock value of the procedure to create a ban written to cover all three trimesters of pregnancy without an exception to preserve a woman's health, in other words to challenge Roe v. Wade and abortion rights themselves.

Just for the record, the three states whose initiatives last week refer only to the granting of marriage licenses are Montana, Oregon (the one place where the vote was very close), and Mississippi. The states that used marriage as a cover to mount an assault on contractual relationships of all kinds were Arkansas, Georgia, Kentucky, Michigan, North Dakota, Ohio, Oklahoma, and Utah.

In pivotal Ohio, for example, the voters may not have realized it but they voted to strip people of the right to contractually arrange distribution of assets, child custody, pensions, and other employment benefits. They most definitely were not "protecting" marriage; they were attacking gay people. That is why the political and business establishment there, including Republicans, opposed the measure.

The evidence is that the voters who approved it also opposed its actual contents. In the official exit poll Tuesday night, 27 percent of the voters said they support full marriage rights, 35 percent supported civil unions, and only 27 percent oppose any legal rights for same-sex couples. In other words, to underline the importance of artifice and deception in our sound-bite culture, the voters approved a measure opposed substantively by 62 percent of the very same voters.

President Bush embodies this incoherence while he manipulates the sentiments cynically. Just before the election he tried to say he supports the rights of states to have civil unions, though he would have opposed them as governor of Texas. He also supports a federal constitutional amendment that would both limit "marriage" to man-woman couples and permit states to ban civil unions.

The incoherence was tactical. Bush knew fair-minded supporters of civil unions were going to vote for him (according to the exit polls, up to half did); but he also knew he needed to keep his base of bigots happy, too -- hence his campaign's alliance with them at the grass roots in places like Ohio.

The irony is that a federal amendment is probably necessary for the pro-discrimination forces to succeed.

Many states have laws to keep groups from putting two issues in the same referendum, in order to avoid exactly the kind of deception that has occurred. In fact, injunctive relief on that ground has already been granted in states that passed such initiatives earlier. In addition, they directly challenge both the contract and the equal protection clauses of the US Constitution.

The federal amendment does not have the votes, even in the new Congress, and my hunch is that Bush doesn't have the stomach to truly fight for discrimination. He was, however, willing to benefit from the deception this year, and a lazy news media played right into the hands of those who would officially sanction discrimination.

Thomas Oliphant's e-mail address is oliphant@globe.com .

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progressiveandproud Donating Member (129 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-27-04 12:49 AM
Response to Reply #52
54. That is a great article!
Thomas Oliphant gets it. He understands the bogus Republican "framing" (to use a word I've been hearing more about lately) that deceives the American people. Just like the "Healthy Forests Initiative" -- gag! -- and "tax relief".

What still disturbs me, though, is how gullible most Americans are when it comes to this propaganda. And how the MSM in print and on TV perpetuates it. With regard to the MSM, I guess they're proven themselves to have hardly any conscience: making money is their bottom line, for the most part, getting the truth out be damned. What still shocks me is how few people in positions of power and influence, like in the MSM, care more about protecting the country than about protecting themselves. Despite the fascist aspect of the Bush administration, I refuse to believe that investigative reporting is tantamount to suicide. Journalists have a responsibility, and in general they have failed it. How they can respect themselves and sleep at night is beyond me.

Yeah, great article. Thanks.

Jonathan

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eowyn_of_rohan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-27-04 07:55 AM
Response to Reply #37
64. Interesting to consider similarities between ourselves and our times
Edited on Mon Dec-27-04 08:09 AM by eowyn_of_rohan
...and the people and times before us. What we are experiencing reminds me again and again of the Civil War, when not just the nation but families were divided by their socio-political beliefs--and today, also, our religious beliefs. This has actually happened in my own extended family, embarrassing (because the offensive, wackeligious branch is so few in number and non-representative of the rest of us), but also frustrating and sad, and really scary and tragic...

And in regard to the Civil Rights movement, this probably sounds real stupid, but something has been happening inside me since Nov. 2, which is I am realizing such a profound, heart and soul-level oneness with all oppressed and disenfranchised Americans. I feel more united than divided, and I can understand the terrible sense of powerlessness, fear, and sadness over the injustice against us, and the realization that those we believed would protect us (government/judicial system) actually do not care at all about us.



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KaliTracy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-26-04 11:43 PM
Response to Original message
48. from out of the abyss
I saw a glimmer... and pulled myself out again.

The morning after Nov. 2 I felt like I had been gut punched. I kept telling my DH "something is NOT right." He was already on the "oh well, maybe next time" wagon. I fell into a pretty dark funk. All of the people at work are Republican. I was getting physically ill as they talked about exit polls and how * pulled ahead. I've never had that kind of reaction to an election before. What was wrong with me?

That night, when I heard about the long lines here in Ohio, I was furious. I had no line. I live in a very red county. That I thought it was only BOE ineptitude is kind of laughable now.

I sent letters questioning the machine disparity -- didn't make me feel much better, but I felt like I was doing something.

Then I found DU (through BradBlog, which was my first step out of the dark).... wow... through my non-sleeping, trying to understand 2000 .vs 2004 Ohio numbers (and muddling my way through my assumptions) -- here, at DU were true number-crunchers, who knew what they were doing and could prove, in much more coherent terms what I only suspected. Validation. I actually felt relief that I was *not* crazy for thinking the way I had been.

I went to the Columbus Rally on December 5th. I've written many more letters. I have started alerting family and friends of issues (sending articles and links like Will Pitts piece about Triad). I tell people "It's not over yet." And I firmly believe that

I still am not sleeping as much as I should be.... but I don't feel quite so lost anymore, in fact, I feel a purpose as I never had before. I'm going to Columbus on the 3rd. I'm writing more letters to congress and MSM. Because of all of you wonderful people at DU I feel I have found solidarity. We need to reclaim our democracy. Say that to yourself slowly on exhale as you breathe deep three-to-five times, whenever you think nothing is moving forward.

Thanks all of you at DU for helping me out of the darkest hole I've ever seen...
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VTGold Donating Member (438 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-27-04 12:02 AM
Response to Reply #48
50. I don't wish this sadness and frustration on anyone of course - BUT...
...it is so gratifying to know that there are so many others who know EXACTLY what I'm going through and have been through.

I'm surrounded by people who have always felt "like me" - but not one of them sees what I see.

At first I kept saying "I know I sound crazy but....".

I don't say that anymore - because of all of you I can impart the information I believe I should and then just tell myself that they'll jump on further down the road - at some point they'll each (at their own pace) finally get it and jump on.

And I'll try my darnedest not to say "told ya...."
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KaliTracy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-27-04 12:55 AM
Response to Reply #50
55. *chuckle*
me too. All I say now is "something" is happening out there, and if they ask questions I elaborate, and if not, I leave it at that.
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progressiveandproud Donating Member (129 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-27-04 12:59 AM
Response to Reply #50
57. Geez, VTGold...
...how many times have I said the same disclaimer, "I know I sound crazy and all, but..."!

Talking with "non-believers" (about election fraud) is so difficult for me. I've read so much on the internet, learned so much that's led me to believe that Bush stole the election. All the info that led me to this conclusion is filed away in my mind somewhere... but when it comes to imparting what I've learned to other people (usually my friends), I don't know where to start. Maybe this is because I have attention deficit disorder (just got diagnosed this fall), but I'm glad to know that I'm not the only one having difficulty with the persuading-others thing.

Next time I go about persuading I'll try to have most of the info printed out and in my hands. Ya live and ya learn.

Jonathan
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progressiveandproud Donating Member (129 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-27-04 01:06 AM
Response to Reply #50
58. Sometimes I even want to tell people about...
...the renowned Indian astrologers who predicted a Kerry victory, and about the so-called clairevoyant person -- the name escapes me, but someone posted an article in this forum about her or him -- who expects the election fraud issue to basically explode in around six months, in the middle of 2005. Seriously, I do put a bit of stock in what these people say; unless, that is, there are other seeing people who predicted a Bush victory, and I just haven't read about them yet!

Anyway, I believe it will all come out in due time, even if it takes decades, like some of the Nixon tapes. Let's hope that this time is soon and work to make it happen.
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Eye_on_prize Donating Member (205 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-27-04 04:57 AM
Response to Reply #50
60. thanks for creating this space for our sadness. just saying out loud that
democracy has been dealt a potentially fatal wound, and may be DOE on Jan. 6th. I prefer voicing real feelings, even when difficult, rather than hiding our sadness with silence so we won't be called 'weak' or 'insecure' or 'needing our meds' or by rabid NeoCon psy-ops thought-cops. Maybe the most difficult truths set us most free.

I am imagining 100s of thousands of peeps dressed in black with orange armbands and/or headbands to symbolize working for the best (orange), while being prepared for the worst (black), in front of the Capital Building on Jan. 6th. gives me a warm feeling. I live in Oregon and am trying to raise money to be there with a videographer friend of mine.

I often skate a thin line between sadness, on one hand, and depression aka paralysis on other too, so there is that risk i suppose...but not inevitable or necessary at all. thank Goddess..

Regardless of whether MSM gives a damn, let's see if Kerry really turns that boar around tomorrow. can u say tipping point? hmmmm. maybe i'll go now to check in on WmPitt strings to see if there are any 'tidbits' emerging re tomorrow. tomorrow. will it always be tomorrow, until there isn't a tomorrow anymore?

There's a time for sadness, and a time to fight like hell. This seems like a time to do both.
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marions ghost Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-27-04 07:47 AM
Response to Reply #50
63. All of us are not crazy
...but sudden transformations can feel that way. Eyes open with the clarity of a full moon rising over an icy field. Dense snow has fallen all day, obscuring and distorting everything that was familiar. But now a fierce high wind is sweeping away the clouds and the stars are lighting up, one by one...it's beautiful, it's scary, this clarity.

Der Bleue Engel #59: ...we are awake

VTGold #47: "we are blessed to be awake"

Ladyhawk #31: "Even if the whole democratic thing is a construct and John Kerry cares not one whit about us, we have to start somewhere. Election fraud is the place to start."

It is we who must have patience for others around us who know, but choose to deny or obstruct. We are the truly sane...somehow tough enough to bear and speak the ugly truth. Just keep saying it.

Thanks, VTGold.
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ailsagirl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-27-04 12:01 AM
Response to Original message
49. This has been the second saddest holiday season in my life
The first one was when I lost a beloved family member.

But I take tremendous comfort in the millions of people, not just in this country, but around the world, who share our horror and our determination to triumph over this dark, sick, illness that has taken hold. These men with Death and Hatred and Destruction written all over them... the majority of the world does NOT want those things to prevail. And they won't-- as long as we keep fighting. I'll never give up.
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proudbluestater Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-27-04 12:59 AM
Response to Original message
56. I've enjoyed reading all the inspirational responses.
November 2nd was such a dark day for me, I have truly blotted it from my memory already. (Early Alzheimers, perhaps? ;-)) I remember taking the day off and little else. I can't even tell you how I watched the returns. Probably C-Span? It's been AWFUL!

I felt bad, not just for this particular election, but because we went in with the knowledge (or the suspicion) that 2000 had been stolen from us. But maybe it was a fluke, right? Maybe it just looked like a steal? When this one was stolen, it was like a slap in the face. I didn't get on the band wagon right away about the vote fraud, either. I withheld my judgement until more facts came out. But once they did, the sadness only deepened. I feel like we didn't just lose the election, we kissed democracy good bye.

My sadness is also about the rest of the country who believe the MSM and what it feeds them. I don't consider myself extraordinarily brilliant, but back when CNN and the other networks were willingly hopping on board with Bush in the lead up to war with Iraq that all came together SO suddenly with no questioning of * motives, I turned away from the media, thought they were complicit in his actions, no longer bothering to question authority. I thought to myself, "what the hell?" Where is this coming from all of the sudden? When did they become this huge threat so quickly? So I grieve for others who cannot see the truth.

I also grieve for the hatefulness of the Republicans. Those who would shove their "values" down our throats exhibit very few values themselves. Love they neighbor? Not if he/she's a Democrat.

I feel like we're at the end of the road, praying the country has a future.
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Quakerfriend Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-27-04 07:38 AM
Response to Original message
62. Thx for this terrific thread
It has been very healing just reading it!
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MissBrooks Donating Member (614 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-27-04 11:18 AM
Response to Original message
67. WilliamPitt!! Where are you!?
I can't wait any longer!
What's the word?

Should we watch CNN or MSNBC? Where will we hear it first!?

Pins and Needles!

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zimba Donating Member (148 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-27-04 12:21 PM
Response to Original message
68. This thread reminds me of
something that was truly touching for me, and helped me through a recent slump after the election. Cant remember the exact words etc, but, its from the documentary "Control Room" about Aljazeera's coverage leading up to, and during the Iraq invasion. At one point, as two men are discussing the fact that the worlds only super power had a leader who was now hell bent and on a rampage, one of the heads of the network, with what looks like tears in his eyes, says to a reporter, 'But who will be able to stop him? Nobody'.

With an incredible look of hopefullness, the reporter replies, 'The American people will stop him. I fully believe in the American constitiution and the American people. They will stop him.'

And I smiled for the first time that day.



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