Okay. I am disgusted. Where is the bombshell that was supposed to fall
today? Where was all the MSM we were supposed to get as a result of Kerry joining in? No bombshell, no coverage. As they say,"if it isn't on television,it didn't happen!" CSAN 2 even cancelled showing today's hearings! I am really disappointed. I think I really allowed myself to fall for hype. I am glad Arnebeck filed but I am not as optimistic as I was. I am more optimistic than a few days ago, but this is really a rollercoater, and I am tired of being disappointed! JMHO.
9. To the people, who are the only ones that can make a difference,
"it didn't happen if it is not on television". State controlled or not, that is the way it is! And those are not my parmeters, that is reality. If no one knows Kerry has reacted, does it count? I think not. It is relevent to me, but not the masses.
18. I do have a low opinion of the American people. At least half of them
Edited on Mon Dec-13-04 05:11 PM by saracat
voted for Bush! It is only a question of whether Kerry won the electoral college with Ohio or a majority of American's actually voted for Kerry , but there is no question that this country is divided and about half voted for Bush. Many more didn't vote at all. Yeah, I have a low opinion of the American people. And they will do nothing until dragged up off their ass by MSM. And many of the 57 million don't believe their was election fraud and many who think there was ,want to "move on"
26. I don't understand why you would have such a high opinion of the people .
Edited on Mon Dec-13-04 05:45 PM by saracat
I also have no idea what Kerry thinks and wouldn't presume to speak for him. I do wonder how you expect people to act that don't know anything. Most people are unaware of Ohio and the consequences.How do they rectify a situation that they don't know exists?
I can't start new threads, but this was on Georgia Public Broadcasting -- they're re-voting Macintosh County, GA, for the sherrif's race because the vote was close and there were so many "irregularities" in the voter roles.
67. I think any report of election anomalies is important
there could be evidence in the machines. You do use Diebold in GA right? That is how in 2002 they elected the first Republican governor in 130 years. Actually I think the elections in GA was the thing that started investigations into the machines. I think it was a file Bev Harris stumbled across named rob_georgia that let us all in on the secret.
28. 202 737 3220 Call now. C-Span. With this number you
get the operator who is very nice and will kindly tell you that C-Span wasn't able to get a camera to the hearings in Ohio. Express your disappointment and ask to be transfered to a voice mail where you can leave a message. Leave your message. Let them know that we actually expect them to cover election fraud issues.
I'm wondering...if the Ohio Supreme Court is majority Republicans, and MSM won't cover it, how is this ever going to get anywhere? Doesn't John Kerry understand that he has got to come out in a big way about all of this?? It's the only way MSM is going to pick it up and the ONLY way we are going to get the truth out to the voters! Doesn't John Kerry understand the Democratic party will be DEAD if this just 'goes away'?? I just don't get it!!!!!
There is NOT going to be any alternate set of Ohio electors or some great conspiracy of fraud discovered or evidence that voting machines were rigged.
Why are you so surprised when people like Bev Harris and Cliff Arnebeck have been able to produce so little evidence proving what they allege?
Don't be disgusted, the idea of Kerry being suddenly the winner via some unprecedented and amazing fraud discovered is incredible. If I thought there was the remotest possibility that this was possible or based in fact the effort would be worthy to support. Of course it is vital to make sure every vote is counted, and that means rectifying mistakes and problems that made violating a devastating burden for some. Voting and registering to vote should be simple yet verifiable to eliminate the chance legitimate votes are lost and to ban the possibility of illegal voting.
My advice is to be active and engaged with the effort to make sure votes in future elections are registered in a better manner. No election will ever be perfect, but that should not stop efforts to improve elections.
As for waiting for 'bombshells' or the big conspiracy that will bring Kerry to office, the only thing that would put Kerry in the White House would be him winning the 2008 election if he were to run again.
24. What exactly makes you think there will be any election reform if this
election isn't overturned? Who ,pray tell, will order such reform? It is fine the way it is for the powers that be. Why would they fix it? These are the people who just refused to acknowledge the their vetting system was not perfect with Kerick!
HAVA improved voting? Electronic voting machines improved voting? Where do you get your info that voting has been improved? All the so called "reforms " were geared to make elections easier to steal , like the paperless machines! HAVA makes it really difficult for the poor to vote. There was no advantage to this administration doing real vote reform. This will be no advantge to this Admin doing it now. Kerry would have instituted it. Bush won't. Period. The repugs control everything and they will not implement it.
with the extrafun 'proviso' being that secretaries of state who are simultaneously chairs of political campaigns get to decide how and which provisional ballots get counted, if a person manages to even get one after being denied a proper ballot in the first place.
What solution would you suggest for a voter who is registered to vote but something got screwed up and their names are not on the books? How would you verify that the voter is in fact registered to vote and is the person they claim to be?
i would suggest having easy access to registration records at a local post office where a person could verify their registration status prior to the election, and where problems could be addressed and handled ahead of time. i think it has been amply demonstrated that 'boards of elections' are woefully understaffed and undertrained to handle problems on election day, and completely crapped the bed as far as handling problems ahead of time. This is not to mention the current incentive on the part of the evil side of the aisle to frustrate the situation rather than assist, in areas they prefer not to vote. i would further suggest having continued access to those records at the same location after the election, where a voter could find out if their vote was counted, and could easily challenge that status in order to have that vote counted. I would also legislate a national standard for the counting of those provisional ballots, so that a politically motivated secretary of state did not have the authority to adapt the rules to favor his own party. finally, I would make it necessary to have a photo voter ID, again obtainable at a post office with presentation of the same credentials currently necessary to vote, in order to avoid double voting or fraudulent voting. enough solutions?
The only thing that I don't think would fly is a national standard for provisional ballots as it falls under state law. I think you would need a constitutional ammendment regarding voting and elections to create a federal standard for provisional ballots.
43. They demand differnt kinds of identification that such people aren't
Edited on Mon Dec-13-04 05:43 PM by saracat
likely to possess. It is riddled with exclusionary practices.Most Civil Rights organizations were against HAVA. The Repugs loved it! Right away one would know it is suspect. Google it and see what you think.
PA driver's license or ID card issued by PennDOT ID issued by any other Commonwealth agency ID issued by the U.S. Government U.S. Passport U.S. Armed Forces ID Student ID Employee ID
Approved forms of non-photo identification:
(ID must include the name and address of the elector)
Voter's identification card issued by the voter registration commission Non-photo ID issued by the Commonwealth Non-photo ID issued by the U.S. Government Firearm permit Current utility bill Current bank statement Current paycheck Government check
Help America Vote (for *) Act Saracat is totally right that there is no carrot or stick involved with election reform unless a republican loses. Look at Holt's Verified Voting addendum to HAVA, and how far that got. Look at HAVA's expansion of centralized computerization of voter registration to better 'weed out the felons'. Check out the 'back of the bus' provisional ballots. There were no improvements from 2000. We just watched the whole thing again in slow motion, with a different state as the backdrop.
really just starting. the beginning. very beginning. long way to go who knows where it will go and what will develop. i am not counting on it getting kerry in. i am counting on eventually it taking bush and repugs down
38. Maybe what would be more productive is for everyone to
join a massive effort for media coverage. We should have celebrities demand coverage. Where is Micheal Moore? He should be screaming in the street! Micheal J. Fox? The Kennedy's. Anyone who can get ahold of a microphone do it. That is what I have been doing. But we need big names to get attention because apparently MSM doesn't think the issue itself merits coverage!
That you have allowed your emotions to be controlled by the media that has not been very receptive of our position and/or friendly to our candidate, is your problem. Yes, your post is negative rather than encouraging. If you can't take the heat, stay out of the kitchen.
57. Ther is no media for my emotions to be controlled by. You miss the point!
My emotions have been raised by posts on DU! I am not talking about "hope" I am talking about "bombshells? and expected MSM coverage. And if you think I am negative read the latest Will Pitt. You will see I don't agree with him at all!
58. Well then, you have no one to blame but yourself relative to
your anger. All along the issue has been about restoring integrity to our elections. If, by the grace of god, Kerry is allowed to take his position as he was elected to hold, then wonderful. That is not the issue, the party is not the issue, safeguarding democracy, protecting the elections from hacking and theft, those are the issues.
And it is the lack of media that controls your emotions, therefore you have allowed the media to control your emotions.
Susan Sarandon said something weeks ago. Maybe the idea of celebrities speaking out is not so bad....if Kerry still won't. Don't have a clue about Moore. I was thinking last night maybe many were holding back not to raise the fight to soon but I don't know today. I was disappointed today.
All the time wasted, all the energy wasted, all the money wasted. Could have been used doing something constructive. If I didn't know better I'd say the vote fraud movement was orchastrated by Karl Rove himself.
66. I know how you feel, however, for me this was always a long term fight
an eight year effort at least. I know the election was totally stolen. No one, not the RNC or the DNC can take that truth away from me. No one can take those facts away, both statistical and evidential. I for one will continue to expand my email list and inform all who have the slightest opening for truth in their souls. No MSM can take that away. Truth is power - lets all use it.
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