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BUSTED? Pynchon thinks there's something rotten in Volusia

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sabra Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-08-04 05:08 PM
Original message
BUSTED? Pynchon thinks there's something rotten in Volusia
<<SNIP>>
http://www.orlandoweekly.com/news/Story.asp?ID=4732

THE BATTLE RAGES ON
message board

BUSTED? Pynchon thinks there's something rotten in Volusia



By Jeffrey C. Billman
Published 12/9/04

"One minute I feel like Erin Brockovich, the next I feel like the Keystone Kops."

Susan Pynchon is standing in the parking lot of the Lake Mary Kinko's, peering over the mess of files and cardboard boxes in the back of her tan Toyota SUV, which features an anti-Bush sticker on the window. For those still clinging to the belief that the election was rigged, Pynchon a former volunteer for the county's Democratic Party and founder of the newly formed Florida Fair Elections Coalition is your point woman. On Nov. 23, she sued to overturn election results in Volusia County. A few days later she was in a DeLand courtroom fighting the county's motion to dismiss her suit.

According to Pynchon's suit, 59 of Volusia's precincts nearly one-third of them are missing the printouts that the optical-scan voting machines produce to ensure accuracy. All those precincts, Pynchon says, are missing either the results tape, the "zero tape" at the beginning of Election Day, poll workers print a tape that should register all candidates at zero votes to make sure no one got a head start or the required poll workers' signatures on one of the above forms. Volusia County election officials deny that the records are missing.
...

Ultimately, Lowe herself made figuring it out easier. She rejected touch-screen voting machines in favor of the optical-scan ballots, which produce a paper trail. That means the hand recount Harris seeks is possible.

<</SNIP>>
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DoYouEverWonder Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-08-04 05:15 PM
Response to Original message
1. If the tapes are missing
and Volusia County can't produce them, then this is huge. The election in Volusia County would be invalid.

The tapes are one of the few ways that the SOE checks the count for accuracy.

When the poll closes on election day the machines print out a tape with the totals. One copy is posted on the precinct door and the other copy is taken to the SOE office.

The next day the tapes are picked up from the precincts and the totals are compared to the totals from the tapes at the SOE office. If any tapes are missing, then they could not have legally certified the election. If they did certify the election knowing that tapes were missing or that they did not match, then the SOE for Volusia could be facing criminal charges.

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sabra Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-08-04 05:23 PM
Response to Reply #1
3. I was wondering about that too...
Haven't seen any updates about Volusia on BBV.
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noclonyofthechimp Donating Member (656 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-08-04 05:28 PM
Response to Reply #1
6. This is huge! What do we do now? Has she contacted anyone?
Should we get her in touch with Congressman Wexler in Florida who clearly said he will be looking into everything here in FL?:bounce:
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DoYouEverWonder Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-08-04 07:33 PM
Response to Reply #6
19. Yes, Wexler needs to know about this suit
especially if she has solid evidence that the tapes are missing and Volusia continues to stonewall. The tapes are part of the public record and there is no excuse. Not only is it a violation of Election law, it is also a violation of FL Sunshine Laws.

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Andy_Stephenson Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-08-04 09:41 PM
Response to Reply #19
26. Her evidence is solid
I gurantee it.
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DoYouEverWonder Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-08-04 09:59 PM
Response to Reply #26
29. That's good news then
I wish you guys luck but you do realize this is truly the Banana Republic down here? Even some of the DEMS are corrupt Repug plants, like Teresa LePore.


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merwin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-08-04 10:51 PM
Response to Reply #1
33. Accuracy? The SOS cares about that now? :-) n/t
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EMunster Donating Member (477 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-08-04 05:21 PM
Response to Original message
2. kick
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For PaisAn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-08-04 05:23 PM
Response to Original message
4. kick
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glitch Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-08-04 05:27 PM
Response to Original message
5. Wow. nt
:dem:
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BlueDog2u Donating Member (692 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-08-04 05:30 PM
Response to Reply #5
7. Kick!
:dem:

This is hot.
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IAMREALITY Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-08-04 05:33 PM
Response to Original message
8. My Favorite Part
Overall Awesome Article.

From a DU perspective though, Here's my favorite part:

"Harris says all this was caught on video by filmmakers from Votergate.tv who were following her, but that tape is currently in Los Angeles being duplicated and edited, so Orlando Weekly could not review it"

ahem, **cough cough**
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sabra Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-08-04 05:41 PM
Response to Reply #8
9. I noticed that one too...
We shall see ;-)
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IAMREALITY Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-08-04 05:44 PM
Response to Reply #9
10. You See Sabra,
Edited on Wed Dec-08-04 05:45 PM by IAMREALITY
What disturbs me about that quote is that the only reason it is in LA is for a professional edit, for a movie being made that's only intent is to be sold for profit.

This is the crime of the century we're investigating here, and I am frustrated beyond words that such compelling evidence is being delayed from public view merely for a self serving greedy intent of a buck.

No other possible reason for it to be in LA, if that's actually even true at all...
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sabra Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-08-04 05:50 PM
Response to Reply #10
12. Considering that we are still more than a month away from
Edited on Wed Dec-08-04 05:51 PM by sabra
inauguration, there is still time for this to make a BIG impact. I too am confused about the LA thing...
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symbolman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-08-04 06:47 PM
Response to Reply #10
17. I talked at length last night to the producer
of Votergate.tv - and he told me that they had firewired those portions of film directly into their camera..

THey'd also been given to NBC affiliates in the South who ran it locally - as for why KO wasn't given it I have no idea - Bev KNEW he wanted it because she as posting here and WE were posting about it, so the "my three cell phones voicemail were filled up" don't fly..

All she had to do was tell KO to contanct the southern NBC affiliates to get the footage and then go on his show and PROVE something..

Instead, we know what happened, more abuse..

The Producer told me a LOT of stuff, a really nice guy, who's trying to get this subject out there for all to see -- just like our fim..

I got the inside story on everything, but I'm not going to trash this guy by telling the truth about someone else he is friends with, his choice - but I can tell you this..

Bev Harris is NOT associated with them (as he told me), it's his film, not hers.. tho I still think she was making "movie moments" and a lot of what she says actually refutes itself, sometimes in the same sentence, or later as she constantly updates her version of the truth..

We even asked for a trailer of Votergate.tv to add at the end of our film to help promote it, but our film does remain "Bev Free" - not that we don't address Diebold and Electronic voting, etc..

Please go to Buzzflash and buy our film, we spent personal funds making it and hard work over a year of travelling, etc..

We'd appreciate it :)

http://www.buzzflash.com/premiums/04/11/pre04073.html
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ParanoidPat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-08-04 06:48 PM
Response to Reply #10
18. "We're investigating"???
I wasn't aware you were working with Bev and BBV.org! :evilgrin:

From a BBV.org perspective here's MY favorite part of your post,

"No other possible reason for it to be in LA, if that's actually even true at all..."

Of course it's absolutely impossible that someone would want to protect that evidence and have multiple prints made by a lab that you positively trust. :crazy:

People always hand the only copy of important evidence to anyone who wants it based on their promise to take good care of the original and return it to you in good condition. :eyes:

Besides, what does the film have to do with Bev and BlackBoxVoting.org?

If you have a complaint, why don't you try being at least a little bit honest and take your concerns to the guys who OWN the rights to it?

http://www.votergate.tv
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IAMREALITY Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-08-04 07:48 PM
Response to Reply #18
20. HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
Oh Yeah, in the 21st century the only place you can find a video place for editing is in LA! LOL LOL LOL LOL

Yeah, There aren't a million around every corner. Hell, we don't even have the technology yet to make copies on our own without a professional lab that only LA can offer LOL LOL

I just can't wait for the days when you can transfer the video to a computer, burn it in a dvd recorder, or dub from a dual deck vcr that you can buy for under a hundred bucks. Oh when oh when will this cruel cruel world supply us such technology.

:eyes: :eyes: :eyes: :eyes: :eyes: :eyes: :eyes: :eyes: :eyes:
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Must_B_Free Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-08-04 09:45 PM
Response to Reply #20
27. Isn't the original film?
I.E. has to be developed and processed before video can even be made?
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pgh_dem Donating Member (584 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-09-04 11:32 AM
Response to Reply #27
36. unless they're crazy rich...
Edited on Thu Dec-09-04 11:33 AM by pgh_dem
the votergate.tv people were most likely already shooting to digital, which could be captured to most current PCs/Macs with firewire, from there it is easy to make as many lossless copies as you want. unfortunately, you could also make as many cuts and pastes as to completely remove all context from your footage (unless you had the time code overlaid on your video), and run it out at the same quality as though it was shot continuously...(the magic of digital).
the only reason to edit it professionally would be for sale or distribution.
if i was a news producer, i would want raw footage with a clip list (such as 'at 14:10:23 to 14:16:18: see Bev Harris discover signed poll tapes in the garbage', 'at 15:21:10 to 15:24:27: see non-responsive Director of Elections' or 'cops show up', etc)
that way i could view the whole context of footage to be sure i was not being led astray by creative editing.
edit: sorry, point of 'unless they're crazy rich' title was that actual movie film is insanely expensive...ask any aspiring film student.
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ohio_liberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-08-04 05:45 PM
Response to Reply #8
11. Ay miseria!
Ya'll called it, didn't you?
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Quakerfriend Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-08-04 06:00 PM
Response to Reply #11
13. perhaps Bev and MM are collaborating
and making a movie together- to be presented in court, as evidence. Just wishful thinking??B-)
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IAMREALITY Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-08-04 06:01 PM
Response to Reply #13
14. Yeah, Cause That's What Sways Courts The Most
Hollywood produced and edited footage of crime.

The judge will think he's watching an episode of Law & Order and get anxious waiting for a commercial break to take a whiz.
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Turn CO Blue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-08-04 09:07 PM
Response to Reply #8
23. Help me, a relative newcomer, IAMREALITY
Am I missing something? Bev said there was a warehouse, and a tug-of-war over a trashbag of suspicious Volusia tapes...

Wouldn't showing those tapes break this thing wide open?

Honestly, I avoided most of the controversial Bev threads like the plague - but didn't Olbermann offer to look at or even show the video? Then I think somebody said Bev doesn't even own the video, instead a film company does. So how can she not own or have access to video where she is the main person filmed on the video? Explain that. Why would any third-party film company miss the opportunity of a lifetime to show this video on Countdown?

How, oh how, can this all seem to boil down to profit from some future film? (when it will all be too late!)

Most news programs pay for good footage, right? So hows about this film company pursuing that angle? - before the inauguration too!
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IAMREALITY Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-08-04 09:27 PM
Response to Reply #23
24. Sigh Turn
I feel ya.

Can't really answer ya though, cause who the hell really knows why. Personally the fact that virtually no one has seen the footage yet makes me quite skeptical that its motives are for anything other than profit at the end of the day, but who knows.

I will say though that I would think it a crime for ANY news organization to have to pay her or those others a dime to show the footage, and to be honest, part of me actually hopes that some legal investigation comes to fruition in FLA that via subpeona rips the footage out of their greedy hands.

Just my opinion though :)

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ParanoidPat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-09-04 01:41 PM
Response to Reply #23
38. No, showing the tape on the local NBC affiliate.......
.......did nothing to "break this thing wide open". The film in and of itself proves nothing. It's the poll tapes themselves that offer the evidence of attempted fraud. The video evidence is meaningless unless it is combined with enough other evidence to prevail in a court case. The rest of the evidence to make the complete fraud allegations stick is still being fought for.

I don't know what you expect to happen if the video is shown. Do you really expect the cavalry to come running to save the day? The FBI, CIA, FDLE, or John Ashcroft's Justice Department perhaps? Don't hold your breath while waiting. Just look around at all of the other evidence that has been shown in public that points to fraud, but doesn't quite make the full case for it. How many other investigations have local or Federal officials started based on that incomplete evidence? Zero, zilch, zip, nada, none. :(

Why do you think this one piece of evidence will somehow get a different response?

Are you serious with this next question? :shrug:

"So how can she not own or have access to video where she is the main person filmed on the video? Explain that.

That question is so silly on it's face that it's hardly deserving of an answer, but I'll try anyway. :)

If YOU shoot it YOU own it. The people from votergate.tv own the film and all rights to it. Bev Harris acting in her role as the Executive Director of a registered 'non-profit' corporation constitutes a 'public figure', and as such, can't stop anyone from filming or taping her official actions done in public. If, as alleged by some here, she's only in it for money or her own self promotion, She blew her big chance. She could have negotiated a contract with the producers for a cut of the profits or creative control in exchange for guaranteed access to everything happening behind the scenes. She obviously did not do that because she's there to audit the election. Votergate.tv is there to make a documentary. They are two different entities there with two different goals. One has NO CONTROL over the actions of the other.

If the law allowed a public figure to to dictate how every image of themselves is used, how long do you think the Fahrenheit 911 movie would have been? Think about it. If the pResident himself can't control how footage of himself hanging with his Saudi buddies, that he never authorized, gets used against him in a movie, what makes you believe Bev Harris can exercise such power over others work?

That explain it for ya? :shrug:

Why would any third-party film company miss the opportunity of a lifetime to show this video on Countdown?

"Opportunity of a lifetime" you say? Get real! Do you have a clue as to how relatively small K.O.'s audience really is? Do you know who they are?

http://www.oreilly-sucks.com/politics/cablenewsratings.htm

Cable News Ratings For Tuesday 9-7-04 -

FNC: Total day: 1,141,000 -- Primetime: 2,735,000 / Hume: 1,677,000 / Shep: 1,783,000 / O'Reilly: 3,325,000 / H&C: 2,880,000 / Greta: 1,998,000

CNN: Total day: 558,00 -- Primetime: 998,000 / Cooper: 514,000 / Zahn: 765,000 / King: 1,288,000 / Brown: 941,000

MSNBC: Total day: 228,000 -- Primetime: 382,000 / Matthews: 502,000 / Olbermann: 466,000 / Norville: 310,000 / Scarborough: 370,000

His audience is less than half a million people. And they're people who are already on board and aware of the issue. He could show the video but to what practical advantage?

No one is going to come running to save the day because of it and it may even damage it's potential use as actual evidence in court. If the defendants in a future fraud case successfully argue that it be thrown out because airing it was "prejudicial and inflammatory" to their case, you have not only derived no extra help fighting your case but have actually weakened it. Sounds like a pretty stupid move to me.

To put it in perspective, Bev got a 17,000 word article titled "Hack the Vote" in Vanity Fair Magazine in April of this year. Their domestic circulation is over 2 1/2 times Olbermans audience. In May, Bev made Time Magazine with an article called "The Vexations of Voting Machines". (May 3rd issue) Time's circulation is over 4.1 million copies on average, almost 9 times Keith's audience.

Congratulations, you have successfully been duped into believing that the video and Olberman are what's important rather than the very real job of getting the Florida elections officials to obey the law and provide the requested audit materials that can be used to build an actionable case for fraud. In demanding that things be done your way, you actually harm the very efforts you profess to care so much about.

Methinks you doth protest too much. :evilgrin:
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Turn CO Blue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-09-04 07:16 PM
Response to Reply #38
40. You are not IAMREALITY
1. My question was for IAMREALITY - not you. I clearly asked the question of him because I respect his posts.

2. Showing the video now (not next year) is a no-brainer because it clearly shows that an election worker was attempting to destroy evidence of vote tampering. The poll tapes are shown ON the video. Who knows what Bev has done with those poll tapes, but I'm sure that would have been Olbermann's next question (as it was yours and mine).

3. Once Countdown showed the video, I am convinced that the story would have been picked up by other networks and the affiliates. Why would this newstory get a different response? Because the video shows a near-violent tug-of-war between an election worker and a grandma-type woman in front of a trash dumpster - it has pure entertainment value, and that's what news agencies want. Hilarious.

4. I don't agree with you that Bev is a public figure, since I doubt that even 80% of DU would recognize her in a photo line-up. Therefore votergate tv would need a full release from her for copyright purposes. Just for fun, I just asked 4 people at work, and they've never even heard of Bev Harris or Blackboxvoting. I guess Bev's following is even smaller than Olbermann's! ;o)

5. Your vitriolic post truly deserved no response as the post itself was intolerant, disrespectful, and condescending. I happen to believe that Dems can all agree to disagree on some issues - it appears you do not embrace that thought.

Smiles!
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Karenca Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-08-04 06:09 PM
Response to Original message
15. Who should this be sent to? eom
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meganmonkey Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-08-04 06:17 PM
Response to Original message
16. Great link...Kick!
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jwmealy Donating Member (35 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-08-04 08:05 PM
Response to Reply #16
21. here's a trivial question. . .
what does "Kick" mean?
and while I'm at it, what does "n/t" mean?

obvious newbie
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meganmonkey Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-08-04 08:46 PM
Response to Reply #21
22. n/t means no text
as in there is something in the subject line but not in the body of the message.

Kick means you are 'kicking' the thread to the top - whenever someone responds on a thread it goes to the top of the forum list. So if I don't have a particular comment, but I want to support the thread by keeping it on the first page of the forum, i'll give it a 'kick!'

Also, eom means end of message - kinda like n/t.
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peacetalksforall Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-08-04 09:37 PM
Response to Original message
25. If there is silence because there is an evidence gathering in the works
....the last person you are going to give anything to is Keith Olberman. Call him a friend for now....but his paycheck comes from GE/NBC and neither corporation is a friend of Dems or Independents. Why does Olberman always have a sidekick guest who is overtly right wing who sits there and ridicules and pokes jokes at Dems - such as Craig Crawford or Howie Fineman.

Please, people. NOT NBC. Turning a film or any other information over to Olberman/NBC is like turning it over to Rove. You may detect interst and even perceive that Olberman is sincere - so what - he doesn't own NBC or his show - there is a hugh heirarchy over his head that tells him what to do and say. If you haven't ever worked for a corporation - please try to 'imagine' with logic how it must be. When someone goes against wrong that they perceive = they are whistleblowers - Keith is not a whistleblower. Wake up folks.

What is wrong with sending a film to LA? Take it out of Florida. Give it people who can turn it out along with some lawyers checking it out. Are you going to have Disney in Kissimmee prepare a film for you? I doubt it.

I can only trust and surmise because I don't think everyone has turned - I'll eat my words if we are all being betrayed - but I'll have company.

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Must_B_Free Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-08-04 09:48 PM
Response to Reply #25
28. Disney = ABC
GE=NBC. GE IS the war machine.

Do you think GE is going to let someone they pay do damage to their interests?
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peacetalksforall Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-08-04 10:09 PM
Response to Reply #28
30. Not sure if I follow...
For me =

ABC is an RPN (Republican Propaganda Network) - they support the right.

The NBCs are GE - the NBCs and GE support the right.

Keith Olberman does what NBC tells him to do or say. He has no political independence.

Why wouldn't NBC give Rove all the information that they can get coming in through Olberman - if for no other reason then to have a heads up on strategy and comeback from all evidence, theories, links, developments, being sent Olbermans way - and infor about who is sending the?

imo

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KatieB Donating Member (431 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-08-04 10:44 PM
Response to Reply #30
32. GE is one of largest military defense subcontractors
So NBC is definitely their "pro-war" arm.
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Blue in the face Donating Member (210 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-08-04 11:46 PM
Response to Reply #30
34. If you break it down, they are all owned by Bushies
But not everyone that works there is a Bush supporter. Why would Keith be able to go on the air and talk about election fraud if they were muzzling him?

This story has got to get out in the media for these people to have any credibility with me. In fact I wrote them last week saying the same thing. I haven't gotten a response back:

"Subj: votergate film
Date: 12/3/2004 10:28:12 AM Eastern Standard Time
From: XXXXXX
To: [email protected]



Wouldn't it help with publicity and with the cause of uncovering election fraud if some of this info was presented to the mainstream media? I have been giving to damn near every cause that I've been asked to. In return all I've seen is secrecy and infighting.

If you have information that could expose the fraud that happened in this election, please do the honorary thing and bring it out in the open. What is the use of having a limited release to the people that already believe that this election was stolen? Why not blow the whole issue wide open in the press?

I can not give any more money to causes that seem to be more about self-promotion and less about getting the truth out to as many people as possible. Like many people, I want to believe in what you are doing, but I am not willing to send in anymore money to people who promise they have important information, but haven't shown it to anyone.

Please consider giving at least parts of the movie to someone that can help publicize the fraud effort rather than keeping the info only to yourselves. Time is running out in the effort to uncover exactly what happened on Nov 2 and your information can help bring this issue to the forefront.

Thank you,

Amy Collins"
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peacetalksforall Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-09-04 10:48 AM
Response to Reply #34
35. Do you think GE/NBC is morphing into respectability as it relates
Edited on Thu Dec-09-04 10:49 AM by higher class
to their association with the right wing cabal, do you?

Is that what you use to substantiate Olbermans interest in the voting fraud issue?

Though they might realize that they are going to have to cover the fraud on more than Olbermans show...they profit more in $ from commercials if his ratings rise and they profit more in agreements with the right wing than they do supporting Democrats or Independents. They profit more in what is fed to Olberman. They profit from even getting one person to believe they are not right wing.

They're in a brotherhood with other corporations, military, banking, and the politicos of the right wing that bring it together.

CNN FOX NBCs are war, propaganda, and overtake networks.

You can't think that Olberman runs his own show, do you?

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Blue in the face Donating Member (210 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-09-04 12:04 PM
Response to Reply #35
37. I don't see anyone morphing into respectability
And I don't think that Keith has complete autonomy either. But if you saw the show where he discussed Dick Ebersol, he pretty much explained why he gets a longer leash. He was handpicked by Ebersol, a longtime and powerful network executive, to run the show.

I don't think he gets free rein to talk about whatever he wants, but I think that not having a high-profile show combined with his connections has afforded Keith the ability to speak more freely than most.

I've grown to be very distrustful of what the MSM is peddling as news. But I do believe that there are journalists out there that would publicize the videos if they were shown. I think that if the activists who took the video really wanted to expose fraud, they'd show them to the public instead of using them as fundraisers.
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Raksha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-09-04 08:00 PM
Response to Reply #30
41. Re: "the NBCs and GE support the right."
"Keith Olberman does what NBC tells him to do or say. He has no political independence."

True, but maybe somebody at NBC has brains enough to realize that this story is going to break--BIG!--no matter how they spin it or how they try to keep a lid on it. Is it possible that NBC could be trying to salvage whatever credibility they have left? Maybe they are positioning themselves so that when it does hit the fan, they can pretend they were on the side of the angels all along?

--Linda


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snot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-08-04 10:36 PM
Response to Original message
31. Kick
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bmoney07 Donating Member (304 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-09-04 01:46 PM
Response to Original message
39. If Volusia is invalid - does that do something to the certification?
n/t
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Botany Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-09-04 09:12 PM
Response to Original message
42. Yes, I see it now
Keith Obermann, was on the grassy knoll trying to get Jack's ruby back from the
CIA / Saudi / Jeb Bush mafi. He would have done it too, if Ms. Le Pore, did not
stoop from the skies riding a butterfly ballot. You will not see this on the main stream media outlets because Karl Rove, will send out
John Kerry, and other members of the skull and bones who do
not want you to know the real truth.

Stick with me kids I have all the answers.

Sincerely,
Donald Rumsfeld

:tinfoilhat:


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