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FLORIDA - THEY VOTED FOR KERRY BUT THE MACHINE KEPT COMING UP BUSH

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TruthIsAll Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-06-04 02:12 AM
Original message
FLORIDA - THEY VOTED FOR KERRY BUT THE MACHINE KEPT COMING UP BUSH
Edited on Mon Dec-06-04 02:42 AM by TruthIsAll
https://voteprotect.org/index.php?display=EIRMapNation

Cty Time Incident
Broward 2004-11-02 15:53:55 PST Couple voted for Kerry -- when confirmed vote, came out Bush. Called in election poll supervisor, who got same result. Continued to use machine.

Broward 2004-11-02 16:41:26 PST Andrea called to pass on anecdotal information that this happened; she has no first-hand information...voter machines would select wrong candidate when voter selected J. Kerry - G. Bush would be selected.

Broward 2004-11-10 10:11:03 PST When voter pushed button for Kerry, Bush came up on the screen.

Broward 2004-11-11 06:39:50 PST In precinct 249 we are getting reports that voters are pushing Kerry button, but Bush keep's coming up.

Broward 2004-11-13 10:37:11 PST Voter attempted to vote for Kerry and ballot showed vote for Bush instead; she left poll; she tried to clear it and it wouldn't clear; so she cast vote with Bush instead showing.

Broward 2004-11-02 16:19:08 PST Woman went to vote and used electronic voting machine. The two presidential candidates' names came up on the screen, Bush was first and Kerry second. She said she carefully clicked on Kerry but the check mark appeared next to Bush's name. She called someone over to help her and that woman told her to check on the mistaken check mark and it would remove the check mark. Then she could try again and check on Kerry's name. She did and it worked the second time. She was concerned that it took her two times to get her vote right.

Broward 2004-11-02 16:19:57 PST Voters selected Kerry and machine recorded Bush

Broward 2004-11-02 16:51:09 PST Says brother told him he voted for Kerry on electronic machine and machine recorded vote for Bush.

Broward 2004-11-07 09:28:00 PST caller, a volunteer poll watcher, reported that three people complained that their vote for Kerry, had shown as a vote for Bush, after they reviewed their ballots.

Broward 2004-11-02 11:09:15 PST Caller voted for a presidential candidate, but when recap showed up it showed the incorrect presidential vote (she voted for Kerry and it showed up as Bush). She got a volunteer to help her, but wanted to file a comlaint.

Dade 2004-11-30 07:40:49 PST Person is reporting that someone he knows voted for Kerry using touch schrren machine but the summary of the vote showed that he voted for Bush.

Duval 2004-08-31 05:58:55 PST Voter voted for Kerry; when she reviewed the ballot it showed that she voted for Bush. Poll worker said that has been happening to many others.

Hillsborough 2004-11-02 12:07:08 PST - Tried 9-10 times to cast your presidential vote. Kept up checking wrong and delete (Bush). Happened with several voters - poll workers said he was hittin bush with other fingers - poll worker checked cables and said "hit very hard" finally registered co

Hillsborough 2004-11-13 11:26:59 PST Voter selected Kerry and the voting machine showed that they had selected Bush - it took her many tried to correct.

Hillsborough 2004-10-27 15:49:44 PST - machines switching are switching vote kerry to bush -- this ahappens prior to confirmation screen. {cr}{newline}{cr}{newline}- other voters complaining about the same thing

Leon 2004-11-12 08:09:36 PST Aduio only provides opportunity to vote for Bush - no other persons offered.

Leon 2004-11-13 11:00:07 PST Machine problem -- only let you vote for Bush

Miami-Dade 2004-11-16 12:21:08 PST Voted for Kerry but machine showed Bush.

Miami-Dade 2004-11-17 10:20:05 PST Two voters, voting early, used electronic voting machine. They chose John Kerry for president but when they reviewed their choices before submitting their ballots, they found that George Bush was selected instead and they couldn't change the choice.

Miami-Dade 2004-11-17 10:26:00 PST Two unrelated people (taxi driver & store clerk told our volunteer they had voted on touch screens this week and screen showed they had voted for Bush when they know they voted for Kerry -- they got someone to change it before their vote was filed.

Miami-Dade 2004-11-02 17:07:10 PST At review screen, selection changed from Kerry to Bush "before my eyes" as voter pushed red button just before. Voter filed complaint with Kerry lawyer in polling place and told poll worker of problem, who said, "nothing could be done."

Miami-Dade 2004-11-02 10:29:03 PST 3 or more women told person they voted "down the street" (precinct 39V) from the post office at 4429 Hollywood Blvd. They voted for Kerry but the name Bush came up on the sceen at the end, when they voted, when vote was processed

miami-dade 2004-11-02 15:36:38 PST Upon reviewing her ballot before casting her vote, the voter noticed that "Bush/Cheney" appeared even though she had chosen "Kerry/Edwards".

Miami-Dade 2004-11-14 13:19:20 PST Went to vote for Kerry and Bush popped up immediately. I called for help. Woman/precinct worker told him to touch screen for Bush and it popped up again for Kerry. Successfully voted for Kerry on second time trying.

Orange 2004-11-04 13:30:55 PST Selected John Kerry/ green check came up in George Bush's name. Called over poll worker and they got creen to read John Kerry. She stated "it made me wonder if the machines are rigged."

Orange 2004-11-17 06:47:02 PST While voting for Presidential candidate Kerry - had problems with accessing his name. Bush's name kept popping and taking "priority". On the review however it showed Kerry so voter completed vote.

Palm Beach 2004-11-05 13:26:56 PST Voter touched "Kerry" and Bush's name registered. I called poll worker and she told me how to erase
Bush's name. We know of three today - maybe more!

Palm Beach 2004-11-04 12:51:51 PST Went to vote for Kerry and Bush popped up. Immediately called for help. Woman/precinct worker told him to touch screen on Bush and it popped up again for Kerry. Sucessfully voted for Kerry on second time.

Palm Beach 2004-11-11 08:39:49 PST Some people vote Bush instead of Kerry - concept of callabration - okay understand - works on second time. Democratic poll watcher inside aware of the prolbem.

Palm Beach 2004-11-12 07:00:58 PST voter hit kerry button and check mark appeared next to bush. voter contacted poll worker to correct problem but the same thing happened whe she vote the rest of the ballot. she had help and was able to fix ballot before she left, but was concerned.

Palm Beach 2004-11-12 09:12:05 PST A person informed me of a friend who voted. The completed screen (precinct unknown) on the "review ballot" page wrongly stated that the voter had voted for Bush when the voter had selected Kerry. The voter reported this to an election official who responded, "Yes, that machine has been doing that all day."

Palm Beach 2004-11-12 09:15:22 PST She had to select presidential choice 2x before correct choice was reflected. Got help from poll worker; successfully voted. Voted Bush, Kerry got highlighted. Can't remember which machine, maybe 2nd/3rd from right.

Volusia 2004-08-31 05:52:43 PST Voter touched Kerry on screen, got Bush.{cr}{newline }(secondhand report from observer, no contact info for voter)

W. Palm Beach 2004-11-12 08:56:09 PST Tried repeatedly to vote for kerry, got candidate underneath. Was able to vote for Kerry by touching more toward the Bush button.{cr}{newline}machine against back wall, somewhere around the 4th or 5th from the right{cr}{newline}
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GRLMGC Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-06-04 02:14 AM
Response to Original message
1. God
Those bastard machines need to go.
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Liberty Belle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-06-04 02:17 AM
Response to Reply #1
3. Kick! It's just like that joke e-mail before the election.
I assume you, or someone, has forwarded these to the appropriate investigating authorities and media?
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driver8 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-06-04 03:37 AM
Response to Reply #3
27. I knew that was no joke...but this "election" is. n/t
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libmeayer Donating Member (80 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-06-04 09:45 AM
Response to Reply #1
44. I think from now on
we should only consider the results of exit polling as the official one. We always win the exit polls.
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nadinbrzezinski Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-06-04 02:17 AM
Response to Original message
2. So you voted,
are you sure your vote was counted the way you intended?

I asked this today from a "get over it" person... he had that empty stare in his eyes, like I asked the question nobody should be allowed to ask.
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mhr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-06-04 02:18 AM
Response to Original message
4. During Early Voting In Dallas, County TX
I personally observed four occasions where a voter would select straight party Dem and would get some republicans on the summary page.

We used the ES&S iVotronic machines.
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Dr.Phool Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-06-04 02:20 AM
Response to Reply #4
7. Same thing happened
In Pinellas and Pasco County in Florida.
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goldengreek Donating Member (835 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-06-04 01:29 PM
Response to Reply #4
65. I had no problem here in Dallas.
But then again, I didn't vote straight ticket when I early voted. I did, however, make damn sure the right choices were on the summary page. But since there's no paper trail I don't really know who I actually ended up voting for.
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Newsjock Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-06-04 02:19 AM
Response to Original message
5. link please?
so I can cite? thanks.
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TruthIsAll Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-06-04 02:28 AM
Response to Reply #5
12. U GOT IT
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Newsjock Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-06-04 02:29 AM
Response to Reply #12
13. many thanks
.
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Pirate Smile Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-06-04 10:51 AM
Response to Reply #12
51. Does everybody already have all of this information? GAO, Conyers,
Kerry, etc.
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Kellis Donating Member (663 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-07-04 02:14 PM
Response to Reply #51
69. Good Question.
Im forwarding it to everyone on my alert list-juts in case

:kick:
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Dr.Phool Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-06-04 02:19 AM
Response to Original message
6. We had the same thing happen in Pasco
Along with THE POLL SUPERVISOR in Land O' Lakes passing out Christian Coalition voting guides INSIDE the polling place.

We filed a protest, and FOIA requests for the tapes from the machines right after the election, were promised them 2 weeks ago, and are still waiting.
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El Biggo Doggo Donating Member (32 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-06-04 02:24 AM
Response to Reply #6
10. This is getting ri-goddamn-diculous
If we do NOTHING else over the next four years, we need to get inside those machines! We need a Dem/Prog rep, someone everybody trusts, to be there 24/7. I remember Marcos. I lived in Indonesia, where the same party won for, gee, whatta coincidence, 30+ years. If we don't do this at least, we deserve to lose.
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stella2cat Donating Member (157 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-06-04 02:22 AM
Response to Original message
8. were there cases where the machines favored Kerry?
I didn't see any reading through this quickly. Seems to me if it was a hardware issue, the results would be more random.

how come none of the so-called glitches favor Kerry?!!??
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BlueDog2u Donating Member (692 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-06-04 08:25 AM
Response to Reply #8
32. Exactly
Looks to me that it is running at least 100 to 1. I have heard of one single case of a voter punching Bush and getting Kerry. One. That's all. And TIA culled this list from an independent org dedicated to collecting all stories from anyone of voting irregularity. This is proof positive of fraud.
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Hamoth Donating Member (292 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-06-04 08:59 AM
Response to Reply #8
36. A few do favor Kerry
SOmetimes in massive volumes. Check votersunite.org
The ratio is like 50:1 or something.
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SammyWinstonJack Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-06-04 01:17 PM
Response to Reply #36
61. Had to make the machines appear bi-partisan
equal opportunity vote changing machines. :evilgrin:
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RaulVB Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-06-04 02:24 AM
Response to Original message
9. Well, what can I say...
"Florida's electoral standards don't meet international requirements for fair and accurate elections."

* Jimmy Carter (former US President)
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malatesta1137 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-06-04 02:27 AM
Response to Original message
11. we knew this was going to happen MONTHS ago
what's the use of having this come out now? To expose the Bush Crime Family? 55% of Americans know they are mobsters and don't care. In fact, they would love to be partners in crime with the Bushies.

And yet Kerry does nothing. Nothing before the election and nothing now. He's part of the problem.
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RaulVB Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-06-04 02:32 AM
Response to Reply #11
14. I tend to agree, one thing, however...
We need to put Kerry on the White House so he can be asked to fix these problems.

He will be in debt big time with the people working to denounce the fraud, he knows that and he would respect their demands.
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malatesta1137 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-06-04 02:45 AM
Response to Reply #14
18. Kerry in the White House??
From the way he's behaving, the only way he'll be in the White House is if Laura Bush picks him as the chief cook. I've heard he's excellent making waffles.
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RaulVB Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-06-04 02:48 AM
Response to Reply #18
19. He is not perfect...
But he is the man now.

Look, be patient, he is "hinting" at what he is doing.

He has not "moved on", you can rest assured.
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libmeayer Donating Member (80 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-06-04 09:47 AM
Response to Reply #14
45. Yes on January 20th Kerry will be President.
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TruthIsAll Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-07-04 10:33 AM
Response to Reply #45
68. From your mouth to....
.
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Old and In the Way Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-06-04 02:39 AM
Response to Original message
15. If there are that many incidences.....one has to conclude that
there was a software program that was changing the vote.

Those machines should be impounded and tested.

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okieinpain Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-06-04 02:42 AM
Response to Original message
16. I'm sorry but this shit is kerry's fault. that sob had over 300
million dollars. that punk ass mofo knew what the deal was and he said that they were going to be on top of this shit. I just went to the election error site and looked at some of the complaints.

there is all kind of bushit listed. poll workers not knowing how provisional ballots worked. poll workers telling people they are closing the doors regardless if people are still in line, and my favorite is not enough machines for polling areas. hell who has to hack the damn machines, just don't put any out. how's that for stopping people from voting, and the shit goes on and on.

kerry needs his ass kicked for allowing them to pull this shit again.
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RaulVB Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-06-04 02:44 AM
Response to Reply #16
17. We'll kick his ass after he is seated on the Oval Office (n/t)
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marions ghost Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-06-04 09:42 AM
Response to Reply #17
43. Yes, keep up pressure on President Kerry
Right--if this bogus 2004 selection is overturned, we should not let up on President Kerry and the Dem leadership to bring a non-partisan, auditable, democratic voting system to America. The work has really just begun. Brick by brick, it must be taken apart and
rebuilt from the ground up.

I think many in the Democratic party have underestimated the degree of system failure. I don't want to think they have known it for a long time and have done nothing. I think "they tried" to make HAVA contain protections such as paper audit capability, but were easily steamrolled.

I prefer to think the Dems both locally and nationally weren't in a good position to effect real changes because it's just SO BIG a task and the problems are so entrenched. But if they don't get it this time...well, I will Think The Worst. Right now, gonna give em a chance to take up the cause, if they really are the party of the People...but I think they're on thin ice if they don't! All progressive groups have to come together on voting reform now.
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Skarbrowe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-06-04 02:53 AM
Response to Original message
20. So, ya see, every time that Bush came up on a Kerry hit, that added a

vote to Bush, even if it eventually did show a vote for Kerry. Nah, I have no idea how those machines work. That sure would be a sneaky plan though, wouldn't it?

oh, oh..it's a mistake, hit it again, yeah, just hit again, what? still coming up Bush?.. ah, go on, hit it a few more times..yeah.

AH HA! That's how Bush got 200 to 300 thousand more votes than Kerry. hmmmmmm
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Bill Bored Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-06-04 03:17 AM
Response to Original message
21. The obvious question is
why isn't someone smart enough to rig this also smart enough to make it invisible to the user of the machine? We are so used to believing what we see on screens, the TV, the PC, etc. that we'd assume that if it says "Kerry", the vote goes to Kerry. But why would it even be necessary for it to default to Bush on the screen instead of just internally in the code (without changing the display on the screen at all)?

I'm not pooh-poohing the fraud idea -- I'm just suggesting that there are more clever ways to perpetrate it.

How about this theory?:

Show the error on the screen. Give the voter a chance to fix it, and if he/she fails, or doesn't catch it, then maybe it's not fraud. In this case, ultimately it's the fault of the voter. That way, if anyone gets caught, it's a lesser offense and the right wing media will be all over it, blaming the voters for not being able to read what's on the screens.

Comments?
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RaulVB Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-06-04 03:20 AM
Response to Reply #21
22. The most brilliant scams are the most simple ones (n/t)
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Bill Bored Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-06-04 03:22 AM
Response to Reply #22
23. It's an electronic version of the butterfly ballot! n/t
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BlueDog2u Donating Member (692 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-06-04 08:27 AM
Response to Reply #21
33. You're right
Edited on Mon Dec-06-04 08:28 AM by BlueDog2u
I would presume that these visible incidents are the "tip of the iceberg," resulting from a rigged code which somehow did not function exactly as it was supposed to.
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Truman01 Donating Member (733 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-06-04 09:04 AM
Response to Reply #21
38. That was my first thought. n/t
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libmeayer Donating Member (80 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-06-04 09:54 AM
Response to Reply #21
46. But you do not understand.
Rove is too smart to steal the election but he is too stupid to cover up his theft.
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Straight Shooter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-06-04 11:50 AM
Response to Reply #21
53. Excellent theory.
It's the same as when we hit "post message" on DU and it seems to hang there. We hit it again, and lo and behold, we end up with a double post.

Just like in many credit card online functions, they ask you to "please click once" so that your order only goes through once.

Bill Bored, please write to arnebeck@aol.com and explain your theory. That's Mr. Cliff Arnebeck of Alliance for Democracy and he is the attorney spearheading the push to overturn the Ohio election based on what he claims is evidence of votes for Kerry "migrating" to bush.

A letter to kolbermann@msnbc.com is in order, too.

Also, BB, you deserve a toast!

:toast:
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Bill Bored Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-06-04 06:25 PM
Response to Reply #53
67. Arnebeck
Thanks for posting his email, and for the beer, Shooter! I actually wanted to send him the one about the Ohio Chief Justice race in which Bush got 150,000 more votes than Kerry did in the counties where either Bush or Kerry got fewer votes than their parties' judicial candidates. But I think he has a pretty good lead on this already from other sources, although they didn't analyze it exactly the same way I did.

Frankly, I'm a bit discouraged about the official OH count in which Kerry only lowered Bush's margin by 13,000 votes. Seems like Shrub picked up almost half of those provisionals, if you can believe that. Otherwise, they found more votes for him somewhere else. The overseas ballots aren't enough to account for it.

As far as KO, he's doing a good job but just sending him a theory won't yield much, would it? And Dennis Kucinich has said that there were no Diebold touch screen machines used in Ohio.
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okieinpain Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-06-04 12:50 PM
Response to Reply #21
58. yeah, why not. hell just imagine how many people did not even
check to see if ballot was correct. just selected kerry, went to finish and left. especially if they had been waiting in line for over an hour. anybody that has been waiting for over an hour in any line is going to be really anxious to the experience over with.
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w13rd0 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-06-04 03:23 AM
Response to Original message
24. Out of curioisity....
...what prevents a voter from going into one of these electronic machines and voting multiple times? Does a poll worker have to "reset" or collect the vote after each ballot? Just seems like an incredibly dubious mechanism.
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RaulVB Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-06-04 03:27 AM
Response to Reply #24
25. That's the kick
In "theory" a poll worker would prevent you from voting multiple times.

That's your "safety mechanism"...the only one.
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Bill Bored Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-06-04 03:31 AM
Response to Reply #24
26. There's a smart card
A friend of mine in FL (where else?!) told me they issue each voter a smart card that actually has their name stored on a chip, typed in by the poll worker. (So much for the secret ballot, eh?) Anyway, the voter sticks the card in the machine, it greets them by name on the screen, presents the ballot (useful in primaries where there is >1 ballot based on party affiliation) and they vote. Then the card is recycled and used for a subsequent voter. There are only a few of them per precinct. Can anyone confirm that this is how it works?
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w13rd0 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-06-04 04:21 AM
Response to Reply #26
29. If that is true...
...then that is monumentally stupid. Is the vote stored on the card? Because that's what some machines seem to do. And that too, is incredibly stupid. Here's your vote, and the vote of 2000 others. Hey, if I live in a Republican stronghold, I could sacrifice "my vote" and just crunch the card, or steal it, and invalidate thousands of likely Republicans. If the data isn't stored on the Smart Card, it's still pretty lame.
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soup Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-06-04 10:45 AM
Response to Reply #26
50. Sequoia 'smart card' info
Don't know about the other makes, but here's info for the Sequoia AVC Edge.

It sure didn't greet me by name. I'd have freaked out.

"Hello professor. Would you like to play a nice game of chess?"
(Matthew Broderick 'Wargames' movie reference - sorry)

---

How To Vote On This Machine:
When the voter enters the precinct, he or she is given a "smart-card" by a poll worker after confirming the voter is registered. A "smart-card" a card the size and shape of a credit-card contains a computer chip, some memory and possibly basic data such as the voter's political party. The voter then takes the smart-card to a voting machine and inserts the smart-card into the yellow slot visible in the middle picture above. The first screen presented to the voter is one that allows him or her to choose the ballot language. After using the touchscreen to vote, 1) the record of the vote is directly recorded electronically to two flash memory cards and 2) the voter's smart card is reset to ensure that the voter can only vote once. The AVC Edge may also be equipped in some precincts to print a voter-verified paper audit trail using the VeriVote printer. In this case, the voter will inspect the printout which is displayed underneath glass. If the paper accurately reflects the vote, the voter indicates so using the touchscreen and casts the vote; the printed paper is withdrawn into the machine to protect privacy. If the paper is incorrect, the voter may mark it as spoiled and change his or her vote using the touchscreen interface. After the vote is cast, the smart-card pops out of the machine and the voter returns it to a poll worker.
>>More here:
http://verifiedvoting.org/article.php?id=5169

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Bill Bored Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-06-04 01:25 PM
Response to Reply #50
63. Anyone have experience with Diebold FL machines?
My friend in FL said she was greeted by name, which the machine read from the smart card. This doesn't mean the personal info was actually stored in the machine's memory along with the vote, but it could have been.

If she's wrong, I'd be happy to forget about it.

If she's right, it's possible for this info to be used for futurer voter suppression efforts, isn't it? Remember, I'm talkin' 'bout Florida here. Anything's possible in Bush/Disney World!
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Alizaryn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-06-04 03:58 AM
Response to Original message
28. You need to forward this and the link to Conyers and Olbermann
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TruthIsAll Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-06-04 07:54 AM
Response to Original message
30. am kick
.
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HEAVYHEART Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-06-04 08:00 AM
Response to Original message
31. Arrggghhh!! Kick!
Thank you TIA!
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americanwhothinks Donating Member (98 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-06-04 08:44 AM
Response to Original message
34. Truth is All, I have a question for you--
I have tried to access the Florida ABC-7 news report discussed in another thread, and I haven't been able to...It seems that this report is not on the website...anyway, I'm asking you this becuase, well, I explain later, though it's not all that logical..anyway!


I am skeptical by nature, and particularly skeptical when gossip and rumors could sink a ship... (in this case, the credibility of DU!)

so i'm worried-- where is the ABC news report? I can't access it-- so I'm very worried that people are writing thank you's for reports they haven't actually seen?!

can we afford to take anyone's word-- when anyone could be anyone? does this report really exist?

i don't know you at all, but for some reason, (maybe that pic of your kid?) made me think you're the guy to ask--

should we believe ANYTHING until we can see it with our own eyes???

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TruthIsAll Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-06-04 08:56 AM
Response to Reply #34
35. I know nothing more about that post. It better be legit. n/t
.
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americanwhothinks Donating Member (98 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-06-04 09:00 AM
Response to Reply #35
37. well...do you think that question should be raised?
Perhaps, as a DU policy, we shouldn't send thank you's to the media before we've actually seen a given report?

I respect this site tremendously, and I worry about things like this-- a whole bunch of emails sent-- perhaps =prematurely? this would be a clever way to support/ subtantiate the "tinfoil hat" analysis of the DU operation.

Mightn't DU have some suggestions regarding emailing reporters?

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Hamoth Donating Member (292 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-06-04 09:04 AM
Response to Original message
39. We can make this into big news.
With a little science, as was done with the stats on the exit polls being random variation...we have another opportunity to address a fundamental piece of misinformation that has been floating about to dismiss all our discoveries.

I sent this to two journalists...one told me "no way", and the other is Kieth O. I don't know if he would pick up on this or not, so I'm asking all of you about it...

Here's a great idea for a report...

It occurred to me that our great academic institutions that have been so forthcoming regarding the exit poll's statistical probability might also help us with another statistical probability:

Could someone go through the vast archives on a site like say, votersunite.org, and let us know of all the election issues reported, how often machine errors favor Bush over Kerry? This would let us know if we are indeed seeing random machine problems and software glitches, or evidence of padding simply surfacing in extreme cases by being overzealous.

If an unbiased academic were to review the cases and plot them, and tell us the odds of random machine errors favoring Bush say, 80% of the time or something, then this could make some additional news material and be supplied as factual information for our cause. So far, we have been saying this based upon our own observations that machine errors favored Bush more often, but a scientific analysis of these by a nonpartisan group would make our observations into established fact, and therefore newsworthy.

We have the information, and counties will doubtless have official logs and accounts of observed machine problems, how hard would it be for an investigative journalist to get a complete record of all machine problems to date, and to then plot if they favored R's or Dems. The journalist could then take this to a mathematician of their choosing (or different ones for added cred) and ask for the probability that these are random machine errors! That would make an AWESOME report, and the data is right in front of us.

It would be best if we could do this report using the official reports from every state, and not have to rely on media reports. But if the former can not be obtained, then the latter may as well do.

What do you guys think? Anyone know someone who could do this?
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TruthIsAll Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-06-04 09:20 AM
Response to Reply #39
41. The odds:1 in 11 BILLION that 600 of 1000 random machine errors favor Bush
Edited on Mon Dec-06-04 09:29 AM by TruthIsAll
I have already said we just need the data.
We now have the data.

Probability:1-BINOMDIST(600,1000,0.5,TRUE)
= 0.0000000000900598
or 1 out of 11,103,727,321

N.......odds
500 2
510 4
520 10
530 37
540 193
550 1,437
560 15,654
570 250,812
580 5,949,049
590 210,069,988
600 11,103,727,321
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Hamoth Donating Member (292 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-06-04 09:25 AM
Response to Reply #41
42. Appologies
I'm sorry. Was this determined here? If so I'll look it up.
Or is there a mainstream voice, or personality with this? I think the implications here are HUGE. It's one thing for us to go over the odds, but MAN, it's INSANE to have factual evidence that machines love Bush, and for any media to accept the "it was a one-time flaw, it's been corrected" farce.

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Pirate Smile Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-06-04 11:05 AM
Response to Reply #41
52. Is anyone, anywhere going to actually get to look at the programming on
these machines? That was the one thing that seemed really important about recounting Nevada since Vegas was machines without paper trails.
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Hamoth Donating Member (292 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-06-04 12:31 PM
Response to Reply #41
57. But what's the real spread?
We should lean on contacts or researchers here to get us the real data, direct from elections officials. Is there a public place to find a log of "irregularities"?

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farmbo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-06-04 09:13 AM
Response to Original message
40. Nothing to see here...move along...move along...
...and Rove's strategy with the Evangelicals was brilliant, don't you think.

:grr:
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KeireG Donating Member (115 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-06-04 09:55 AM
Response to Original message
47. I knew it was the switching.
My mother voted in Austin, and they're using touch screen voting machines. She said she heard numerous people complaining that when they voted straight-party Democrat, Republicans would be displayed as their final selections. We felt in our guts that it wasn't a coincidence, and now our gut feelings are verified by similar complaints in other states and Wayne Madsen's investigation.
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yourout Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-06-04 10:24 AM
Response to Reply #47
49. Straight Dem selections that pick Reps are....
either INTENTIONAL or a very inept programmer(not likely). Touchsreen calibration after initial setups are fairly stable. Many industrial touchscreens that I use go many years without need of recalibration. This is either intentional fraud or really crappy hardware. The calibration excuse is way to convenient for my taste and favors B* way to often to be random.
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BushSpeak Donating Member (133 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-06-04 10:12 AM
Response to Original message
48. Two possible causes - need tech help to see
Edited on Mon Dec-06-04 10:27 AM by BushSpeak
if this is a software or hardware problem.

One possible cause is the calibration of the machine, ie. the zone of the screen you touch corresponds to a certain candidate. This means that a small or off-centered zone for Kerry would only register if hit directly. I read somewhere that polling workers could be called to re-calibrate the machines. This might be more of a hardware problem.

The other possible cause is finger pressure on the screen, ie. the Kerry zone needed a much much stronger pressure to register. In California, I believe, someone talked about having to hit the Kerry zone several times and really hard to register, but farther along in the ballot there was no problem for a candidate in the same zone.

Both these cases presume that Bush is the default value. This would be an interesting question to ask Diebold, ES&S and friends.

What seems to be the case, is that they didn't need to fudge the software, just make it much more difficult to record a vote for Kerry. This means it was a technical problem and not willful fraud - just like the long lines in Ohio. No criminal intent (sic!)

It would be interesting to get the thoughts of a computer tech on this question.

There is also an interesting DU thread on the latest Madsen article about Florida Republican Representative Tom Feeney asking a computer programmer for NASA writing a program to alter the vote in electonic voting machines.

4th Madsen Article:White House-linked operation paid for "vote switching"
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...
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pgh_dem Donating Member (584 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-06-04 12:24 PM
Response to Reply #48
54. not to get too paranoid, but...
I can't see why the programmers would want to call attention to problems (like having bush's name show up instead of kerry's)...but wouldn't this give the election folks repeated opportunities to do what Madsen's whistleblower alleges, with the pressing one corner and/or the D in President etc to flip the vote?
Under the guise of 'recalibrating the machine'?
Curiouser and curiouser...
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Razorback_Democrat Donating Member (756 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-06-04 12:27 PM
Response to Original message
55. This seems to fit with Madsen
I think

the vote switiching program?

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smartvoter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-06-04 12:28 PM
Response to Original message
56. The pattern matches what you'd expect if someone was padding.
Every so many, and you get a Bush vote instead of a Kerry. It's bizarre. And seriously frustrating.
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Niche Donating Member (687 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-06-04 12:55 PM
Response to Original message
59.  Wonder where 3 Million votes came from?
Right there. Screen lights up, add another vote. oops there's another * light add another vote...
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PATRICK Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-06-04 01:13 PM
Response to Original message
60. variety provides mutual defense
Edited on Mon Dec-06-04 01:15 PM by PATRICK
Vote suppression, ruined registration and polling chaos, machines glitches and FINALLY tally adjustments on site and THEN GEMS manipulation to bump entire counties and states off the blue map. As one might expect, except in crucial states, by the time it got to GEMS the margin was too risky to bump significantly. But I believe certain states, maybe mostly paperless BBV, had to be guaranteed. Still Cheney jetted to Hawaii for a reason. They still might not have made this cumbersome fraud tree work since it is largely unpredictable at tangible ground level.

I think they overreached but they did so in 2002 with no blowback at all. I think they had to stretch the little fraud quite a bit to "win" in key states. The overkill factor. Underestimation lost them PA. They gave up on New Jersey which was an embarrassing setback considering the Dems has nearly abandoned that state to the Bush "surge"! Boy, did they stop talking about Jersey, sweeping it under the 911 NYC-Jersey rug that all the suckers fell for.

This is guesswork without proof, but it is very very plain that if this systematic fraud from grassroots on up is still the reality then any REAL investigative grand jury attack would bring the GOP down in toto, much less call the Bush victory into question. So why is any such effort beyond the pale? Because unlike the tobacco lawsuits it COSTS money and rocks the boat and it simply does not happen except on a token basis for those most isolated and stupid. That was another realization this year though it was the same in 2000. The visible parts look small and no one pays. the bigger changes thus get the benefit of the surrender and each fraud washes the other in that weird GOP way.

The GOP, like the disenfranchised Southern white Democrats of old have built a system of intimidation and fraud that practically weans all their lousy candidates up to prominence and raw power. This is why the quality is so low, because of moral degradation and criminality and why they have no system of trusting the voter except controlling the news and lots of money.

Watch those videos of young GOP poll intimidators. Those young weasels will be showing up as interns and future candidates or judges. Save those tapes and files. They weren't doing it for patriotic conviction!
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Her Blondness Donating Member (156 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-06-04 01:22 PM
Response to Original message
62. In WPB, the touchscreen wouldn't respond to Kerry vote
I started the touchscreen voting smoothly, start "blip", choose english or spanish "blip."

Then it went to the presidential voting screen. I press Kerry. Nothing. I press it again, nothing. Smash smash smash. Press Press press. FINALLY the vote registered. For the rest of the incredibly long ballot, I had no problems.

I was working on the campaign election day, so I forgot about this incident in all the excitement. Then that evening my boyfriend told me how the machine at his precinct (different from mine) wouldn't accept HIS Kerry vote. He told the same story are what had happened to me! I had forgotten about it until he brought it up. I said "OH MY GOD it happened to me too!"

Until he told me it happened to him as well, I assumed it was just an operational anomaly. But what are the odds that the same malfunction happened at different machines in different precincts? And just for the Kerry touch button in a ballot of at least 25 pages? I know touchscreens can become worn with use, but the Palm Beach County machines are brand new.


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renate Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-06-04 01:26 PM
Response to Original message
64. okay, it's not just us... this wasn't an election at all
It was a craps game. With loaded dice.

What are the rules about when an election is clearly (CLEARLY) flawed? Can there ever be a national recount?
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emcguffie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-06-04 01:31 PM
Response to Original message
66. voting machine cartoon
Remember the cartoon going around before the election, "the voting booth"? I don't remember who did it. It was so funny, we thought. And it happened.
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