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cloud75 Donating Member (737 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-08-08 10:12 PM
Original message
Obama tried to fly in south texas support.
Edited on Sat Mar-08-08 10:13 PM by cloud75
During Tuesday's primary my family and other local grassroots supporters of the democratic party were out working the polls for Hillary and in an area that is 85% hispanic the few supporters of Obama were anglos from some other part of the country. They stood out like a sore thumb and they didn't generate much support for obama. The locals were out for Hillary she had genuine support Obama had to fly in supporters and it was really fake and kind of sad.
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WolverineDG Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-08-08 10:25 PM
Response to Original message
1. Actually they were campaign workers & volunteeers
who came to help out those of us who are grassroots Obama supporters. They'd been here for weeks, actually, and got some really positive feedback from the locals who've wisened up to the Valley political machine. And it wasn't just anglos supporting Obama; he's got supporters in the Hispanic community as well.

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theredpen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-09-08 12:11 AM
Response to Reply #1
2. My area is quite diverse ethnically
And we had people of all races on both sides of the room — there were just more of them on Obama's side.
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Horse with no Name Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-09-08 04:30 AM
Response to Original message
3. There is an organized campaign machine that goes from state to state
to "help" with the campaigns.
From what I understand they are very good at intimidation tactics.
In the Dallas area, it was even reported that some of the "out of staters" were the ones running the caucuses in Texas--you know...the ones where the packets were stolen?
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crispini Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-09-08 09:24 AM
Response to Reply #3
4.  the only report that I've heard of this in the Dallas area
was when ex city councilwoman Sandra Crenshaw, who is a well known oddball, flipped out and ran off with her packet. She's a Hillary supporter, BTW.

Do you have any links to back this up? This is the first I've heard of it. And I'd think, being on the ground in Dallas, I'd have heard. I've certiainly been paying attention. I was downtown at the party office the other day, and by and large, everryone sounded like the caucuses has generally went ok. Including the county chair.
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Horse with no Name Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-10-08 12:41 AM
Response to Reply #4
12. what kind of links would be sufficient?
I mean...there are hundreds of reports out there about the caucus irregularities.
What is sufficient for you to believe me?
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crispini Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-10-08 09:32 AM
Response to Reply #12
14. You specifically alleged reports in Dallas of people suppressing Clinton supporters.
To me, that's not a "caucus irregularity," but something much more deliberate, malicious, specific and serious, and I'd like to see a link to, specifically, what you said, an account of a precinct convention in Dallas where an out-of-state Obama supporter stole the packet and ran their convention.

Yes, there are hundreds of reports about people not entirely following the rules, but every report I've seen attributes most of them to people not entirely knowing the process and/or hundreds of people having shown up. By and large, most of the reports I've read are stories of precinct chairs who were simply overwhelmed and unprepared. That's hardly the same thing as out of state Obama supporter deliberately stealing the packet.

I have read all the stories here:

and the Dallas-specific blogs here: / /

And the only completely wacked-out incident I can find in Dallas is this one: /

Major problems tonight at the Singing Hills Recreation Center, Precinct 3549. 23 of 23 delegates were going to be awarded to Obama. Chair announced herself a Clinton supporter and said she was taking the sheets home to correct them. She was screaming and yelling, and folks tried to physically restrain her and take the packet from her, but couldnt. Someone was videotaping the whole thing.

Now, Sandra Crenshaw is a long-time, well known nutcase in these parts, and I'm not holding the fact that she was a Clinton supporter against ALL Clinton supporters. :D

As a precinct chair and election judge I can tell you that we were instructed very specifically about who to release the packet to (the precinct chair) and when (at 7:15) via a letter delivered on election day by the sheriff's officials, who do the running for the elections.

I also spent some time hanging out at the DCDP office during the day-after aftermath, and it's my impression from the volunteers there, as well as the county chair, that although there problems, most of them were disorganizational in nature, and that most of the caucuses went pretty well, albeit pretty long.
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Horse with no Name Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-10-08 12:51 PM
Response to Reply #14
15. Here you go

The three most egregious categories are (Dallas County mentioned):

1) Irregularities: Prematurely Taking Precinct Convention Packets by Obama Campaign

Numerous calls have shown that Obama supporters prematurely removed convention packets from polling places. Packets may not legally given out until 7:15 PM or when the last voter has cast a ballot in the primary. The Texas State Party warned the Obama campaign in writing that they may not take these packets early or remove them from the polling locations. The Party directed that these irregularities be reported to law enforcement "since they amount to criminal violations." The Party stated "removing convention packets . . . will not be tolerated."

2) Voter Intimidation: Lock-out of Clinton caucus goers by Obama Campaign

Numerous calls have been received that the Obama campaign has taken over caucus sites and locked the doors, excluding Clinton campaign supporters from participating in the caucus. The Clinton supporters have been unable to enter the premises to caucus. In at least one instance, law enforcement was called and forcibly opened the caucus site.
3. There are numerous instances of Obama supporters filing out precinct convention sign-in sheets during the day and submitting them as completed vote totals at caucus. This is expressly against the rules. The sign-in sheets were copied by the Obama campaign from the Texas Democratic Party website and taken by supporters to various polling places to sign-up caucus goers prior to the start of the caucuses
Hunt County:
I am a Hunt County Texas resident who returned to the poll where I vote for the Texas two step voting process. I was denied my right to vote my other 1/3 vote. Myself and approximately 40 other people stood in line at precinct 218 for over an hour in the cold tonight without being able to cast our second vote. The individuals who worked the polls called the Hunt County Sheriff's Department on us because there were numerous elderly people standing in line who were tired and cold and wanted to go in and sit down. People were knocking on the doors and the election workers would not answer the door. In fact they called the Sheriff's Dept on us.

We were told by the Hunt County Sheriff's Dept. that the Democratic Party failed to send a person to chair the caucus at Precinct 218. We were advised by the Hunt County Sheriff's Office to disperse and go home. Our voices were not heard. We were denied our right to vote in the Texas two step process. Is Hunt County pulling for one individual in the Democratic party and they are trying to control the votes by not allowing all precincts the right to be heard? I cannot believe that I live in the United States of America, went to vote and Precinct 218 officials called the Sheriff's Dept. on us. Then we tried to be heard by calling local news channels and no one cared there either. I was denied my right to my second vote at Precinct 218.

Denton County:
I am a new Texas resident and I was appalled at the caucus practices of Little Elm (Denton County) TX... and I have the pictures to prove it. There were too many people for such a small town hall to be the voting location for so many precincts. With temperatures hovering in the low 50s, people were made to cast their caucus votes in the parking lot of the town hall. With no bullhorns, workers were forced to yell out instructions to in excess of 3,000 people. The handicap, the elderly and mothers with infants were forced to wait in the cold and herded around the parking lot like cattle in soggy wet grass with no seating and utter disarray. With the recent growth of Little Elm, clearly this was NOT thought through. Are we in the stone age people? Don't believe me? In this era of the camera phone, I have the pictures to prove it. Picture of an elderly wheelchair bound handicap woman waiting for instructions in the cold... pictures of an elderly man with no jacket waiting in the cold. WE HAVE GOT TO DO BETTER DENTON COUNTY!!!! ;jsessionid=ac11067e30d8a7d6e0321f434a68b8d9de9e36d0492e.e3qNbhyLc3iNe3uLb3uRbxyPc40?start=0&tstart=0
According to CNN buried in the bottom of an article (but still there)...Clinton says that it may challenge the state's caucus results. Well that is not a surprise considering what happened. There were according to CNN and the Democratic National Party hundreds of complaints of mischief (they call it mischief) caused by the Obama campaign at caucuses across the state of Texas. The Associated Press has sent out an official story. Clinton officials cite evidence according to the hundreds of reports filed that Obama supporters illegally obtained caucus packets in several precincts throughout the state. They stole the caucus packets for the precincts. What happens then is that under caucus rules whomever has the packet is placed in charge of the caucus. Now that is illegal and no campaign supporter (only a neutral selected party should have been in charge). The Associated Press and CNN said that Obama supporters locked Clinton voters out of caucuses throughout the state. They locked them out of the location. And in the cities they were climbing on the tables and yelling at the top of their lungs that this is the way it was going to be. Bizarre, illegal and in violation of voting rights laws; never mind if the Democratic National Party does nothing again. Hillary needs to stand up.

You are right! On Tuesday night, March 4, 2008, I attended my precinct's, precinct 63's convention. It was held in the cafeteria of Hughston elementary school. Precinct 32's convention was held in the same cafeteria. I observed a young man come in with a folder from the Obama campaign who secured the election packet for Precinct 32 and proceeded to run Precinct 32's convention. As we were collecting signatures for Precinct 63, the same young man came over to me as I was serving as convention secretary for Precinct 63. He showed his voter registration card and photo id and signed in to Precinct 63 as a supporter of Senator Obama. He was clearly, by the voter records, a member of Precinct 63. He then proceeded
back to Precinct 32, where he continued to run their convention. Several people came over from Precinct 32 to ask me questions as they had concerns with how their precinct was collecting signatures. They said the young man was telling
people who had not brought their voter registration cards or receipts from early voting, to just sign in anyway because the names would be checked later for validity. I informed them that that wasn't how we were running our convention-- we were validating voters via the voter record and photo id if they forgot their voter card. I know for a fact that it wasn't until late in the evening, after they had allocated and selected delegates, that the same young man went and got the Voter Record books from the elections judge. Plus when we were collecting our signature pages, one page had gone missing with 4 Clinton signatures on it. Fortunately, the people had waited while we double-checked everything and they got to sign in. Two of these people were quite eldery, and the wife was disabled. Shame on whatever Obama supporter tried to disenfranchise these people.I have reported the fraud to both the Democratic Party and the Clinton campaign. I have several witnesses besides myself.

You can be an Obama supporter or a Clinton supporter and be the convention chair or secretary. What is absolutely required is that you have to have voted in that precinct! No outsiders!

was also a participant in the Precinct 30 convention in Whitehouse. Being new to Texas, I have never attended one of these events before and am not sure I would want to do it again. The behavior I witnessed from other precinct participants left a bad taste in my mouth, to say the least. After voting in the chairman and secretary, the group went about voting for the candidates. Then, while the chairman was reading the results, a precinct member accused the chairman of holding an "unfair" process, which resulted in the chairman announcing his departure to the group. At which point we were left with no chairman and hardly an idea how to regroup. After a lengthy amount of time we voted for a new chairman and resumed our process of nominating the delegates.

There seemed to be a very divisive nature to the proceedings; and that resulted in alot of frustration and bad feelings. I can only hope that the next time this precinct meets again, they remember that they are privileged to partake in such an American process, and leave behind the bad behavior.

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crispini Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-10-08 01:44 PM
Response to Reply #15
17. Plenty of anecdotal evidence goes the other way as well
Universal City (Bexar County) Texas
Prct 4079/4089.
I was an election clerk at these location an I also obesrve a ball of confusion. It appeared to me that the election judge had pre-prepared the sing in list with his name on the very first line for Clinton and that a friend of his received the package and started the process before the polls were closed. I interjected and attempted to put the process in order. Our polls closed at 7:25 and there were many Obama backers there. Im not sure of the final count because it was chaos. I understand that the cacus waass to last two hours after the polls closed.
There has to be a better way of doing this. Some folks were unhappy with the proccess.

I live in precinct 0375 in east Harris county.I attended a couple of caucus training sessions at the Obama campaign office.The training was helpful and informative.My precinct is predominately hispanic so I had no illusions about what would happen at the caucus.What did happen pretty much defines The Clinton Campaign in a nutshell.About 10 minutes before the polls closed a Clinton supporter,buttons and all swooped into the polling place and grabbed the paperwork for the caucus.He appointed a lady to be secretary and then since he had no idea there were sign up sheets in the packet he began passing around a spiral notebook for people to begin signing in on.This is with voting still going on and at least a hundred or more people still in line to vote.I advised him that sign ups could not begin until the last voter had voted.Miracously ,he found the sign in sheets and when the last voter had voted,he told the caucus participants that they could sign in and go home.68 people signed in and left.56 for Clinton,12 for Obama.No permanent chair was elected,no secretary was elected,no delegates were elected and actually no caucus was held.I stayed around to get the caucus total from the sign in sheets.When I left, the idiot who had hijacked the whole process, was still trying to divide 56 by 68 in long division on the back of a piece of paper.This guy never spent a minute trying to learn about the process,but yet he felt entitled to take over the whole thing.His campaign will go by the rules if its convenient,if not, they will just make some up.

Paid outside agitator (0.00 / 0)
Here's what happened in precinct 421 (Travis Heights) in Austin:

Things were contentious from the start, despite our being a close-knit and friendly neighborhood. It was naturally chaotic, with 460 people lining up behind card tables in a chcurch parking lot to sign in. But there was also clear mistrust and division from the beginning, when the vote for caucus chair (a entirely administrative task) immediately became a party-line contest between the two camps. Then a paid Clinton staffer from Florida (as he identified himself to me later) jumped up to demand a head count of folks actually in attendance -- which is, of course, totally irrelevant, since delegates are apportioned according to the sign-ins. Then he started in with allegations that people were allowed to sign in without proper identification, which may have been true given the chaos, but which was not an issue to be determined at the precinct convention. Finally he shut up and things progressed relatively smoothly, although there was a great deal of anger expressed within the Obama crowd about the obviously headquarters-directed challenges.

But by far most of the anecdotal evidence I've seen has been that most precincts went well and that people on both sides did a lot to try and ensure that the results were fair and everyone was counted.
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Horse with no Name Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-10-08 01:58 PM
Response to Reply #17
19. Which was PRECISELY my point
and why I asked what would be "sufficient" evidence".
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crispini Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-10-08 02:17 PM
Response to Reply #19
20. Well, I was wondering if you'd seen something specific to Dallas I hadn't.
But it seems to me your original point was something along the lines that Obama supporters were creating the bulk of the difficulties. I don't see any way that anyone can substantiate that (from either side) until such time as the complaints are made public and investigated, which will come out at the credentials committee of the senatorial districts and county parties.

I just think that most of 'em probably went pretty well, and I'm pleased as pie to see all the new people turn out and hope we can manage to keep them involved.
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Horse with no Name Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-10-08 02:50 PM
Response to Reply #20
21. Well I certainly hope they decide to stay around
because someone is going to have to pick up the slack of the ones that have been run off by these types of tactics.
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WolverineDG Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-11-08 08:54 AM
Response to Reply #15
23. Your Hunt, Tyler, & Denton county incidents aren't tied to any candidate
so stop trying to blame Obama for those.

Stop distorting the truth.

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WolverineDG Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-09-08 09:49 AM
Response to Reply #3
6. Horse, please
The only ones crying "intimidation by Obama people" were those who went into their precinct conventions with the intent to run them improperly. I know I got smacked with that charge because I (a) insisted that I was the Temporary Chair, as per TDP rules since I am the precinct chair & (b) that we follow the agenda set out by the TDP. I was told to my face that I was being "allowed to do that" only to a certain point, after which "they" would take over. Furthermore, someone came up to me & insisted she had been appointed the Permanent Secretary & got all huffy when I told her how to do it correctly.


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Horse with no Name Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-10-08 12:40 AM
Response to Reply #6
11. I have read the reports all over
about how the caucuses were handled.
And you are probably correct--the only ones crying intimidation are Hillary supporters because the only ones intimidated were the Hillary supporters.
That much I will acknowledge.
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WolverineDG Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-10-08 07:19 AM
Response to Reply #11
13. Any links?
any articles actually examining what happened, or just "reports."

It's not Obama's fault that his offices actually trained folks in how to run the caucuses according to the rules. All Hillary apparently did was tell her people to grab the packet.

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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-10-08 12:52 PM
Response to Reply #13
16. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
WolverineDG Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-10-08 01:51 PM
Response to Reply #16
18. Not where I live
so no, it's not a lie, but an observation. Some never read the packet, opened it, or anything. A few have not been turned in & one was found in the parking lot. Sorry if the truth of the matter (ie, do not "allow" Obama supporters to hold positions of authority) clashes with your version of reality.

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alteredstate Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-09-08 02:20 PM
Response to Reply #3
8. Not true.
"Out-of-staters" worked as volunteers in Texas. We helped with caucus training, but did not take an active part in the precinct conventions.
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Honeycombe8 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-09-08 09:36 AM
Response to Original message
5. Don't be a sadsack, please. They couldn't vote if they weren't from there.
He probably flew in campaign workers.

Kudos to him for fighting for whatever few votes he got down there, and didn't just concede.

Believe me, everyone in the country knew who south TX would be voting for. But he presented his case to them, anyway, and even in southeast Texas, where the KKK headquarters.

This is to be admired, not denigrated. You do your candidate no service by being so petty.
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alteredstate Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-09-08 02:02 PM
Response to Original message
7. Reality check
Edited on Sun Mar-09-08 02:25 PM by alteredstate
In recent weeks, the Obama campaign staff opened a number of offices throughout the state. Volunteers from all over the country showed up to get out the vote for our candidate.

Most of the SC Obama campaign staff was sent to Texas -- Houston and Dallas, so I spent a week in Houston volunteering with the team from Charleston. They're the best grassroots team in the country, and we worked together for eight months to come from behind and win the SC primary. I'd follow them anywhere.

I was an observer at a Houston Precinct Convention, and I attended the training sessions we offered to voters. A goodly amount of the training was devoted to proper behavior at the caucus. Obama supporters were told to adhere to caucus rules and to be respectful of all caucusers. Out-of-state volunteers did not "run" the caucuses; in fact, volunteers did not take an active part in the precinct conventions.

No one "flew" me in. The Obama campaign does not pay volunteers' expenses. I paid for my plane ticket, my lodging and my rental car. I didn't have to pay for many meals, because the incredible Houston Obama supporters brought food to our office every day! Some of the members of my volunteer team stayed at supporters' homes. I can't say enough about the hospitality shown to me and my teammates. We love Texas!

No scandal, nothing untoward going on.
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TexasThoughtCriminal Donating Member (890 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-09-08 03:02 PM
Response to Reply #7
9. Thank you for caring enough about democracy to rearrange your life
And I would say the same to the Hillary volunteers who traveled to other states on their own dime.

You face the difficult balancing act of helping out the local team without appearing as orange hatted outsiders. And I have not doubt the majority of you were trained and acted within the laws and Dem Party rules.
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alteredstate Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-09-08 03:12 PM
Response to Reply #9
10. Thanks!
I've used up most of my vacation days, but I hope to join the SC team in PA in 5 weeks!
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fudge stripe cookays Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-11-08 05:21 AM
Response to Reply #9
22. Orange hatted outsiders?

Butthead. But I still love you.

fsc<-- ex orange-hatted outsider
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TexasThoughtCriminal Donating Member (890 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-11-08 03:30 PM
Response to Reply #22
24. I want an orange hat!
I wish I had gone, but maybe not since it backfired (well according to the M$M pundits who like to simplisticly boil down every voter trend to concrete nouns: tears, red phones, orange hats, etc.)

How ya been, darlin'? Sorry you missed all the fun here. :hi:
Did reprehensor get to caucus?
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fudge stripe cookays Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-11-08 07:42 PM
Response to Reply #24
25. Hi sweetie!
No, reprehensor is only a permanent resident (we kept our options open, just in case!). And I'm ashamed to admit it, but I wasn't crazy about either choice left to me, so didn't do the primary. I'm registering before November, though.

I actually saw a little of the orange hat problems myself during it all-- the records kept were not good enough, so we were calling and canvassing a lot of the same people. Things broke down a bit towards the end, sadly. But it was an experience I wouldn't trade for anything. While sitting at a Starbucks down the street from HQ, I was interviewed by 2 reporters-- one from Paris Match, and 1 from the Daily Mail, fer cryin out loud! And driving around in a van full of crazy gay boys in outer Mongolia, Iowa, getting lost and listening to the Triumph the Comic Dog CDs remains a hilarious memory.

Miss you guys so much! I'm seriously jonesing for Chuys! :9
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