Ohio Bill would lock up all sex offenders for life; without parole.

[liberalnurse]

I have been planting seeds regarding this issue with Ohio Legislators.......I'm 100% benind this! I want to give my feed back on this when it goes to Committee.

LIFE WITOUT PAROLE!!!!!!!!!YES!

snip>

http://www.wdtn.com/index.cfm?action=dsp_story&storyid=73046

Ohio legislators are working on a plan to keep violent sex predators behind bars for life.

State Representative Courtney Combs, flanked by Butler County Sheriff Richard Jones, held a press conference on Tuesday announcing the new legislation. Both men say after seeing all the recent tragedies involving predators who re-offend, they say there's no other choice to protect our children.

"There's not a day goes by you don't see 'em in the news most of 'em are re-offenders. Makes me sick to my stomach," said Jones.

Representative Combs said his bill would lock up offenders for life, "Under this law, convicted of sex crime deemed to be a sexually violent predator, you will spend the rest of your life in jail without the possibility of parole."

The bill could go to committee this fall. Combs hopes to have the bill on the floor of the House by end of year.

[noamnety]

1. This is horrifying

"In United States v. Mound, 157 F.3d 1153, 1154, (8th Cir. 1998) (en banc), four dissenting Judges cite Law Review articles citing statistics finding the recidivism rate of released sex offenders is the second lowest rate of recidivism of all convicted felons. In State v. Krueger, Case No. 76624 (December 19, 2000, Eighth Judicial District of Ohio, unreported), two female Judges reversed a Sexual Predator adjudication, finding the statute is based on a false assumption and in essence, an "old wives tale" of popular beliefs contradicted by empirical data.

By writing the National Criminal Justice Reference Center, P.O. Box 6000, Rockville, Maryland 20849-6000, you can obtain the following reports.

NCJ-163392 (February 7, 1997), Sex Offenses and Offenders: An Analysis of Data on Rape and Sexual Assault, finds the recidivism rate of 2,214 convicted rapists released from prison was 7.7% after three years. The only category of crimes with a lower recidivism rate are those persons convicted of murder (6.8%).

NCJ-193427 (June, 2002), Recidivism of Prisoners Released in 1994, finds the recidivism rate of 3,138 convicted rapists released from prison was 2.5% after three years. The only category of crimes with a lower recidivism rate are those persons convicted of murder (1.2%)."

http://www.prisonerlife.com/articles/articleID=42.cfm

[jobycom]

4. The article says "violent" sex offenders

I would assume that means sex offenders who have committed violent crime in conjunction with the sex offense. Do the numbers address that type of criminal?

[liberalnurse]

9. Not yet.......it's still in development.

Sexual assault is violent......thus they will need to coordinate the bill with felony level convictions....

[jobycom]

18. A sex offender

can be anything from a serial rapist/murderer to an 18 year old caught in the back seat with his sixteen year old girlfriend. The latter is unlikely to commit further crimes, the former, by definition, is. There are lot more of the latter type than the former, and that would skew the numbers in the surveys being cited.

There needs to be some way to keep the former off the streets without accidentally picking up the latter. And to avoid sentencing someone to life for a momentary lapse of reason. I can imagine a young man beating and raping a girlfriend during a fight, and being labelled a violent sex offender. Though his crime would be bad, and should be punished, I'm not sure he's the one that needs to wind up in jail until he dies.

ANd we need to be sure of what kind of numbers we are dealing with. If seven or eight out of a hundred will repeat their crime, that's 93 or 94 people who will die in jail for the actions of six or seven. Not a high enough percentage to justify such a law.

I really don't trust laws that tie the hands of a judge and jury, and require extreme sentencing without mitigation. A three strikes violent sex offender, perhaps. Maybe a two timer. But the judge should have leeway to decide. If the first crime is horrendous enough, there are usually additional crimes involved that can extend the sentence.

Child rapists, of course, are a different animal.

I don't think I like the law. I can't imagine a law requiring all violent sex offenders to die in prison being passed, or standing up to SCOTUS, anyway. I like the idea of keeping the repeat offenders off the streets, but I think Clinton's three strikes law does that already, unless I missed its repeal or something.

Just my thoughts.

[noamnety]

10. This bill is a knee jerk overreaction

From an April, 2001 Ohio Department of Rehabilitation and Correction (ODRC) report:

"The ODRC finds, "Contrary to the popular idea that sex offenders are repeatedly returning to prison for further sex crimes, in this population a sex offender recidivating for a new sex offense within 10 years of release was a relatively rare occurrence." Id. at page 15, ¶ 4. "

(from the same link as above)

I don't know any convicted sex offenders personally. And my sister was raped by a serial rapist. So I don't have a hell of a lot of sympathy for these people.

None the less, sentencing someone to a life prison not because of the crime they committed - but rather on the supposition that they WILL comit a crime - is no better than holding people in Gitmo because they MIGHT be terrorists. And to do it based on media hype and hysteria (see quote in OP) rather than actual statistics makes it all the more like Gitmo.

[Finder]

16. Good points

I agree with you.

[Heddi]

21. Isn't this like thoughtcrime?

You MAY rape again, therefore, we will keep you locked up forever.

I was molested when I was young. My molester (in the pre-sex offender registry days) was a serial rapist who always got very light sentences because he'd plead down from RAPE to assault, or buggery or something else that would only garner him a sentence of less than 3 years.

I think the key is to make the initial sentences longer with a much longer and more stringent parole afterwards. I'm all for house arrest and ankle bracelets.

This reminds me of a pedophile that was arrested and incarcerated because his parole officer found erotic pedophillic fantasises written in his journal. There was no proof whatsoever that he had actually molested a child, or even dealt with children since he was relelased from prision. But he wrote some pretty explicit sexual fantasies in his diary.

As abhorrent I find pedophiles, I don't think this guy deserved to be arrested and reincarcerated. He didn't molest anyone. He wasn't writing a first-hand account, but rather a fantasy.

That would be like me getting arrested for murder because I wrote about how much I'd love to kill my boss in my journal. Even if I never killed her, planned on killing her, or made moves to kill her. Just the THOUGHT of killing her is enough to land you behind bars. Or at least the THOUGHT of having sex with children was enough to put that guy behind bars.

I'm no fan of thoughtcrime at all. Why not just lock up everyone since we ALL have the potential to do SOMETHING bad at SOMETIME in our life given the right situations.

[anitar1]

23. They just don't get caught IMO. Sex offenders DO NOT change.

n/t

[mikehiggins]

5. What is the data on child molesters? eom

[liberalnurse]

8. I respect your stats.....

but they are still too high! One is too high for me....I will like it if there is no need to do recidivism stats at all. Give them life without parole.

Again, this is the beginning stages of writing a Bill......
I want to get all the data possible....

[mongo]

22. liberalnurse - I understand your concern.

And violent sex offenders should be punished - severely. Usually, if they are prosecuted, they ARE punished severely - much harder than other kinds of assaults, etc.

But if ONE is too high of a rate of re-offenders, then what about a crime where there IS a high recidivism rate.

Drunk drivers are way more likely to re-offend than a sex offender of any stripe. Each one is a manslaughter case waiting to happen. Should we also lock first time DUI offenders up for life? Suspend their license forever?

What about innocent people that sometimes get caught up in a sex crime witch hunt? How many innocent people going to prison for life are too many?

If this passes, what offense will be next in the list of offenses where the risk of re-offending will be so great we will lock you up for life?

Sorry, but the similarities to this and what we are doing at Gitmo are too great for me.

[anitar1]

24. link to statisics on drunk drivers versus sex offenders, please?

I would like to know if a study has been done on which offender is the worst, just to back up your claim. Our law enforcement is spead so thin that these people cannot be tracked all the time. They do not belong in society, IMO. I will never think otherwise. They are people who ruin lives. I have known too many people who have been victims.

[jody]

2. How do you define "sex offender"? n/t

[liberalnurse]

6. The bill is only in the initial stages.

I have contacted Representative Combs regarding my support for developing the Bill. All these issues will be addressed in Committee....it's very, very early yet.....

I will keep folks updated as it evolves. I love all the critical thinking offered. Keep up the good idea's so that this Bill becomes fair and reasonable.

[jobycom]

3. One problem with it

What's to stop an offender who has just committed a violent sex crime from killing his victim? I mean, if the penalty will beasically be the same whether he kills her or not, why wouldn't he go ahead and kill her, so she can't testify against him? I don't think the death penalty is a greater deterent than life in prison for most people in that position.

I'm just asking, I haven't decided yet whether this is good or bad.

[liberalnurse]

7. Many predators tend to want to

re-offend with their victims....keep them as "theirs". Some on the other hand just are not up to murder....then some indeed are. The ones that can murder do just that and are he sickest of them all.

I can't see the law changing any of the predators behavior. They are what they are....completely narcissistic.

I plan on doing a lot of research on this too.

[noamnety]

11. When you say "many"

What percent do you mean?

Does many = 1 out of a hundred? 5? 80?

[liberalnurse]

12. No stats at the moment.....

just sharing my professional opinion working in Corrections....with sex offenders in that group.

[noamnety]

13. Then I would request

that you refrain from any sort of quantitative statement until you have stats. That's part of making sure you are being intellectually honest in this, rather than basing it on emotional pleas.

Other concerns I have:

1. This may make it exponentially harder to get a rape conviction. A jury hearing a date rape case - he said/she said - may have a gut feeling that the woman is telling the truth, and may be willing to convict on that. But if it changes to an automatic life sentence, the result may be that more rapists are allowed to walk with no jail time or record at all.

2. If this isn't a knee-jerk reaction, I'm not sure of the logic behind zeroing in on rapists specifically. Why not drunk drivers? They are MORE likely to repeat their crime. They kill people, too. So why not lock them up for life at the first offense?

3. Could your concerns be more simply addressed with the use of an electronic ankle bracelet?

[liberalnurse]

14. My thoughts here......

#1. You bring out a good point regarding date-rape. This crime still is lumped into the Rape category. It should be re-defined in criminal law to a lesser degree.

#2. The issue is about rapist...not drunk driving. Thats another issue.

#3. I'll bring up the electronic ankle bracelet option for SOME....maybe first time offenders. This will no doubt get very complicated.

Remember, this is all new and just in the development stage. You bring up great angles to consider! Keep it up.

[noamnety]

15. On points 1 & 2

1. Why should date rape be classified differently than rape by a stranger? What's the logic in that? If a guy tricks a girl into going out with him before he rapes her, should he get a lesser sentence?

2. I was asking WHY you are singling out this particular crime. What is the reason for singling out a specific crime that, as it happens, has a lower than average repeat rate, rather than making it a generic bill for ALL violent criminals and drunk drivers?

[liberalnurse]

17. Response....

1. I just don't think date-rape equates violent rape. Like levels of assult.

1. Ohio Representative Combs is going to sponsor this bill....I just am going to contribute my 2 cents in committee...

[noamnety]

19. More questions

1. How do you define "violent" rape? If it's forced rape, but thte guy bought you dinner first, is it date rape? Or violent rape?

2. You evaded the question a bit with that answer. Would YOU support the bill if it addressed all violent criminals and ALL drunk drivers? Do you (personally) think the bill should apply to all of them?

3. How do you feel about profiling, in general?

[Heddi]

20. How does date rape not equal violent rape

Do you think that date rape is some "well, she said no...but only after I got it in" scenario? Hardly. Date rape is just as violent as "violent" rape that occurs when a stranger breaks into your house. Please. Read stories of victims of date rape. See pictures of their bruises and broken limbs. Then tell them that their rape wasn't 'violent'.

[anitar1]

25. I read that Martha Stewart said that she knew how to

disable her ankle braclet. Wheather she was joking or not, I cannot say.