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sabbat hunter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-20-05 06:17 AM
Original message
screw the TWU
the MTA came back and made a very fair offer 3% raises for 3 years, leaving the retirement age at 55 the only proviso that the new workers would have to pay 6% into the pension for the first 10 years of their employement before dropping down to 3%. the TWU rejected it without a counter offer and walked out of the talks, calling a strike at 3am.

apparently 1/3rd of the TWU exec board voted against a strike, but a strike is what we have.

normally i support unions wholeheartedly but in this case the TWU is being ridiculous. the union leaders face certain jail time, the union itself heavy fines and the workers being fined 2 days pay for each one struck (in effect losing 3 days pay, cause they dont get paid the days they struck)

they could have declared an impasse and gone to arbitration.
they could have negotiated more but refused.
now we all pay the price.

what more does the TWU want?
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NorthELiberal Donating Member (125 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-20-05 06:55 AM
Response to Original message
1. what more does the TWU want?
Edited on Tue Dec-20-05 06:59 AM by NorthELiberal
They want to show the threat of strikes are not just a bluff, but a real possiblity...... so the next time any union threatens to strike they will be taken seriously. The public should understand what is at stake.

SUPPORT THE UNION!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


P.S. - Yes, I do live in NYC and I am going to half to walk everywhere.
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KurtNYC Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-20-05 12:38 PM
Response to Original message
2. The MTA is screwing us all
Arrest Peter Kalikow for theft of public assets.

And did Bloomberg go to Brooklyn just so he could be photographed walking over the Brooklyn Bridge?! Had he put as much effort into negotiations as he did into planning his photo op we might not be in this situation.

The MTA tried to steal $1 billion in their westside yards land deal (selling $1.1 billion worht of land for $100-million).

The MTA answers to no one, opens their books for no one and negotiates with no one. If the workers can get a deal from them then more power to the Union.
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lifelong Democrat Donating Member (7 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-21-05 01:47 AM
Response to Original message
3. Crush the strikers! Make them pay!
The MTA announced a $1 billion surplus and that they would give freebies to the riders, but cried poverty and demanded cuts from the workers in negotiations. The MTA established the expiration date of the contract as Dec 15 to pressure the workers to accede to the City's demands. It worked for 25 years, but the arrogance of the MTA caused the strike. This could have been settled months before the contract ended, but the City does not do that because they rely upon the Taylor law to cow the unions into accepting an unacceptable contract.

If there were fairness, the MTA and the Mayor would be the ones held responsible.

(Tactically the strike is wrong. The Transit Workers are among just a few City Workers who collect cash for a service. If they wanted to punish NYC, they whould have declared FREE days until the contract is settled and not collect any fares from the riders. The people would have the service and the workers would not be on strike, but the income would be gone. The riders would not be inconvenienced and Mr Mayor and the MTA would get the message.)

>>the MTA came back and made a very fair offer 3% raises for 3 years, leaving the retirement age at 55 the only proviso that the new workers would have to pay 6% into the pension for the first 10 years of their employment before dropping down to 3%. the TWU rejected it without a counter offer and walked out of the talks, calling a strike at 3am. <<
Doubling the 3% contribution would negate the 3% raise = 0% raise. The offer was not a reasonable one and not worth consideration.

>>apparently 1/3rd of the TWU exec board voted against a strike, but a strike is what we have.<<
That's what happens in a democracy - the majority wins.

>>normally i support unions wholeheartedly but in this case the TWU is being ridiculous. the union leaders face certain jail time, the union itself heavy fines and the workers being fined 2 days pay for each one struck (in effect losing 3 days pay, cause they dont get paid the days they struck)<<
The TWU is the trial balloon. The City wants to cut where ever it can and they figured they could float the pension issue and see if it would be accepted. If the TWU accepted, the proposal would be citywide.

>>they could have declared an impasse and gone to arbitration.<<
Then, when the arbiter rules that the City wins, there is no recourse. The workers are screwed again.

>>they could have negotiated more but refused.<<
The package presented was the MTA's F I N A L O F F E R. They said, "Take it or eat shit!" That seems to make more negotiations kinda difficult.

>>now we all pay the price.<<
Oh stop! The walking will do you good.

>>what more does the TWU want?<<
A fair settlement and the support of an understanding riding public. They don't want to be dominated by bureaucrats, attacked by the press and castigated by their fellow workers who ate up the deceptions of the ruling class and regurgitate them like today's talking points. The City is a master at 'divide and conquer' and you are a perfect example of how effective they are.
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DireStrike Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-21-05 08:26 PM
Response to Reply #3
11. "Support of an understanding... public"
Then why don't Toussaint & co SAY things like that? There are plenty of new yorkers who would understand the logic of their position if it were spread around.

It's very hard to convince ordinary people, like my mother, who are not aware of the general state of the labor conflict. She gets a 2% raise and laughed at the TWU proposal of 24% over 3 years.

Of course the media is not showing the TWU position. The best we get of "the other side" is the interviews with low-level transit employees who themselves don't seem to understand the conflict. They're being painted as unreasonable and getting crushed in the court of public opinion. And in the high courts too, it seems. It looks like they have no leverage at all, and will surely lose, so joe public thinks they're being stubborn and wonders why they don't give up.

Your idea about about free rides is great, for the buses at least. You should tell Toussaint. Someone needs to give the guy a clue.
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tedzbear Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-21-05 01:59 AM
Response to Original message
4. MTA executive director given 22% pay raise!
December 11, 2004
Facing Deficit, M.T.A. Gave a 22% Raise to Its Director
By SEWELL CHAN The New York Times

The chairman of the Metropolitan Transportation Authority, which is seeking a fare increase and new state taxes to stanch a growing budget deficit, approved a 22 percent pay raise for the authority's executive director last year; the raise took effect last January.

The action by the chairman, Peter S. Kalikow, raised the annual salary of the authority's highest-paid officer, Katherine N. Lapp, to $235,000 from $192,500.

The pay increase was not publicly discussed, though Mr. Kalikow said there was no requirement to do so.
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liberaliraqvet26 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-21-05 08:04 AM
Response to Original message
5. Even the national union doesn't agree with local 100
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lifelong Democrat Donating Member (7 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-21-05 09:37 AM
Response to Reply #5
6. TWU's HQ is simply distancing themselves from $1 mil/day fines
They don't want to be included in the court's ruling to hit the union with penalties. Kinda takes the 'unity' out of UNION!
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SpongeBob Donating Member (105 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-21-05 09:57 AM
Response to Original message
7. No, Screw Bloomberg
The TWU was willing to settle for a 6% raise, which is not asking for much, especially considering the big surplus. Everything else "offered" by the MTA should be rejected. A new contract should be better, not worse than the old one. If you support unions wholeheartedly as you say, you should support the TWU's fight, because this is all about Bloomberg's and the Republican's agenda of trying to bust ALL of the unions, and to screw the worker as much as possible. The MTA never complained that there was not enough money, their attitude is simply "if we can get away with giving them less, why not?" Maybe some New Yorkers will start to wake up, and start voting out these rich, greedy Republicans such as Bloomberg and Pataki.
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lifelong Democrat Donating Member (7 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-21-05 11:44 AM
Response to Reply #7
8. A couple points -
The tactics employed by Bloomie are no different than those used by any of the other mayors in recent history, regardless of party affiliation.

William O'Dwyer 1946-50 Democratic
Vincent R. Impellitteri 1950-53 Democratic
Robert F. Wagner Jr. 1954-65 Democratic
John V. Lindsay 1966-73 Republican/Liberal
Abraham D. Beame 1974-77 Democratic
Edward I. Koch 1978-89 Democratic
David N. Dinkins 1990-93 Democratic
Rudolph W. Giuliani 1994-2001 Republican
Michael R. Bloomberg 2002-present Republican

Mike Bloomberg is a lifelong democrat. When he wanted to run in 2001, the Democrat line was already taken by Mark Green, so he switched parties in name only. His recent landslide victory shows that he's the best mayor that money can buy or, as you suggest, that the overwhelming majority of NYers who reelected Bloomberg just last month, are comatose or downright stupid. Probably both.

Read the NYT article about why there was a strike.

http://www.nytimes.com/2005/12/21/nyregion/nyregionspecial3/21collapse.html?hp&ex=1135227600&en=aebb5027b30744cc&ei=5094&partner=homepage

In Final Hours, M.T.A. Took Big Pension Risk
By STEVEN GREENHOUSE

On the final day of intense negotiations, the Metropolitan Transportation Authority, it turns out, greatly altered what it had called its final offer, to address many of the objections of the transit workers' union. The authority improved its earlier wage proposals, dropped its demand for concessions on health benefits and stopped calling for an increase in the retirement age, to 62 from 55.

But then, just hours before the strike deadline, the authority's chairman, Peter S. Kalikow, put forward a surprise demand that stunned the union. Seeking to rein in the authority's soaring pension costs, he asked that all new transit workers contribute 6 percent of their wages toward their pensions, up from the 2 percent that current workers pay. The union balked, and then shut down the nation's largest transit system for the first time in a quarter-century.

Yet for all the rage and bluster that followed, this war was declared over a pension proposal that would have saved the transit authority less than $20 million over the next three years.

It seemed a small figure, considering that the city says that every day of the strike will cost its businesses hundreds of millions of dollars in lost revenues. But the authority contends that it must act now to prevent a "tidal wave" of pension outlays if costs are not brought under control.

Roger Toussaint, the president of the union, Local 100 of the Transport Workers Union, said the pension proposal, made Monday night just before the 12:01 a.m. strike deadline, would effectively cut the wages of new workers by 4 percent.

"They're trying to beat down wages for our new workers," Mr. Toussaint said yesterday.

In the days immediately before the strike deadline, the union kept hammering the point that the authority's pension demands would save little over the life of a three-year contract.

Indeed, not just Mr. Toussaint but some other New Yorkers are questioning whether it was worthwhile for the authority to go to war over the issue when the authority's pension demands would apparently save less over the next three years than what the New York City Police Department will spend on extra overtime during the first two days of the strike.

"What they'd be saving on pensions is a pittance," Mr. Toussaint said.

Robert Linn, a former New York City labor commissioner, questioned the transportation authority's decision - with the backing of the mayor and governor - to go to the mat over pensions with a union that can exact huge pain on the city in a year when the authority was enjoying a $1 billion surplus.

"They might have picked a union that was more willing to consider the subject," Mr. Linn said. "It not just the considerable economic power of this union, it's also the timing," just before Christmas. "It's tremendously problematic."

Gary J. Dellaverson, the authority's director of labor relations, said he and the authority's other negotiators had tried to be flexible in making the pension offer.

"We tried to remold our position, to be reflective of their issues and still be consistent with our finances and our bargaining goals - what we considered a good faith effort to close the deal," he said.

Labor negotiations resemble high-stakes poker, and it was not until a few hours before the strike deadline that the authority 's chairman, Mr. Kalikow, showed his hand, making an offer far different from what he had previously said was his final offer.

With the transit workers' union demanding raises above inflation, Mr. Kalikow raised his wage offer so that raises would average 3.5 percent a year for three years, up from 3 percent in his previous offer. Responding to the union's demand that he not raise the retirement age, Mr. Kalikow also dropped his proposal that future transit workers not qualify for a full pension until age 62, up from 55 for current workers.

But then he put his new demand on the table, that new workers contribute 6 percent of their wages to finance their pensions - a demand that clashed with Mr. Toussaint's oft-repeated refusal to sell out the "unborn," meaning new workers.

Mr. Dellaverson declined to spell out how much that proposal would save each year. "Pension changes always have small effects at the beginning and grow over time," he said.

John J. Murphy, a pension expert and former executive director of the New York City Employees' Retirement System, said he computed that the authority's pension proposal would have a modest saving at first: $2.25 million in the first year, $4.8 million in the second year and $7.8 million in the third year.

But he said the plan would achieve significant savings, more than $160 million in the first 10 years, with some officials estimating that it would save more than $80 million a year after 20 years.

Mr. Dellaverson said it was important for the authority to try to control its pension outlays even in a year when it had a surplus. The authority's pension outlays for the transit workers have soared to $453 million this year, triple the amount in 2002.

"If you know a tidal wave is coming and you can still play around in the surf because it's not here yet, anyone would think that's foolishness," Mr. Dellaverson said.

That wave, he suggested, is a continued rise in pension costs and the authority's forecast of a $1 billion deficit in 2009.

Mr. Dellaverson said the week of negotiations at the Grand Hyatt hotel in Midtown were unusual because the union made hardly any firm counteroffers. "The longer you wait to start to address the problem," he said, "the more dramatic the changes must be to address them."

He said the union made no new offer countering the authority's pension offers. The union, he said, asked for an 8 percent raise a year, without ever specifying how many years of 8 percent raises it wanted.

He said that just before negotiations broke off on Monday, "We made another offer, even though the union had never countered our earlier offer," he said. "From a tactical standpoint, it's unusual in my little business."

Several union officials said Mr. Toussaint was often reluctant to make a new proposal - for instance, lowering a wage demand - because the clamorous dissidents in the union might seize on such a move to accuse him of selling out.

E. J. McMahon, a budgetary expert at the Manhattan Institute who favors reducing government pension costs, said there were wise and unwise aspects to the authority's focus on pensions in the bargaining.

"On one hand, the transit workers are the hardest union to bring this up with," he said. "On the other hand, this has really put a spotlight on the pension issue."

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Lone_Wolf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-21-05 12:35 PM
Response to Original message
9. INflatin in NYC is roughly 4% per year...
If the members support that contract, they'll actually be losing real money every year. The MTA's demand that new worker's pay 6% into the new pension is a union breaking tactic to create division within the union. It would pit new members against long time members.

The TWU was very smart to reject this.
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nedbal Donating Member (675 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-21-05 05:49 PM
Response to Original message
10. screw YOU


make a 2 tier workforce, Old vs New, keep cutting wages and benefits at what is miserable place to work already. Divide and conquer the workers. Have 2 sets of workers, Just like the MTA keeps 2 sets of books

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SpongeBob Donating Member (105 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-22-05 01:23 AM
Response to Reply #10
12. And Bloomberg and Pataki want the strike to continue...
That's why Bloomberg told the MTA not to negotiate until the TWU ends the strike. Can't you just FEEL his concern for the well-being of New Yorkers? Aren't we all happier now that the MTA has decided to end all talks?
Bloomberg's only concern is busting the union, and maybe appearing to be some sort of hero to New Yorkers. And now he's trying to pit New Yorkers against each other further by talking about the salaries and suggesting the TWU workers make more than anyone else.
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MadAsHellNewYorker Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-22-05 11:32 AM
Response to Original message
13. I know! Lets pull a Reagan and fire them all
:sarcasm:

I have to walk to work every day and I support the strike. The people who are responsible for my transportation and safety deserve good salaries and benefits and pensions. FUCK THE MTA.
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