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My last plea for Amendment 36

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F.Gordon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-19-04 10:42 PM
Original message
My last plea for Amendment 36
Colorado is not going to go from being a Red State to a Blue State in one election cycle.. Not every dem running for office is going to win.

This is a bizarre state. How many of you have already commented on the fact that people have bush* and Salazar signs in their yards? A poll from yesterday has Marilyn Kill the faggots!! Musgrave getting 20% of the Democrats. Yes, Democrats. How anyone called a Dem can vote for this vile demon is beyond me. But, thats Colorado.

Oh, and 1992 and 1964 were flukes. Without Perot in 92 Clinton would have not carried this state. Just look at 96 to see the correction that was made. And 64 was just Colorado voting for a favorite son. Up until the 90s Colorado was just one big suburb of Dallas. Hell, this state voted against FDR during WWII!!! This is a bizarre state.

As for all the predicted legal stuff; well, the republican lawyers are going to have a bit of a problem with something called TABOR. A legal precedent for A-36 has already been established in this state.

Im tired of my vote being thrown in the trash in this State, so this is just one of the reasons Im voting FOR this.as soon as I get my damn ballot....

For you poll watchers that are hedging on this based on how Colorado may go, this is a good link to bookmark

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/Presidential_04/co_pol...

I DO believe Kerry is going to win, but Im not so sure about Colorado going Kerry. I can't find one EC model or "poll" that would indicate that Kerry is going to take Colorado. Id rather guarantee that my work/money goes to getting Kerry at least 4 EVs.

Thats it. Ill say no more.
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liberalmuse Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-19-04 11:01 PM
Response to Original message
1. Those amendments are an atrocity.
Edited on Tue Oct-19-04 11:03 PM by liberalmuse
And what do you tell your kid, who has gay friends, when they tell you they've been ripping up or throwing away those hateful signs saying 'Vote Yes' whenever they see them? Well, I told mine she should not be doing that because people have a right to free speech. She told me, 'I really don't care. They are trying to take away basic civil rights from other human beings, some who happen to be my closest friends.'

Well hell. What do you say to that? I'd be lying if I said the anger didn't well up and I didn't think, 'BIGOT!' every time I saw one of those signs. I want to tell these people of small mind, 'Your 'traditional' marriage is as safe and sacred as it ever was and there's already a state law that defines marriage. How do you feel about taking away health insurance from kids of gay parents? How do you feel about someone suffering in the hospital who isn't allowed to have the love of their life visit?' These people make me sick. SICK.

I'm not for destroying signs, but I almost want to rip the one in my own neighborhood up (the kid did it the other day while walking the dog, apparently, and I did get after her for it, but I see it's back in the yard today). It's ugly and it's hateful. This country will not heal until people can let others be and stay the hell out of their bedrooms.
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Kanary Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-20-04 12:41 AM
Response to Original message
2. A friend filled out his absentee today, and voted YES on 36
I'm early voting soon, and will do the same.

Most of the people I know have decided that it's TIME for 36!

So, I'm with you, and we'll see what happens.

BTW, this is not an invitation for those against it to get nasty. Reasonable people can disagree, and this whole site is getting ridiculously nasty.

I'm motivated, also, motivated. :hi: It'll be interesting to see how it plays out.

Kanary
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lakercub Donating Member (509 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-20-04 01:54 PM
Response to Reply #2
4. 36
In a couple of other threads, I pointed out I was against 36. I believe my reasons for being against it were, and still are, valid. But when I got my absentee ballot, I actually found myself voting for it. I just can't imagine this state going blue. I just can't. Maybe it's because I am in El Paso county and surronded by the ultra-right wing. Maybe it's just too much pessimism. Considering that is the way I feel, I wanted Kerry to get as many EV's as possible. I hope Kerry does win this state (talk about a shot across the bow to the conservatives), but if he doesn't, I hope 36 passes.
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Kanary Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-20-04 03:28 PM
Response to Reply #4
6. Reasonable people disagree. And that's OK.
This is one of those issues I don't speak about, especially on DU, where people would rather yell at each other than attempt understanding.

I just wanted you to know you aren't alone. It's a complicated issue, and one that many of us can see boths sides to. We just do the best we can to make a choice we can live with.

It sounds like that's what you did, and that's what I'm doing, and now we just see how it plays out.

Of course, knowing what goes on here at DU, I'm sure there will be plenty who will scream at both of us if it turns out to be a less than perfect choice. :)

If it's the other way around, I wonder if we'll do the screaming...... :hi:

I do not see this as an issue for this one election only...... I see 36 as a valid choice for our state, which is whyI voted for it, and why many people I know are voting for it.

It's time.

Kanary
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Touchdown Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-20-04 08:54 AM
Response to Original message
3. I'm sorry, I can't.
Edited on Wed Oct-20-04 08:59 AM by Touchdown
This isn't the way to get rid, or even make irrelevant the EC. My reasoning goes beyond Kerry's victory. It goes to the heart of the EC, and until we get to a place that can repeal the EC, then these band-aids like this will only lull people into thinking we fixed the problem. Colorado has historically been irrelevant, politically, and I think this year, we've come of age. It's not worth it to throw away the attention the country is paying to us here, for a measly 4 votes for Kerry.

He's going to sweep the country anyway. Where's your faith?

And BTW: Half of the US immigrants here are from California, not Texas. Then we have the hispanic immigrants bolstering our numbers. 2004 may be a fluke, but what if we're witnessing a sea change in the political landscape? Over the rest of DU talk is about the tide turning twords progressive politics, and that the neo-cons have gone too far. It may take a couple of election cycles for us to see it, but I can feel the change in the air...and no, I can't explain it.

Edit, and more serious; By saying we can never win Colorado, aside from these flukes, is basically telling me that all the work I've done...canvassing black and hispanic neighborhoods, the money I've donated to take back the Legislature, marching as a vet in parades, making calls to explain the 60 cent postage on mail-in ballots, and talking up Kerry at work, is all a total waste of time. Well, thank you SO MUCH for your support!
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lakercub Donating Member (509 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-20-04 02:26 PM
Response to Reply #3
5. Relax a little
Easy now. All the canvassing and marching you've done is a good thing. No one is suggesting it isn't. It's just that this state has been so ridiculously conservative for so long that it's hard to believe it will change all at once this year. Everything you've done is good. But the real value will show up over the next few years.

I know it isn't worth much, but I sincerely appreciate the effort you seem to have put in, but many of us just can't see this state going blue yet. You are right to do what you've done, but we are right to try and be as honest with ourselves as we can be. And that honesty compels me to believe Bush will carry Colorado. That is why, after much internal struggle, I finally voted for 36.

But at least this year, the dems seem ready to fight.

I have been a registered dem since my first election in 92. But this is the first year I gave them a dime. It's too important this year for me to just cast my ballot and say "Mission Accomplished (heh heh)". But counteracting the religious right in this state is going to take some time.

Dems, and everyone else, in this country need to worry about this election more than any other. Bush is too dangerous to allow four more, largely unencumbered, years. Colorado dems should feel the same way. But there is a another aspect for Colorado dem residents. This state has been staunchly conservative for over a decade (probably a lot longer than that). Some dems have been elected, but even those had to be somewhat to the right to have any chance. But when you combine the catastrophic presidency of Bush with the work done by people like you, a dent is starting to show in the conservative armor. Colorado dems now have an opening to start winning hearts-and-minds, and we have to work harder than ever to do it.

We need to break the hold of the religious right and that will take time. Our efforts are going toward this. That's why, when you say all your work is wasted, it worries me. We can't look at the results of this election as a complete success or a complete failure. This is a part of the process in this state. We have to look at it as another step in bringing down the zealotry of James Dobson, Bill Owens, and their ilk. We need to unite the state dems, bring the minorities completely under the dem umbrella, show a tolerance for all viewpoints, and start to convince the less-radical conservatives that this state has been hijacked by ultra right-wing interests. We need to convince all that we can that these right-wing interests are not going to benefit the state or the nation. And we need to think long-term.

This election is crucial, but so is changing the mindset of the state of Colorado. Any one who can be convinced to vote Kerry in the next two weeks is wonderful. But everyone who can be convinced to broaden their minds in the next few years is equally important for the well-being of this state. That will take some work. You are doing that work. Never regret that.

God this is long, sorry :)
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intheflow Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-20-04 11:52 PM
Response to Original message
7. I voted for this today.
Everyone I know is split on this, both Dems and Reps, with the wierdest mixes coming out of who's voting on this. I think it's going to be close.
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F.Gordon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-21-04 11:14 AM
Response to Original message
8. The Zogby Colorado poll is due out on 10/24
I'll post it, and all the details on this thread after it comes out...
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F.Gordon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-24-04 08:23 PM
Response to Reply #8
9. As promised.....
Edited on Sun Oct-24-04 08:43 PM by motivated
bush* 45.4% / Kerry 49.0% / Other 2.6% / NS 3.1%

Denver Metro Region
bush* 41.1% / Kerry 55.5% / Other 1.7% / NS 1.6%

North & West Region
bush* 52.2% / Kerry 34.5% / Other 5.5% / NS 7.8%

South & East Region
bush* 49.4% / Kerry 46.9% / Other 1.8% / NS 1.9%

By Party: Democrat
bush* 8.1% / Kerry 87.0% / Other 2.1% / NS 2.8%

By Party: Republican
bush* 90.0% / Kerry 6.0% / Other 1.0% / NS 3.1%

By Party: Independent
bush* 32.8% / Kerry 60.3% / Other 3.4% / NS 3.5%

Summarizing a few other key stats....

Kerry is leading in Large and Small City totals and bush* is leading in suburbs and Rural. This is a bit confusing, since I would assume that the lead Kerry has in the "Denver Metro Region" would include suburbs. :shrug:

Kerry is leading by 3% in "Investor Class" AND by 3% in those that make more than $75,000 per year.

Gender Male:
bush* 47.1% / Kerry 47.0%

Gender Female:
bush* 43.8% / Kerry 50.8%

Much more....can't type it all in. If you want to see the ENTIRE 3.0 meg PDF file PM with your email address and I'll send it to you.

EDIT? That's what I get for trying to type all this stuff...typos galore!!
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killbotfactory Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-25-04 02:12 PM
Response to Reply #9
10. Kerry's winning?
Am I reading the poll right?
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F.Gordon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-25-04 02:48 PM
Response to Reply #10
11. According to Zogby. Yes.
Edited on Mon Oct-25-04 02:49 PM by motivated
These are a few other notes from my other post in GD2004....

In the Colorado poll Kerry is leading by HUGE double digit numbers in the 18-34 age range. Over 34 years old the edge goes to bush* in all the age groups, but by single digits. (4%-7%)

Another interesting part of the Zogby poll is the Black Vote. Other polls that show bush* in the lead in Colorado are reporting Blacks voting as high as 34% for bush*. Zogby has 100% of Black voters...voting for Kerry.

Also, the polls showing bush* leading are giving the Ind share fairly consistent with the 2000 elections. (this is the 2nd largest voting block in Colorado) Zogby has it bush*: 33% / Kerry 60%


Not sure what to make of it all. But I'm encouraged because it seems to backup my BS on my other thread "Here's the deal.."

What I find interesting is that none (that I'm aware of) of the local "news" media are reporting this poll.

Edit? Just.Can't.Type.Worth.Shit
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serryjw Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-30-04 12:51 AM
Response to Reply #11
20. Spend a lot of time on Auraria and
the college kids are Kerry 5:1!!!!!!...maybe 10% of whom I talk to are NOT voting!! They are having ANOTHER big 'get out and vote' bash on Monday!
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F.Gordon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-25-04 08:49 PM
Response to Reply #8
14. Zogby: 10/25/2004
About a 3% change in favor of the Lord of Darkness today. Dont expect our local news media to report it because it still favors Kerry. Biggest change from yesterday is the Independent voter percentages, but the numbers still look very good for Kerry. Also, an odd flip-flop in men/women voters. Now more men favor Kerry and more women favor bush*. :crazy:

bush* 47.4% / Kerry 48.0% / Other 1.6% / NS 3.0%

Denver Metro Region
bush* 43.1% / Kerry 53.0% / Other 1.5% / NS 2.4%

North & West Region
bush* 53.3% / Kerry 40.0% / Other 2.7% / NS 4.0%

South & East Region
bush* 51.7% / Kerry 44.1% / Other .8% / NS 3.4%

By Party: Democrat
bush* 9.8% / Kerry 86.7% / Other 1.8% / NS 1.7%

By Party: Republican
bush* 90.6% / Kerry 6.4% / Other .7% / NS 2.3%

By Party: Independent
bush* 37.0% / Kerry 55.0% / Other 2.4% / NS 5.5%

Gender Male:
bush* 46.3% / Kerry 49.6%

Gender Female:
bush* 48.4% / Kerry 46.5%

Kerry is leading by 1% in "Investor Class" (2 point drop from yesterday) AND by 5% in those that make more than $75,000 per year (2 point increase from yesterday) Kerry also still has a very strong lead in the 18-34 age group.

Top Issue for voters is Jobs/Economy at 28.0%. War in Iraq and Woor on Tar are tied for 2nd at 18.1%. Health Care is 3rd at 11.3%

Oh, and Salazar looks like a LOCK. :party: He is leading 50.3% to 43.9% over the guy who isn't a politician but wants to be one when he grows up.
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killbotfactory Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-26-04 03:17 PM
Response to Reply #14
16. That's great!
I thought this state was going to go Bush for sure. Now it looks like it's in play.
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Kanary Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-25-04 07:46 PM
Response to Original message
12. Voted for #36 today. Was glad to have a call from LWV urging FOR it!
I've always respected The League of Women Voters, and will call their office tomorrow to thank them for their phone calls in support of #36.

The voting location at King Soopers had a very long line, so I'm hoping that is really good news!

Kanary
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El Supremo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-25-04 07:47 PM
Response to Original message
13. Resubmit the amendment in 2006 and maybe I'll vote for it.
There ain't no way that I would want this election to be held up by the courts again. Just 'cause some Californian got enough people in the "highest" state to sign a petition. We could be the next Florida.

Kerry CAN win Colorado! I've been working to make it so.
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F.Gordon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-25-04 09:01 PM
Response to Reply #13
15. Fair enough
I've already voted for it, but if it makes you feel any better Mrs. Motivated voted against it. :-(
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Hippo_Tron Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-26-04 08:34 PM
Response to Original message
17. My thoughts on the Ammendment
Granted I don't live in Colorado so my opinion on this subject doesn't matter so much. I kind of agree with those who are against the ammendment, in that Colorado is the only state doing it. I do agree with split electors, but I think that multiple states should do it at the same time. For example, how fair would it be if California split its electors but Texas didn't? On the flip side, it is up to the people of Colorado to decide in the end and their decission should be law. And frankly with all of the dirty tricks that the Repukes have pulled, if Kerry wins the election with those 4 EV's (which are legitimate), I won't be feeling too bad for the Republicans.
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Kanary Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-27-04 12:43 AM
Response to Reply #17
18. Colorado isn't alone. Maine and Nebraska led this.
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paulk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-27-04 10:32 AM
Response to Reply #18
19. delete
Edited on Wed Oct-27-04 10:39 AM by paulk
.
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